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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader

USA
3750 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2010 :  03:55:37  Show Profile Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"....We all fall down!" Maybe she caught the (Spell)Plague?!

The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.

"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491

"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs

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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2010 :  03:58:13  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Interesting possibility. But wouldn't that discredit Shar and Cyric's efforts?

Every beginning has an end.
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althen artren
Senior Scribe

USA
780 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2010 :  07:56:19  Show Profile Send althen artren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Does anybody know if Karsus spell used exclusively the shadow Weave?
Maybe his spell used only it and inadvertantly caused the split between
the two? Giving Mystryl enough time to shut off the power (secondary power breaker)
and remake herself?

Do we know if the Weave was whole or split (Weave/Shadow) before Karsus's folly?
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7981 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2010 :  08:35:42  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm personally fairly confident that no Shadow Weave was involved at all; it was a pure Weave spell. The main reason I say this is that Netheril describes the arcanist who discovered and first experimented with shadow magics (not long before the fall of Netheril) and established a small school to train shadowmages (which didn't train many, since shadow magic was viewed as an esoteric curiosity by "proper" arcanists) ... but the details of Karsus's life and magical training are fairly complete and certainly never mention him having anything to do with this shadowmage or his school or learning or casting or researching or even having any interest in shadow magic (it is possible, though the context of the writing suggests to me something of that sort would be explicitly mentioned). He was a master of Weave magics and seized the Weave itself from the goddess Mystryl (who, incidentally, never controlled what later became known as Shar's Shadow Weave).

In fact, I believe this first shadowmage, the arcanist unoriginally named Lord Shadow (or perhaps Telamont Tanthul?), transferred his floating city of Thultanthar to the Plane of Shadow (at least a day before Karsus cast his Avatar spell); this city returned to the Realms in 1372DR, bringing the Shadovar and Shadow Weave with it. Note that Mystra, the Weave, and even what's left of Karsus were apparently largely unaffected by the reintroduction of the Shadow Weave. (Some of the details about Shade are described in this scroll from Alaundo's library.)

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 08 Dec 2010 08:45:32
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2010 :  19:56:08  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arik

In fact, I believe this first shadowmage, the arcanist unoriginally named Lord Shadow (or perhaps Telamont Tanthul?), transferred his floating city of Thultanthar to the Plane of Shadow...



Yes, Telamont Tanthul is Lord Shadow. He revealed that before he issued the command to exterminate the Zhents.

Every beginning has an end.
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7981 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2010 :  21:52:48  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ooh ... I didn't know it was tacitly stated in canon. I'd always thought it was deliberately left unsaid.

Question - Thanthul, and every other mage in Thultanthar, clearly started off as Netherese arcanists. Did they adopt Shar's Shadow Weave immediately or continue to function as arcanists for some times (years? centuries?) in the Plane of Shadow? Did the collapse of Mystryl's Weave reach into this plane?

[/Ayrik]
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Tamsar
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
141 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2010 :  15:44:35  Show Profile Send Tamsar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Greatest Spell in the realms? It's easy and your all wrong. It's Charm Person, cast on me by the 1st edition Grey Box. You've all been hit by and failed your saving throws vs spells. It might not have been the grey box, but it was an FR product of some sort, else why are you all still here :D

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 26 Dec 2010 :  08:34:32  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arik

Question - Thanthul, and every other mage in Thultanthar, clearly started off as Netherese arcanists. Did they adopt Shar's Shadow Weave immediately or continue to function as arcanists for some times (years? centuries?) in the Plane of Shadow? Did the collapse of Mystryl's Weave reach into this plane?



I think it was gradual. A decade at least. Not all arcanists are sorcerers, like Galaeron, who could grasp the intricacies of SW spell-casting.

Every beginning has an end.
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Sandro
Learned Scribe

New Zealand
266 Posts

Posted - 26 Dec 2010 :  08:44:09  Show Profile Send Sandro a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tamsar

The Greatest Spell in the realms? It's easy and your all wrong. It's Charm Person, cast on me by the 1st edition Grey Box. You've all been hit by and failed your saving throws vs spells. It might not have been the grey box, but it was an FR product of some sort, else why are you all still here :D


Fellas, I think we have a winner.

"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..."
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 27 Dec 2010 :  06:45:45  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Has the spell that blocks (for a certain span of time) all portals in existence already been devised? (Maybe by Larloch himself?)

Every beginning has an end.
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AdamBridger
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
118 Posts

Posted - 13 Aug 2011 :  16:53:32  Show Profile Send AdamBridger a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Possible Spoilers

For me the greatest spell has got to be the one cast at the end of Steven E. Schend's Blackstaff.

The spell was about 1000 years in the making, featured numerous blackstaffs and hundreds of magical items, hundreds of spellcasters, some of the greatest mages in the Realms including Elminster and the high mages of Myth Drannor and it consumed Khelben Blackstaff in its casting.

The effects of the spell restored the city of Rhymanthiin and safely disposed of the Killing Storms.

How can that not be Faerun's Greatest Spell?
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 14 Aug 2011 :  14:49:15  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

It's a great one, but I wouldn't call it the greatest. The Imaski Godswall didn't only encompass a city, but the entire empire. And the effects of Karsus's Avatar didn't only bring down a city, but a whole civilization...

Every beginning has an end.
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phranctoast
Learned Scribe

USA
151 Posts

Posted - 18 Aug 2011 :  14:18:36  Show Profile Send phranctoast a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My vote goes to Q'arlynd Melarn and the high magic that made all the followers of Kiaransalee forget her existence and then killed her. Killing a god with a spell is pretty bad ass.

Currently reading: Spider and Stone by Jaleigh Johnson: Sequel to Mistshore
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore

India
1591 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2012 :  11:22:41  Show Profile Send Thauranil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by phranctoast

My vote goes to Q'arlynd Melarn and the high magic that made all the followers of Kiaransalee forget her existence and then killed her. Killing a god with a spell is pretty bad ass.


That was pretty cool but i have to vote for the dark disaster as its the most kickass spell of all time.
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe

USA
575 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2012 :  12:11:56  Show Profile Send WalkerNinja a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Voted Other:

"In ancient days, sorcerers sought to learn the One True Spell that would give them power over all the world and understanding of all magic. Some said they'd found it, but such men were usually dismissed as crazed.
I saw one of these 'crazed' mages myself. He could ignore spells cast at him as if they did not exist, or work any magic himself by silent thought alone. I did not think he was mad - but a peace, driven by urges and vices no longer. He told me the One True Spell was a woman, that her name was Mystra - and that her kisses were wonderful."

Halivon Tharnstar, Avowed of Mystra
"Tales Told To A Blind Wizard"
Year of the Wyvern

*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2012 :  14:09:46  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

So Mystra is the spell and her Chosen and all her faithful are the spell components...That's another way of looking at things. But it doesn't change the fact that that same spell (Mystryl) fell victim to a mortal's own spell (Karsus's Avatar).

Every beginning has an end.
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Marc
Senior Scribe

657 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2012 :  14:12:28  Show Profile Send Marc a Private Message  Reply with Quote
She has a living spell template?

.
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1093 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2012 :  15:12:44  Show Profile Send Nicolai Withander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just thought of one, but doea it have to be cast by mortals?
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe

USA
495 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2012 :  15:18:04  Show Profile Send Old Man Harpell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A spell presented to Elminster, Mordenkainen, and Dalamar by the Simbul named Alamanthar's Return (in 'Mages Three').

In effect: See spell, cast spell. See Wish being cast, you can cast it yourself. Or theoretically, any spell whatsoever, including High Magic.

- OMH
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36787 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2012 :  18:18:22  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell

A spell presented to Elminster, Mordenkainen, and Dalamar by the Simbul named Alamanthar's Return (in 'Mages Three').

In effect: See spell, cast spell. See Wish being cast, you can cast it yourself. Or theoretically, any spell whatsoever, including High Magic.

- OMH



I believe it was also detailed in The Seven Sisters.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2012 :  00:20:26  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell

A spell presented to Elminster, Mordenkainen, and Dalamar by the Simbul named Alamanthar's Return (in 'Mages Three').

In effect: See spell, cast spell. See Wish being cast, you can cast it yourself. Or theoretically, any spell whatsoever, including High Magic.

- OMH



I believe it was also detailed in The Seven Sisters.

It is indeed.

I've always wanted to know more about Alamanther of Aglarond. His once-consort-relationship with the Simbul would be interesting enough, but I'm also curious about his history of nasty-spellturning development.

This might be one for Ed, I think.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2012 :  00:22:16  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would hazard to guess, given his region of origin, that his magic was hand-tailored to battle other Mages.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2012 :  00:28:20  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And that's an intriguing aspect for me. I'm sure Ed would've likely tinkered with that basis for Alamanther's spell development.

After all, the Red Wizards would've made the perfect "test subjects" for his research.

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jordanz
Senior Scribe

556 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2012 :  04:23:14  Show Profile  Visit jordanz's Homepage Send jordanz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Sundering: Hundreds of High Magi gathered in the heartland of Faerūn at the Gathering Place. Ignoring the lesson learned from the destruction of Tintageer centuries earlier, the High Magi cast a spell designed to create a glorious elven homeland. As the Day of Birthing dawned, the spell reached its apex. Faerūn, the one land, is sundered apart by the unbridled force of the spell. As a result, hundred of cities are washed away, thousands of elves lie dead, and the face of Abeir-Toril is changed forever. The name Faerūn, no longer the one land, was given to the largest continent. Evermeet, Island of Elves, is created. The Tree of Souls is given to the elves.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36787 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2012 :  04:25:14  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

And that's an intriguing aspect for me. I'm sure Ed would've likely tinkered with that basis for Alamanther's spell development.

After all, the Red Wizards would've made the perfect "test subjects" for his research.



Of course, after his reputation spread, such field testing would be more difficult...

"Come on, please cast another spell at me! I might not have any more Returns left..."

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TBeholder
Great Reader

2407 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2012 :  05:43:36  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eol

Which of the following spells do you think is the greatest successful spell ever cast? (Karsusļæ½s avatar is not in the list because it was an spectacular failure )
Hard to say, and not because they all were too good.
What passed fine on the spell side, didn't work out well the way it was used.
  • Waymeet: useful, but much the same (access to Prime and Inner planes only) could be done via demiplane with customized properties (built-in Gate/Worldwalk, etc), and mortal wizards without High Magic created these again and again.

  • Dragon Rage Mythal: great; but managed to suck on the safety part so much it gone even beyond its "normal" functionality... and eventually was hijacked, after all.
  • Imaskar wards: great on the magic side; but as a solution - in the end, Imaskar ended off the map just like Netheril.
  • Sundering: was fixed by divine intervention. I.e. casters did "succeed" due to being bailed out by Seldarine, on their own they would have a failure, so much more embarassing after the catastrophic part of the results.
  • Dark Disaster: one big boom, done for... no better considerations than an imperial hissyfit?
  • Mythallars: great, except the part with magical creatures looking like horses at a fire, and for a reason. Weave depletion also translates into inefficiency: by all accounts, spellfield didn't simply recharge the reserve, but buzzed at full power no matter its load. If not Phaerimm, either someone else would start the stink, or they eventually would undermine themselves. I.e. were pulling Netheril toward an internal resource deficite war.
Put together, it looks like there's a common theme.
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

-Karsus' Avatar a spectacular failure...? Wow...Just wow...
A successfull casting ending in an immediate catastrophic failure due to its unavoidable consequences. I.e. the crown of all the abysmal stuff above.
quote:
Originally posted by phranctoast

My vote goes to Q'arlynd Melarn and the high magic that made all the followers of Kiaransalee forget her existence and then killed her. Killing a god with a spell is pretty bad ass.
Dunno, i doubt it falls within the acceptable unspoken guidelines.
Forgetfulness for a specific fact, limited to one world and with limitations such as dead magic and resistance is okay - it's not unlike Dracorage. But was Kiaransalee just a local phenomenon? And no way this should extend to the domain (where the deity's will is almost a law of nature) and the power reserve, however meager, there. So a reasonable variant would cause a major setback at most, unless someone used this opening to simply go in and behead her. After all, she didn't forget where to apply - one night of frantic vision sendings, and a fair chunk of the lost power is restored.
If it could be done just like this, why every other High Mage didn't try to boo away some or other god he doesn't like? They certainly would like to - and old ones had so much more of personal experience with High Magic use than some guy who picked up his lore in ruins.
That is, smells like complete godmodding, reaching far beyond even what traditional justified godmodding does. Aaand, what this bulette does in a thri-kreen village, again?..

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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2012 :  14:28:50  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

If it's not just Faerun's, but simply the Greatest Spell, maybe it's the Shadowstorm cast upon Ephyras. It completely devoured the whole world, leaving nothing but a great void.

Every beginning has an end.
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3131 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2012 :  21:49:53  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Clearly the greatest spell in the history of D&D is Affect Normal Fires. I can't tell you how many times that saved my hide.

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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2012 :  16:23:33  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Telamont's Shadow Weave Replica. To be revealed soon.

Every beginning has an end.
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