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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36874 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Jul 2008 : 03:26:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Ladejarl
quote:
Originally posted by Lirdolin
The Cowled Wizards - legal, mercenary wizards of Amn
I wonder what the explanation for this will be? This whole plague
thingy would not have made me any more positive to magic, or it's users.
That's actually a continuation of previous lore. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 05 Jul 2008 03:27:06 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2008 : 20:08:40
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Actually, RB DID indeed confirm it, in 'not so many words'.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Perhaps not. But many will see it as oddly coincidental that preview articles stopped being posted after all the uproar, but other articles continue to come out on a regular basis.
My point exactly - the latest bit of Realmslore is couched in a 'preview' article about Amn, and is not one of the 'Coutdown' articles.
Rich Baker has made a comment, which I would like to quote, but can't for two reasons - I can't get onto the WotC boards ATM, AND he has asked (very politely) NOT to be quoted on other sites, and I respect that request. The bottom line was that he said that there was a definate pattern planned out for the Countdown articles, but that plan "didn't work out". That indicates to me a change made mid-stream, most likely because of the negative feedback.
But I could be mistaken.
Anyhow, the Amn article had some juicy tidbits in it, and I found a couple more useble entries from Brian's articles as well. Add to that the 4e books have come out, which provides a little more info (FR IS getting the core cosmology, if not the deities), and I should have another update for this thread soon. 
quote:
Originally posted by Fillow
I also saw in Swordmage that there still were Luthic priests in 1479 DR. So, I think we might add Luthic, the Cave Mother, to the surviving deities.
Don't you ?
However, 4e is going to be rolling a few deities into others, and just because Luthic's church has survived into the 4th edition doesn't neccessarily mean the goddess herself will make it intact.
I will make a note of the surviving worship of her, though - Thanks. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Jul 2008 20:11:30 |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2008 : 21:06:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
However, 4e is going to be rolling a few deities into others, and just because Luthic's church has survived into the 4th edition doesn't neccessarily mean the goddess herself will make it intact.
This is right. The Lord of the Northwind, for example, seems to become a god of paladins for all races, so that it is not even clear if his being a dragon is only a picture and not a statement about his true being. That would be a major change in regard to this deity. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links 2ed Downloads |
Edited by - Ayunken-vanzan on 05 Jul 2008 21:06:50 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2008 : 21:30:46
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Not to rub salt into any wounds (despite my usually doing that), but you just reminded me of something. Someone awhile back on the WotC boards recommended the Scarredlands setting to me, and I was able to borrow the main book off of someone a few days ago.
Reading it was like reading the 4e core cosmology - it basically says the SAME EXACT things, but using different text.
Not sure if that is pure coincidence (it happens sometimes in game design), or if someone liked that take on the gods.
The reason why Ayunken's post reminded me of this is because toward the end of that section (the cosmology/gods stuff, which is a major portion of the book) is because they go out of their way to mention that even though some gods are known as 'Draconic' or 'Fey' or Dwarven', etc... all of the gods are really cosmic (sexless) beings that can take any form they want, and therefore it is just the personal preferences of certain races to represent their 'chosen god' so. Deities DON'T have a race - their followers do... and everything 'physical' about them is 'made-up' by those followers.
Interestingly, I think this is the way 4e handles the Gods as well (like Gond being rolled into Moradin), and we will see a lot of this 'Pantheonic blending' taking place to help the 'downsizing' of Faerūn's divine.
And for a 3e (and earlier) canon reasoning for that - the Adama has always treated EVERY deity as part of a single pantheon - and that different gods have been using aliases since the very beginning. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Jul 2008 21:31:24 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2008 : 21:52:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Rich Baker has made a comment, which I would like to quote, but can't for two reasons - I can't get onto the WotC boards ATM, AND he has asked (very politely) NOT to be quoted on other sites, and I respect that request. The bottom line was that he said that there was a definate pattern planned out for the Countdown articles, but that plan "didn't work out". That indicates to me a change made mid-stream, most likely because of the negative feedback.
But I could be mistaken.
Well, look at it this way--negative feedback hasn't always stopped WotC before. It certainly hasn't made WotC rethink the Spellplague. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Lirdolin
Learned Scribe
Germany
198 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2008 : 21:08:21
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Rich Baker wrote in post #4475 of the "Ask the Realms..." Thread on WotC:
Evermeet still exists; our new take on the cosmology finally allows us to complete the Sundering. I can't say more than that now.
Lantan suffered grievously in the Spellplague. If you care to place warforged in the Realms (*IF*, and only because they're in the Monster Manual, not because we're Eberron-ifying the Realms, so don't even start on that!), I'd speculate that Lantan's one of the places they might be from. If.
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Lirdolin
Learned Scribe
Germany
198 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2008 : 18:52:48
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Richbaker wrote in the "Ask the Realms..." thread, post #4692:
Dambrath fares better than most of the other countries in southern Faerun. More than that I can't really say; can't give out too many spoilers before their time! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36874 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2008 : 20:27:30
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| Lirdolin, you may wish to paraphrase further replies from Rich. He's asked that he not be quoted on other message boards. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Lirdolin
Learned Scribe
Germany
198 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2008 : 20:45:05
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| Ok. Than I'll try to just give the facts next time, without quoting him. Just thought that it would be easier to locate this way. Sorry. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36874 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2008 : 21:23:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Lirdolin
Ok. Than I'll try to just give the facts next time, without quoting him. Just thought that it would be easier to locate this way. Sorry.
No worries. I'm just trying to make sure his request is honored.
I think his request was only about quoting, so linking back to the original post should be fine, or providing a time, date, and page of the thread.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2008 : 18:15:06
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Okay, I haven't updated this in a REALLY long time, but I'm going to work on it today - there has been a least three new articles, and I found some old bits I overlooked since my last update.
Just a heads up - I was talking about my suspicions about Calim & Memnon escaping in 4e, given some little bit about Memnon's cult at the end of the GHotR, put together with what appears to be a forest in the (former?) desert of Calimshan on that new Chult map.
My suspicions were confirmed by someone in the LFR, who said most of Calimshan is now under Memnon's rule.
I guess we know where the Fire Genasi live now.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2008 : 19:47:43
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| That LFR quote isn't entirely accurate Mark. It's not entirely false either. You'll know what I mean when you see the FRCG. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Duneth Despana
Learned Scribe
Belgium
273 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2009 : 14:04:44
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First of all, Markustay, thank you for your efforts on this thread.
I'd be really interested to know where you got the info about the Shadar-Kai being a fey race in 4e as in FRCG it states that the Shadar-Kai only started to appear as a special Shade subrace after the spellplague (p.262) and thus are to be considered human/planar.
But elsewhere (p.164) it states that the Shadar-Kai started to appear after the return of the city of Shade (DR 1372) wich I personally think is a mistype and should have been Shadovar.
In any case that "lore" clashes with the already existing FR-lore from "City of Wyrmshadows" wich presents us with an already established population of Shadar-Kai in Chaulssin in 1372 DR.
Personally as a 3.x and 2e nostalgic and a 4e facepalmer I liked the idea of the Shadar-Kai being an elf population, kind of like the star elves, seeking to Retreat interplanarly but simply choosing the wrong destination and thus precipitating their horrible fate. I loved the fey Shadar-Kai and think that we haven't had enough FR-lore on them in 3e (If any of you know of any I have missed, do not hesitate to let me know).
Oh, yes and the God-hating Kir-Lanan are now docile Shar :facepalmemote: worshippers.
So as much as I thank you for your efforts I fear that they may be pointless as the 4e inconsistencies are just too numerous.
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« There is no overriding « epic » in the Realms, but rather a large number of stories, adventures, and encounters going on all the time. [...]. Each creative mind adds to the base, creating, defining, and making their contribution to the rich diversity of the Realms. [...]. But Ed built the stage upon which all the plays are presented. Thanks Ed. » -FR Comic no.1
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3247 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2009 : 17:24:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Duneth Despana
First of all, Markustay, thank you for your efforts on this thread.
I'd be really interested to know where you got the info about the Shadar-Kai being a fey race in 4e as in FRCG it states that the Shadar-Kai only started to appear as a special Shade subrace after the spellplague (p.262) and thus are to be considered human/planar.
But elsewhere (p.164) it states that the Shadar-Kai started to appear after the return of the city of Shade (DR 1372) wich I personally think is a mistype and should have been Shadovar.
In any case that "lore" clashes with the already existing FR-lore from "City of Wyrmshadows" wich presents us with an already established population of Shadar-Kai in Chaulssin in 1372 DR.
Personally as a 3.x and 2e nostalgic and a 4e facepalmer I liked the idea of the Shadar-Kai being an elf population, kind of like the star elves, seeking to Retreat interplanarly but simply choosing the wrong destination and thus precipitating their horrible fate. I loved the fey Shadar-Kai and think that we haven't had enough FR-lore on them in 3e (If any of you know of any I have missed, do not hesitate to let me know).
Oh, yes and the God-hating Kir-Lanan are now docile Shar :facepalmemote: worshippers.
So as much as I thank you for your efforts I fear that they may be pointless as the 4e inconsistencies are just too numerous.
Shadar-kai were first introduced in the 3E Fiend Folio. I think the first mention of them 'officially' in Faerūn was in Cormyr: The Tearing of the Weave* when the party comes across them. Most of the Shadovar/Shade 'shadelings' were Krinth, an enslaved race of humans that had changed after being exposed to large amount of shadow magics.
Of course, this was all before 4th Edition and the Spell Plague.
* which, by the way, showed the Shadar-kai as being beholden to Shar, not the Shades of Shadovar. Of course, since Shadovar is a Shar-state, means that the Princes could boss them around. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Duneth Despana
Learned Scribe
Belgium
273 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2009 : 16:12:46
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| Thank you. Is their (the Shadar-Kai's) FR-background further detailed in C:TotW, or are they just encountered without further explanation? |
« There is no overriding « epic » in the Realms, but rather a large number of stories, adventures, and encounters going on all the time. [...]. Each creative mind adds to the base, creating, defining, and making their contribution to the rich diversity of the Realms. [...]. But Ed built the stage upon which all the plays are presented. Thanks Ed. » -FR Comic no.1
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3247 Posts |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2009 : 17:04:43
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| We should probably start a new scroll, but more information relating to the Shadar-Kai in the Realms is forthcoming. Specifically, Jaleigh Johnson has a novel coming out centered around a Shadar-Kai. It's called Unbroken Chain and is due out next summer. I am writing up an article for Dungeon on Ikemmu, a mysterious city that is now controlled by the Shadar-Kai. I hope to add more information on their existance (etc...). |
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Duneth Despana
Learned Scribe
Belgium
273 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2009 : 21:00:26
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@ Matt James: Would that be the fey 3e Shadar-Kai you and Jaleigh are writing about or the shadeborn 4e SK? If it is the first of the two I am an assured buyer.
@ Ashe : Thank you. I am off to find it! |
« There is no overriding « epic » in the Realms, but rather a large number of stories, adventures, and encounters going on all the time. [...]. Each creative mind adds to the base, creating, defining, and making their contribution to the rich diversity of the Realms. [...]. But Ed built the stage upon which all the plays are presented. Thanks Ed. » -FR Comic no.1
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2009 : 23:07:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
We should probably start a new scroll, but more information relating to the Shadar-Kai in the Realms is forthcoming. Specifically, Jaleigh Johnson has a novel coming out centered around a Shadar-Kai. It's called Unbroken Chain and is due out next summer. I am writing up an article for Dungeon on Ikemmu, a mysterious city that is now controlled by the Shadar-Kai. I hope to add more information on their existance (etc...).
Good to know. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2009 : 01:50:48
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| Shadar-Kai began to appear spontaneously in the generation following the Shades return to Faerūn. They are more connected to Shadow than the Feywild and can trace their lineage to the Netherese. Considering we are authors and game designers for the current edition, it would be safe to assume we will follow the presented canon found in the FRCG. |
Edited by - Matt James on 06 Dec 2009 01:51:27 |
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Duneth Despana
Learned Scribe
Belgium
273 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2009 : 16:25:54
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@ Matt James:
I thought so... as I said further up this scroll I believe the "lore" you are referring to is a typing mistake. In the passage:
"Most of the Shadovar are still human. However, all have been touched by generations of living in the Shadowfell, and SHADAR-KAI began to appear spontaneously in the generation following Shades return (eg. 1372 DR)to Faerūn." p. 164
I'm sure that SHADAR-KAI should actually have been "Shades" as this is what previous lore says.
Furthermore on page 261 it states specifically about the Shadar-Kai:
"The Spellplague (e.g 1385, as in: from that year on, they start to give birth and transform into Shadar-Kai) and its reshaping of the cosmos had a strange effect on some Netherese. Their acclimation to centuries in Shadow caused them to transform into or give birth to shadelike beings. Prince Rivalen declared this to be a miracle sent by Shar. He dubbed the changed people shadar-kai, which has become the common term for the race. " P.261
You must see that there is a contradiction between the two passages (in the same book!). And it would be a pity to write a series of books and articles about an editing mistake.
Thank you for your consideration in advance.
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« There is no overriding « epic » in the Realms, but rather a large number of stories, adventures, and encounters going on all the time. [...]. Each creative mind adds to the base, creating, defining, and making their contribution to the rich diversity of the Realms. [...]. But Ed built the stage upon which all the plays are presented. Thanks Ed. » -FR Comic no.1
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Edited by - Duneth Despana on 07 Dec 2009 16:28:59 |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2009 : 19:57:23
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| Good catch. I will see what I can find out. |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2009 : 19:57:55
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| Edit: double-post |
Edited by - Matt James on 07 Dec 2009 19:58:39 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3247 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2009 : 21:42:58
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Interesting. More retcon.
The people of Shade were still humans when they returned from the Shadow Plane in 1372. They had 'relations' with shadow demons over their time in the demiplane, which resulted in the Krinth, but the Shadar-Kai were a separate race altogether.
From my memory of the CSA adventure trilogy, the Shadar-Kai were a race that found their souls tied to the Shadow Plane, forcing them to strike a deal Shar to serve her since they cannot survive indefinitely in a world of light. An interesting magic item from Cormyr is that they wear gal-ralan, an upper arm bracer that they affix to their arm by piercing a long needle through their arm and the bracer. This gives them resistance bonuses to saves like a cloak of resistance, but causes 1 point of Wisdom damage as long as it is worn. The gal-ralan are said to keep their souls from escaping their bodies while they are away from the plane of Shadow. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Duneth Despana
Learned Scribe
Belgium
273 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2009 : 18:56:30
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@Matt James: Thank you a whole lot. I do admire the fact that you take these scrolls into consideration. I admit I'd rather just tell all you authors and game designers how awesome you and your work are but as it is not always the case it is good to have some of you listen to us when we get frustrated. Thank you.
:waiting impatiently to see where this leads, about the Shadar-Kai: |
« There is no overriding « epic » in the Realms, but rather a large number of stories, adventures, and encounters going on all the time. [...]. Each creative mind adds to the base, creating, defining, and making their contribution to the rich diversity of the Realms. [...]. But Ed built the stage upon which all the plays are presented. Thanks Ed. » -FR Comic no.1
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Duneth Despana
Learned Scribe
Belgium
273 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2009 : 19:02:27
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@ Ashe: Thank you for all your efforts on the topic. As I neither have the C:TotW adventure or an OCR-pdf of it I'm having a little trouble scrolling through the pdf version and finding the passages talking about Shadar-Kai, but I found the letter referring to the deal with Shar the Shadar-Kai made. What I find really interesting is the mention of elven ruins as extensive as Myth Drannor in the Vast Swamp(p.151), and I like to think that is where the Shadar-Kai lived when they where once an elven population (why else would they have Elven as an "innate language"), before they fled to the Shadowplane.
What is the CSA adventure trilogy?
@Moderators: As I have let this conversation drift off this scroll's topic, I would not take any offence if you felt it necessary to move the Shadar-Kai paranthesis to a new scroll even if the Shadar-Kai's 4e status is not quite done being accounted for in this scroll. |
« There is no overriding « epic » in the Realms, but rather a large number of stories, adventures, and encounters going on all the time. [...]. Each creative mind adds to the base, creating, defining, and making their contribution to the rich diversity of the Realms. [...]. But Ed built the stage upon which all the plays are presented. Thanks Ed. » -FR Comic no.1
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3247 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2009 : 19:42:44
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That's about all there is in the Cormyr book, just that letter detailing their relationship with the Sharrans. The 3E Fiend Folio describes how they are tied to the Shadow Plane:
quote:
From Fiend Folio, page 150
The shadar-kai, or shadow fey, are a race of bitter, determined folk whose souls are poisoned by shadow. Grayskinned and dark-eyed, the slender shadar-kai stand slightly taller than average humans, and their soft movements exude grace and uncanny stealth. Shadow follows the shadar-kai wherever they go. Shadows cast by the folds of their clothing seem deeper than those on humanoids, and a shadar-kai can seemingly fade out of sight by simply stepping into any common shadow.
The shadar-kai prefer light weapons suited for grace and agility, especially spiked chains. Many shadar-kai favor a variety of piercings and tattoos.
Long ago, the shadar-kai thought to preserve the world from the rising humanoid races. Skilled in shadow magic, the shadar-kai made a pact with a dark power of the Plane of Shadow to cast the world into an endless twilight in which the shadow fey would rule supreme. But the experiment went awry, and the shadar-kai were left bound to the Plane of Shadow, cursed to lose their souls in its dark depths. This shadow curse affects shadar-kai to this day, and every member of the race is engaged in a lifelong struggle to stave off inevitable doom.
The continuous pull of the Plane of Shadow has left the shadar-kai grim and embattled. Few races understand the plight of the shadow fey. Even the temporary solutions the shadar-kai have found leave them struggling with constant pain, making them vicious. Their willingness to commit acts of cruelty and violence has increased with each generation.
The CSA Adventure Trilogy is Cormyr: The Tearing of the Weave, Shadowdale: The Scouring of the Land, and Anauroch: The Empire of Shade. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
Edited by - Ashe Ravenheart on 12 Dec 2009 19:43:40 |
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4e FR FAQ
