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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Feb 2008 : 19:01:32
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Well met all,
I have a question regarding the Red Knight. When was she made a power? The GHoTR suggests on the sidebar on pg 143 that she was raised by Tempus after the ToT, due to her actions in Tethyr during the ToT. However the in Powers and Pantheons on pg 44, it says that "only since the Time of Troubles has a small priesthood distinct from the Foehammer arisen in her name" suggesting that she was already a power before then.
As always, I appreciate the feedback. Thanks.
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If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2008 : 00:05:50
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According to 3rd Ed. Faith and Pantheons, she was elevated to divinity by Tempus as a natural counterpart to Garagos. As to when that happens nothing is stated though. According to the discription text in Powers and Panthoens however, the Red Knight must ahve been present before the ToT as she possessed Lady Kaitlin Tindall Bloodhawk during the ToT. Through her heroic actions with her vassel body in that fateful time she gained more attention of followers and worshippers across Faerun though.
Hope that helps a bit.
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"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2008 : 00:16:26
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As in most cases, I find that the best tactic is to take all information as "correct," and find the most workable solution that includes all possible sources and explanations.
In this case, I understand things as the Red Knight having existed as a servitor of Tempus (a quasi-deity, hero figure, or some other not-quite-god) prior to the Time of Troubles. Her possession of the hero Kaitlin allowed her to grow in influence and exposure, such that after the gods were restored, Tempus was able and willing to elevate the Red Knight to full godhood.
Other explanations might work for other folks, but I'm not that troubled by the lack of a concrete date of ascension for the Red Knight. As with most deities, it's not as important when changes occur with the gods as it is why. |
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2008 : 01:12:32
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I appreciate the answers gentlemen, thank you. The reason this came up is that I just noted that the Icewind Dale II computer game is set in 1312 DR and you run into a priest of the Red Knight in it. Not a big deal, and it's only a computer game so I shouldn't expect too much. The date just set a flag off in my head, because I was under the impression that the Red Knight diety was created due to heroism during the ToT and that 1312 would be too early for her clergy to be wandering about. I guess that regardless of her existing as a diety at that time or not, it's not likely that she would have had her own priests seperate from Tempus anyway at that time.
Once again I thank you for your answers and your time. If anyone else has anything more definite or another opinion, please feel free to comment. |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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SiCK_Boy
Acolyte
Canada
40 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2008 : 13:32:42
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| Strickly speaking in game mechanic terms, the Red Knight probably had a Divine Rank of 0 before the Time of Trouble (DR 0 is the equivalent of a demi-god), and got that rank boosted afterward as a reward for her actions. |
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Kalach-Cha
Acolyte
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 02:29:51
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| A related question: is there any official word on where Tempus' avatar wound up during the Godswar? GHoTR mentions him exactly two times, neither of which involves the Avatar Crisis. I heard somewhere that he showed up in Mistledale. |
Kalir Patten the Wolf (LG aasimar female Pal20/Chm10 of the Red Knight)
Knight-Commander of Fort Lightreach, Order of the Lanceboard |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 02:40:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Kalach-Cha
A related question: is there any official word on where Tempus' avatar wound up during the Godswar? GHoTR mentions him exactly two times, neither of which involves the Avatar Crisis. I heard somewhere that he showed up in Mistledale.
Yup and yup.  The Avatar Trilogy: The Gods Walk Toril. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 15:07:58
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Not to add much to this (I concur with Garen Thal's suggestion ), but I think this ambiguity and presence of conflicting data is one of the things about the Realmslore that adds verisimilitude to the world.
I mean, scholarship is like that in *our* world, and all of us live here, after all!
(Except perhaps Ed, who's been known to take jaunts.)
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 17:00:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Yup and yup. The Avatar Trilogy: The Gods Walk Toril.
Interesting link! Does anyone know where there is more information on Waukeen's voyage to the Astral Plane, the Abyss and her rescue?
And also: is there any more detailed information on the adventures of the fallen gods during the ToT apart from the Avatar Trilogy which I already read?
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"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 17:14:24
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Right, I also read that one. Good novel!
However the link provides some summaries of what some gods did during the ToT, that sound as if some of their stories had been further developed somewhere. Are there maybe any old TSR novels that delve deeper into these stories? Or elsewhere?
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"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 17:18:55
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quote:
Originally posted by skychrome
Interesting link! Does anyone know where there is more information on Waukeen's voyage to the Astral Plane, the Abyss and her rescue?
You'll want a copy of the For Duty & Deity module. 'Tis available as a free PDF download at WotC.
quote:
And also: is there any more detailed information on the adventures of the fallen gods during the ToT apart from the Avatar Trilogy which I already read?
There's the original adventure modules [Shadowdale, Tantras, and Waterdeep] that feature some tidbits. Ed's "Shadow of the Avatar" trilogy also. The Faiths & Avatars and Powers & Pantheons tomes also offer some small bits about their activities too. |
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Edited by - The Sage on 10 Jun 2009 17:20:16 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 17:28:07
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Also, Labelas Enoreth was part of the Forgotten Realms comic, during the Godswar. He fought the avatar of Clangeddin Silverbeard in one issue, and later tried to take on Helm.
The Waterdhavian battle between Selūne and Shar happened in the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons comic. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 10 Jun 2009 17:29:44 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 19:12:16
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
You'll want a copy of the For Duty & Deity module. 'Tis available as a free PDF download at WotC.
And this module ties in with the Planescape module Tales of the Infinite Staircase. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 19:43:01
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
You'll want a copy of the For Duty & Deity module. 'Tis available as a free PDF download at WotC.
Great, thanks!
Look what I found there:
"Like many of the powers, Waukeen
knew of the Celestial Staircase (the Torilian name for
the Infinite Staircase) in Shadowdale and determined to
climb it. Torm, the god of guardians, confronted her and
barred her way. Waukeen attempted to bribe Torm with
his heart's desire in order to let her and Lliira pass, but
not surprisingly she failed to tempt the god of duty."
For Duty and Deity, page 3
 Wooops!
Poor Helm... Seems TSR anticipated his fusion with Torm in 4e! 
Edit: I just crossread the file. What an awesome adventure!!!
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"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
Edited by - skychrome on 10 Jun 2009 20:41:14 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2009 : 21:40:40
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quote:
Originally posted by skychrome
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
You'll want a copy of the For Duty & Deity module. 'Tis available as a free PDF download at WotC.
Great, thanks!
Look what I found there:
"Like many of the powers, Waukeen
knew of the Celestial Staircase (the Torilian name for
the Infinite Staircase) in Shadowdale and determined to
climb it. Torm, the god of guardians, confronted her and
barred her way. Waukeen attempted to bribe Torm with
his heart's desire in order to let her and Lliira pass, but
not surprisingly she failed to tempt the god of duty."
For Duty and Deity, page 3
Wooops!
Poor Helm... Seems TSR anticipated his fusion with Torm in 4e!
Edit: I just crossread the file. What an awesome adventure!!!
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There are many other references to it being Helm; I'm thinking the Torm thing was a typo. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2009 : 01:18:58
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quote:
Originally posted by skychrome
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
You'll want a copy of the For Duty & Deity module. 'Tis available as a free PDF download at WotC.
Great, thanks!
Look what I found there:
"Like many of the powers, Waukeen
knew of the Celestial Staircase (the Torilian name for
the Infinite Staircase) in Shadowdale and determined to
climb it. Torm, the god of guardians, confronted her and
barred her way. Waukeen attempted to bribe Torm with
his heart's desire in order to let her and Lliira pass, but
not surprisingly she failed to tempt the god of duty."
For Duty and Deity, page 3
Wooops!
Poor Helm... Seems TSR anticipated his fusion with Torm in 4e!
Edit: I just crossread the file. What an awesome adventure!!!
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I think you'll find that it's probably an error. Helm is god of guardians, after all.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2009 : 20:51:56
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I think you'll find that it's probably an error. Helm is god of guardians, after all.
Of course it is. I just found it funny that this error achieves some kind of self-fulfillment in 4e. |
"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
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The Red Knight
