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Aureus
Learned Scribe
Luxembourg
125 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 09:52:48
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I have been pondering over this for some time, my idea is than anyone who can who has a spellbook containing 0level spells should be able to prepare and cast one cantrip per day, the prerequesite would be 1 rank in knowledge(arcane), an Intelligence score of at least 10 and (which seems most logical) to be able to read the language the spell is written in (not necessarily understanding, that's another matter )
to me that's a way for a character to show interest in a domain he has not the time to learn and master (especially martial types who like magic but do not have the time and means to learn it fully)
Any thoughts or comments?
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That is not the weirdest thing that happened to me |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 10:13:48
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I like the idea.
As an alternative I would simply give the character a wild talent to be able to cast a cantrip once a day
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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Daviot
Senior Scribe
USA
372 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 11:21:57
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| The Magical Training Regional Feat (Player's Guide to Faerūn) is probably a more limited form of what you're thinking of, Aureus. It's for people living in highly magical societies (Evermeet/Evereska, Halruaa, and Nimbral) who have had some magical training, but haven't taken up magical studies as their primary career, allowing them a few cantrips per day. |
One usually has far more to fear from the soft-spoken wizard with a blade and well-worn boots than from the boisterous one in the ivory tower.
My Tabletop Writing CV. |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 15:16:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Daviot
The Magical Training Regional Feat (Player's Guide to Faerūn) is probably a more limited form of what you're thinking of, Aureus. It's for people living in highly magical societies (Evermeet/Evereska, Halruaa, and Nimbral) who have had some magical training, but haven't taken up magical studies as their primary career, allowing them a few cantrips per day.
Exactly my line of thinking, here. You might what to allow this feat in other regions as well or make it a [general] feat for everyone to choose if you deem it appropriate for your campaign.
Magic for everyone... the feat would be much better to be able to roleplay this magical studies interest than taking up 1 level in a magical class, which indeed would be 'costly'. |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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sirreus
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 20:25:42
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great idea, but i would not turn it into a general feat. i would simply adjust the regions a bit. there are some regions the feat is simply not right for(regions populated heavily with barbarians or nomads). still i'm gonna redo that list, soon.  |
"The measure of an undisciplined mind, is that the intellect allows emotion to challenge the observed truth" Richard Baker |
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Aureus
Learned Scribe
Luxembourg
125 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 21:34:51
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| In my eyes a feat would be costly too for something that's 99% for flavor and roleplay with no actual combat utility, cantrips are just to weak compared to what the martial classes can dish out by their great choice of weapons and the arcane failure rule still applies, even though it's just a cantrip |
That is not the weirdest thing that happened to me |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 21:46:05
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quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
As an alternative I would simply give the character a wild talent to be able to cast a cantrip once a day
Yes, this is already part of the Realms as magical wild talents, not something a character consciously chooses but perhaps by a player. The nature of Art would be different if anyone could do it by picking up a spellbook. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 22:55:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Aureus
In my eyes a feat would be costly too for something that's 99% for flavor and roleplay with no actual combat utility, cantrips are just to weak compared to what the martial classes can dish out by their great choice of weapons and the arcane failure rule still applies, even though it's just a cantrip
So make it a skill.  |
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Vangelor
Learned Scribe
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 23:33:57
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| Some cantrips are quite handy, and there is more to adventure than combat. I don't think a feat slot is too high a price to pay for arcane magic ability - even if it is only for cantrips. But your roof, your rules. Houserule this however you like. |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2008 : 08:28:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Aureus
In my eyes a feat would be costly too for something that's 99% for flavor and roleplay with no actual combat utility, cantrips are just to weak compared to what the martial classes can dish out by their great choice of weapons and the arcane failure rule still applies, even though it's just a cantrip
So make it a skill.
Like what? Some Skill check DC 20 to be able to cast a cantrip? If that is not costly as well... imagine a fighter with his 2 skill points. Than again, where else are those spent better than for roleplaying reasons. The more I think about it, the better I think of this idea, actually. How about this:
pre-req: INT score of at least 10, at least 1 skill point in knowledge arcane, at least 1 skill point in Concentration.
To cast a cantrip: DC 20 Spellcraft check
(You could edvance faster with the skill by taking feats such as 'cosmopolitan' or maybe 'education' as well.) |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Aureus
Learned Scribe
Luxembourg
125 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2008 : 12:47:28
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the spellcraft check could be used when the char is under stress (like combat, time running short etc) but when the char is relaxed (like sitting in a tavern and levitating with prestidigitation his ale back and forth between the table and the bar) he should be able to use it without difficulty
adding 1 skill point in concentration is a good idea |
That is not the weirdest thing that happened to me |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2008 : 16:31:39
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| Stick to the feat, as is. Note that you use character level as caster level for these cantrips, so it's already a major advantage (a Ftr 20 with that feat would have a caster level of 20, better than an Wiz19 without the feat...) |
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sirreus
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2008 : 19:34:45
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| cudos, pdk. that's a great point i'd missed |
"The measure of an undisciplined mind, is that the intellect allows emotion to challenge the observed truth" Richard Baker |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2008 : 20:34:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Stick to the feat, as is. Note that you use character level as caster level for these cantrips, so it's already a major advantage (a Ftr 20 with that feat would have a caster level of 20, better than an Wiz19 without the feat...)
But even with it being feat-based, is it really reasonable that a fighter could out-cantrip a wizard? |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2008 : 21:30:01
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And while we are inventing a new thing here, you could limit the caster level to half of the character level for such none arcane caster classes, if you fear the cantrips on lvl 20.
Just a thought... |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Iliyan
Acolyte
Croatia
42 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 11:49:15
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Why even limit the idea to cantrips?
Orisons and Cantrips are both very exciting and amusing ways to bring more magic into your games... think of it like this:
Everyone can learn 1 0-level spell per day if he/she follows the following rules:
Requirements:
Cantrips:
Minimally 10 Intelligence
1 Rank in: Knowledge( Arcane), Spellcraft
OR
Orisons:
Minimally 10 Wisdom
Worship of a Deity( you must match the Deity's Alignment)
*For instance, if the Deity is LG, your alignment must be within 1 space of the Deity's therefore you must be either LG, NG, or LN.*
1 Rank in: Knowledge( Religion), Spellcraft
Cantrips:
To prepare and learn a single Cantrip, a untrained person( aka not a Arcane Spellcaster) must provide himself with a small Spellbook( miniature versions would be available for purchase) which contains the spell to be cast( a common method is paying a Wizard, or a Adept to scribe the spell in the book, which would cost 50gp).
Furthermore preparing the spell follows the same rules as Wizards. The spell is Prepared, becomes expended if used.
Preparing the spell takes 10 minutes, during which you study and memorize the Verbal and Somatic gestures required to cast it.
Recent Castings limit applies( you may not memorize the spell if you cast it in under 12 hours, meaning you can memorize it once every 12 hours)
Unlike Wizards, you do not need 8 full hours of rest or limited activity to start preparing the spell, since the spell is so minor.
Orisons:
To prepare and cast a single Orison, a untrained person( aka not a Divine Spellcaster) must pray for 10 minutes at a specified time, relevant to the Deity, asking for the Favor of the Deity.
However, asking for a Deity's Favor is a risky task, not all Deity's grant spells to such minor worshipers, and some may even be offended by such a request.( DM discretion)
After successfully praying and gaining the favor of the Deity, you gain the ability to cast a single Orison 1/day.
The gained Orison must be available to the Deity to cast[ for instance, Good Deity's cant cast spells with the [Evil] descriptor, much like Lawful Deity's cant cast spells with the [Chaos] descriptor.]
You may once again prepare another Orison after having Prayed for 10 minutes during the relevant time( Dawn for good Deity's... etc, DM call), furthermore, you cant prepare the spell if you cast it under 8 Hours ago.
*All this effectively means that you can cast only 1 Orison per day. However Orisons tend to be a bit more powerful then Cantrips, and thus I find this a fair deal.*
There, I hope I provided you with a means to further familiarize your players with the ways of magic, for it is a way most dear to me and I myself reward my players to explore, and experiment with magic! |
Edited by - Iliyan on 21 Feb 2008 11:52:30 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 14:43:11
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Considering that cantrips have oft been described as minor magical exercises and something an apprentice learns before moving up to real spells, I dislike the idea of memorizing or otherwise preparing a cantrip. My thinking is a spellcraft check to visualize the effect you want, and then doing with a verbal and somantic component. For example, an apprentice wishing to dust a shelf would visualize blowing all the dust off the shelf, make some sort of sound approximating a focused burst of air ("Pfft!"), and a brushing gesture with one hand. He does all this, and the shelf is suddenly dusted.
That's why I always favored that proficiency approach in that 2E article: it kept things simple and preserved the flavor of cantrips. I think it would be simple enough to do in 3.x as a skill; make spellcraft a prerequisite, make the mods and checks for this Cantrips skill the same, and impose limits on it similar to those in that long ago article. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2008 : 16:23:22
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I would make it similar to skill tricks as introduced in the Complete Scoundrel.
For Orisons I would say that you have to have a Wis of 10 (min to cast a level 0 spell) and 5 Ranks into Knowledge (Religion) (min to show competence in any knowledge, and min for any skill trick), and then have to spend 2 skill points to learn the skill trick Cast Orison, by which means you can cast 3 Orisons per day by praying to your deity.
For Cantrips I would say that you have to have a Int of 10 (min to cast a level 0 spell) and 5 Ranks into Knowledge (Arcana) (min to show competence in any knowledge, and min for any skill trick), and then have to spend 2 skill points to learn the skill trick Cast Cantrip, by which means you can cast 3 Cantrips per day by casting them out of a spell book.
This could also be a new way to incorporate a Book of Common Prayers to [insert deity here] and a Book of Common Cantrips into your game. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2008 : 09:26:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Iliyan
Why even limit the idea to cantrips?
Orisons and Cantrips are both very exciting and amusing ways to bring more magic into your games... think of it like this:
*snip*
I have to disagree with you. Orisons are not like cantrisat all. While arcane magic is a talent that can be 'learned' the the divine art, and that includes even the most minor spells such as orisons, are a gift granted by the gods themselves.
Therefore I would not extend this idea to divine magic.
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"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2008 : 17:26:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
quote:
Originally posted by Iliyan
Why even limit the idea to cantrips?
Orisons and Cantrips are both very exciting and amusing ways to bring more magic into your games... think of it like this:
*snip*
I have to disagree with you. Orisons are not like cantrisat all. While arcane magic is a talent that can be 'learned' the the divine art, and that includes even the most minor spells such as orisons, are a gift granted by the gods themselves.
Therefore I would not extend this idea to divine magic.
That is why I suggested a Common Book of Prayers for your patron deity, and 5 ranks into Knowledge (Religion). Who is to say (other than the DM) whether or not the character's patron deity is willing to grant them 3 Orisons per day if they go through the trouble of learning about the deity, and learning specific prayers for specific Orisons? |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2008 : 08:15:44
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| Point taken! I still don't likde the idea, personally..... |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2008 : 17:14:16
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Stick to the rules. It's much better that way!
Otherwise you'll have to keep devising extra rules for drow, aasimar, gnomes and everyone else with spell-like abilities... not to mention that Races of Faerun and Drow of the Underdark [3.5] have additional *feats* that let you improve upon these aforementioned spell-like abilities.
The FR regional cantrip feat (Magical Training was it?) is a VERY powerful feat. Please remember that detect magic lets you pinpoint invisible foes after 3 rounds of concentration, a major advantage for say, a 4th-level fighter town guard manning the gates!  |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2008 : 17:32:12
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To my reading, discussion of cantrips in Realmslore is too coherent to dismiss as a rules artefact. For instance, Cyclopedia of the Realms p. 57:quote:
After years of what seem to the student to be arduous and unpleasant tasks, the tutoring mage will begin instructions in the easiest cantrips, then later moving on to the first spell books.
DM's Sourcebook of the Realms p. 78:quote:
Sabirine . . . was a mage with an especial interest in cantrips, and was an enthusiastic advocate of the continued use and refinement of cantrips by magic-users of long career and high level. The Specular, for instance, contains three unique cantrips developed by Sabirine: catfeet, snatch, and spark.
FR7 Hall of Heroes p. 113:quote:
Even before she could read or write well, Jhessail had discovered how to use a few simple cantrips, just from carefully observing mages and their apprentices. She delighted her young friends with such petty magics as blue light.
That kind of precocious ability, and magical wild talents, are rare. Blurring the line further between mages and non-mages would be too much. |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2008 : 17:54:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Stick to the rules. It's much better that way!
Otherwise you'll have to keep devising extra rules for drow, aasimar, gnomes and everyone else with spell-like abilities... not to mention that Races of Faerun and Drow of the Underdark [3.5] have additional *feats* that let you improve upon these aforementioned spell-like abilities.
That might be true. After all, there are enough feats, skills, PrC, SubC, ect out there already to make keeping track no easy task for any DM!
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Please remember that detect magic lets you pinpoint invisible foes after 3 rounds of concentration, a major advantage for say, a 4th-level fighter town guard manning the gates!
Does this hold true? My understanding of the spell was a different one. Besides, your interpretation would make the spell 'See invisibility' almost redundent! We had a similar discussion in this thread: Detect magic and Illusion/invisibility |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 23 Feb 2008 17:57:53 |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2008 : 21:26:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
Does this hold true? My understanding of the spell was a different one. Besides, your interpretation would make the spell 'See invisibility' almost redundent! We had a similar discussion in this thread: Detect magic and Illusion/invisibility
See Invisibility is much more powerful: it lets you see invisibles immediately upon casting (no need to wait 3 rounds to pinpoint the aura). It also lets you see "up to your range of vision", which is pretty far in the case of a dragon, say, flying 5,000 feet above ground on a clear day... (see below)
As per SRD:
"You can see any objects or beings that are invisible within your range of vision, as well as any that are ethereal, as if they were normally visible. Such creatures are visible to you as translucent shapes, allowing you easily to discern the difference between visible, invisible, and ethereal creatures."
Detect Magic lets you see where the illusion school aura is after 3 rounds: that's it! You still have a 50% miss chance if you shoot at that mysterious illusion aura coming towards you... See Invisibility, on the other hand, does away with such constraints. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2008 : 22:21:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
To my reading, discussion of cantrips in Realmslore is too coherent to dismiss as a rules artefact. For instance, Cyclopedia of the Realms p. 57:quote:
After years of what seem to the student to be arduous and unpleasant tasks, the tutoring mage will begin instructions in the easiest cantrips, then later moving on to the first spell books.
DM's Sourcebook of the Realms p. 78:quote:
Sabirine . . . was a mage with an especial interest in cantrips, and was an enthusiastic advocate of the continued use and refinement of cantrips by magic-users of long career and high level. The Specular, for instance, contains three unique cantrips developed by Sabirine: catfeet, snatch, and spark.
FR7 Hall of Heroes p. 113:quote:
Even before she could read or write well, Jhessail had discovered how to use a few simple cantrips, just from carefully observing mages and their apprentices. She delighted her young friends with such petty magics as blue light.
That kind of precocious ability, and magical wild talents, are rare. Blurring the line further between mages and non-mages would be too much.
And this is the kind of stuff that has shaped my view of cantrips. It's why I favor the approach I suggested. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Iliyan
Acolyte
Croatia
42 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2008 : 10:20:28
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Ok, i must say that Orisons maybe don't quite fall into the same category as cantrips on this matter... thus shouldn't be so easy accesable..
However, please note that learning and casting cantrips in the manner i sudgested wouldnt break anything... simply because the fact stands, its still arcane magic...
Before you mentioned the guard using detect magic... well i recon the guard is using some kind of armour, not very likely its a Twilight Mithral Breastplate +1 of Nimbleness...
so he WILL have a serious ASF chance from 20%+
lets not forget that cantrips are rather limited in their duration... and that a untrained caster has a CL of 1...( if even that)
so you sudgest 3 rounds of concentration?... the detect magic will last 1 min max for that guard.. he will have a ASF for it when he wants to cast it, and lets not forget, if someone is invisible, the guard must first notice him, to even start using detect magic, and then concentrate for 3 rounds to detect him completely( and the target moves.. oh no, 3 more rounds of concentration)
Lets just conclude that Cantrips are FUN, and thats pretty much it... you could use Ray of Frost, to make a Frozen Rose for your love...
you could tidy the house with Prestidigitation( 1hr duration)...
you can use Read Magic, to help you studdy magic further, thus maybe someday aquiring a rank of actual Wizard... the proces takes ALOTA time
you can use Mending as a Expert Clocksmith to help you fix briken parts...
you can use Ghost Sounds to help you win over a crowd with ventriloquism...
you can help yourself with dancing lights...
detect poisons helps in the local hospital...
Thus, Magic is a VITAL part of the world... who wouldn't want to use it, should it be made available like this... and in combat.. it would be pretty much useless( oh no, 1d4 frost damage >.<) |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2008 : 16:10:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And this is the kind of stuff that has shaped my view of cantrips. It's why I favor the approach I suggested.
IMO, as much as I like 3.x, there are already too many skills in it. That is why I suggested using the Skill Trick mechanic to accomplish pretty much the same thing. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Stonwulfe
Seeker
Canada
81 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2008 : 18:53:23
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I am going to throw a few hats in the ring here and see who picks them up. First off, I tend to do things a little differently in my present campaign. I have made a few chages to encourage my players to roleplay.
First of these is that anyone capable of casting first level spells and has a relevant ability mod of +2 or higher may cast an unlimited number of 0-level spells per day. The rationale is that any wizard/sorcerer worth his salt should be able to move a pencil, freeze a glass of water, or create the illusion of light with almost effortless expense.
Second, as it comes to the feat Magical Training, there are a number of societal situ where I allow my players the opportunity to gain the benefit of access to cantrips if they have no desire to pursue an XP exenditure in a class. For example, the wild and forest elves and the peoples of the lake of steam have strong shamanic traditions that mix arcane, divine, and pseudo-magical arts. It is conceivable that such cultures can produce a 'hedge magic' used by proficient scouts, warriors, and trained soldiery. However, those with said feat are exempt of the aforementioned benefit.
Third - I enjoy treating prestidigitation (in the same wording as an old Dragon article) as 'the little wish', and encourage my more forward players to be inventive with it. The cantrip should be able to accomplish nearly any feat, so long as it doesn't produce any lasting or grandiose effects. That said, an inventive rogue with magical training in my campaign once used a summoned banana peel to send a guard in pursuit cantering off his battlement and into the moat, and later used the same to conceal the scent of a stolen ring from the guard dogs.
I welcome all replies. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2008 : 19:05:49
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| I think even cantrips can have lasting effects, depending on what those effects are... That's always been a bit of a problem with the rules and cantrips: the specification that the cantrips are always short-lived. So that means that if you use a cantrip to light a candle, the candle will go out a few minutes later, or if you use a cantrip to tie a show, then the shoe comes untied a few minutes later, or that if you use a cantrip to shave, the facial hair comes back within minutes. Minor effects like that shouldn't have a limited duration. I'm not saying that the candle can't be blown out, the shoe can't be untied, or that the facial hair won't grow back throughout the day, I'm just saying that the "no lasting effects" line shouldn't make cantrips useless. That doesn't keep with the flavor of cantrips. |
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Stonwulfe
Seeker
Canada
81 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2008 : 19:20:41
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| I agree completely, Wooly. |
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0 level spells
