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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Feb 2008 : 01:18:16
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Two fold post here:
1) I know under 2nd edition the Realms specifically had Crusaders, Harpers, Spellsingers, Shadow Walkers, Monks, and Shaman (although Shaman was kind of "shared" with D&D in general). Were there any other FR specific standard classes that I missed? I know that Ed did a few NPC classes in 1st edition (Smiths and scribes, if I remember correctly).
2) Has anyone given any thought to how to emulate some of the "underserved" classes in 3.5?
Shaman
Shaman are more or less covered with the Spirit Shaman from Complete Divine, not to mention there are various 3rd party Shaman classes that more or less cover this role if the "official" one doesn't serve.
Monks
Monks, I know, under 2nd edition had divine spellcasting, but under 1st edition, they didn't, so I'm okay with Monks that cast clerical spells just being multi class (especially with PrCs like the Sacred Fist).
Spellsingers
Spellsingers are a whole different bag, because the Spellsinger PrC that we got was based more on the "spellsinging" Elven Minstrel bard kit (and didn't really capture that feel as well as it could have). The Ed inspired Spellsinger was changed to Spelldancer in Magic of Faerun, and I really felt that it was not particularly the best translation.
So for Spellsingers, I was thinking of using the Spellmaster from Green Ronin's Advanced Player's Manual, with a few modifications. First off, no divine spells. Second, to compensate for the no divine spells, free skill focus in perform (dance) and perform (singing).
Spellmasters can learn spells of almost any level, can try to cast them with a danger to themselves, spend long amounts of time gathering magical energy, and can only "hold" a limited number of spells that they gather. If you have access to this source, and remember Spellsingers, give this a look, as I think that this might be a pretty good fit. The biggest problem is that there is not cooperative aspect to the Spellmaster's spell gathering ability.
Crusader
The crusader class from 3.5 really doesn't fit with the old concept of this class. The Warpriest from the Advanced Player's Manual isn't a perfect fit, but it is a martial oriented priest that gains a d10, slightly lower spell progression (max out at 6th level), and the ability to cast some spontaneous battlefield effects like healing, as well as turning at a lower level than clerics.
(The turning actually fits, if you look at the "Warriors and Priests" version instead of the Faiths and Avatars version)
Shadow Walkers
The shadowsworn class from Malhavoc's Book of Roguish Luck seems to fit this to a tee, if its a bit more sinister than the original (Shadowsworm have to be non good in alignment).
Mystics
This is a tough one. My first instinct was to just use mystics from Dragonlance, but to make them required to have a patron deity, but mystics from Dragonlance are still more martial than the class was as presented in 2nd edition, plus, the familiar thing doesn't work.
They could be adepts, but that makes them severely underpowered.
Thinking slightly outside of the box though, it occurred to me that two things are possible. One, you can use Mystics from DL, drop the ability to use armor and shields, and give them a familiar for their trouble.
Or
You can change the Witch class from Green Ronin from an arcane caster to a divine caster, require a patron, and open up their spell selection to all of the cleric spells in the game. The witch gets no armor and simple weapons, a familiar, timeless body, and several bonus feats that could be used for brew potion and similar feats.
Plus they get 4 skill points per level instead of 2, meaning they can learn a bit more "professional" skills in their advancement. And they still qualify for the old Candle Caster PrC from Tome and Blood if they want to go that route.
Harpers
Honestly, I don't see much reason to have a class of these guys. Most of their abilities would fall under rogues or scouts under 3.5, especially since a 1st level Harper wasn't automatically a Harper yet.
Anyway, I know that was a lot to throw out there, but if anyone has any thoughts, I'd love to see them. Thanks.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2008 : 02:35:27
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| I really liked the 2E Crusader. I thought it was a great class, and a wonderful alternative to the paladin. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2008 : 16:29:07
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| speaking of the spellsinger... I always wanted to see a spell artist prestige class of some sort, ala the Thieve's World series, where what the person painted came true. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2008 : 18:49:33
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I've always handled monks as both a profession and a class. The same way someone can be an assassin, and called an assassin, and not be part of an assassin class.
They way I figured it, most "monks" were simply religious people who withdrew from the world. If they had a class, it was cleric, though not everyone in a monastery was a cleric. In 3.5 terms, they'd be cloistered clerics.
Since the monk class has always been based off of Eastern warrior-mystics (like Wudan and others), I ruled that only monasteries with access/were close to Kara-Tur could have monks of the monk class. It made the "martial arts" monk a lot rarer and more special, and settled the contradiction between editions. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Shilo99
Seeker
63 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2008 : 13:35:11
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Interesting topic KnightErrantJR.
Harpers: agreed they are an organisation & definitely not a class (I think even the range of published Harper PrCs don't fit all that well to their core focus). Remember the heavy representation of bards & rangers in the org (although every bloody Harper in the novels seems to be a wizard!)
Shadow Walkers...I liked them a lot, and used them sort of like an urban Harper with more of a vigilante feel, and operating from Westgate & parts South, especially the Vilhon Reach, which was their origin.
I'll have to try to dig out the reference & see if I scrawled any notes in the margins. I don't have the Green Ronin ref...
Given my orientation of them towards the Vilhon, perhaps they take some direction from the 3e psionic class powers like the lurk (although I'm not suggesting they need be psionicists). Shadowdancers (DNG PrC) can give them strong sneaky powers, although summon shadow is probably not appropriate, and the backstory reference to troupes would need replacing.
On monks, I think there are enough 'western' martial arts traditions to justify non-Kara-Tur linked monks, and 3e FR has plenty of well-detailed orders in canon & on the net. As you have poibnted out the average monk is a very different beats than kung-fu & co. The Cloistered Cleric variant from Unearthed Arcana certainly seems to fit, and is a pretty powerful build.
Will have a think & try to come up with suggestions.
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Standard Classes Unique to the Realms
