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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 07:16:31
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Today one of my player had his cleric of Torm cast destruction of a 12-headed pyrohydra and utterly destroyed it.
Now, I know a lawful good cleric can't cast spells with the chaos or evil descriptor, but what about the death descriptor? Destruction is a death spell and for some reasons I seem to remember something about that but cannnot locate, in the rules, anything saying casting a death spell is an evil act.
Any idea where I could have read that death descriptor is not good for good-aligned casters? (no pun intended! :P)
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 07:46:09
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| I can't think of any. I think there is some overlap in (Evil) and (Death) spells, but I don't think that death is automatically a non-good spell, and the way 3.5 is set up, it should have the (Evil) descriptor if its not suppose to be used by a good aligned divine caster. |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 13:20:28
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I can't think of any. I think there is some overlap in (Evil) and (Death) spells, but I don't think that death is automatically a non-good spell, and the way 3.5 is set up, it should have the (Evil) descriptor if its not suppose to be used by a good aligned divine caster.
That's what I recall as well. However, I had a house rule restricting clerics to cast spells opposed to their gods domains. So a Claric of Lathander was not permitted to cast [Death]-Spells as his god has a domain opposing death - Renewal. Likewise, clerics of Moradin were not allowed to cast spells with the [Air]-discriptor as that was opposing their gods domain of Earth. You get the meaning? Now, be that as it may, I doubt that you have heard of this particular house rule of mine.  |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 23 Jan 2008 13:28:28 |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 19:46:55
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| That's my "judgement" also -- Death is not one of the 'Alignment' descriptors, and hence it's not denied to Lawful or Good characters. |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 20:06:10
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Did a little exploring, Death Domain is not Evil Domain, however the Death Domain spells include spells that have the Evil descripter (create undead for example), however others clearly are not in of themself an Evil spell.
Good characters cause death often, fireball, vopal blade head remval and so on. Causing death is not an Evil act in and of itself, reason for causing death might be evil or good. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 23:07:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Good characters cause death often, fireball, vopal blade head remval and so on. Causing death is not an Evil act in and of itself, reason for causing death might be evil or good.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 01:06:29
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Cool! then I have no reasons to prevent him to cast Destruction on his foes! Thank you dear Scribes!  |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2008 : 06:03:33
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On the other hand, Necromantic spells with the "Death" descriptor would probably fall under the heading of "Black Necromancy" (viz. The Complete Book of Necromancers), and they sure as the Nine Hells would be grounds for a check in Ravenloft, so I would suggest mixing it up a little: have pragmatic Good deities allow such spells, and rigidly Good deities (Tyr, Torm, Helm, Lathander, etc.) force a cleric to atone (or atone!) for using such a spell.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2008 : 09:04:45
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[quote]Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
spells, and rigidly Good deities (Tyr, Torm, Helm, Lathander, etc.) force a cleric to atone (or atone!) for using such a spell.
Or just let the spell not work next time they cast it? that would be more fitting if you want them to atone - so they are in the middle of combat the spell doesn't work at all, they try to cast another spell and that too is gone, all they see is the Destruction of the Hydra as a mental image, so hopefully they will realise that their God does not approve of this spell being cast 'frivilously'. However, that is not to say that for a very good reason they could not cast it, but it has to be given to them by their God
metagame, party's castle/temple is being assaulted by 500 Zhent troops backed up by Wizards and Priests who are summoning a devil to kill them all, player character priest says, "Torm please grant me the power to smite my enemies" and a destruction spell arrives as a prayer in the priests head.
Just another way of controlling spells/paryers that you think they should not generally cast given characters aligments and faith.
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2008 : 09:33:05
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Having mulled over the whole thing for a week now, I no longer see a shred of a problem with the Tormite cleric smiting his foes with powerful death spells. As long as the evil descriptor is not included, fair game as far as I'm concerned.
Now, using it on monsters and evil foes is what I have in mind: if the same thing is done to a helpless or surrendering foe, that's another thing, and should be dealt exactly the same way one would deal with a paladin questioning a bound prisoner with a sharp dagger under the prisoner's throat... (i.e. torture, killing of innocents, etc.) |
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Death Descriptor
