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ajfurst
Acolyte
Australia
21 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 02:26:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Venger
Besides, from what I understand about the situation, it's about keeping the Forgotten Realms game line afloat. My impression is that the Realms have been steadily declining in sales, and they're making these changes in an attempt to keep the Realms going by doing something drastic in the hopes of bringing in new fans. That's my guess, anyway. That's a lot more plausible, though, then taking such a big risk with the entire product line just for the sake of game designers and novel writers (while simultaneously screwing the novel writers).
The obvious (to a non-WoTC person!) one there would be then, why not all the novel writers license to write stories set in ANY time period from 1375 through to 1479 then? Not only would it allow them the chance to let their characters die/go into the sunset as they've planned, we could get a whole bunch of interesting new stories on the effects of the Spellplague, the emergence of the Dragonborn, etc. I certainly would pay to get my hands on those books. Just because they don't want any more adventures till the new FR date, doesn't mean they must cut off the novels as well. Forcing that on the authors seems to me to be cutting off their noses to spite their faces. And from their point of view, an exceedingly poor business decision, when the novels are doing well, even if the game lines aren't. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 02:29:30
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quote:
Originally posted by ajfurst
Making this one change would have given WoTC their new 'streamlined' setting for attracting new players, whilst not doing such a fine job at alienating current FR fans. I still don't see why they can't at this point change the starting year of new FR to some like 1397 - no source books have been released yet. I can't see a downside for WoTC, only an upside.
Source books and Novels have already been contracted for, to change date effects what has all ready been aproved and some could be in final typeset.
A major change to timeline could require some major revisions in existing contracts. Any major revision will also delay release of Product. As such odds are as high as a fleas eye that timeline will be changed, too much has already been invested in current timeline already. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 21:53:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Venger
I very much doubt they were made with novel writers in mind. Just think about how badly the 100 year time jump screws things up for the writers. R.A. Salvatore? Wulfgar, Cattie-Brie, and Regis are almost certainly dead. Bruenor's likely dead, too. So's Cadderly. Elaine Cunningham? Arilyn Moonblade's probably dead, and so's Danilo Thann. And that's just for starters. Who knows how many other writers have lost characters due to the time jump and other events.
It's not about individual characters that might wind up dead, it's about making the setting easier for writers (some of whom may not have ever written in the setting before) to use without having to worry about whether or not what they are writing might conflict with some bit of obscure lore. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 21 Jan 2008 22:00:06 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 21:56:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
This isn't about what I think of individual posters and if you're unwilling to talk about your opinions on a thread devoted to discussing them, then there's really not much point in posting, is there RF?
I have posted my specific concerns time and again. I just don't feel the need to repeat myself EVERY SINGLE TIME someone comes along and says, "Hey, what's the big deal here, I don't see it, what's your problem with the changes?" Especially not if they're going to imply, right off the bat, that said concerns are unimportant. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 21 Jan 2008 21:58:28 |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 22:06:21
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Noted.
Though I do note that you do this a good deal and oddly, I'm not familiar with all your threads so if you ever had links I'd appreciate them because I do want to read your arguments.
A lot of times I'm away from the boards for extended periods. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 04:22:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Venger
I very much doubt they were made with novel writers in mind. Just think about how badly the 100 year time jump screws things up for the writers. R.A. Salvatore? Wulfgar, Cattie-Brie, and Regis are almost certainly dead. Bruenor's likely dead, too. So's Cadderly. Elaine Cunningham? Arilyn Moonblade's probably dead, and so's Danilo Thann. And that's just for starters. Who knows how many other writers have lost characters due to the time jump and other events.
It's not the current writers their thinking about. It's the cheap new writers they can get to write novels that hopefully won't bomb.
RA Salvatore will continue to write where he's writing. I don't see him advancing his timeline 100 years, he wouldn't advance it 3 years into the 3E time period.
Elaine? If they cared, they wouldn't have let a story about an elf and a moonblade pop up in Realms of Elves without knowing what Elaine was doing.. but then again, the last song & sword book may be her last book, it's not like they knock on her door demanding a book like they probably do with Ed and Bob.
How many other authors are there? Ed's writing in pre-3E. Bob's writing in pre-3E. Paul Kemp is there only other active "New Year Times Best Selling Author" and if all his novels keep selling well, odds are he'll keep writing about Cale in whatever time period he wants.
All the other authors won't be finished with their trilogies well into 2009, long after 4E is here. Who says they have to write another Realms novel afterward? Actually.. looking at the current books; undead, drow, and demon... they'd all be alive in 104 years. :) |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 04:50:23
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
quote:
Originally posted by Venger
I very much doubt they were made with novel writers in mind. Just think about how badly the 100 year time jump screws things up for the writers. R.A. Salvatore? Wulfgar, Cattie-Brie, and Regis are almost certainly dead. Bruenor's likely dead, too. So's Cadderly. Elaine Cunningham? Arilyn Moonblade's probably dead, and so's Danilo Thann. And that's just for starters. Who knows how many other writers have lost characters due to the time jump and other events.
It's not the current writers their thinking about. It's the cheap new writers they can get to write novels that hopefully won't bomb.
RA Salvatore will continue to write where he's writing. I don't see him advancing his timeline 100 years, he wouldn't advance it 3 years into the 3E time period.
Elaine? If they cared, they wouldn't have let a story about an elf and a moonblade pop up in Realms of Elves without knowing what Elaine was doing.. but then again, the last song & sword book may be her last book, it's not like they knock on her door demanding a book like they probably do with Ed and Bob.
How many other authors are there? Ed's writing in pre-3E. Bob's writing in pre-3E. Paul Kemp is there only other active "New Year Times Best Selling Author" and if all his novels keep selling well, odds are he'll keep writing about Cale in whatever time period he wants.
All the other authors won't be finished with their trilogies well into 2009, long after 4E is here. Who says they have to write another Realms novel afterward? Actually.. looking at the current books; undead, drow, and demon... they'd all be alive in 104 years. :)
To be fair, a lot of the "young dragons" that have come along are much better with canon and their love their love of the setting than previous generations of writers. I'm very impressed, for example, with people like Erik Scott deBie, Jaleigh Johnson, and Murry Leeder, than with some of the people in the past that have gotten contracts to write Realms and Dragonlance books mainly because they were working for TSR. |
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ShepherdGunn
Seeker
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 12:21:23
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I think we're going to find a huge discrepancy in timelines for quite some time. Unless Wot-zi decides to enforce a Banite like hand on the authors, I see a lot of the authors writing their books prior to 4E for a while, maybe some doing the Spellplague and maybe during it as well. That, in my opinion, would be the smart thing. Maybe that's the reason that there's no "timeline" for that period yet. It's not been written, yet?
Then again, Wot-zi could decide that there's no money to be made telling the tales of epic heroes in a truly epic situation. I mean, this is the company that bought the Legends of the Five Rings license for the express purpose of trying to kill some competition. |
"Man does not live by bread alone, likewise, blades and arrows aren't the only things that can kill him." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 13:32:20
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quote:
Originally posted by ShepherdGunn
I think we're going to find a huge discrepancy in timelines for quite some time. Unless Wot-zi decides to enforce a Banite like hand on the authors, I see a lot of the authors writing their books prior to 4E for a while, maybe some doing the Spellplague and maybe during it as well. That, in my opinion, would be the smart thing. Maybe that's the reason that there's no "timeline" for that period yet. It's not been written, yet?
Then again, Wot-zi could decide that there's no money to be made telling the tales of epic heroes in a truly epic situation. I mean, this is the company that bought the Legends of the Five Rings license for the express purpose of trying to kill some competition.
WotC dictates what its authors will write. So writers will do post-Sellplague stuff, or their Realms won't be published. There might be one or two exceptions to this -- particularly Ed -- but only a couple, and those will be on a case-by-case basis. Remember, one thing Realms novels have almost never done is venture into the past. They almost always move forward. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 17:06:32
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
RA Salvatore will continue to write where he's writing. I don't see him advancing his timeline 100 years, he wouldn't advance it 3 years into the 3E time period.
I'm not entirely sure about this one, the trilogy is entitled Transitions, and the Orc King pretty much tied up all the loose ends of the Hunter's Blade trilogy. Personally, I think they will probably try and use R.A.S. and Drizzt to help force the transition into 4e. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 17:20:11
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| Or Transitions could have much deeper meaning. Catti and Drizzt marrying. Catti becoming a Wizard. Wulfgar going home. It's the first time RA Salvatore really shook things up if you ask me. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 17:22:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Noted.
Though I do note that you do this a good deal and oddly, I'm not familiar with all your threads so if you ever had links I'd appreciate them because I do want to read your arguments.
I'm sorry to say I'm not the type of person who has copies and links of my posts. Maybe try a search? Or, just give it time, I'll probably repeat points that are particularly important to me again. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 17:25:37
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
How many other authors are there? Ed's writing in pre-3E. Bob's writing in pre-3E. Paul Kemp is there only other active "New Year Times Best Selling Author" and if all his novels keep selling well, odds are he'll keep writing about Cale in whatever time period he wants.
Mr. Kemp has said that his next trilogy will be set in the post-Spellplague era.
It's entirely possible that Ed's new novels will be post-Spellplague as well. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 20:18:05
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| Well then there you go, if Ed does write a post-spellplague novel I'll bet money it'll be an elminster story to update us on his core characters that are still alive. Personally I think Ed has too many stories he wants to tell in the pre-spellplague era and I want to read them! |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 21:02:13
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Well then there you go, if Ed does write a post-spellplague novel I'll bet money it'll be an elminster story to update us on his core characters that are still alive. Personally I think Ed has too many stories he wants to tell in the pre-spellplague era and I want to read them!
If Elminster is still around... With the push to dump all current high-level people, it's iffy. And Ed has implied, more than once, that El's time in the Realms may be drawing to a close. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 22 Jan 2008 21:12:49 |
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Venger
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 21:09:04
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quote:
If Elminster is still around... With the push to dump all high-level people, it's iffy.
Elminster is still around. Here's Rich Baker on the subject.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14733009&postcount=2050
quote:
quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenscroft
Is there any truth to the rumour that Elminster is being killed-off?
(at a pre-premiere , in Virginia and by Ed Greenwood)
Nope. I had a nice chat with Ed Greenwood at GenCon about Elminster in the post-Spellplague world, and I'm pretty happy with El's place in the scheme of things for 4e. I think Ed is too.
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"Beware what you say when you speak of magic, wizard, or you shall see who has the greater power." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 21:17:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Venger
quote:
If Elminster is still around... With the push to dump all high-level people, it's iffy.
Elminster is still around. Here's Rich Baker on the subject.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14733009&postcount=2050
quote:
quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenscroft
Is there any truth to the rumour that Elminster is being killed-off?
(at a pre-premiere , in Virginia and by Ed Greenwood)
Nope. I had a nice chat with Ed Greenwood at GenCon about Elminster in the post-Spellplague world, and I'm pretty happy with El's place in the scheme of things for 4e. I think Ed is too.
Hmm. You replied while I was editing my post. 
I guess El's money-making status protected him. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 21:20:16
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Oh, I'm sure that El being a money-maker won out (thankfully!) over the hordes of people who love complaining about him.
Of course, we only know that El's still around. We don't know how much he's changed. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 21:22:56
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| At GenCon, Ed discussed writing a novel in the past, instead of the future. Of course he is writing post spell plauge as well, if only in FRCG. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 23:00:49
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quote:
Of course, we only know that El's still around. We don't know how much he's changed.
LIke I said elsewhere, a part of nme expects to see Elimisnter follow Hilather/Halaster's route, go mad, and become the Grand Terror of the Realms.
That way WotC can keep him around and PCs can start carving on him. Everyone wins! :sick: |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 23:03:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
quote:
Of course, we only know that El's still around. We don't know how much he's changed.
LIke I said elsewhere, a part of nme expects to see Elimisnter follow Hilather/Halaster's route, go mad, and become the Grand Terror of the Realms.
That way WotC can keep him around and PCs can start carving on him. Everyone wins! :sick:
Can't say that I'd be surprised if that happened. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 23:12:43
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| Would makes sense, loses Mystra, probably loses Simbul, loses the girls he raised. Spellplague will be much harder on him then anyone. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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ajfurst
Acolyte
Australia
21 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 01:16:54
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Would makes sense, loses Mystra, probably loses Simbul, loses the girls he raised. Spellplague will be much harder on him then anyone.
Losing the Simbul and other sisters (if all gone) would be hard on him, but he lost 'His' Mystra in ToT. That'd he'd be bitter and more reclusive would make sense though. |
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tauster
Senior Scribe
Germany
399 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 09:24:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Of course, we only know that El's still around. We don't know how much he's changed.
I won't play in 4E Realms, and I probably won't buy the new FRCS. Still, I hope i NEVER hear anything about a Wingless Wonder (1) with a sparkling pipe that waddles around in Shadowdale and molests pretty girls!   
(1) See "Secrets of the Magister" and Dragon #40 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 15:38:04
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!!!! Someone has been talking!!!
tauster, you're right: you NEVER HEARD anything, I mean anything, about a certain Wingless Wonder with a sparkling pipe who waddles around Shadowdale molesting . . .
(I TOLD the old rip that it was time to vary his disguises! And all he did was stick out his tongue, shift into a Wingless Wonder covered with outsized breasts, and then slide back again. El, I told him, El dearest, they're not ALL as stupid as Zhents! They're going to catch on! But would he listen? Nooooooo!)
love,
THO |
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ShepherdGunn
Seeker
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 13:59:11
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Dear Lady,
Someone's always talking around here. Of course, if El turned into a Hooked Horror then no one would recognize him. As long as he did something with that pipe, of course.
*has a nice drink of eggnog in honor of El still being alive and moles... errr... kicking* |
"Man does not live by bread alone, likewise, blades and arrows aren't the only things that can kill him." |
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
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Dragon Features: Countdown to the Realms
