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I Am Not A Bear
Acolyte
Canada
14 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Jan 2008 : 21:34:08
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...in terms of Forgotten Realms, especially humans.
I was reading up on Piergeiron the Paladinson and using the information I came across, it states that he became the Open Lord of Waterdeep in 1314 DR and as of 1374 DR he was still in that postion. That's sixty years. Yet, in his descriptions, he's still described as tall, muscular with only slightly greying hair.
I couldn't find his exact birth year, but I'm assuming he had to be in his late 20s or early 30s when he assumed the role of the Open Lord. Thus, he should be well into his late 80s, early 90s by now.
What's the deal with aging in Forgotten Realms? How does it particularly apply to humans? Obviously, there are potions of longevity, spells, etc to maintain a youthful appearance and extend your lifespan, but I'm curious as to how it works on a fundamental basis.
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2008 : 21:40:02
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The quick answer is potions of Longevity.
Even if such does not exist in 3rd Edition they existed in 2nd and at least as far as Ed is concerned there are still available.
That in effect there could be 100s made before the age turned (into 3rd) and the powerful find them and use them as needed. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Karzak
Learned Scribe
196 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2008 : 21:41:55
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| Piergeiron's aging, it's been stated explicitly in various sources, is definitely slowed down/held off by magic. So he's probably not the best example to base this line of query on. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2008 : 21:48:08
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| Certain big-name characters have enjoyed the benefits of various longevity magics, even if we've never seen it in print. Ed once said that Mirt and Durnan, in particular, are much older than the 120 I had pointed out as a minimum age. Ed has wanted to tell those stories, but has never had the chance. |
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AlorinDawn
Learned Scribe
USA
313 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2008 : 21:51:54
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Piergeiron's use of potions of longevity are touched upon in the City of Splendors by Ed and Elaine.
The prolonged use of potions of longevity have risks to be sure. Prolonged use runs the risk of the potion reversing the effects of all previous potions of longevity taken, the end result in many cases is the drinker turns into a cloud of dust. In addition the effectiveness of healing (magical and mundane iirc) become progressively reduced after 13 or 14 such potions have been used. We see Piergeiron suffer from this very problem in The City of Splendors Novel.
Potion recipes also vary. This is important because some recipes will work for some folks metabolism, others react poorly or do not work at all. The knowledge of making these rare potions is CAREFULLY guarded and require some very rare and difficult to acquire ingredients.
Hope that helps |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2008 : 22:58:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Certain big-name characters have enjoyed the benefits of various longevity magics, even if we've never seen it in print. Ed once said that Mirt and Durnan, in particular, are much older than the 120 I had pointed out as a minimum age. Ed has wanted to tell those stories, but has never had the chance.
Indeed. 'Tis here, from March '04 --
"... I think Mirt and Durnan are both a trifle OLDER than 120. Still unpublished is the “essential Realmslore” short story in which they acquired as treasure certain drinkables that might be expressed in AD&D terms (the D&D game came along after I wrote the story) as slightly-variant Potions of Longevity. So, yes, they appear to be rather leathery/fat/worn-but-vigorous 50-ish males. The way the published Realms has turned out, the careers of Mirt and Durnan have been sadly neglected, but you will see their present-day selves adventuring together in my tale in the forthcoming Realms of Dragons anthology (end of 2004, I believe)."
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2008 : 01:02:57
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quote:
Originally posted by I Am Not A Bear
What's the deal with aging in Forgotten Realms? How does it particularly apply to humans?
I think it's fairly safe to say that--sans magic--humans in the Realms age much the same way as humans do in the real world. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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freyar
Learned Scribe
Canada
220 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2008 : 15:17:48
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| How about Halaster (before Expedition to Undermountain, I mean)? He's thousands of years old if I'm reading GHotR correctly, doesn't seem to be a Chosen, and doesn't seem to be undead. Shouldn't his luck with the potions have run out by now? |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2008 : 15:47:06
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| Halaster did not age while inside Undermountainas a result of the Undermountain's enchantments. He was also, unfortunately, crazy while in Undermountain. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
Edited by - Edain Shadowstar on 09 Jan 2008 15:49:15 |
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AlorinDawn
Learned Scribe
USA
313 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2008 : 16:01:22
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quote:
Originally posted by freyar
How about Halaster (before Expedition to Undermountain, I mean)? He's thousands of years old if I'm reading GHotR correctly, doesn't seem to be a Chosen, and doesn't seem to be undead. Shouldn't his luck with the potions have run out by now?
There is certainly more than one way to cheat the aging process. Potions are just the most well known. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2008 : 16:15:49
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quote:
Originally posted by AlorinDawn
There is certainly more than one way to cheat the aging process. Potions are just the most well known.
Correct.
I will also say that there are things the average person in the modern world has to prevent aging that the average Faerunian most likely doesn't. For example, do Faerunians have sunscreen? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2008 : 16:20:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I will also say that there are things the average person in the modern world has to prevent aging that the average Faerunian most likely doesn't.
There has to be... Otherwise, how can you explain Dick Clark? |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2008 : 16:25:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
There has to be... Otherwise, how can you explain Dick Clark?
Heh. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2008 : 16:33:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert:
There has to be... Otherwise, how can you explain Dick Clark?
I maintain Dick Clark is a robot sent from the future with the express purpose of Rockin' In every New Year in history.
That having been said, as has been said before, there are many methods available to slow or stop aging in the Realms. Potions of Longevity and perhaps a Periapt of Proof Against Aging are merely the most readily accessible to non-wizards. Methods such as lichdom, stasis clones, enchantments like those over Undermountain, Life Drains, etc. are not easily available to non-wizards and many are undesirable for alignment reasons. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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Stonwulfe
Seeker
Canada
81 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2008 : 16:55:27
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One of the problems with extremely long life in the Realms has been the prominence of these characters in Faerunian history, and their need to create/recreate new identities for themselves. A perfect example is the late Khelben Arunsun. The man has actual graves for his former identities scattered around the realms, with portals at each and between. Some, such as Elminster and Halaster, have become so noteworthy and powerful (some would argue mad) that they simply don't bother, instead going incognito when the need arises.
There are many prestige classes and classes (druid anyone?) that slow or negate the effects of aging, but not the actual aging process, having the caveat "the character still dies at his appointed time" or something to the effect. There are a few prestige classes (Mystic Wanderer of Magic of Faerun, and Dragon Disciple, from Magic of Eberron) that unnaturally extend the individual's life, or stop aging altogether, but this usually involves intervention by a higher power (draconic or deific in nature).
There are several questions that I have about the use of magic for the preservation of life.
- Since aging is the process of cell necrosis and replacement (with diminishing returns over time), if a magic user were to use gentle repose and permanency on himself, would he stop aging until the effects were dispelled?
- Can a Wish be used to grant immortality - without the obvious DM fun that comes of twisting poorly worded wishes - or extend the person's natural life without changing their base nature? (i.e. "I wish to have the lifespan of a dragon" without turning into a dragon, though I can't imagine why someone wouldn't want to be a dragon.)
- Can a person use Shapechange to permanently adopt a new form that enjoys a longer lifespan, without expiring at the pre-ordained time set out for them by the gods? (i.e. "I shapechange myself into a hound archon, so I don't age") |
Edited by - Stonwulfe on 09 Jan 2008 16:58:01 |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2008 : 17:33:37
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Speaking as a DM - these are all perfectly reasonable examples of how PC/NPC can achieve 'immortaility'.
However in the case of PC's the quest to find the potion and work out the proper wording of the wish and then complete the full, complicated, expensive and time consuming ritual to prepare yourself for the first stage of extended life is a campaign in itself.
Once you have the basics, then you can spend the time granted to you as a short extension to your current life, (the 5 year grace the first ritual has given you), to figure out how to really achieve a more long lasting slowing down of the ageing process, one that when you complete that ritual will give you an extra 100 years to learn the true meaning of immortality........
So no quick fix, but a series of challenges that will keep players busy for a long time.
Just my thoughts
Damian
quote:
Originally posted by Stonwulfe
[There are several questions that I have about the use of magic for the preservation of life.
- Since aging is the process of cell necrosis and replacement (with diminishing returns over time), if a magic user were to use gentle repose and permanency on himself, would he stop aging until the effects were dispelled?
- Can a Wish be used to grant immortality - without the obvious DM fun that comes of twisting poorly worded wishes - or extend the person's natural life without changing their base nature? (i.e. "I wish to have the lifespan of a dragon" without turning into a dragon, though I can't imagine why someone wouldn't want to be a dragon.)
- Can a person use Shapechange to permanently adopt a new form that enjoys a longer lifespan, without expiring at the pre-ordained time set out for them by the gods? (i.e. "I shapechange myself into a hound archon, so I don't age")
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So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2008 : 20:28:23
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| Besides.. who wants to see the seven sisters become wrinkled old hags. ;) |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Stonwulfe
Seeker
Canada
81 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2008 : 20:58:18
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| Yeah, no one wants to see Storm go wrinkly... not when she's... y'know... perfect. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2008 : 22:20:14
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| Just as Damian says: the answer to these as to most such questions is 'Yes, if...' and 'Yes, but...' |
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Akeri Rualuavain
Seeker
Canada
99 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2008 : 22:26:14
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Maybe I'm wong to compare that like this, but if we look in all the knowledge we have from medieval time, and even just a few hundred years from now. 60 years old was to be a real old chap. If I understand corectly all the history teacher I had in highschool, they all say that from now 40 was = to 60 now and same for the rest. 18 was to start to decline and 16 was to be in the flourish age...
Am I corect ? |
Sorry for my bad English, I'm french born
The courage to follow our dreams is the first step to achieve our destiny
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2008 : 22:35:31
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| More or less, but -- largely due to clerical Power -- folk in the Realms are better fed and less prone to disease and infant mortality than in Europe's Middle Ages. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2008 : 00:56:48
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quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
Once you have the basics, then you can spend the time granted to you as a short extension to your current life, (the 5 year grace the first ritual has given you), to figure out how to really achieve a more long lasting slowing down of the ageing process, one that when you complete that ritual will give you an extra 100 years to learn the true meaning of immortality........
Not a bad idea, given that immortality most likely isn't as wonderful as a lot of people tend to think it is (heck, even Elminster has acknowledged that more than once).
You should definitely be careful what you wish for in this case. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 10 Jan 2008 00:57:30 |
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Question regarding the process of aging...
