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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 15:46:44
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Hello, all. While I don't disagree that a lot of published detailing of Chessenta is "Ancient Greek-like," that is NOT how Ed detailed that region, or writes about it. He generated about six pages of lore that I have (as a player) and that the TSR designers had, back in the day, as their basis for detailing the region, and it says this:
Chessenta is wine-making and horse-breeding country, with very productive farms that more than support the folk who dwell on them. It is rolling, hilly country with many winding lanes and small farms: the ridges being scrub woodlands and vineyards because the soil is thin and gravel underlying it (glaciated eskers and drumlins), and the downlands (well-watered river lands) being verdant farms. Real-world comparisons are to be avoided for all of the usual reasons (mistaken assumptions leading to bad roleplaying, etc.), but if one has to choose, it would Piedmont, Tuscany, and northern Italy [small villages, small keeps, local "lords" ruling small areas, use of handfuls of mercenaries as warriors to back said lords], with "warm winters" about every ten years that echo the climate of mainland Greece and Macedonia.
In a GenCon panel and several discussions we players had with Ed, it is clear he thinks of this area far more like the condottoire era in Europe, if one must use real-world comparisons at all, and a lot less like hoplites and Sparta and Ancient Greece.
However, if it works for your campaign, being as it looks like detailed coverage of the countryside of the Realms has been at least derailed for the nonce, why not describe it as you have?
love,
THO |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 19:21:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Kamuraki
Also, in one of your recent novels, you hinted that Storm has... erm... dabbled in dalliances with the fairer sex. Anything more to that, or was she just toying with the dear queen of Cormyr?
I know Ed has mentioned here that Storm will make love to women as well as men. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 21:30:32
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hello, all.
...
In a GenCon panel and several discussions we players had with Ed, it is clear he thinks of this area far more like the condottoire era in Europe, if one must use real-world comparisons at all, and a lot less like hoplites and Sparta and Ancient Greece.
...
love,
THO
Now that's a period which is in my historical balliwick!
I was planning to set "The Champion's Belt" Age of Worms adventure (Dungeon 128) in Chessenta. To make the games more "Ed-like" would Ed recommend that I shift my thinking from Roman-style chariot racing and gladiatorial combat to horse racing as held annually in Sienna and to Renaissance-style combat, jousting at the quintain, (or some more specialized target), or orange throwing, crossbow shooting and archery? And football, too, perhaps? (For those unfamiliar with the Sienese Palio, this is a link to a page dedicated to it.)
All of which raises the question: in Ed's Forgotten Realms are chariot races ever held, and if so, where and by whom? Details, please! Also, would it be a typical (or at least not uncommon) practice for mage fairs to be held near annual trade fairs, festivals and tournaments, or are they usually far away from the muggles?
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Edited by - Jamallo Kreen on 05 Nov 2008 21:44:50 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 21:42:49
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Someone please ask Ed about the rumored "official" low down on Mystra's murder from Fractured Sky.....I haven't the heart to do it myself |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 22:33:02
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And the Blade Kingdoms (city-states) located around the Akanamere just scream out Greek City-states to me, even if culturally they are somewhat different* - with Chessenta being the 'real deal' (Ancient Greece a'la Faerûn), I think of them as the 'Asia Minor' {Anatolia} of the Realms. They are like all those 'lesser states' that we hardly hear anything about in history.
Doesn't Chessenta have gladitorial combat as well? 
*EDIT: I haven't read the novels featuring the Blade Kingdoms, but from what I gather the Italian pre-unification period is a pretty good likening, so this is on par with Ed's original (perhaps the author took that into account, and tried to at least make this secondary region a little more accurate?) |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Nov 2008 22:38:14 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 23:33:55
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hello, all. While I don't disagree that a lot of published detailing of Chessenta is "Ancient Greek-like," that is NOT how Ed detailed that region, or writes about it. He generated about six pages of lore that I have (as a player) and that the TSR designers had, back in the day, as their basis for detailing the region, and it says this:
Chessenta is wine-making and horse-breeding country, with very productive farms that more than support the folk who dwell on them. It is rolling, hilly country with many winding lanes and small farms: the ridges being scrub woodlands and vineyards because the soil is thin and gravel underlying it (glaciated eskers and drumlins), and the downlands (well-watered river lands) being verdant farms. Real-world comparisons are to be avoided for all of the usual reasons (mistaken assumptions leading to bad roleplaying, etc.), but if one has to choose, it would Piedmont, Tuscany, and northern Italy [small villages, small keeps, local "lords" ruling small areas, use of handfuls of mercenaries as warriors to back said lords], with "warm winters" about every ten years that echo the climate of mainland Greece and Macedonia.
In a GenCon panel and several discussions we players had with Ed, it is clear he thinks of this area far more like the condottoire era in Europe, if one must use real-world comparisons at all, and a lot less like hoplites and Sparta and Ancient Greece.
However, if it works for your campaign, being as it looks like detailed coverage of the countryside of the Realms has been at least derailed for the nonce, why not describe it as you have?
love,
THO
Wonderful!  And, for what it's worth, when Chessenta has briefly featured in my campaign, I tend to follow the bits Ed has provided here in his replies in the past, as my basis for running the region. I find that somewhat more appropriate given what other material I've written for surrounding countries/cities.
Additionally, we've some previous lore from Ed on the conception of Chessenta in the Realms material:-
"OLD EMPIRES was ably written by Scott Bennie, who has since updated it ‘for free’ on the Net (scribes, please help me with where it can now be found). I had nothing directly to do with the writing of that product, although my sketchy lore-notes were provided, and of course all the place-names and geography of Chessenta, Unther, and Mulhorand (plus their general overall character and relationships to each other) were part of my original (pre-publication) Realms. You’re quite right: given my druthers, I’d never have put elements so recognizably “real-world historical” into the Realms, but their inclusion was inevitable given TSR’s plans for the Realms to be the “home” of 2nd Edition AD&D: it had to embrace Arabian Adventures (the working title for Al-Qadim), Oriental Adventures, Sea Adventures, Arctic Adventures, Lost World/Livingstone/Indiana Jones (Chult), Conquering the New World (Maztica), and so on. I think Scott did a superb job, and my only regret is that we’ve never examined Chessenta’s city-states in proper detail and depth: it could have been an absolutely fascinating, maximum-freedom-to-plug-in-commerical-modules setting for Realms-based campaigns" |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 05 Nov 2008 23:39:37 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2008 : 01:27:14
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| I'd link to that site, but I can't seem to get to it. The site is either hosed or gone. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2008 : 02:09:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd link to that site, but I can't seem to get to it. The site is either hosed or gone.
The 'Hall of Hero' website was hosting a slightly revised copy of the "Old Empires" PDF by Scott Bennie for a time. I don't think it's been stored anywhere else online though, which is unfortunate. The bits Scott updated certainly have enriched most of my campaigns set in the region.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2008 : 06:48:21
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd link to that site, but I can't seem to get to it. The site is either hosed or gone.
The 'Hall of Hero' website was hosting a slightly revised copy of the "Old Empires" PDF by Scott Bennie for a time. I don't think it's been stored anywhere else online though, which is unfortunate. The bits Scott updated certainly have enriched most of my campaigns set in the region.
Yeah, that's the site I was looking for. I have that file somewhere on my hard drive... Someone should contact him, and see if he'd allow Big Al to host it.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2008 : 07:09:59
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| I actually chatted with him via email back in January. I suppose I could try the address again and see whether it's still active. At least that way we'll know whether he'll allow it to be stored here at Candlekeep. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2008 : 14:44:31
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I actually chatted with him via email back in January. I suppose I could try the address again and see whether it's still active. At least that way we'll know whether he'll allow it to be stored here at Candlekeep.
I used the internet archive website last night to load the page, grabbing those files again, and finding an email address on the site for him. Let me know if you need any of that. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2008 : 15:08:04
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That's actually where I got his original email address from.
I've also got another address to an account his uses/used on a forum I once frequented. I think it's best to try both. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2008 : 15:22:38
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Wanders in....
*Hmmm whos scroll is this again? I coulda swore there was one for Ed somewhere* |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2008 : 19:53:15
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Ashe, my "Deep Source" says: not yet.
Reason for the delay: unknown.
I'm watching eagerly, too . . .
love,
THO
Anything more recent on this, milady THO?
By way of a question for Ed, getting this thread back on track and related to the last "real" question: Now that we know what Ed's Chessenta is like, what about Ed's Mulhorand and Unther? If this was already answered elsewhere, my apologies; searching for replies gets frustrating when one is dealing with an 80+ page thread, given the way the CK search function works (and yes, I have already politely asked Alaundo for improvements in this function for CK 2.0). I have taken to simply scanning through the most recent few pages in scrolls like this one (now that I have asked a predominance of my major questions), just checking for answers, every couple of days.
Just a suggestion: If Ed could eliminate that long commute of his, he'd have more time to churn out Realmslore... but do you move Ed closer to the library, or the library closer to Ed? It's about the same amount of work regardless, but we could probably assemble a ready labour force through Candlekeep... Okay, enough scatterbrained posting from me. Any more questions for Ed out there? As opposed to theories on contact information for others? |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2008 : 23:11:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
By way of a question for Ed, getting this thread back on track and related to the last "real" question: Now that we know what Ed's Chessenta is like, what about Ed's Mulhorand and Unther? If this was already answered elsewhere, my apologies...
While I'm sure Ed will have more, I'll bring up this little tidbit from a previous reply:-
"Correct. I wanted Mulhorand to be a land of dusky-skinned Set worshippers, because I postulated the worship of Set to have spread through the planar links from earth. When it was developed in print by other designers than me, it had become “Egyptians from our real-world Earth resettle in the Realms, and bring all their gods and worship with them,” so there is direct modeling. Not by me, and it’s not how I would have handled Mulhorand, but that’s what other designers did, and they did it well."
quote:
...; searching for replies gets frustrating when one is dealing with an 80+ page thread, given the way the CK search function works (and yes, I have already politely asked Alaundo for improvements in this function for CK 2.0). I have taken to simply scanning through the most recent few pages in scrolls like this one (now that I have asked a predominance of my major questions), just checking for answers, every couple of days.
You can use the compiled reply files, or even download the PDFs [see my sig]. That makes searching for particular replies/references somewhat easier.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 06 Nov 2008 23:12:35 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2008 : 01:20:37
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| Thanks Sage! |
Edited by - Jakk on 07 Nov 2008 01:21:00 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2008 : 05:37:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Kamuraki
Also, in one of your recent novels, you hinted that Storm has... erm... dabbled in dalliances with the fairer sex. Anything more to that, or was she just toying with the dear queen of Cormyr?
I know Ed has mentioned here that Storm will make love to women as well as men.
-Thats my kinda girl! 
BRIMSTONE  |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe
Israel
352 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2008 : 07:33:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Kamuraki:
Also, in one of your recent novels, you hinted that Storm has... erm... dabbled in dalliances with the fairer sex. Anything more to that, or was she just toying with the dear queen of Cormyr?
Really? I never noticed this. What novel are you talking about? |
"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.
"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."
"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'." |
Edited by - Menelvagor on 07 Nov 2008 07:34:36 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2008 : 01:09:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Menelvagor
quote:
Originally posted by Kamuraki:
Also, in one of your recent novels, you hinted that Storm has... erm... dabbled in dalliances with the fairer sex. Anything more to that, or was she just toying with the dear queen of Cormyr?
Really? I never noticed this. What novel are you talking about?
In all seriousness, every novel she has appeared in has at least a dash of innuendo to that! And I am sure Ed has made arious remarks about it in his scrolls. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 08 Nov 2008 01:10:51 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2008 : 20:03:39
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Jakk,
I understand that lawyers are involved in a delay.
Menelvagor and the Red Walker, Storm's affectionate lovemaking to partners of both genders is indeed "fact." Not emphasized in published Realmslore due to the various ethical codes followed down the years, of course, but "there" nonetheless.
love,
THO |
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Agnitio Veridicus
Acolyte
13 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2008 : 20:46:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
With respect to Question 12: Halaster was probably already insane when (as Hilather) he was released from stasis in 128 DR; he entered stasis in -2488 DR (GHotR for both dates)... and it would be interesting to know the details of that too. Why did he enter stasis, and was it his choice or was he forced into it? (Call this Question 12a or Question 13, as you see fit.)
I'm reading a backlog of lore, and apologize if this issue has already been addressed for you.
If I remember correctly from past reading, Halaster began to lose his sanity when he created a magic that allowed him to project multiple instances of himself within the confines of Undermountain. It was simply too much for a human mind to handle, and it slowly drove him mad.
Halaster voluntarily entered stasis after his homeland was destroyed. His homeland being the Imaskari Empire. Stasis is a good way for a powerful mage to hide when incarnations of the Mulhorandi pantheon are hunting down and slaying every Imaskari mage they can find. :) It's the ultimate way to "lay low for awhile".
-- Agnitio
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Longtime Lurker
Seeker
51 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2008 : 21:09:21
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Dear Lady THO and Ed,
Are there any updates on Vangerdahast? His "draconic defense league" or whatever it is (numbers, lair where, watching whom, attitudes towards specific nobles, particular Obarskyrs, etc.), his own mortality/longevity, his awareness of the Shades or other perils, any aims on his part?
If I move a Realms campaign along a century, is Vangey still alive?
Thanks! |
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A Gavel
Seeker
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2008 : 21:11:39
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Dear Ed and THO,
I have a question regarding judges (Black Robes). How are they selected and trained, in Cormyr and in Waterdeep? Is there a review/firing process? Retraining? Quiet unofficial "grading," to decide which judges handle which trials?
Thank you in advance. |
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Broken Helm
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2008 : 21:15:30
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Lovely Lady THO and Ed,
A question arises about storage of large ships and small boats in winter, along the Dragon Coast (Cormyr and shoreline villages everywhere). Presumably ice would crush the hulls of those left in the water, so . . . just dragged ashore and covered? Sheds or roofs built over them to keep the worst of the winter storms from harming them? Drydocks or boathouses? Small boats brought into barns or stables?
Thanks. |
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Sage of Stars
Seeker
USA
59 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2008 : 21:17:03
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Ed, there have been rumors in certain publishing circles that you have been writing Christmas stories every year, and plan to publish a book of them. True? Or would you rather not say, yet?
Thank you, either way. |
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A Publishing Lackey
Seeker
74 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2008 : 21:18:29
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| Hmm. I have heard those rumors, too, and would very much like to hear a reply! |
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Malcolm
Learned Scribe
242 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2008 : 21:22:49
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Ed, please forgive me if this is too "forward"/presumptuous to ask (and tell me so), but I would like to know: would you like to hear (here, in this thread) from readers requesting lore in your future novels about the fate of this character or the descendants of that one, or even flashback scenes?
There are some Realms characters I would very, very much like to "see" more of, even if just a glimpse or two. I want to ask about specific characters but don't want to annoy you, and I seem to remember that in earlier years in this thread you or THO occasionally asked what we fans wanted to see.
So . . . ?
Thank you very much. (Hope you'll say yes.  ) |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2008 : 21:34:40
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Well met, all!
I'm halfway through Unclean, and the description of the excavated city in the Sunrise Mountains really intrigued me. If it's not shielded by an NDA, will Ed please tell us about the civilization which excavated fortresses and this city, and, if it's relevent, what their relations were with the batrachi(?) who built Delhumide?
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2008 : 23:07:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Agnitio Veridicus
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
With respect to Question 12: Halaster was probably already insane when (as Hilather) he was released from stasis in 128 DR; he entered stasis in -2488 DR (GHotR for both dates)... and it would be interesting to know the details of that too. Why did he enter stasis, and was it his choice or was he forced into it? (Call this Question 12a or Question 13, as you see fit.)
I'm reading a backlog of lore, and apologize if this issue has already been addressed for you.
If I remember correctly from past reading, Halaster began to lose his sanity when he created a magic that allowed him to project multiple instances of himself within the confines of Undermountain. It was simply too much for a human mind to handle, and it slowly drove him mad.
Halaster voluntarily entered stasis after his homeland was destroyed. His homeland being the Imaskari Empire. Stasis is a good way for a powerful mage to hide when incarnations of the Mulhorandi pantheon are hunting down and slaying every Imaskari mage they can find. :) It's the ultimate way to "lay low for awhile".
-- Agnitio
Thanks for the response! No, I had not had this one answered; one less thing on Ed's "to do" list is never a bad thing. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Questions for Ed Greenwood (2008)
Topic Locked
