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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Oct 2008 : 05:21:04
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Your bad....  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2008 : 07:01:03
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I have a question concerning Ironfang Keep upon the Moonsea. Well, several regarding the structure in Ed's own game...
Did Ed Create it for his own use?
Since it has been given to us that there is a cult there by BRJ and that is the Canon now...can Ed tell us what HE had planned for Ironfang Keep?
Question for THO: have you and the Knights ever been to Ironfang Keep? What happened there?
Any information on Ironfang Keep would be great!
Myself...I had it in my mind long ago that it actually was held by a cabal of secretive wizards. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2008 : 16:10:52
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Hi, all.
Dalor, I can tell you that Ironfang Keep was part of Ed's original (pre-TSR, pre-publication) Realms, and that it was indeed the home of a cabal of powerful (plane-hopping, and trading goods from plane to plane) wizards.
That latter feature was the very thing that TSR's early directors pounced on, considering it a great setup for a computer game, and that trammeling is why it's been NDA ever since. It is STILL under a NDA, because that computer game license is still active (hasn't run out yet), so I don't know why anyone was allowed to write lore about it (is the cult in "official" writing?). Hmm.
Tell me more.
love,
THO |
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Na-Gang
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2008 : 19:10:57
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VERRRRYYYYYY interesting. Ed checked on that particular NDA at GenCon (this year, as in: two months ago) and it was still in force (with most of a year left to run), so either someone has received quiet but official assurances that nothing will be done with Ironfang Keep before the license runs out . . . or someone at Wizards doesn't know what licenses are still out there (which will possibly annoy someone at Hasbro no end).
Let's hope, for everyone's sake, it's the former.
Sigh.
love to all,
THO |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2008 : 19:22:30
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I was wondering about that Ironfang Keep article and the NDA situation myself. I, too, am interested in the Keep and its workings. THO, can Ed confirm or deny that the Keep presented in that article is (more or less) the Keep that he originally envisioned? One year left on that NDA, you say? So they are mortal... interesting...  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2008 : 19:23:02
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
VERRRRYYYYYY interesting. Ed checked on that particular NDA at GenCon (this year, as in: two months ago) and it was still in force (with most of a year left to run), so either someone has received quiet but official assurances that nothing will be done with Ironfang Keep before the license runs out . . . or someone at Wizards doesn't know what licenses are still out there (which will possibly annoy someone at Hasbro no end).
Let's hope, for everyone's sake, it's the former.
Sigh.
love to all,
THO
Well, let's ask.
Brian, anything you can tell us? (cross-posted to Brian's scroll) |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2008 : 23:11:41
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I shouldn't really be guessing in Ed's thread, but considering Brian is the 'New Kid on the Block', I doubt very much he was aware of the NDA.
Ergo, its not really his fault - it would be the fault of whoever gave him the go-ahead to write that. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2008 : 01:55:45
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Didn't mean to open the can of purple worms...but I just thought I would ask about Ed's personal game and the Ironfang Keep area.
Did you guys go there THO? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2008 : 02:08:38
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We went to Mulmaster, executed a fighting withdrawal, and had already been warned away from Ironfang Keep. Nevertheless, we got warned away again, by a spectral image of a floating (standing on air) wizard who cast quite a few spectacular battle spells in our direction (and succeeded in cowing us with the old: "If he can waste multiple meteor swarms and prismatic fists and the like on us, what's he got ready if we stick around to fight him? Yikes!" strategy).
Jakk, that particular NDA has a shelf life because licensing agreements have specific lengths, and one must pay to renew them (if an option to do so exists, and the owner of the property being licensed is amenable). Not all NDAs, by any means, so tidily "expire." This one may not, or it may already secretly have been cancelled, or: ?
love,
THO |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2008 : 02:14:25
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Hello again, all. I bring ye all new Realmslore; this time Ed tackles a June of this year query from Kuje, to whit: “Heya Ed, We haven't had a topic about spellfire in a couple years and so I'm asking, since we have a thread about it currently on Keep, in the Sages of Realmslore section.
What happens to a spellfire wielder if they leave Realmspace. Basically the thread has boiled down to this: do they lose their powers since they are no longer connected to the Weave and raw magic or can they find an alternate source of power to tap into to use their powers much like an arcane or divine caster can while on the outer planes....”
Ed replies:
Spellfire use is the ability to tap into the raw natural powers of a place (heat currents and flows, winds, water flows, gravity, et cetera), whereas the Weave is ONE way of “seeing” and so controlling (usually through spells) those same natural powers.
Therefore, a spellfire wielder departing Realmspace and entering a “new” world would NOT lose their powers, because their powers don’t need the Weave (and are in fact really an alternative to the Weave). However, their powers could well change from what they could do in the Realms, as they are now calling on the powers of a different environment.
(Note that spellfire can “drink” and use the power of memorized spells and magic item charges that were created using the Weave; these things are like batteries of stored power to a spellfire wielder, once they learn how to use spellfire to tap (drain) them to power spellfire effects (usually: convert a spell with a specific effect into the scouring destructive fire of spellfire, but also possibly converting a spell into healing energy, or energy used to recharge another magic item).
So saith Ed, creator of spellfire. Who apologizes for the delay in getting to this question. He also hinted to me that some of althen artren’s queries may be up next.
love to all,
THO
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createvmind
Senior Scribe
490 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2008 : 04:10:58
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Hello All,
Hope this question is more likely to be answered, I know I ask many odd ones, "How do the towns along the Trade Way gather enough water to maintian themselves, specifically the towns and Inns between Daggerford and Baldur's Gate that are not near rivers?"
Thanks |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2008 : 04:54:09
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quote:
Originally posted by createvmind
Hello All,
Hope this question is more likely to be answered, I know I ask many odd ones, "How do the towns along the Trade Way gather enough water to maintian themselves, specifically the towns and Inns between Daggerford and Baldur's Gate that are not near rivers?"
Thanks
I believe I can answer this one.
If not of course I will be corrected.
The maps do not include stearms or other small flows, there also likely are springs or wells developed.
No community grows without water, few are established without a water supply in the first place. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2008 : 16:29:38
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Bingo! Kentinal is entirely correct. From playing in the "home" Realms campaign with Ed as DM, I can assure createvmind and all scribes that the entire Dalelands area, and the Tesh valley, is "well watered." There are springs everywhere, ample aquifers (a shallow "dug well" [as opposed to drilled, and deeper] sited almost anywhere will readily and repeatedly fill with water, never going dry), streams and ponds and little bogs galore, and thick woodlands wherever human tilling and woodcutting, forest fires, and other factors haven't thinned things out. "Water gathering" isn't a problem.
love to all,
THO |
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Sage of Stars
Seeker
USA
59 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2008 : 03:19:53
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Dear Ed and THO,
I have heard rumors that Ed has an entire unpublished Realms novel in his possession, that he wrote either before TSR bought the Realms or just after Spellfire, that stars (or includes) Mirt the Moneylender.
Is this true? If so, will it ever see publication?
Thank you. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2008 : 03:22:52
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Ho ho! Off that goes to Ed; I wonder what reply will be forthcoming . . .
(Ahem)
Hello again, all. As promised, I bear words of Realmslore from Ed of the Greenwood, this time pertaining to the first three questions asked by scribe althen artren in a post of many queries made in this thread back on June 22nd of this year. I have reposted them, with Ed’s answers interspersed, and then appended a followup question (June 24th, made in this thread) by Jamallo Kreen.
First up, althen artren:
“Do elves have a prophecy about resurrection in the future?
I don't understand why they are so deadly when it comes
to the disturbance of their dead, like getting old magic items just to help them survive the present (especially ones they despise like the Aryvandaar dead).”
Ed replies:
Elves have an instinctive “tie to the land,” or desire to live in attunement with the natural life cycles of the landscape. The presence of their dead (and to a lesser extent, burial items and commonplace items left behind in their ruins) “roots” them in the landscape, “guaranteeing” them, they believe, an ever-increasing importance within a land, as an ever-more integral part of that land. It’s an “all-People” thing, not just a “my family” or “my sub-race” or “my clan” feeling.
Most elven elders (the young tend not to want to think about such things, just as most young humans prefer to enjoy life rather than thinking all that much about death) believe that the dead of the People (elves) should be left to rest where they are, just as fallen trees should rot down and serve as part of the endless cycle of life. Their presence makes all elves more important and powerful in a region, and worthy of being so, whereas if the dead are torn up and eradicated, “the roots are gone” and elven legitimacy and progress towards greater achievement are lost with them.
Burned elves are honored dead like any other fallen, but if elves aren’t infested with burrowing worms or an devouring growth dangerous to the living or to other elf corpses, they shouldn’t be cremated after death, but buried so as to (eventually) rot.
Please note that when I write “left to rest where they are,” I DON’T mean “buried where they fell,” I mean left where other elves buried them. SOME elves, in particular places and times, site elven burials almost the same way gardeners place specific seeds or plants in a garden, locating the elven corpses so as to “anchor” and “carpet” a particular area of (usually forest) land to maximize elven ties to, and therefore influence, there. Most elves, in elder times, specifically believed that elven deities could manifest and work magic with more power in areas where elven burials were plentiful, and that this effect was magnified if burials were “proper.” They disagreed, from time to time and place to place, over just what “proper” meant, but all of them would have agreed that a deliberately and reverently-buried elf corpse was “better” for such purposes than an elf who simply collapsed and died (or was slain) alone in a particular spot. In other words, deliberate burials aid the gods more than the strewn dead of a battlefield.
althen artren posts:
“In the fiction, we see instances of prophecy or future omens through the eyes of characters and deities having foreknowledge of events. How have used this in light of deities having "all-knowing" sphere of expanded awareness. Is seeing the future unrelated to the Weave? I ask because I think about Blackstaff and his visions and the female good drow god whose name I cannot spell (stupid lack of spellcheck on this forum).”
Ed replies:
In the Realms, gods “dream” of various possible futures; they CANNOT infallibly see the future, though many have from time to time claimed otherwise. “Seeing the future” (really visualizing various possible futures, somewhat like E.E. ‘Doc’ Smith’s Arisians had a Visualization of the Cosmic All in the classic Lensman series of sf novels) is tied to being able to sense and “read” the flows of natural energies, something of the thoughts of other intelligent beings, and one’s own judgments and assessments of power struggles and factions and other factors (and how they’ll affect each other in the future). The Weave is one way to access those energy flows, but there are many others.
So NO god can see the future with complete clarity and reliability. There is some evidence that while certain deities (perhaps including Eilistraee) can see their own ultimate fates fairly well, others cannot, by their very nature (Mask or Leira, who cannot help but deceive even themselves, or Silvanus, who can never be certain whether he is seeing this next natural cycle of seasons, or another cycle from the past or future) or due to their sanity or lack of same (Cyric).
I’m going to add my standard caution here: mortals (yes, that includes game designers, gamers, and Realms fiction writers) can never be sure that ANYTHING written about the gods is true, or anything approaching the “whole truth.” We simply have no way of knowing how accurate anything we think we “know” about the god is, because the gods deceive us, their priests and servitor creatures deceive us, and even what we directly and personally witness, we may not properly understand (or even realize we’re not seeing all of it, or understanding it correctly).
I designed the Realms this way, as I’ve explained elsewhere before, because if predestination (as in: reliable prophecies, such as “You are the One! The One foretold, who will rise out of the humble village of X with seven fingers on his left hand, and blah blah blah”) exists, heroism goes out the window. You can’t take credit for your adventuring successes, because the gods (or someone) decided on the script long beforehand, and you just followed it, even if you didn’t realize you were following it, or someone [even a god] denies you were following it. You can’t have the prophecies work AND have true freedom of action, randomness, and therefore personal achievement.
I know many authors (and game designers) gloss over this or refuse to think the logic through (or accept the logic), but I don’t. (And it’s frankly always puzzled me that if I could reason this through and discuss it with my parents and others at age seven, long before there was a D&D game or a published Realms, why some other, much older folks don’t “get it.” I’ve taken it to several weighty professional philosophers over the years and asked for logic chains that escape this conundrum, and the only way any of them can see out of it, apart from Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle, is to deny any casuality [that cause and effect relationships exist] - - which is a stand that a philosopher may be able to take, but the rest of us, who have to live in the real world, can’t cling to unless we leave “common sense” behind.)
althen artren posts:
“In -1720 DR, Netherese wizards arrive in blasted Uvaeren die within 2 years of uncovering a hidden library cache and setting off defenses. Is this a pointer to the Barrowfields in Mistledale?”
Ed replies:
No. It’s something else, to whit: NDA!!!
(Sorry.)
Although the Barrowfields CAN be assumed to have their own defenses, and I have revealed elsewhere and elsewhen that a Worm That Walks dwells in one of the barrows, actively observing life unfolding around and reaching out to exploit those who come within reach.
Here, as promised, is Jamallo Kreen’s question (Ed’s reply to althen artren’s first question, above, also serves to answer J K here):
“I must echo the request for information on why the elves are so fussy about their dead and the tombs of the same. If elves can't ordinarily be resurrected, why are they concerned about people mucking about in the ancestral tombs (excluding, -- of course! -- the ones with Bad Things sealed away in them)? Why do they even bury things with their dead? There must be some powerful reason for protecting their ancestral tombs if some are willing to become baelnorns. Why not let some adventurer plunder old elven tombs if he promises not to animate any of the dead?”
And there you have it. Ed’s replies to a root matter of elven (eladrin, I suppose, for 4e gamers) lore. From the creator of Eilistraee, the Realms, and for that matter, the Turtle Soup spell. 
love to all,
THO
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2008 : 07:36:01
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Just to reiterate what THO (not that she needs it) and Kentinel have said - the FR maps only contain the MAJOR geographic phenomena (and important locales), and like any world map, leave out 99% of the details. Not only are the Realms covered with thousands of small waterways and tiny woodlands, but there are a large number of small swamps, bogs, villages, lakes, hills, etc, etc... just about everywhere.
And wherever a DM happens to need them to be. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Oct 2008 07:36:34 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2008 : 15:31:42
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A little bird (no, not Ed; he's anything but "little;" this particular bird is American, and dwells very near a seacoast) has told me there will soon be a major announcement regarding the Realms. Scribes, keep eyes peeled . . .
love to all,
THO |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2008 : 17:52:43
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Well met!
The latest batch of answers was quite ... interesting. Some time ago a question of mine about the dreams of gods was deflected by Otiluke's Invincible NDA Screen. Will we be hearing more from Ed about the dreams of the gods?
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2008 : 17:57:28
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
A little bird (no, not Ed; he's anything but "little;" this particular bird is American, and dwells very near a seacoast) has told me there will soon be a major announcement regarding the Realms. Scribes, keep eyes peeled . . .
love to all,
THO
here or at wizards |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2008 : 20:55:33
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Hmm, probably at Wizards, though the little bird lives near the seacoast where the sun rises, not the one whereover the sun sets . . .
love,
THO |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2008 : 20:59:27
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An east coast wizards warbler?
My that's a rare species indeed. Any clues as to when the announcement shall be made? |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2008 : 22:41:24
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| Rare? I wasn't even aware that such a species existed. Mind you, I learn new things about the Realms every day, even without the 4e material... |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2008 : 23:06:35
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OK, I have a question for the Sage Most Knowledgable (related to lore 3e and before):
Since the Realms is polytheistic in the sense that many people worship many deities, often equally (I may be wrong here), and not just that there are many different deities to worship, what happens to the souls of those who worship many deities in life, and not just one (this confuses me, because often in the novels worship comes in the form that the individual worships one specific deity of the many deities available; something that I like to think of "monotheistic polytheism if you please). It seems unfair that they would stuck in with either the Faithless or the False. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2008 : 00:00:13
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Hi, all.
HawkinstheDM, here's a quote from Ed's long-ago lore notes (sent to TSR back in 1987, I believe, after the "first flood" of Realms documents):
In the Realms, souls of dying humans (if not prevented from "drifting" by magic) go to the deity they are formally dedicated or bound to (their "patron deity"), if any.
Failing that, they go to the deity they were serving (performing a task, service, penance, or geas for), or obeying the clergy of, at the time of death.
Failing that, they go to the deity they have MOST served (worshipped, made offerings to, and participated in the rituals of) in life, if the did so deliberately (i.e. not if duped or if believing they were actually venerating another deity).
Only those who have renounced (directly, by word or resolve or in dreams, not necessarily in public before clergy, or by desecrating an altar or temple or repudiating clergy, though these "count" if not opposed by resolve, too) all faiths are considered "Faithless." Note: this does NOT mean not "believing in" the gods, this means not accepting that their influence is worthwhile or should extend to the person's self, or that their clergy should be obeyed.
In all cases except those dedicated to a patron deity (which obviously includes all clergy, paladins, hermits, and sworn servants) and those who perish while serving a deity, any greater god may decide, for the deity's own purposes, to force the drifting soul into another sort of body (reincarnation: rebirth as another species) or to be reborn as an innocent new human (a babe who remembers nothing of a previous life until future trauma, dreams, or the shock of polymorph or other magical contact "restores" some memories).
In the case of the dedicated and those who perish while serving a deity, only the deity they are dedicated to (regardless of deity type/status) can cause this reincarnation or rebirth (deity's choice), and can choose if the mortal is reborn knowing nothing of their previous life, or some important things (such as, ahem, which deity they are devoted to) of their previous life, with more memories to automatically begin to return to them, later in life.
Please note that there are magics that can ruin minds, making rebirth automatically "innocent" or even impossible, and there are magics that can limit the influence of deities on drifting spirits (such as the location of the dying person inside a consecrated temple - - not shrine - - of another, opposed deity). Deities who customarily work together (Mystra and Azuth, Silvanus and Eldath, et cetera) will never block the influence of a "friendly" deity for such purposes.
My intent in the home Realms campaign is that death (where raise dead magics are not involved) can be a great setback in an adventuring career, but not a total loss of character experience, but I appreciate that a publisher doing business in a strongly "literal" Christian marketplace may wish to handle such things differently, or omit rules mention of them altogether. That call must be yours.
So saith Ed, all those years ago. Obviously, slade (Dale Hensen) took a different tack when writing Realmspace, but I recall some Realms designers and editors saying at a GenCon not long after its publication that parts of that product were "non-canon" and so DMs should feel "very free, more even than when we just talk about the rules being guidelines" to ignore information on the afterlife that didn't fit with their own concepts, for the particular campaign.
I hope this is of help. A ticklish subject to some, obviously, and one hopes that mere game material will not cause dispute or upset among gamers except in terms of game utility and self-consistency.
love to all,
THO |
Edited by - The Hooded One on 24 Oct 2008 00:02:52 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2008 : 00:25:35
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hmm, probably at Wizards, though the little bird lives near the seacoast where the sun rises, not the one whereover the sun sets . . .
love,
THO
Do tell--I am an amateur orinthologist. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2008 : 00:57:36
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Obviously, slade (Dale Hensen) took a different tack when writing Realmspace, but I recall some Realms designers and editors saying at a GenCon not long after its publication that parts of that product were "non-canon" and so DMs should feel "very free, more even than when we just talk about the rules being guidelines" to ignore information on the afterlife that didn't fit with their own concepts, for the particular campaign.
Were the afterlife bits the only non-canon parts, or were there others? Because as much as I like Spelljammer and that particular product, I don't like it nearly as much from an FR standpoint. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2008 : 01:16:32
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Heh. Wooly, I recall audience members asking more than a few questions at that seminar, trying to get the panelists (TSR staffers all) to be more specific, but no one would get specific (obviously under orders not to; I recall some of them looking along the table at Bruce Heard, obviously to get signals from him as to how far they could go and what they could say). So I'm afraid I can't get more specific, because they didn't. Sorry.
love,
THO |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2008 : 01:39:20
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I have several d20 books about the fiends and the Bad Places of the afterlife (e.g. Hell) and am curious if Ed makes allowances for the selling of one's soul to a Bad Thing, who may then process it or reprocess it into a minor demon or devil (or have it for lunch, to the total undoing of said soul)?
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Questions for Ed Greenwood (2008)
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