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Originally posted by Kuje

I received and replied. :)

Thanks btw.

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Originally posted by The Hooded One

Kuje, I just found Ed's Purple Lady e-mail to you in Hamilton White's backfiles, and forwarded it to you (the "rochester.rr" account). Is this still an active account for you? Should I send it to the hotmail one in your Candlekeep profile instead, or- -?
love,
THO

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Originally posted by createvmind

Any phoenix creatures in Chult, any region where they may be found if one was seeking?

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Originally posted by The Sage

Neat. Any chance you can soon shift this reply over to my account, Kuje? I'd like to try and include it in the next "reply compilation update" I've got ready to send off to Alaundo.

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Originally posted by Kuje

There's no need. :) See my post in Fillow's thread.

And sorry again THO for making you look for stuff that far back when I had included it.

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Originally posted by The Sage

Neat. Any chance you can soon shift this reply over to my account, Kuje? I'd like to try and include it in the next "reply compilation update" I've got ready to send off to Alaundo.

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Originally posted by createvmind

Ed do Red Wizards occasionally just decide they don't want to play the game anymore so go elsewhere and let hair grow our tattoo's?

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Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen

Hmmm ... Jakk, I don't like American football (watered-down rugby!), but I am interested in having Ed present us with rules for some of the common physical games played in the Realms. Trying to comprehend the rules to British Bulldog last week made me appreciate just how vital it is to have detailed rules to a game. Dismissing something as a "ball game" isn't particularly satisfying: in the saga of Egil Skallagrimson, for example, he first makes his debut as a violent proto-viking by killing one of his playmates in a dispute during a "ball game." What was it? How was it played? Inquiring readers want to know, but alas, there are precious few clues in the saga itself. It would be nice if we had rules to games in the Realms so that we could roleplay characters doing something besides killing sentient beings to take their belongings.

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Originally posted by Icelander

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Originally posted by createvmind

Ed do Red Wizards occasionally just decide they don't want to play the game anymore so go elsewhere and let hair grow our tattoo's?

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I'm sure Ed can give you a much fuller answer, but I've seen several examples of exiled or fled Red Wizards in published Realmslore.

There was a pirate outside Aglarond/Altumbel, for one thing, and then there was the man in the Mage in the Iron Mask. I wouldn't be surprised if more than one reclusive sage or hedge wizard with a mysterious past turned out to have worn the crimson and come out second best in some struggle where there was no prize for almost succeeding. Thay is not famous for the mercy shown to those who displease the Zulkirs, but compared to what happens to those who reach too high and falter in that cruel land, it is but as a lover's touch.

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Originally posted by Jakk



(snip)

And on a related note that's actually on-topic, I too would be interested in rules for games (athletic and otherwise) in the Realms. The history of the Obarskyrs mentions chess... is it the same as our game in terms of specific rules, or only in concept?

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The new Realms is an Abeiration of the old Realms.

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Originally posted by The Red Walker

THO and Ed: What is the reason behind Vangerdahast's little grudge with Elminster?

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Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart

Wasn't Vangey an apprentice of El's waaaaaay back in the day as well?

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by The Red Walker

THO and Ed: What is the reason behind Vangerdahast's little grudge with Elminster?

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I'm sure that more than a little of it is the simple fact that El just pops in, does his "meddling", and pops back out again. He's playing without permission on Vangey's turf, and has no doubt interfered with a plan or two of Vangey's.

It prolly also makes Vangerdahast feel inferior, since an outsider so obviously feels free to wander in and play his own games -- and Vangey can't do jack about it.

Also, Vangey likes to know everything that's going on. Elminster is a wild card, as far as Vangey is concerned -- and he doesn't like wild cards. And Elminster has prolly dealt with more than one threat that Vangey didn't know about, which isn't going to make a control freak feel good about the job he's doing.

And this part is pure speculation... But Vangey may also be jealous of Elminster. El is more powerful, has a lot more irons in the fire, knows more, and -- perhaps the biggest thing of all -- has a personal relationship with Mystra. And he juggles all that just as readily, if not more so, than Vangey does with the myriad plots and conspiracies in just Cormyr.

Of course, all of this might just be additional reasoning, on top of something else. So I'm going to be looking forward to Ed's answer, too. I've wondered about that grudge more than once, myself.

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Originally posted by Icelander
I'm sure Ed can give you a much fuller answer, but I've seen several examples of exiled or fled Red Wizards in published Realmslore.

There was a pirate outside Aglarond/Altumbel, for one thing, and then there was the man in the Mage in the Iron Mask. I wouldn't be surprised if more than one reclusive sage or hedge wizard with a mysterious past turned out to have worn the crimson and come out second best in some struggle where there was no prize for almost succeeding. Thay is not famous for the mercy shown to those who displease the Zulkirs, but compared to what happens to those who reach too high and falter in that cruel land, it is but as a lover's touch.

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Originally posted by The Sage

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by The Red Walker

THO and Ed: What is the reason behind Vangerdahast's little grudge with Elminster?

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I'm sure that more than a little of it is the simple fact that El just pops in, does his "meddling", and pops back out again. He's playing without permission on Vangey's turf, and has no doubt interfered with a plan or two of Vangey's.

It prolly also makes Vangerdahast feel inferior, since an outsider so obviously feels free to wander in and play his own games -- and Vangey can't do jack about it.

Also, Vangey likes to know everything that's going on. Elminster is a wild card, as far as Vangey is concerned -- and he doesn't like wild cards. And Elminster has prolly dealt with more than one threat that Vangey didn't know about, which isn't going to make a control freak feel good about the job he's doing.

And this part is pure speculation... But Vangey may also be jealous of Elminster. El is more powerful, has a lot more irons in the fire, knows more, and -- perhaps the biggest thing of all -- has a personal relationship with Mystra. And he juggles all that just as readily, if not more so, than Vangey does with the myriad plots and conspiracies in just Cormyr.

Of course, all of this might just be additional reasoning, on top of something else. So I'm going to be looking forward to Ed's answer, too. I've wondered about that grudge more than once, myself.

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Actually, Ed already answered this somewhat with a reply from May '04:-

"May 16, 2004: Hail, fellow scribes! Doth the wind blow fair for thee?

Yes, 'tis I, The Hooded One, with VERY fresh words from Ed (as in, not smart-tongued, but only just these last few breaths uttered: I e-sent him postings from this thread and he replied almost instantly):

Aha! A very timely pair of related questions! I'm going to break off puttering on the outstanding Realmslore questions in this thread for a few minutes, and quickly answer this latest matter about Vangerdahast and Elminster.

simontrinity, I hope in future fiction to outline this in far greater detail, but let me summarize the relationship between Vangey and Old El.

Gerath Hoan, welcome to the thread, and I hope what follows answers your query about Vangey.

Briefly put, Vangerdahast has always been an ambitious, controlling sort of person, and has always been fiercely, unswervingly dedicated to the service of Cormyr (or to be a tad more precise, his vision of what the Forest Kingdom could and should be).

Early in his career, Vangey found himself desiring to achieve the greatest possible personal magical power to arm himself properly for plunging into the ferocious power struggles swirling around the Cormyrean Court at the time of his youth (and realizing his personal knowledge of magic and mastery of spells would have to be better than anyone the various Cormyrean noble families -- and/or their Sembian allies -- could hire). He decided to go to the best tutor he could think of: Elminster.

He became El's apprentice, and flourished in spellcraft, though he found Elminster's freewheeling, meddling, all-too-often-overly-kindhearted style grating (being himself more in love with control and hierarchy).

The problems arose after Vangey left Elminster's tutelage (amicably enough) and returned to Cormyr. Vangerdahast considered El his 'ace in the hole' to call upon whenever real crises threatened the stability of Cormyr and outstripped War Wizard capabilities, and did so -- but very much resented that Elminster's meddling and wise old advice came with such aid, every time.

One of the supporting scenes in ELMINSTER IN HELL ("Here Be Wizards" in Chapter 5) illustrates this ongoing friction (and the guilt creeping into Vangey recently, over his relations with Elminster).

Not knowing a polite way to go on demanding El's aid but at the same time telling him to 'butt out' of trying to twist events and attitudes in Cormyr (and dismissing the fact that El and the other Chosen had been meddling in Cormyr and everywhere else for years upon years), Vangey said it impolitely.

El took it well enough -- but went right on meddling, just choosing to now do it behind Vangey's back or without bothering to stop in and say hello to Vangey whenever he was active in Cormyr. Again, Vangerdahast chose to ignore that this is a large and well-established part of what Chosen of Mystra DO, and took it as a personal challenge to his authority. A failure to understand that "the apprentice had grown up," if you will. So Vangerdahast became increasingly frosty in his verbal and written communications with Elminster, and his comments about Elminster to other Chosen and to Harper go-betweens.

And Old El went on serenely behaving the way he always had, occasionally teasing Vangey with smart return-fire remarks of his own and ignoring Vangerdahast's decrees and demands to War Wizards that El be arrested and rendered no aid. As most of El's acidic remarks were shrewd criticisms of Vangerdahast's failings (love of intrigue, desire to know EVERYthing going on in the realm and thus crush and ruin shy or paranoid persons by repeatedly violating their privacy, and absolute need to be at the centre of things and to ALWAYS be in control, even when that need hampered the necessary personal growth of Obarskyrs destined to rule or who might come to the throne if bad things happened to their close relations, and so on), they really nettled Vangey, and the deep stings made him even more furious.

Both the Harpers and the Chosen admired Vangerdahast's successes in dealing with rebellious Cormyrean nobles and Azoun IV's personal failings, and building Cormyr into a truly prosperous, law-abiding, strong realm, and covertly helped him whenever they could. In the words of Storm Silverhand: "If we had a dozen Cormyrs, Faerun would be a shining homeland for all." They also noticed that increased experience and the goadings of Elminster were tempering Vangerdahast into an increasingly dextrous intriguer, and into a man who increasingly saw and admitted his own failings, and was willing to work to mend them.

So they wanted him to stick around, in particular to oversee the Forest Kingdom after Azoun IV's inevitable death (given ambitious nobles and Sembians, Alusair's willful nature, and other factors), and started to manipulate him into finding old magics and developing others that have longevity side-effects. Vangey is no fool when it comes to magic, and the moment he noticed these longevity effects, he embraced them so as, yes, to be around to serve Cormyr for the greatest possible time. Whereupon his manipulators increased their work to lengthen his years even more, beyond what he'd noticed. To what extent and in which ways they did so I'd like to keep secret for now (possible future fiction, again), but suffice it to say that their efforts, coupled with some magics that seem to lengthen the lifespans of all Royal Magicians of Cormyr (quite possibly because Mystra looks favourably on anyone who maintains and commands a force of government-related wizards, so long as those mages behave in ways that don't involve widespread slaughter of other wizards), gave Vangey many more years than most folk can enjoy.

And Vangey has used his time well. As SiriusBlack pointed out, ELMINSTER'S DAUGHTER shows us something of how Vangerdahast and Elminster get along "now" (current Realms time).

[...]

I feel I should be blowing a herald's horn.
THO"

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Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen

Well met!

Ed, would you please enlighten us about Torilian tales comparable to the Wandering Jew or the Flying Dutchman, people cursed to wander endlessly until some unlikely condition is fulfilled?

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