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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 02:38:47
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Poll Question:
This is something that has occurred to me recently. I doubt I would have received it well at the time, but thinking about 4th edition and the drastic changes and potential time jump, it dawned on me that, if given the option, I think I might have been more inclined to have given 4th edition a shot if they had really gone back to basics, completely.
So, my question is, if there were a choice between the current changes, and another option, that of rebuilding the Realms, from scratch, starting in the Year of the Prince and essentially using the Old Grey Boxed set as the starting point for the "new" setting, which would you rather have had?
The second option has some merit, as you could, if everything was "reset" easily reimagine wizards working the way they do in 4th edition, for example, and if you use the original boxed set as the starting point, there would be no need to mention the lands beyond the immediate ones in Faerun. Plus, many contentious events would not be assumed to have happened.
The down side to this would be that Realms fiction would either have to be "reset" as well, or the fiction line would have nothing to do with the campaign setting anymore at this point.
Just curious to see people's thoughts on this.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 02:48:49
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I'm rather surprised at myself, but I voted for option 4--I dislike them both about equally!
Why? Because I like much of the development that has occured since the Year of the Prince. It's true that the Realms has accrued plenty of baggage over the years and become "bloated" as a result, not all of the baggage is bad. If it were all thrown out, I would feel like I've been slapped in the face just as the new revelations felt like a slap in the face to me. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 02:52:22
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I understand what you are saying. I even thought of starting my last FR campaign back in the Year of the Prince and not counting anything as canon unless I wanted to use it, but the more I thought about it, there were lots of things added since then that I really liked.
But the thought occurred to me that this was the other way they could have done the same thing, so it made me curious as to if anyone would have preferred that instead.
Thanks for the answer RF. I'm looking forward to seeing other comments as well. |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 02:58:36
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| I have to be honest - I don't know enough about the changes to have an opinion yet. Sorry. |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness. 
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 02:59:18
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I understand what you are saying. I even thought of starting my last FR campaign back in the Year of the Prince and not counting anything as canon unless I wanted to use it, but the more I thought about it, there were lots of things added since then that I really liked.
But the thought occurred to me that this was the other way they could have done the same thing, so it made me curious as to if anyone would have preferred that instead.
I guess I can say that the Year of the Prince option gets a slight edge if only because it guarantees that certain characters I love won't be killed off. But still, it's like picking your poison.
quote:
Thanks for the answer RF. I'm looking forward to seeing other comments as well.
You're welcome--and me too! |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 02:59:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Brynweir
I have to be honest - I don't know enough about the changes to have an opinion yet. Sorry.
Nothing to be sorry about, that's why I put the option in there . . . |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 03:16:23
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| I voted for the wait and see. |
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turox
Learned Scribe
USA
145 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 04:25:38
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I also voted for the wait and see option, it's mainly due to the fact that since they moved the forums over to gleemax I haven't been able to read all the new stuff about the 4th edition (work blocked them and I don't spend much time at home reading those boards). I am keeping my mind open about 4th edition but I didn't start playing D&D again until about a year ago and the current group I play with have no intention of switching over after all the money they have spent on 3rd edition. When a 4th edition book finally gets released I will mosey over to Borders and sit down and read it over until then to me everything said about this edition is nothing but rumor.
Edit: Put too much thought into my answer so hid the majority of it. |
Turox Antas Dragonslayer -
"People will believe anything they want to believe, or fear to believe."
Wizard's First Rule: Chapter 36, Page #397, US Hard Cover (revealed by Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander).
Explanation by Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander: "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. Peoples heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool."
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Edited by - turox on 28 Nov 2007 05:34:54 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 04:49:40
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Hm . . . I just want to make sure this doesn't turn into a "do you want to convert to 4th edition" thread, which wasn't my intent. What I'm asking is not so much if you will get 4th edition or not, but rather, if you were in on the 4th edition design meetings, and you had the option to go one of two ways, either what we already know for sure about 4th edition (dead gods, no weave, etc), or hitting the complete reset button back to the Year of the Prince, which way would you want to go.
I don't want to accidentally spread out another yea or nay on 4th edition. I guess I'm looking at a specific aspect, which is, if drastic change has to be made, would it make more sense to start over instead of do a massive overhaul.
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 05:06:11
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| Sounds interesting, although I would have to wait and give 4E a look before I could make an honest choice... |
'Everyone dies...I only choose the time and place for a few.' --Eric Destler |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 07:04:25
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I went with the first choice years ago. I had a tendency to begin my campaigns in the late fifties/early sixties anyway, so when WotC more or less ruined it for me ( this is not a comment of quality, it is a matter of taste) I went back and did it my own way, based on the grey box. Some changes from the grey box where kept, most where not. the only canon here is me.
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 10:41:38
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Hm . . . I just want to make sure this doesn't turn into a "do you want to convert to 4th edition" thread, which wasn't my intent. What I'm asking is not so much if you will get 4th edition or not, but rather, if you were in on the 4th edition design meetings, and you had the option to go one of two ways, either what we already know for sure about 4th edition (dead gods, no weave, etc), or hitting the complete reset button back to the Year of the Prince, which way would you want to go.
I don't want to accidentally spread out another yea or nay on 4th edition. I guess I'm looking at a specific aspect, which is, if drastic change has to be made, would it make more sense to start over instead of do a massive overhaul.
Looking form this point of view I'd have to say - roll with the bunch and see what 4th Ed. has to offer. To make a massive overhaul by turning back the time to the Year of the Prince would really be taking several steps back. And as you mentioned it, and RF did too, it would render the novels meaningless. True, some were not very good and an overload of RSE lately was not that satisfactory to me either, but to cancel them all would be a slap in the face of what the Realms are - a living place. Therefore, I'd voted for the second option - 4th ed., even though I am not very fond of seeing the chances that it will bring about. And after all - stillstand is death. |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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frapast1981
Acolyte
Italy
29 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 12:28:05
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I think that either options are good in their own way.
If one reset all to the Year of Prince....it may lead to a better integration of the new rules with the setting...without too much discontinuity.
If one stay with the actual timeline of 4th. Ed. ....you have a white ticket in front of you and could make any major change that you want to incorporate the new rules with the NEW Faerun.
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 13:52:44
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| I say wait and see but I'm not a fan of setting resets like Marvel comics would do. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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AlorinDawn
Learned Scribe
USA
313 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 15:26:49
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| I don't care for either option. WotC/Hasbro has IMO mishandled the Realms in many ways. IMO they have far too many folks with their hands in the mix that don't have the background or knowledge to do the Realms justice. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 15:31:52
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Once again, I just don't get the big deal behind this. 4th edition will happen. The lore put forth will be canon, as it comes from the developers and designers at Mother WotC. As I've said in other threads, if you don't like it, don't read it. :)
I personally like what happened throughout the 3.x edition Realms, and I would hate to see that removed. The only thing I want in 4th edition is long ears on elves. Like as in Blood Elf long (rawr). And to be honest, a lot of the WotC art has gone that way anyway. Always jump on a good thing.
As to the lore and such. If you like it, make it happen in your game no matter what. If you don't like the City of Shade coming back, well.. keep them in the demiplane. I actually never used the drought and famine that was supposed to occur afterwards because I hear enough negativity in real life about starving people.. I don't need it in my games.
Anyway, in essence, I like what happened since the Year of the Prince, so bring on 4th Edition and let's see what we can shake up. :)
- C-Fb
P.s. - just think, what if the campaigns had started around Myth Drannor flourishing and then someone told you X edition - no, sorry, Myth Drannor's been invaded. Same concept, imo. |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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freyar
Learned Scribe
Canada
220 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 15:50:15
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| I'm with RF. The main reason is not the developments before or after 3.5 but that I like having the option to mine a lot of books, websites, etc, for detail. Resetting or wiping things clean would make a lot of the currently available info irrelevant, and that would mean I'd have to make things up completely myself. Since the collective mind (esp Mr. Greenwood's part!) has done such a good job with the Realms so far, I'd rather stick with a slow, sane, kind of progression. |
My DnD Links and Creations |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 16:46:32
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| Wait and see. |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 20:59:46
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i want to see more about 4th edition and then decide.. But something tells me that things will get worse in my beloved campaign setting with the 4th edition...
i smell it in the air !!! |
BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 21:45:06
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Resetting to the Year of the Prince would be not something I could get behind, as it would remove a lot of the things I find interesting in the Realms. I quite like the NG Mystra, Kelemvor and even the concept of Cyric (though he could do with a few changes!). I quite like the Harper Split, the Manshoon Wars, the Zhentish revival under Fzoul and Scyulla.
I'm a child of the 3rd Edition Realms. A reset to the Year of the Prince would be just as annoying as the current 4th Edition proposals. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2007 : 23:59:50
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
As I've said in other threads, if you don't like it, don't read it. :)
This is specious: the problem is not that the new Realms will be published but that the current Realms won't be. |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2007 : 09:59:35
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I, too, want to see exactly what will be the 4th Ed. FR, before to make some serious judgment about what I“ll do.
But, based in what I see until now, I prefer to stuck with my 3.5 Realms as it is now. Some of the novels and the tomes (Power of Faerūn, Lost Empires, etc.) are very good to be denied - even with some things that I don“t like. =) |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2007 : 18:21:49
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| Though I am trying not to judge the 4e Realms before it is released, I had to go with option #4. The changes as currently described for the 4e Realms leave a bad taste in my mouth, but there is a lot that has happened since the Year of the Prince (would you mind adding the actual year for those of us who do not have the Roll of years memorized) that I do like. |
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2007 : 20:37:19
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| But if i judge from the book Dungeon Survival Guide d&d core which has recently released then i have to say that if the books of 4th edirion look like this then it's going to be TERRIBLE!!! |
BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36802 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2007 : 21:48:54
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quote:
Originally posted by BARDOBARBAROS
But if i judge from the book Dungeon Survival Guide d&d core which has recently released then i have to say that if the books of 4th edirion look like this then it's going to be TERRIBLE!!!
I don't think it's fair to judge an entire product line on an earlier, unrelated product. Would you judge all Chevy Corvettes by checking out a Model T Ford? |
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RIMV
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2007 : 22:07:08
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I've decided I'm just going to stick with 3.X (I have nearly all the 3.X books). I've just recently started buying old 2E materials as well. Therefore, between all the 2E-3.X source books and information on this site, I'll have plenty of Realmslore to keep my group and I busy for a LONG time. 4E can bugger off for all I care.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2007 : 23:10:48
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This is a tough call - I think I would LOVE to see a 4e "Grey Box Edition" - you know, like a limited edition re-release of the original material, but with 4e rules applied (which really wouldn't effect most of what was in there anyway). Geeez - just getting another 'box' for old times sake would have me shelling out a $60-$70 for it. It would almost be like a "What If" - only a single box and nothing more, for people who wanted to run old-school FR with the new rules.
However, I think to do it as THE 4e setting would be a mistake, probably on par with a hundred-year time leap (if thats what they intend). They both accomplish the same thing - one obliterates the lore that came after, and the other makes it irrelevant. I don't think I care for either very much, but I will wait and see what they hand us in Aug before I make my final judgement.
The other option this thread make me think about is that they reset the setting to the OGB, and then add back in the good parts over the next few years. But then a brand new problem arises - who gets to decide what the 'good parts' were? The Shades? The ToT? A dozen other novel plots that have come and gone? On the surface it sounds like a dream come true, but I doubt any two people could agree on what set of lore should get worked back in.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't think it's fair to judge an entire product line on an earlier, unrelated product. Would you judge all Chevy Corvettes by checking out a Model T Ford?
Of course not - Fords and Chevys are nothing at all alike. I would autoamtically pick the SUPERIOR vehicle - the Model 'T' Ford. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Nov 2007 23:13:09 |
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What If Poll Question: Indulge Me
