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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Oct 2007 : 03:30:59
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Many people have been complaining about the events of 1384, with the affairs of the gods. Since it is in a cannon book, I thought about putting some meat on the bones of this idea.
Sune might have suggested a marriage between Tymora and Tyr as one of political advantage, yet it is possible she was using some of her own powers in love to make it more romantic.
Remember a god is strongest in their own portfolio. Even if it is possible for Tyr to resist it he might have go along with it for the peace of the planes.
We also know that Cyric might be behind this, and the closest ally with Cyric at the time is Shar, goddess of Secrets. Perhaps she knew of a dark secret and traded this to Cyric as a sign of good faith for their mission in the next year. One that would divert the power of Sune so Tymora fell for Helm instead of Tyr. The goddess of Love's power misfired by the lord of Strife and lady of Night.
Also Cyric has become a sorta unoffical god of madness... what if he had proceed with gaining some more power over the element of madness. Remember the Tyr and Helm battle due to strict version of their dogma, perhaps even obsessive versions of it. I know from experience that obsessive compulsive syndrome is a mental illness or madness.
A sudden burst of madness at the right moment, boosted perhaps with aid from Shar who would love to see the deities of light suffer (since there are allies of Selune among them, plus it has revenge against Sune for the Sharess affair in a very personal way), might explain the insane actions of the deities.
I'm not sure this is perfect, but it does put some meat on the bone left in A Grand history of the Realms. Opinions?
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Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2007 : 07:16:53
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I think people underestimate just how good Cyric is at his job. Cyric is the God of Intrigue, Illusions, and Lies.
Seriously, do people honestly think that he needs anything else to force Tyr and Helm into a duel?
LN vs. LG already means there's some grounds for conflict between them.
Bane is the best Dark Lord in the Realms but there's probably nothing that Cyric couldn't do to Bane short of actually BEATING him.
I figure that Cyric probably manipulated the whole thing with Siamorphe and then proceeded to force Helm to start acting like a jackass about the whole Tymora thing. I don't think Helm would have much difficulty being manipulated by Cyric, whom no doubt hates the man for his part in the Time of Troubles. Cyric doesn't need Shar to defeat The Triad.
He's the Emperor Palpatine of the Pantheon. Everyone vs. Him, Cyric is even money.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 07 Oct 2007 07:20:01 |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2007 : 07:32:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I think people underestimate just how good Cyric is at his job. Cyric is the God of Intrigue, Illusions, and Lies.
Seriously, do people honestly think that he needs anything else to force Tyr and Helm into a duel?
LN vs. LG already means there's some grounds for conflict between them.
Bane is the best Dark Lord in the Realms but there's probably nothing that Cyric couldn't do to Bane short of actually BEATING him.
I figure that Cyric probably manipulated the whole thing with Siamorphe and then proceeded to force Helm to start acting like a jackass about the whole Tymora thing. I don't think Helm would have much difficulty being manipulated by Cyric, whom no doubt hates the man for his part in the Time of Troubles. Cyric doesn't need Shar to defeat The Triad.
He's the Emperor Palpatine of the Pantheon. Everyone vs. Him, Cyric is even money.
Ah, it's fun to not being alone 
BTW, you can add that Cyric has a very high DR  |
Edited by - Skeptic on 07 Oct 2007 07:39:18 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11745 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2007 : 12:23:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
We also know that Cyric might be behind this, and the closest ally with Cyric at the time is Shar, goddess of Secrets. Perhaps she knew of a dark secret and traded this to Cyric as a sign of good faith for their mission in the next year.
Interesting play on things. However, perhaps Cyric enlisted the aid of Shar with a secret.... like the truename of Midnight/Mystra? How useful might that be in Shar's hands in destroying Mystra? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TobyKikami
Learned Scribe
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2007 : 13:26:42
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quote:
Sune might have suggested a marriage between Tymora and Tyr as one of political advantage, yet it is possible she was using some of her own powers in love to make it more romantic.
So what you're saying is Sune slipped them, I don't know, roofies? To tell the truth, that's... kind of a creepy image.
quote:
However, perhaps Cyric enlisted the aid of Shar with a secret.... like the truename of Midnight/Mystra? How useful might that be in Shar's hands in destroying Mystra?
Yeah, I remember that being a semi-plot point in the Avatar Trilogy, but I don't remember anything else ever coming of it... until, possibly, now.
Now then, any takers on the significance of "Ariel" being "Leira" spelled backwards? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2007 : 15:50:11
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| My theory is that Mask manipulated Cyric into the whole mess, as a play to get Intrigue. It would also be interesting if it turned out that Leira wasn't dead, and that she was somehow involved -- though I doubt that's the case. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2007 : 16:10:17
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Aye, Leira is dead. Several 2e and 3e sources confirm this, as did Ao in Crucible as I recall.
There was, however, some hypothetical mental meanderings between George and Steven in '05 that basically posited the idea that Leira was still around and secretly allied with Mask. Their aim: to steal control of the Shadow Weave from Shar who they've been running as their dupe for a while now.
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11745 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2007 : 17:18:07
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quote:
Originally posted by TobyKikami
quote:
Sune might have suggested a marriage between Tymora and Tyr as one of political advantage, yet it is possible she was using some of her own powers in love to make it more romantic.
So what you're saying is Sune slipped them, I don't know, roofies? To tell the truth, that's... kind of a creepy image.
quote:
However, perhaps Cyric enlisted the aid of Shar with a secret.... like the truename of Midnight/Mystra? How useful might that be in Shar's hands in destroying Mystra?
Yeah, I remember that being a semi-plot point in the Avatar Trilogy, but I don't remember anything else ever coming of it... until, possibly, now.
Now then, any takers on the significance of "Ariel" being "Leira" spelled backwards?
oh, now that is interesting.... I never had noted that. Nothing would be happier to me than Leira being involved somehow in Cyric getting locked away and Shar losing her ploy to take over the weave. Especially if it were all a scheme she cooked up with the aid of Ao. What a delicious little lie. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2007 : 20:55:51
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Yeah, a lot of people seem to think of Cyric as an incompetent compared to Mask/Leira/Shar/Bane/etc.
In truth, he's weathered the hatred of every god in the Realms.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Valaxaxath
Acolyte
12 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2007 : 21:00:16
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********SPOILER ALERT******
People seem to keep forgetting the Empyrean odyssey series Mr.Reid is working on right now. In the first book alone a priest of cyric managed to not only cast a spell that was able to fool an entire council of solars in service to try(his spell concealing his hidden instructions to aliisza), but that same spell survived scrutiny from helm himself. That priest furthermore managed to enter Tyr's home plane, and possesed a celestial dragon for currently unknown reasons.
The series hasn't concluded yet, but just from the first book we know Cyric is up to something.. something huge, and that a mere servant of his was able to get through into the very seat of Tyr's power. As I see it, this series could very well set up the events leading up to the death of helm at tyr's hands, with this trilogy being the seeds of a plan that eventually grow into the events leading to Helm's death. |
When you're not regular, eat an elf! They're full of fiber. |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2007 : 00:23:24
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| I just finished that book, and the same thought occurred to me. Now we wait and see. |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2007 : 01:03:18
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Yeah.
My explanation until contradicted by canon was that Helm and Tymora were actually "close" and Cyric used his powers to turn his genuine feelings into a titanic rage.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2007 : 01:18:40
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| How does the saying go? There is a thin line between love and hate. |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness. 
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Theory on the Helm-Tyr Affair (spoilers:1384 DR)
