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Vainelus
Seeker
USA
59 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Oct 2007 : 19:24:16
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Which of the Seven Sister have been confirmed as killed off in upcoming 4ed realms?
Mod edit: Added the spoiler notice, for those who haven't read the Shadowdale: The Scouring of the Land module. 
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 03 Oct 2007 20:22:35
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2007 : 19:36:31
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None of them, until now. But Chris Perkins said that the fans of the Chosen of Mystra will not like of what they´re doing... 
This, more the fact that Mystra will die, is something to think about... :/ |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2007 : 19:50:34
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| Syluné is killed in Shadowdale : Scouring of the land. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 03 Oct 2007 19:50:49 |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2007 : 19:54:35
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| Not that I'm not aware of most of this information already, but is there any chance we can get a [SPOILERS] tag on this thread? |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2007 : 20:20:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
But Chris Perkins said that the fans of the Chosen of Mystra will not like of what they´re doing...
You know this is what bothers me. WotC knows they are going to upset fans. Of course perhaps somewhere in plans they will be something that Chosen fans will like, just I have not hread of anything yet.
Side Note: If you could link to an actual quote it would be better. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2007 : 20:23:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
Not that I'm not aware of most of this information already, but is there any chance we can get a [SPOILERS] tag on this thread?
'Tis done. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2007 : 20:42:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Syluné is killed in Shadowdale : Scouring of the land.
Disappointing to find out
Oh well. Not everyone can go on forever  |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2007 : 20:54:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
But Chris Perkins said that the fans of the Chosen of Mystra will not like of what they´re doing...
You know this is what bothers me. WotC knows they are going to upset fans. Of course perhaps somewhere in plans they will be something that Chosen fans will like, just I have not hread of anything yet.
Side Note: If you could link to an actual quote it would be better.
Here´s the link to the quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Kheris
Well met!
I had the honor to fire off several question to Mr. Perkins yesterday, while he was trapped at the Digital Life convention 
I must say, he's a great guy to talk to, and I really got a good feeling from him.
...
So, without further ado,
On the subject of the Realms:
...
On Mystra's Chosen: "We're looking for a less omnipotent force for good." and "Fans of Mystra's Chosen may not be too happy with us."
And here is the scroll with the discussion about this comments:
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Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Haman
Seeker
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2007 : 22:58:28
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Ummm....this could be a REALLY stupid question...but wasn't she already dead?
If shes now "dead-dead", then I guess I don't mind so much. I always thought that her demise was handled a bit selfishly and easy by Ed. Sure we have the trauma and drama of her dying, but in her new form she can still hang around and interact/exist almost as well as she did before! Death = closure and loss. Did she finally get it? |
Some people say we gamers have no lives....I think we have too many. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2007 : 23:49:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Haman
Ummm....this could be a REALLY stupid question...but wasn't she already dead?
If shes now "dead-dead", then I guess I don't mind so much. I always thought that her demise was handled a bit selfishly and easy by Ed. Sure we have the trauma and drama of her dying, but in her new form she can still hang around and interact/exist almost as well as she did before! Death = closure and loss. Did she finally get it?
Yup. The formerly dead Syluné is now totally gone. Which I think kinda sucks, because it had been implied in the past that her ghostly existence made her something more than a Chosen -- as extraordinary as the rest of the Chosen were, Syluné was somewhere beyond them. It would have been quite interesting, to me, if she had progressed further down whatever that silvery path was. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2007 : 00:37:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Haman
Ummm....this could be a REALLY stupid question...but wasn't she already dead?
If shes now "dead-dead", then I guess I don't mind so much. I always thought that her demise was handled a bit selfishly and easy by Ed. Sure we have the trauma and drama of her dying, but in her new form she can still hang around and interact/exist almost as well as she did before! Death = closure and loss. Did she finally get it?
Yup. The formerly dead Syluné is now totally gone. Which I think kinda sucks, because it had been implied in the past that her ghostly existence made her something more than a Chosen -- as extraordinary as the rest of the Chosen were, Syluné was somewhere beyond them. It would have been quite interesting, to me, if she had progressed further down whatever that silvery path was.
Indeed. I was hoping that this particular aspect of Syluné would be explored at some point. Of course, now we know that, this isn't likely to happen.
Though I had, in the past, sometimes assumed that it may have been that Syluné's experiences with the "Scepter of Savras" played some part in allowing her to maintain her special Chosen status after her physical destruction.
We know the ability she gained while under the Scepter's influence enabled her to hold together when her physical form was destroyed by dragonfire whereupon she became a spectral harpist (of sorts). It may have been that influence which also, while allowing her to remain intact, allowed her to maintain her Chosen status as well.
It's also possible that Azuth himself had some hand in Syluné's continued status as a Chosen of Mystra after her physical death -- given Savras's earlier treatment of Syluné while she was under his subliminal influence. Azuth may have felt responsible for unintentionally drawing Syluné into the past troubles experienced between the two deities. We can assume this may be the case, since we know Azuth has taken it upon himself to watch out for Syluné since her death.
Then Ed, in May '04, provided us with some tantalising tidbits about her possible evolution:-
"Well met again, all. Herewith, another of Ed’s replies:
Hi, Abizoath. In answer to your question: we mortals don’t know.
Sylune very much did want to be resurrected at the time of her death, though she now seems content with her lot (as a spectral harpist, able to possess the bodies of the living or manifest in ghostly form within a certain distance from any fragment of stone taken from the floor of her hut in Shadowdale [such fragments being carried by all of the Chosen, and also carefully placed in strategic places elsewhere]).
However, Sylune’s desires and the powers her sisters wield lead to the inevitable conclusion that there IS some sort of reason that prevents her from being resurrected.
The nature of that reason is where the debate rages. Strongest among the current theories is the thinking that Mystra (not yet Midnight, but she who was mother to the Seven) didn’t want her resurrected, or that Ao or some circumstances involving her silver fire prevented that resurrection.
Azuth and Elminster believe something else, however: that Sylune, in some ways the wisest of the Seven, was ‘ready’ for another step in the progression or ‘life-cycle’ of a Chosen of Mystra, ascending to another form of existence more closely bound to the Weave.
And that the Weave itself, or Mystra’s innermost self, or Ao or some greater power or intellect, was aware of this, and saw Sylune’s transformation as necessary.
Perhaps we’ll all know more someday. Perhaps I can seize the chance to write a novel about it, a few years from now. The debate will doubtless continue. What we do know for sure is that Sylune’s abilities continue to change and grow, that she is now almost an intelligent, mutable mass of silver fire more closely attuned to the Weave than any mortal, and that she knows only a little more of what she can now do than the rest of the Chosen do.
I’m thinking she’s going to surprise us all..."
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2007 : 00:40:15
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And then, in Oct. '05, Ed said:-
"I’m not planning on restoring Syluné to “full life” because that wouldn’t be in keeping with Mystra’s Chosen, Syluné’s own character, or leaving some dramatic impact to her death in the first place. If everything can be magically undone with no cost, then there’s no lasting weight of meaning to any achievement or event."
Which, again, hints about the possibility that something about exploring her status beyond death, was possibly being planned.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 04 Oct 2007 00:41:49 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2007 : 02:11:37
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| Isn't it sad when the stories of interesting characters just get nipped in the bud like this? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2007 : 02:41:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Isn't it sad when the stories of interesting characters just get nipped in the bud like this?
Could someone please tell me how she expires? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2007 : 03:36:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Isn't it sad when the stories of interesting characters just get nipped in the bud like this?
It's sad when any interesting story gets nipped in the bud... I'm one of those still irked at WotC's failure to capitalize on the Harper Schism or the Manshoon Wars. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 04 Oct 2007 03:38:32 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2007 : 04:17:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Isn't it sad when the stories of interesting characters just get nipped in the bud like this?
It's sad when any interesting story gets nipped in the bud... I'm one of those still irked at WotC's failure to capitalize on the Harper Schism or the Manshoon Wars.
You and me both. Steven Schend has had such fantastic ideas for both the Schism and the Manshoon Wars, as he's hinted at here several times in the past. 'Tis truly a shame that such worthwhile Realmslore has been left to linger in the dark.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 04 Oct 2007 04:17:58 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2007 : 04:33:00
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Isn't it sad when the stories of interesting characters just get nipped in the bud like this?
Could someone please tell me how she expires?
I'd rather not spoil a major part of the adventure itself. Rather, I'd suggest you just look over "Chapter 1" of the new Shadowdale adventure.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Drunken Master
Acolyte
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2007 : 15:47:54
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4E seems to be putting some importance on the drow and Eilistraee, so I bet that Qilué will survive Mystra's destruction & the Spellplague - especially since she has Eilistraee's protection, not just Mystra's.
Some of the other Sisters have to survive - they can't kill them all...can they? |
Erik Nowak
Graphic Designer, Blackdirge Publishing |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2007 : 16:16:08
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Isn't it sad when the stories of interesting characters just get nipped in the bud like this?
Could someone please tell me how she expires?
I'd rather not spoil a major part of the adventure itself. Rather, I'd suggest you just look over "Chapter 1" of the new Shadowdale adventure.
Awwwww................Sage, that's no fun
Surely someone will tell me, after all the scrolls says possible spoilers |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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BlackMoria
Acolyte
Canada
36 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2007 : 16:34:10
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quote:
Some of the other Sisters have to survive - they can't kill them all...can they?
Yes, they can. WOTC owns the setting and can do whatever they want.
Based on the Year of Blue Fire (1385 DR), we know that
1) Mystra & Savras die, Azuth and Velsharoon are lost in the Astral
2) The Weave is destroyed.
The Chosen have a special relationship with Mystra and the Weave. Ergo, with Mystra and Weave destroyed, the Chosen will be impacted somehow.
Scenario 1 - The Spellplague kills the Chosen (their silver fire novas, destroying them or however)
Scenario 2 - The Chosen are no longer Chosen. They become fully mortal in all aspects.
Scenario 3 - The Chosen are subsumed by Ao to construct a new goddess of magic (the promotion of Azuth is not a given since he would have been promoted above Midnight during the Time of Troubles, and we don't know Azuth's final fate)
Any of these scenarios will fit in with 'fans of Mystra's Chosen may not be happy' comment since any of the scenarios effectly remove the Chosen (or Chosen status) from them.
My preference is scenario 2. Scenario 1 has no dignity or story elements to it. Scenario 2 allows for a multitude of story or plot elements (the former Chosen needing help from adventurers to protect them from their multitude of enemies who see them as weak and vulnerable now). Scenario 3 might be satisfying from a certain point of view because it might be the destiny of the Chosen to be the building blocks of the new goddess of magic when all other contigencies fail (which explains why they weren't subsumed during the Time of Troubles because Midnight was destined to become the new Mystra).
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2007 : 23:55:39
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This truly saddens me. Sylune always gave me a feeling of happy sadness when I read anything about her.  I will miss her. Her, Storm, El, Dove, and the rest of the bunch really went together well for those cozy cottage scenes. Although I don't recall any time when they were at Storm's place at one time before. |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2007 : 08:55:52
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackMoria
Scenario 1 has no dignity or story elements to it.
It seems that since 4e WotC does not care too much about "story elements"... So you better be prepared for the worst!  |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Matthus
Senior Scribe
Germany
393 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2007 : 12:28:54
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Awwwww................Sage, that's no fun
Surely someone will tell me, after all the scrolls says possible spoilers
Just let me know if I should give you some info on a more private medium - so maybe I'm able to avoid the staff of smiting (lowly scribes) + 5  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2007 : 03:15:44
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Rich Baker said on the WotC boards (in his Designer Thread, General forum) that some of the Chosen will still be around.
I don't find that reassuring though. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2007 : 02:14:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Matthus
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Awwwww................Sage, that's no fun
Surely someone will tell me, after all the scrolls says possible spoilers
Just let me know if I should give you some info on a more private medium - so maybe I'm able to avoid the staff of smiting (lowly scribes) + 5
Feel free to PM it to me....if you care to face Sage's Staff |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Seven sisters question (possible Spoiler)
