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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5696 Posts |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Oct 2007 : 16:21:22
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I did find it interesting (in a pleasant way) how the "Drizzt Journal Entry" called "Gauntlgrym" seems to work in a meta-textual way. On the surface it's about Bruenor dealing with his fear of change, but it just as easily could be addressed to those of us who are unhappy with (and dare I say it, fear) the upcoming 4E changes to the Realms.
I do like how Wulfgar and Catti-brie are in Silverymoon. While I don't think RAS's portrayal of Alustriel quite matches Greenwood's, Silverymoon is, surprisingly, rarely ever visited in novels. Wonder why... |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2007 : 19:52:51
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| OK, I'm not too happy with how Innovindil left the story as quickly as she entered it. Also, her death feels a lot like Delly's, in the sense that there is a vibe (to me, obviously) that the author killed the character off just because he couldn't figure out what else to do with her. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2007 : 19:56:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
OK, I'm not too happy with how Innovindil left the story as quickly as she entered it. Also, her death feels a lot like Delly's, in the sense that there is a vibe (to me, obviously) that the author killed the character off just because he couldn't figure out what else to do with her.
I really didn't see any reason for killing her as well. I thought that in the future (a suitable time after Cattie-Brie's death) it might be kind of cool if Drizzt and Innovindil hooked up. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2007 : 19:58:55
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
I really didn't see any reason for killing her as well. I thought that in the future (a suitable time after Cattie-Brie's death) it might be kind of cool if Drizzt and Innovindil hooked up.
Indeed. Heck, I wouldn't have minded seeing Drizzt and Innovindil hook up, period. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2007 : 20:23:37
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| Personally, I definitely wanted him to finally get together with Cattie-Brie after his angsty monologues on the subject in so many books. But I also thought that Innovindil was cool (she is the one who helped him get over the angst) and that it would be cool if they hooked up in the future. I also really want to see some sort of progeny of Drizzt at some point, but I do not know how many people share that desire. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2007 : 20:28:39
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
Personally, I definitely wanted him to finally get together with Cattie-Brie after his angsty monologues on the subject in so many books.
Great point. I guess I just wasn't so keen on the idea, myself. I think the whole Wulfgar/Catti-brie/Drizzt love triangle is silly, and yes, it's been going on for too long. Having Drizzt hook up with someone totally DIFFERENT, who hasn't been in tons of books, would have been refreshing.
quote:
But I also thought that Innovindil was cool (she is the one who helped him get over the angst) and that it would be cool if they hooked up in the future. I also really want to see some sort of progeny of Drizzt at some point, but I do not know how many people share that desire.
I don't know if we will ever see Drizzt's progeny, but I'd like to think he'd have some eventually. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2007 : 20:36:50
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| I disliked the love triangle too. That is why I wish that Wulfgar had headed back to Icewind Dale after The Spine of the World. I liked him in the Icewind Dale Trilogy, but after that I began to dislike the character. His macho "You are female, so I will protect you," schtick was annoying. I was happy that he was alive after the Abyss and back bit, but who he had become (with good reason) was no longer a character I could connect with or really even like. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Edited by - Hawkins on 24 Oct 2007 20:38:31 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2007 : 23:43:36
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I have to admit, I do like the way Wulfgar has developed over time as a character, except for the nonsense about him still loving Catti-brie.
I just remembered something else: the gender-bending pegasii. When they first appeared, if I remember correctly, Sunset was female and Sunrise was male. Then sometime later (I think the short story in Realms of the Elves), they switched genders--Sunset became male and Sunrise female.
In The Orc King, Sunset is still male, but in the scene where Sunrise whinnys in sadness, his gender is also MALE!
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2007 : 00:05:28
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| Wow. Hadn't noticed the change in genders for the Pegasi. That is amusing! |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2007 : 00:14:30
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
Wow. Hadn't noticed the change in genders for the Pegasi. That is amusing!
The scene where Sunrise mourns HIS mate (the male Sunset--I recall these horses were mates) had me bursting with laughter. Sunrise has gone from male, to female, then back to male! Of course, it also kind of ruined what was supposed to be a heartbreaking scene. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 25 Oct 2007 00:15:32 |
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Karzak
Learned Scribe
196 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2007 : 01:16:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
The scene where Sunrise mourns HIS mate (the male Sunset--I recall these horses were mates) had me bursting with laughter. Sunrise has gone from male, to female, then back to male! Of course, it also kind of ruined what was supposed to be a heartbreaking scene.
So is it worse that I read "mourns" as "mounts" and went "hmmm, pegasus sex"? |
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Generator
Acolyte
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2007 : 17:08:29
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| Wow, uhh, okay. But on the topic of Innovindil I think that's partly been done to help justify the actions that are taken later on in the book when Drizzt confronts the other drow running around up top, sorry I don't remember names that well. Still it's a bit awkwardly done, but it's Mr. Salvatore's book, still I found some of the concepts that Drizzt writing about a bit disturbing, and weird, but I only think that because I've read Atlas Shrugged and agree with the idea's put forth in that book. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2007 : 17:37:30
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I feel like Innovindil had too much potential to be killed off just like that. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2007 : 17:46:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Generator
Wow, uhh, okay. But on the topic of Innovindil I think that's partly been done to help justify the actions that are taken later on in the book when Drizzt confronts the other drow running around up top, sorry I don't remember names that well. Still it's a bit awkwardly done, but it's Mr. Salvatore's book, still I found some of the concepts that Drizzt writing about a bit disturbing, and weird, but I only think that because I've read Atlas Shrugged and agree with the idea's put forth in that book.
Drizzt does not need much incentive to hunt down drow. All he needed was the fact that they had attacked the Moonwood in the first place and that the elves suspected that To'sun (is that his name, I can't remember) was involved to incite him to track To'sun down. Add to that the fact that Drizzt knew that To'Sun had Cutter, and that he did not think that Cutter should be in the hands of any evil creature, and without Innovindil's death he would track the rogue drow down. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Edited by - Hawkins on 25 Oct 2007 17:48:09 |
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Generator
Acolyte
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2007 : 17:55:51
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| I disagree, I don't think he would of hunted To'sun (kudos by the way for remembering his name) down if he hadn't had the thought pressed onto him by the others who believed that it was To'sun had planned the trap and been so preasured into it. Though I do agree with the idea that he might try to get khazid'hea back from To'sun because he didn't know what the other drow planned to do with it, before I go on I want to know if you've finished the book cause this might be a spoiler for anyone who hasn't read the book. So just say so. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2007 : 18:00:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Generator
I disagree, I don't think he would of hunted To'sun (kudos by the way for remembering his name) down if he hadn't had the thought pressed onto him by the others who believed that it was To'sun had planned the trap and been so preasured into it. Though I do agree with the idea that he might try to get khazid'hea back from To'sun because he didn't know what the other drow planned to do with it, before I go on I want to know if you've finished the book cause this might be a spoiler for anyone who hasn't read the book. So just say so.
I have, but if you want to post spoilers I suggest that you post them in the last chapters/epilogue scroll for those who read this scroll who have not finished the book. Also, if you read the short story in Realms of the Elves, it describes To'Sun's first encounter with the Moonwood elves and that Drizzt does intend to track him down anyway because he suspects that he was one of the drow with Obould and he knows that To'Sun has Khazid'hea (I never can remember how to spell that correctly, thank you). |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 01:31:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
Personally, I definitely wanted him to finally get together with Cattie-Brie after his angsty monologues on the subject in so many books.
Great point. I guess I just wasn't so keen on the idea, myself. I think the whole Wulfgar/Catti-brie/Drizzt love triangle is silly, and yes, it's been going on for too long. Having Drizzt hook up with someone totally DIFFERENT, who hasn't been in tons of books, would have been refreshing.
quote:
But I also thought that Innovindil was cool (she is the one who helped him get over the angst) and that it would be cool if they hooked up in the future. I also really want to see some sort of progeny of Drizzt at some point, but I do not know how many people share that desire.
I don't know if we will ever see Drizzt's progeny, but I'd like to think he'd have some eventually.
I am betting on a red-headed drow child! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 01:31:12
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I am enjoying the book more as I get further into it, but...
Drizzt's "journal entries are giving me the willies. It just feels as the author uses them as an excuse to patronize us. They have the feel to me of someone smugly explaining that they assume (wrongly I might add) we cannot fathom.
We understand change.....blah blah blah....growth.....seasons...the more things change...etc. etc.
Just get to telling the stroy please. Make the changes interesting and most will not even realize them until they happen.
Other than the "monologues" I really am enjoying Wulfgar's newfound sense of self worth and purpose.
Also good to see Drizzt and Cattie-Bire so affectionate and openly loving. Even though I am not sure when it happened. When did the pledge to marry? (My memory must be slipping!) |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 17:37:45
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Drizzt's "journal entries are giving me the willies. It just feels as the author uses them as an excuse to patronize us. They have the feel to me of someone smugly explaining that they assume (wrongly I might add) we cannot fathom.
I've often felt that way, myself.
quote:
Also good to see Drizzt and Cattie-Bire so affectionate and openly loving. Even though I am not sure when it happened. When did the pledge to marry? (My memory must be slipping!)
I don't recall a scene (in any book) where the two explicitly pledge themselves as husband and wife, either. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 18:37:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Drizzt's "journal entries are giving me the willies. It just feels as the author uses them as an excuse to patronize us. They have the feel to me of someone smugly explaining that they assume (wrongly I might add) we cannot fathom.
I've often felt that way, myself.
quote:
Also good to see Drizzt and Cattie-Bire so affectionate and openly loving. Even though I am not sure when it happened. When did the pledge to marry? (My memory must be slipping!)
I don't recall a scene (in any book) where the two explicitly pledge themselves as husband and wife, either.
I think the closest you will get is the mentioning of it in the short story from Realms of the Elves (at least I think it was mentioned in there too) and at the beginning of The Orc King. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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The Orc King: Chapters 7 - 12
