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Entreri1000
Acolyte
Canada
26 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 13:46:56
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Kane is THE MOST POWERFUL WARRIOR in the realms, bar none!
Why? Very high level Monks are nearly immune to magic, and other damage (poison etc). Someone like Kane would be nearly immune to psionics as well. Monks also move insanely fast, higher the level=faster the movement rate. In the book when that 400 pound priest barrelled into him, he did not move an inch!
Secondly: The dragon sisters (ANCIENT bronzes) BOTH feared Kane, even combined they feared to fight him!!! The dragon sisters said he is the most powerful human in ALL THE BLOODSTONE lands! King Gareth is a 24th level Paladin, Knellict is a 24 level archmage!
So this implies that Kane either approches (25th, 26th etc) a level 30 monk or is a level 30 monk.
Kane handled Entreri like a baby, sooo easily. Kane would likely defeat both Drizzt and Entreri at once. Even for all of Jaraxle's tricks, he would be defeated by Kane. I believe I saw Jaraxle listed as either a 22 or 24th level...
Thus Kane is the most powerful warrior in Faerun, or at least top 3. And unlike the other top warriors, he can "easily" defeat archmages and psioncist. In the book it said that Kane made the killing blow against the Witch King (30th level archmage, lich). |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 21:19:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Entreri1000
Kane is THE MOST POWERFUL WARRIOR in the realms, bar none!
No. This is not indisputable.
quote:
Why? Very high level Monks are nearly immune to magic, and other damage (poison etc). Someone like Kane would be nearly immune to psionics as well. Monks also move insanely fast, higher the level=faster the movement rate. In the book when that 400 pound priest barrelled into him, he did not move an inch!
So what? Is Kane the only high level monk in the Realms?
quote:
Secondly: The dragon sisters (ANCIENT bronzes) BOTH feared Kane, even combined they feared to fight him!!! The dragon sisters said he is the most powerful human in ALL THE BLOODSTONE lands! King Gareth is a 24th level Paladin, Knellict is a 24 level archmage!
Knellict is not that powerful--every source regarding him that I've read puts him around level 17-19. Also, most powerful in the Bloodstone Lands does not equal most powerful in the Realms. Lastly, all the exclamation marks you are using (!) make your post all the harder to take seriously. You come off more as a shill for Kane than anything else.
quote:
So this implies that Kane either approches (25th, 26th etc) a level 30 monk or is a level 30 monk.
Again, I've done some research, and I haven't seen Kane put above level 20.
quote:
Kane handled Entreri like a baby, sooo easily. Kane would likely defeat both Drizzt and Entreri at once. Even for all of Jaraxle's tricks, he would be defeated by Kane. I believe I saw Jaraxle listed as either a 22 or 24th level...
Again, you are waaaay overestimating people here. Being able to take on Entreri and Drizzt isn't all that impressive, since neither of those characters are even epic level yet (they just have a reputation for being "unstoppable" amongst their fans). Jarlaxle was listed as "only" level 17 in 2E...but since he never actually fought Kane in the novel, how are you so certain that Kane would have beaten him?
quote:
Thus Kane is the most powerful warrior in Faerun, or at least top 3. And unlike the other top warriors, he can "easily" defeat archmages and psioncist. In the book it said that Kane made the killing blow against the Witch King (30th level archmage, lich).
Making the killing blow doesn't mean he beat a lvl 30 lich all by himself. So no, I don't agree with all these conclusions you've drawn. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Entreri1000
Acolyte
Canada
26 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 21:43:24
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"Again, I've done some research, and I haven't seen Kane put above level 20"
Just under old rules. Him to put fear into Ancient Bronze dragons puts him at way higher level.
"Also, most powerful in the Bloodstone Lands does not equal most powerful in the Realms"
May be not in level wise, but what Kane can do and his resistances/abilities=best warrior in the realms.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 21:50:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Entreri1000
"Again, I've done some research, and I haven't seen Kane put above level 20"
Just under old rules. Him to put fear into Ancient Bronze dragons puts him at way higher level.
Not necessarily...to me, that just meant the dragons weren't as cavalier and confident about being able to destry Kane easily, like they would be with any other human. It did NOT mean Kane should be considered a higher level than the sourcebooks put him as. It didn't even mean the dragons could not have destroyed him.
quote:
"Also, most powerful in the Bloodstone Lands does not equal most powerful in the Realms"
May be not in level wise, but what Kane can do and his resistances/abilities=best warrior in the realms.
No, not just level-wise. If you like the character, fine, but don't be so partial to him that you feel that he is so unique. He's not. As far as I could tell, the abilities he had were the abilities any monk around level 20 would have. I'm just not "buying" into the idea that there is no one in all of Faerun better than Kane. You're going to have to work a lot harder to convince me and all the other skeptics out there. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 22 Nov 2006 21:51:26 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2006 : 22:41:51
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| And I don't care what a person's special abilities are, if someone is fully prepared to fight them and has the time to make all the proper arrangements, then that person is toast. Magical immunity, for example, won't stop a mage from dropping a wall of iron on you or letting his stone golem pound you to a mush. Rock to mud would slow him down, especially if it was dispelled immediately after he sank in it... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2006 : 00:15:17
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Agreed.
Additionally, all the power in the Realms will ultimately amount to little if you have neither the skill or experience with using that power against an opponent more skilled and more experienced with the use of that power.
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2006 : 07:38:09
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Just an obnoxious goblin with a bow behind your back when you are not prepared could change the title of greatest warrior in the realms quickly, if we were not discussing game stats.
Levels and special powers are gaming tools and whilst we may find the most powerful warrior in the game, this will have little effect on the world as such. Kane might have the highest level, most special powers etc. but that just means that under certain theoretical circumstances he will win a fight. |
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2006 : 19:58:38
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Gotta agree with Wooly here, he who controls the battlefield, controls the battle.
As for quivering palm being the end all of attacks, well I'd prefer something that didn't give a save, and more importantly sommething I can use more than once a week.
Like the most powerful spellcaster, I feel that the most powerful warrior is an unknown. Why? Because otherwise your exsistence would be nothing but one challenge after another, from fools who think they can best you. |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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Entreri1000
Acolyte
Canada
26 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2006 : 22:47:54
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"It did NOT mean Kane should be considered a higher level than the sourcebooks put him as. It didn't even mean the dragons could not have destroyed him."
The books metion that he pretty much single handedly defeated 3 dragons.
Quivering Palm is awesome.
Nobody has convinced me that there is a better all around warrior, able to defeat not just other warriors but other classes. For example, monks are very good at killing mages due to their very high natuarl resistances. If Kane is not the best, he is definitely way up there. |
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Entreri1000
Acolyte
Canada
26 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2006 : 22:49:09
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| He took on three full grown dragons at once and defeated them. That is very impressive for any warrior. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2006 : 23:30:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Entreri1000
He took on three full grown dragons at once and defeated them. That is very impressive for any warrior.
Those must have been some monumentally stupid dragons, then... Any dragon with a shred of intelligence would know to stay out of reach of someone trying to kill them. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2006 : 23:57:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Entreri1000
He took on three full grown dragons at once and defeated them. That is very impressive for any warrior.
Those must have been some monumentally stupid dragons, then... Any dragon with a shred of intelligence would know to stay out of reach of someone trying to kill them.
Agreed.
Let's face it, RAS tends to really play up the abilities of certain characters in his novels. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Entreri1000
Acolyte
Canada
26 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2006 : 20:35:29
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"Let's face it, RAS tends to really play up the abilities of certain characters in his novels."
Doesn't any author? In perspective: Drizzt et al was all needed to defeat one shadow dragon, and only by sheer luck they beat it.
"Any dragon with a shred of intelligence would know to stay out of reach of someone trying to kill them."
Kane probably used Quivering Palm, and he can fly via carpet. The dragons were unlikely to get away from him.
All this proves is Kane is phenoemanl, better than any characters I seen listed here. |
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Entreri1000
Acolyte
Canada
26 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2006 : 20:40:34
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"And I don't care what a person's special abilities are, if someone is fully prepared to fight them and has the time to make all the proper arrangements, then that person is toast. Magical immunity, for example, won't stop a mage from dropping a wall of iron on you or letting his stone golem pound you to a mush. Rock to mud would slow him down, especially if it was dispelled immediately after he sank in it..."
That is obvious, it applies to anyone. Monks have many immunities are they are much harder to catch off guard, high level monks hands become +4 weapons. They can easily break stone. May be not a mithril, certainly not an adamantium golem. But then adamanatium golems are nearly indestructable. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2006 : 21:39:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Entreri1000
Kane probably used Quivering Palm, and he can fly via carpet. The dragons were unlikely to get away from him.
He beats three dragons thanks to his toy carpet? That's pretty silly. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2006 : 05:18:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Entreri1000
"Let's face it, RAS tends to really play up the abilities of certain characters in his novels."
Doesn't any author? In perspective: Drizzt et al was all needed to defeat one shadow dragon, and only by sheer luck they beat it.
"Any dragon with a shred of intelligence would know to stay out of reach of someone trying to kill them."
Kane probably used Quivering Palm, and he can fly via carpet. The dragons were unlikely to get away from him.
All this proves is Kane is phenoemanl, better than any characters I seen listed here.
I'm still not convinced. Dragons have a lot more going for them than just wings... Even with a flying carpet, a dragon should still be able to deal with one lone person buzzing around. Either this guy ambushed the dragon, or it did something really stupid to allow itself to be killed by a single human. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2006 : 05:20:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Entreri1000
"And I don't care what a person's special abilities are, if someone is fully prepared to fight them and has the time to make all the proper arrangements, then that person is toast. Magical immunity, for example, won't stop a mage from dropping a wall of iron on you or letting his stone golem pound you to a mush. Rock to mud would slow him down, especially if it was dispelled immediately after he sank in it..."
That is obvious, it applies to anyone. Monks have many immunities are they are much harder to catch off guard, high level monks hands become +4 weapons. They can easily break stone. May be not a mithril, certainly not an adamantium golem. But then adamanatium golems are nearly indestructable.
And still, entrapping him in mud (via rock to mud) or simply dropping a wall of iron on him will get around all of those abilities.
But really, it's kind of a moot point, since this thread is about warriors/fighters -- not monks. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Entreri1000
Acolyte
Canada
26 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2006 : 17:18:47
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Those 3 dragons were attacking Gareth's army, and would have broken through expect for Kane. Kane must have killed one dragon via Quivering Palm, and other two he likely pummelled to death. A monk like Kane moves incredibly fast, the dragons probably never knew what hit them.
from www.rasalvatore.com, what couple of readers said:
"i remember reading the Bloodstone lands Module(late 80's early 90's) and back then Gareth was a 20th level Paladin, kane was already a grandMaster monk of about 25th level. So you can just imagine how Powerful they'd be today.
I have absolutely No doubt in my mind that Kane could take on Aretmis, Jarlaxle, Drizzt, Zaknafein or Athrogate.
Think about it, for a pair of Dragon sisters to be SCARED of a human, that human has to be ultimately powerful. Gareth is powerful, yet they do not fear him. They fear Kane!"
Another:
"Monks are immune to all types of poison as well as non-magical disease. As for speed, I believe I once heard it referred to as ungodly. I do believe it is +100 at level 30..."
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2006 : 18:03:17
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Hey,
Can we drop this? Some feel, obviously, that Kane is Lathander's Gift to Monks, while others don't. It's getting repetitive. :)
Oh, and as for that poster that said Kane was 25th level in 1e/2e, he's dead wrong. Kane was only 16th level according to the Bloodstone modules and RAS's Bloodstone Lands sourcebook. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 26 Nov 2006 18:05:24 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2006 : 00:09:02
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I have to agree.
This Kane debate is becoming tiresome... it's almost like a repeat of the "Drizzt is the better fighter" debate that occured earlier this year.
Enough is enough my fellow scribes... let's move on to other characters, if we must continue to pursue this discussion.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Bahgtru
Acolyte
29 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2006 : 02:21:50
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| I'm going to go with Madeiron Sunderstone. He is the champion of Piergeiron and a veritable giant at over 8 feet tall. He is descended from the same bloodline of the Hartwick kings and Queens of Hartsvale and possesses the augmented strength of that bloodline. He is only a level 17Pal but his size and strength make him very formidable. He would be perfect for the Legendary Dreadnought progression when he reaches epic levels. |
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Ranin
Seeker
88 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2006 : 03:58:52
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Heh...I know Drizzt may start to wear on everyone simply because he's the most widely sopken of character of the Realms and Salvatore makes him do impressive feats. This is because Drizzt Do'Urden IS the BEST!!!!
Who else could face up against a thousand orcs???????!!!!!!!!!!!!
Turn Gaints into mashed pudding?????!!!!!!!
Face upon against countless other foes???!!!!!!
The third born son of HOUSE DO'URDEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Listen to the silence of the wilds, in there lies the wisdom of ages. |
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l33td0ggy
Acolyte
25 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2006 : 04:24:59
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| Yup, he's so great that he was defeated by a yeti the first time we saw him (and had to be rescued) and he later couldn't beat a single orc (Obold). |
i have no sig. |
Edited by - l33td0ggy on 29 Nov 2006 04:26:29 |
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Entreri1000
Acolyte
Canada
26 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2006 : 16:13:07
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From Salvator's book (P.84 Road of the Patriarch):
"In the martial sense, he was the greatest of the disciples in all the Bloodstone Lands and FAR BEYOND" (84: emphasis added).
This implies that Kane is the highest ranking/level monk in Faerun.
As for Drizzt, he was described as the best in drow city, possibly best Drow. But Drizzt was a 18 level fighter (or 16 th level ranger), and even with the new rules he is more impressive than those other listed by Ed Greenwood, most of whom are lower level and stats.
Shurupuck(sp) would of course defeat Drizzt. But Shurupuck would have his hands full with Kane.
"Yup, he's so great that he was defeated by a yeti the first time we saw him (and had to be rescued) and he later couldn't beat a single orc (Obold)."
Context: Two yeti's surprised him. King Obould is the Chosen of Grummesh, he has gained many powers. Obould also defeated the Grost Giant leader.
Drizzt single handedly defeated a major BALOR.
Context.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2006 : 17:03:06
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| Okay, I think this thread has gone far enough. Not only are we beginning to see arguments that have been repeated ad nauseum elsewhere on this site, but a request from two moderators to quit debating the whole Kane issue was ignored. Therefore I'm locking this thread. |
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