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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Nov 2006 : 05:50:27
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You know, I've never seen anyone discuss Valigan Thirdborn, a lesser deity of anarchy that Tyr slew, according to Faiths & Pantheons.
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For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2006 : 05:59:20
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| He's actually been discussed a few times, usually in association with Jhaamdath. |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1075 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2006 : 06:06:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Eric
Faithes and Pantheons says Tyr killed a deity called Valigan Thirdborn. All we know is that he was a Lesser Power and he was a God of Anarchy (Im assuming he was CN)
Do we have any other infomation on this deity?
Portfolios and Domains (other than Anarchy?), Alignment, History etc
I asked Ed about Valigan but he said he was "Your baby" but he was keen to hear what you had Valigan Thirdborn
Quote taken from
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3803
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quote]Originally posted by edbonny
quote:
Originally posted by daarkknight
Ed,
I've been reading about Tyr once again from Faiths & Pantheons to assist a player who worships the Maimed God, and I've come across the reference to Valigan Thirdborn, a lesser deity of anarchy who rose to power in -269. It states that his rise to power coincided with the ascendance of Exarch Thelasand IV, who pushed Emperor Dharien (or is it Dhorien) to war with the elves.
Do you have any information that you've come up with concerning this Exarch Thelasand IV? Just curious.
Thanks,
Paul
Hey Paul,
I had overlooked the Valigan-Exarch connection although it clearly is part of the tale of Jhaamdath's destruction (and Tyr's arrival and subsequent involvement with the empire's fragmented survivors.)
At the time of Valigan's "appearance" in Jhaamdath, Auppenser's followers were being harassed, persecuted, and shut out by the more imperial-minded militants of the empire. Valigan could certainly have seen the imperial dreams of many Jhaamdathans as an opportunity to inject future chaos.
That would bring us to Thelasand. I do not see any true Jhaamdathan worshipping a god of chaos unless that god sought out someone receptive. Persecution can open the door to many unforeseen consequences. It seems very likely that the awful treatment "Auppenser-loyalists" received would inevitably give rise to a Jhaamdathan who was sorely disenchanted with the imperialists (in this case, Thelasand, an ancient noble family whose persistent devotion to Auppenser caused the family's recent downfall). Such a person would be perfect for Valigan to use as an agent of anarchy.
Valigan approached Thelasand. The god nurtured dreams of dismantling the harsh regime that was the cause of Thelasand's personal misery. Thelasand was offered revenge against the cruel imperialists and their ways. Bloodshed would, of course, be needed to free the region of Jhaamdath's lust for empire. But to accomplish this, it would be necessary to strike from within and on high. Thelasand would need to position himself to make this happen. He would need to be emperor if he were to bring down the empire.
And so from humble beginnings and with secret aid from Valigan, Thelasand feigned to be an imperialist as he rose his way up through the military and government. His military campaigns were conducted in ways that benefitted Valigan greatly by causing great carnage and devastation.
Flush with fame and military success, Thelasand easily gained access to the emperor and was able to influence him in matters of imperial policy. The imperial-minded Jhaamdathans were certainly open to most any option that enriched or empowered the empire (and also enrich the participants). The Valigan-inspired idea for an imperial navy, when proposed to the emperor by Thelasand, seemed to be a logical step to grow the empire. As for the elves whose forests would supply the ships' wood? The wholesale slaughter of elves would be a small if not inconsequential price to pay.
And so we come to the last days of the empire. Thelasand was no doubt highly pleased with himself. In a relatively short period of time, he became a powerful player in Jhaamdathan politics. In a year or two, he would be in a position to slay the emperor and take over Jhaamdath. Then he would begin his plans to dismantle the psionic empire, disband its armies, free the 12 cities, and throw the entire region into anarchy.
As mentioned earlier, persecution can open doors to unforeseen circumstances. While the Chondalwood was being ravaged, I doubt Thelesand foresaw the fast-approaching day when his empire would destroyed by elven high magic. I imagine that Valigan was well aware (if not thrilled) that Jhaamdath's doom was nigh.
In the end, both participants in this saga lost. Thelesand never realized his dreams to take down the imperialists. And Valigan's successful plans for anarchy would ultimately lead to his death at the hands of Tyr.
- Ed
[/quote]
Quote taken from
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3806&whichpage=5
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Valigan Thirdborn was a lesser deity of Anarchy when he was slain circa -247 DR by Tyr. Faiths & Pantheons mentions that Valigan Thirdborn had a rise in -269 DR in Jhaamdath during a time of upheaval.
This could mean that Valigan may have been just your run of the mill ascended mortal that obtained godhood sometime around -269 DR.
But Anarchy is a component of disorder, lawlessness... chaos. This is a primal concept. One would think there had been a god of chaos around since time immemorial.
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Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master
Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2006 : 07:47:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
He's actually been discussed a few times, usually in association with Jhaamdath.
Indeed.
And Ed Bonny and Eric have discussed Valigan more than a few times here at Candlekeep. Eric's made a few notes over at WotC too.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2006 : 07:50:57
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| Guess I just missed it then. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2006 : 07:56:15
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Well, I'm sure you've likely taken Ed's and Eric's comments regarding Valigan, and compiled them as well.
I can pass along the more recent WotC posts too, in case you've missed them.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2006 : 11:14:00
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I can pass along the more recent WotC posts too, in case you've missed them.
I'd like to see those, myself, since I no longer go to those forums. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2006 : 15:45:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I can pass along the more recent WotC posts too, in case you've missed them.
I'd like to see those, myself, since I no longer go to those forums.
Ditto.
And I guess I just brain farted then and it didn't register who they were talking about. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2006 : 15:54:40
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Righto.
I may just compile the whole lot that I've picked up from the WotC boards since Kuje's departure and send them straight to Big Al so they can be added to the PDF/HTML compilations already available at Candlekeep.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2006 : 16:07:52
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Righto.
I may just compile the whole lot that I've picked up from the WotC boards since Kuje's departure and send them straight to Big Al so they can be added to the PDF/HTML compilations already available at Candlekeep.
Actually, why don't you send them to me so I can add them into the table of contents/index files that I created and then I'll code them up for Alaundo and then send all of it to him..... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2006 : 23:38:36
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I've never even heard of that deity until reading this thread. 
My, you learn new things every day! |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2006 : 00:24:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I've never even heard of that deity until reading this thread.
My, you learn new things every day!
Well, least I helped someone with my brain fart. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2006 : 00:32:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Righto.
I may just compile the whole lot that I've picked up from the WotC boards since Kuje's departure and send them straight to Big Al so they can be added to the PDF/HTML compilations already available at Candlekeep.
Actually, why don't you send them to me so I can add them into the table of contents/index files that I created and then I'll code them up for Alaundo and then send all of it to him.....
Hmmm...
That may be for the best. I'll go through them when I get home...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2006 : 00:35:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I've never even heard of that deity until reading this thread.
My, you learn new things every day!
Well, least I helped someone with my brain fart. :)
Yes, indeed you did. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2006 : 20:55:36
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Kuje just wanted to show off his supreme knowlegde.  You taught me something new too Kuje. You have my thanks.  |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2006 : 22:50:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd like to see those, myself, since I no longer go to those forums.
Ditto.
You left the Wizards boards too? |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2006 : 23:52:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd like to see those, myself, since I no longer go to those forums.
Ditto.
You left the Wizards boards too?
Months ago, for reasons that I don't want to get into publicly. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2006 : 01:13:16
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Nothing to see here ya looky loos!  There ya go Kuje. |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
Edited by - Wandering_mage on 29 Nov 2006 02:18:21 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Topic |
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New deity?
