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Naeryndam
Learned Scribe
USA
121 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Apr 2026 : 21:19:38
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So as the subject says... can Halisstra be saved? What would it take? Not planning a campaign or anything, just a mental exercise. Her endless torment (losing Ryld, being turned into... THAT, killing who was once her goddess, etc.) really sat poorly with me and even after all these years, I can't help but speculate on how she could be saved.
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Delnyn
Master of Realmslore
USA
1102 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2026 : 19:12:23
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| I treat the LP series as a corporate hit job on Eilistraee. Turning Miyertari-based drow into surface eloves while they are still in drow cities in the Underdark?! Utter tripe! |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2535 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2026 : 18:55:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Naeryndam
So as the subject says... [...] really sat poorly with me and even after all these years, I can't help but speculate on how she could be saved.
Unfortunately, making any meaningful answer to this question would require the context (which is, plot of LP) to make sense. And, well, it's LP... Candlekeep had it kicked all over at least one thread for being utter nonsense.
At best, we could try to make up some hypothetical plot, which would make sense both on its own and under continuity and lore of Forgotten Realms and Planescape, yet at the same time this question would still be meaningful within its context. And then discuss that. But what's the point?
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
I treat the LP series as a corporate hit job on Eilistraee.
It was also done by an author who already known to produce texts one notch above "soapbox" style tumblrfic and care little about continuity/lore in general... but the grand "plot" itself does look like it came from the Pointy-Haired Ones directly, indeed.
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Turning Miyertari-based drow into surface eloves while they are still in drow cities in the Underdark?! Utter tripe!
Well, yeah. That subplot is on the level where it must be either a deliberate insult to the readers' intelligence, or a symptom of, ahem, inability to grasp the concept of insulting anyone's intelligence. Of course, results of creativity-by-committee could fall under both. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12251 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2026 : 21:58:21
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| lol, TBeholder... I do so love me some Dilbert...... Phil, The Prince of Insufficient Light |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Naeryndam
Learned Scribe
USA
121 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2026 : 00:28:50
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| I agree with everyone and their opinions on this but... this isn't really answering my question lol. Can anyone think of a way in which Halisstra could be saved? |
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Delnyn
Master of Realmslore
USA
1102 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2026 : 00:45:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Naeryndam
Can anyone think of a way in which Halisstra could be saved?
By ignoring LP altogether and the concept of Halisstra needing any saving vanishes in a puff of logic.*
*Apologies to Douglas Adams for the ripoff quote. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4706 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2026 : 01:19:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Naeryndam
I agree with everyone and their opinions on this but... this isn't really answering my question lol. Can anyone think of a way in which Halisstra could be saved?
The problem is if you throw away most of the series as not credible, you need to come up with a different story as to why she needs to be saved.
A twice fallen priestess' best hope for being saved is another deity intervening. Perhaps one that that does not care much about loyalty? |
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Delnyn
Master of Realmslore
USA
1102 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2026 : 11:52:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
The problem is if you throw away most of the series as not credible, you need to come up with a different story as to why she needs to be saved.
A twice fallen priestess' best hope for being saved is another deity intervening. Perhaps one that that does not care much about loyalty?
If you throw away all the story as not being credible, the whole premise of Halisstra needing any saving at all does not apply.
Let's keep the Silence of Lolth and the quest to see what happened to her. The key difference in the new story would be the portrayal of Eilistraee and her worshippers. If you want to show Halisstra being tempted to fall from Eilistraee, focus on how Eilistraee wants drow to make friends, even with non-drow, just as Eilistraee has friends among "human" gods, namely Mystra and Selune.
Halisstra learns she cannot succeed in isolation. She needs friends. Yes, she most likely loses Ryld, but she makes new friends among the members of the Promenade. Qilue may reveal her status as Chosen of Mystra to Halisstra. That would teach Halisstra that even Eilistraee needs friends, all the more reason for mortals to do likewise. |
Edited by - Delnyn on 19 Apr 2026 11:53:49 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3774 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2026 : 06:31:53
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| -It's been a while, but she was basically turned into a spider demon-esque creature who begrudgingly did Lolth's bidding. If another deity or powerful entity wanted to take her from Lolth's service and "cure" her, sure. Whether or not it would be worth it for that deity/those deities, to pick a fight with Lolth and expend time and energies into "curing" Halisstra is another matter. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8101 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2026 : 04:24:52
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Can a deity directly redeem, reformat, reset, or steal away another deity's Chosen, Exarch, Proxy, or Avatar? Because it's not really about the little godling, it's about the big godly being which reshaped the vessel then filled it with power and purpose.
I don't think there are any published answers to this question, no examples in Realmslore, no examples in other D&D lore. Aside from Cyric killing other deities to steal their worshippers, powers, and portfolios - and it's unlikely any sane deity would choose to follow the example of his insane failure.
It seems likely that a deity of greater power/stature should (usually) be able to force a deity of lesser power/stature to comply. But it also seems to be something which just never happens, so there must be a reason. Probably it's because both deities would be seriously weakened after the conflict (possibly reducing their stature permanently), possibly it's because other deities would be drawn into the "war" as allies or opportunists (which would make things really messy), and almost certainly it's because the collateral damage on the Realms would be unacceptable to the rest of the pantheon so rules and punishments would be (forcibly) imposed upon troublemakers.
So the real question isn't "can this poor little godling be redeemed", it's "what other god would use this little godling as an instrument to attack Lolth, and why?" |
[/Ayrik] |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2535 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2026 : 16:27:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Can a deity directly redeem, reformat, reset, or steal away another deity's Chosen, Exarch, Proxy, or Avatar?
Even proxies were known to turn stag on their gods. But then, as a rule this kind of servants are very close to their patrons to begin with. Outright conversion is unlikely, and even then they won't go very far.
Subversion is always on the table. Like that time when Sammaster's mind got wobbly and a servant of Bane was pushing him over the edge. Or the way Moander pulled a fast one on Tyche herself.
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So the real question isn't "can this poor little godling be redeemed", it's "what other god would use this little godling as an instrument to attack Lolth, and why?"
That's always on the table, yes. And she has many enemies and rivals.
Lolth is known for hoarding her own power carefully, and expending it mostly to reinforce her grasp on major assets supplying it in the first place, that is large pools of worshipers. Her "special blessings" are not known to be permanent, if only because she consistently encourages further competition and discourages complacency.
To create walking power keys (of any sort, never mind unwilling) and then just let them run wild in the places she does not control "for lulz" is not among her usual pastimes, and would be rather obviously out of character IMO. Which is just one more way in which LP plot is daft. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
Edited by - TBeholder on 23 Apr 2026 16:48:16 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3824 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2026 : 01:05:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Naeryndam
So as the subject says... can Halisstra be saved? What would it take? Not planning a campaign or anything, just a mental exercise. Her endless torment (losing Ryld, being turned into... THAT, killing who was once her goddess, etc.) really sat poorly with me and even after all these years, I can't help but speculate on how she could be saved.
Not going to happen unless she gains at least 40 IQ points or so. It's pretty rare to get characters as demented as she was.
On a less snarky note, well, we now know she didn't quite manage to kill Eilistraee, and Eilistraee is fully back. Eilistraee still wanted Halisstra to be redeemed at the end of LP, and wanted it enough to expoose herself for it. So... uh, maybe?
As for how, how do you redeem yourself? You understand what you did wrong and you try to repair that. What did Halisstra do wrong? She treated loyalty, faith, and causes as ways to benefit herself before anything else, while parading as a righteous person of some kind. She was so self-centered, petty (and let's be honest: retarded) that she preferred returning to Lolth and throwing the soul of the man she supposedly loved--and her whole people--to her eternal torture, because Eilistraee didn't magically foresee that her former slave would betray her. How can you redeem from that? You learn to actually dedicate to a cause, have something sacred, above yourself, that you are willing to choose and face any adversity from. And then you do precisely that. So, her redemption would have to involve non-Lolthite drow and Eilistraee.
Now, WHY would Halisstra make such a change? People change when it's necessary, when they reach their bottom and can finally see what actually is important once all the BS has been burned away. I'd say that being doomed to suffer in Lolth's afterlife for all eternity, seeing all the pain Lolth can inflict on her and the drow because she has been a revolving door her whole life, and then having Eilistraee decide to give her a light/way out, might count.
The real question is why would Eilistraee do that AGAIN? Eilistraee is really dedicated to her people, but she's not retarded (no matter how hard Smedman "worked" to depict her--aka a character she didn't create--like that), and I don't see her putting her people at risk AGAIN for a person that has repeatedly chosen to be squalid. Halisstra would have to PROVE that, and that's pretty hard to do from the depths of Lolth's demonweb pits.
In all honesty, Halisstra's character makes for a pretty worthless person. Why would any god choose her--someone who reacts to adversity by immediately switching allegiance--for anything is purely dictated by forced plot reasons. I don't know whether the writers intended for her to be this weak and worthless or not (I'm guessing not, because the books seem to want you to empathize with her), but if they didn't, they gave us a spectacular display of incompetence with her. Want to redeem her? Rewrite her character altogether into someone who actually has potential who WANTS to learn to stand up to adversity, who WANTS to find something to work for and put even above themselves. This is the kind of person gods would choose, not some spineless former noble who has done nothing in her life but spending half her time in brothels, and the other half crying herself to sleep. That she was chosen for a mission where the fate of a people was at stake is beyond ridiculous, forced, and overall incompetenet writing. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 24 Apr 2026 01:45:30 |
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Salvation for Halisstra?
