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T O P I C    R E V I E W
AuldDragon Posted - 12 Feb 2014 : 10:35:26
I've been a huge fan of the Faiths & Avatars format created by Julia Martin and Eric Boyd, and I always wanted a fourth book to be published, companion to Faiths & Avatars, Powers & Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities. Since there's no chance now of seeing an official one, I decided to create my own, updating the deities from DMGR4 Monster Mythology, as well as some others. I write these from the point of view of 2nd Edition, incorporating primarily only that canon, and focusing on the whole 2e multiverse, so where possible, I mention canon from all 2nd Edition settings. I post the main entries on my blog, and then will update this thread.

If you’ve been enjoying these entries, please consider supporting the project on Patreon or Ko-Fi:
https://www.patreon.com/MonsterMythology
https://ko-fi.com/aulddragon

Bugbear (and Other) Pantheon:
Grankhul the Hunter: http://bit.ly/1TTie59
Hruggek the Decapitator: http://bit.ly/1XX3cus
Meriadar the Patient One: http://bit.ly/1RTjyNC
Skiggaret the Deranged One: http://bit.ly/1X3bgdU
Stalker, the Hateful Shadow: http://bit.ly/1O7VbB3

Goblin Pantheon:
Bargrivyek the Peacekeeper: http://bit.ly/1U3efkG
Khugorbaeyag the Overseer: http://bit.ly/24ne4Cb
Maglubiyet the Mighty One: http://bit.ly/1TNW2UB
Nomog-Geaya the General: http://bit.ly/1ss21aV

Kobold and Urd Pantheon:
Dakarnok the Raider: http://bit.ly/1UBjZAN
Gaknulak the Trapmaker: http://bit.ly/1TTjqVU
Kuraulyek the Horned Thief: http://bit.ly/1PaE0de
Kurtulmak the Cunning: http://bit.ly/1PsgPAp

Orcish Pantheon:
Bahgtru the Leg-Breaker: http://bit.ly/1UmIK0I
Gruumsh One-Eye: http://bit.ly/1VCla5n
Ilneval the Horde Leader: http://bit.ly/24nfwV7
Luthic the Cave Mother: http://bit.ly/1UBjd6N
Shargaas the Night Lord: http://bit.ly/1sTJO5O
Yurtrus White-Hands: http://bit.ly/25FbI7s

The Ordning:
Annam the All-Father: http://bit.ly/1U0cJOR
Diancastra, the Wanton Wanderer: http://bit.ly/1PaEzUo
Grolantor the Steading Lord: http://bit.ly/1U3fGQ5
Grond Peaksmasher: http://bit.ly/24nggt6
Hiatea the Huntress: http://bit.ly/1XpIe9p
Iallanis the Tender One: http://bit.ly/1X3cvd4
Karontor the Deformed One: http://bit.ly/1O7VU5v
Memnor the Deceiver: http://bit.ly/1UBjLcS
Skoreaus Stonebones, the Living Rock: http://bit.ly/1UBjLcS
Stronmaus the Storm Lord: http://bit.ly/289ALyn
Surtr the Black: http://bit.ly/289ABqP
Thrym, the King of Ice: http://bit.ly/25Corob

Gnoll Pantheon:
Gorellik the Loner: http://bit.ly/1UBjXZy
Refnara the Moon-Biter: http://bit.ly/1PspJ11
Yeenoghu the Demon Prince of Gnolls: http://bit.ly/1UBk87a

Ogre Pantheon:
Mirklak the Orcslayer: http://bit.ly/1VCpPnK
Vaprak the Destroyer: http://bit.ly/1TTm1zk
Ysshara the Lorekeeper: http://bit.ly/1t7fJk7

Interlopers on the Giant Pantheon:
Baphomet, Demon Lord of Minotaurs: http://bit.ly/1U3lSrf
Kostchtchie, the Demon Prince of Wrath: http://bit.ly/1XpQeHa

Draconic Pantheon (Io's Children):
Aasterinian, the Messenger of Io: http://bit.ly/1XpQuWH
Arcanic the Learned: http://bit.ly/1WzDlK9
Astilabor the Hoardmistress: http://bit.ly/1PaJGDQ
Bahamut the Platinum Dragon: http://bit.ly/2gcEmW6
Chronepsis the Death Dragon: http://bit.ly/1O7Yx7l
Elemtia the Tempest: http://bit.ly/1U3m1uJ
Faluzure the Night Dragon: http://bit.ly/1ZcdvtA
Garyx the Firelord: http://bit.ly/1X3g6In
Hlal the Jester: http://bit.ly/2aI5MoG
Io the Ninefold Dragon: http://bit.ly/2iuNgmv
Kalzareinad, The Keeper of Dark Wonders: http://bit.ly/1VCqHc5
Kereska Wonderbringer: http://bit.ly/2fbhbMv
Lendys the Balancer: http://bit.ly/1U3nzos
Rais, The Cogitative One: http://bit.ly/20Y18Sg
Sardior the Ruby Dragon: http://bit.ly/2bMvFiS
Tamara the Merciful: http://bit.ly/2dMW2KH
Task the Wrester: http://bit.ly/29aUTaK
Tiamat the Chromatic Dragon: http://bit.ly/22DC4Bx
Zorquan the High One: http://bit.ly/1UjK9W9

Aerial Deities:
Jazirian the Eternal Serpent: http://bit.ly/1UmSlo6
Koriel the Vigilant: http://bit.ly/2kszfGg
Stillsong the Singing Sphere: http://bit.ly/2pAAh5J

Aquatic Deities:
Anguileusis the Abiding One: http://bit.ly/2lcZsdz
Blibdoolpoolp the Sea Mother: http://bit.ly/2tK3Pzc
Demogorgon, the Prince of Demons: http://bit.ly/2V7sVn3
Eadro the Deliverer: http://bit.ly/Eadro
Ilxendren the Demonray: http://bit.ly/2svK8MH
Panzuriel the Enslaver: http://bit.ly/2CJf7IQ
Persana, Guardian of the Deep: http://bit.ly/2OXzuFW
Sekolah the Great Shark: http://bit.ly/2iyzGR3
Surminare the Selkie Queen: http://bit.ly/2nsA7cU
Trishina the Waverider: http://bit.ly/1t7h0rg
Water Lion the Sharkslayer: http://bit.ly/2x7BNwt

Avian Deities:
Krocaa the Crimsonfeather: http://bit.ly/2BL3ddK
Quorlinn the Filcher: http://bit.ly/2iTi41K
Remnis, the Great Lord of the Eagles: http://bit.ly/2J4orfd
Syranita, Mistress of the Aarakocra: http://bit.ly/2qFphWC

Reptilian and Amphibian Deities:
Laogzed the Devourer: http://bit.ly/2vo4pox
Merrshaulk the Serpent Lord: http://bit.ly/Merrshaulk
Parrafaire the Naga Prince: http://bit.ly/2epLsHv
Ramenos the Great Frog: http://bit.ly/1sTUIsi
Semuanya the Survivor: http://bit.ly/2SzBYfM
Sess'innek the Emperor Lizard: http://bit.ly/2EuSHcW
Shekinester the Three-Faced Queen: http://bit.ly/Shekinester

Centaur Pantheon:
Brilros the Battle Stallion: http://bit.ly/2XmYvhK
Chitza-Atlan, the Guardian of the Gateway to the Underworld: http://bit.ly/2NCr5HT
Fanthros Storm-Hooves: http://bit.ly/2KKZH9m
Kheiron the Educator: http://bit.ly/35T1VNf
Linroth Fleet-Hoof: http://bit.ly/2PvXvUv
Naharra the Mother-Mare: http://bit.ly/32kSzIc
Skerrit the Hoofed Lord: http://bit.ly/1t7gQQH

Lycanthrope Pantheon:
Balador the Master of Mead: http://bit.ly/2MMJ7qp
Daragor the Wolflord: http://bit.ly/2GIbUL7
Eshebala the Vixen Queen: http://bit.ly/2LoZOLw
Ferrix the Prowler: http://bit.ly/2N5fGSg
Squerrik the Ratlord: http://bit.ly/24nmVDV

Seelie Court:
Caoimhin the Kindly: http://bit.ly/2obZk0g
Damh the Horned Beast: http://bit.ly/2xy2LQx
Eachthighern the Unicorn Lord: https://bit.ly/33ja8M2
Emmantiensien the Treant-King: https://bit.ly/2wKVVKH
Fionnghuala the Mistress of Swans: http://bit.ly/20Y1bNS
Nathair Sgiathach the Prankster: http://bit.ly/2ZOPwYY
Oberon the Faerie King: https://bit.ly/3wiU1L7
Squelaiche the Court Jester: https://bit.ly/3gkuybw
Tapann the Undying: https://bit.ly/3zmugeL
Titania the Faerie Queen: https://bit.ly/3jzLU8W
Verenestra the Oak Princess: http://bit.ly/2L8jTGz

Unseelie Court
The Queen of Air and Darkness: https://bit.ly/3onJXPp

Beholder Pantheon:
Great Mother, the Hive Spawner: http://bit.ly/2UgrWn2
Gzemnid the Gas Giant: http://bit.ly/2MjGnS1

Deities “missing” from Demihuman Deities:
Alathrien Druanna, the Rune Mistress: https://bit.ly/34BKFNK
Araleth Letheranil the Prince of Stars: https://bit.ly/3lxhFxY
Cador the Shadow Knife: https://bit.ly/3qhraUh
Diinkarazan, the Mad God: https://bit.ly/3pivLWG
Diirinka the Betrayer: http://bit.ly/387V7Mo
Kavor the Lord of Gravity: http://bit.ly/3IAVHGR
Keptolo the Eager Consort: https://bit.ly/3KDxMXE
Kirith Sotheril the Magess: https://bit.ly/3HxwKcP
Mythrien Sarath, the Watcher over Mythals: https://bit.ly/3NterII
Naralis Analor, the Watcher of Souls: http://bit.ly/3r5IAmR
Nebelun the Meddler: http://bit.ly/1TO1req
Rellavar Danuvien, the Frost Sprite King: https://bit.ly/3yxZo92
Tarsellis Meunniduin the Lord of the Mountains: https://bit.ly/3gWWkR0
Tethrin Veraldé the Shining One: http://bit.ly/2MjGnS1

Myconid Pantheon:
Psilofyr the Spore Lord: https://bit.ly/2Dnsl0L

Illithid Pantheon:
Ilsensine
Maanzecorian

Undead Deities:
Kanchelsis the Lord of Vampires: https://bit.ly/3fs3n37
Mellifleur the Lich-Lord: https://bit.ly/34oq2I0
Orcus, the Demon Prince of Undeath: https://bit.ly/42n1tU5

Elemental Deities
Chan, the Princess of Good Air: https://bit.ly/44NypqR
Cryonax the Prince of Evil Ice: https://bit.ly/3uKZdr9
The Elder Elemental God
Ogremoch, the Prince of Evil Earth: http://bit.ly/3vyfL6G
Olhydra the Princess of Evil Water: https://bit.ly/3cSv2ZN
Yan-C-Bin, the Prince of Evil Air: https://bit.ly/3WmIjfC

Miscellaneous Dark Deities:
Cegilune
The Dark God
Juiblex the Faceless Lord: https://bit.ly/3LALnP9
Piscaethces the Blood Queen: https://bit.ly/3Z0XY5U
Shami-Amourae, the Demon Princess of Eros: https://bit.ly/3DuJl14

Neogi Pantheon
Kil’lix the Ambitious: http://bit.ly/3td5z0Q
Kr’tx the Flaming Master: https://bit.ly/3jVvjsZ
P'kk the Dominator: https://bit.ly/3EO5R3t
Thrig’ki the Rapacious: https://bit.ly/2QCBolt
T’zen’kil the Lasher: https://bit.ly/3fAXYEn

Insectoid and Arthropod Deities
Klikral, the Master of the Mound: https://bit.ly/443SxVF
30   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
AuldDragon Posted - 25 Sep 2023 : 18:45:08
quote:
Originally posted by Azar

Why are Half-Elves and Elves unaffected by Abbathor's ability to arouse treasure lust in the mortal races?



It's not that elves and half-elves are specifically excluded from the power; it only affects the small races (all of whom are seen as somewhat related to dwarves), and humans. So basically it is "dwarf-related races and humans." I think the idea is that he has no power over those who are not related to dwarves other than humans.

Jeff
Azar Posted - 25 Sep 2023 : 12:37:33
Why are Half-Elves and Elves unaffected by Abbathor's ability to arouse treasure lust in the mortal races?
Baltas Posted - 22 Sep 2023 : 13:18:15
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
[It does not "show how big" it is any more than a stencilling a crude picture with "perspective" on a wall shows how big a building is. And at the quality level of most kitchen sinks, they would probably cause fits of claustrophobia.

Kitchen sinks are created out of laziness, and in turn breed silly mess.
This silly mess degrades the expected levels of content quality.



I mean, this is why I wrote YMMV (Your Millege May Vary).

The issues you also brought up, are not primiraily or exculisivelly connected the fantasy kitchen sink idea.

Revising Ultravision and Infravision to Low Light Vision and Darkvision, might be even seen as an attempt to reduce kitchen sink elements, by remove sci-fi (really reall-life physicics and biology inspired) elements from the game.

There are examples of very good use of fantasy kitchen sink story telling. Neil Gaiman's Sandman and it's spin-off Lucifer, are examples, as are to a degree Hellboy, Astro City or even Warhammer 40,000 when it's well written. In D&D, Planescape and Spelljammer are also examples of fantasy kitchen sink settings intentionally set-up as such. And also utilizing the previous fantasy kitchen sink elements in D&D, if expanding on it.

To return to Shami-Amourae, if were to take out the kitchen sink element, we would have to make the devil Lilith somehow the queen of succubi, prehaps even remove the the split of fiends into various species/factions. Ie meaning no more demons, devils, yuggoloths, and "lesser" groups, just all being now demons/fiends. Again, all are just various interpretations of demonology and demon-kind. Which I think would if anything, strip D&D of it's unique elements.

quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

I've always used Lynkhab over Malcanthet, Shami or any other succubus, really, as Queen of the Succubi. I enjoyed the irony of the demon queen of desire being unable to obtain her own desires, over Ultra-succubus-just-add-hair-dye #1 and #2.



Well Lynkhab is interesting, but I think she could fully co-exist alongside a Malcanthet/Shami-Amourae type Succubi Queen.

But as I discussed with AuldDragon, Lynkhab curiusly was never named the Queen of Succubi or candidate for position in 2E (ie "Faces of Evil: The Fiends"), only an Abyssal Lord who gained form of divinity or something equivalent, by becoming an embodiment of desire.
Shami-Amourae was still the Queen of Succubi in 2E (something AuldDragon informed me of), as seen in the Road to Danger compilation and 2e update of multiple Dungeon magazine adventures, including "The Stolen Power".
It's not a simple update, as it includes new lore on Shami, including her aliance with Graz'zt, aliases (Shazra and Jezebel), and expanding on Shami's mortal past, which AuldDragon included in his write-up of her.

Lynkhab being a peer in terms of age to Shami-Amourae, is something also only stated in 3E.

Still, Lynkhab being rival to Shami-Amourae to the position of the Queen of Succubi, (though possibly now an ex-rival, due to Lynkhab's state and current mentality) would be something interesting.

Also, about Shami and aliases, I discovered Shami-Amourae has another alias - in Dungeon #136, this alias being Shamarae the Lover, as one of the 3000 Obahs (guardian spirits) of the Mur.

Other Obahs that are aliases of other planar beings, are Balim the Pretender, an alias for Baalzebul; and Wynnarth the Dervish, an alias for Gwynharwyf.
TBeholder Posted - 21 Sep 2023 : 21:32:30
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas


quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Kitchen sinks are the root of many evils.


Personally, I think it's both a flaw and merit, for example for the fact that it show how big/expansive the "mega-setting" of D&D is. But YMMV.

It does not "show how big" it is any more than a stencilling a crude picture with "perspective" on a wall shows how big a building is. And at the quality level of most kitchen sinks, they would probably cause fits of claustrophobia.

Kitchen sinks are created out of laziness, and in turn breed silly mess.
This silly mess degrades the expected levels of content quality.
Lowering quality standards rot everything. The editors will rubber-stamp anything, while lack of requirements for compliance with continuity and other "difficluck" lore encourages the lazy hacks to churn out half-assed content at best and plainly not even bother to make sense at worst (in this case with the complication of Pointy Haired Bosses actively degrading quality, sure, but low starting level surely made the pit deeper).
On the design side, it manifests as piles of "eh, uh, or something", like in d20: stuff that is not well defined, like "darkvision" and worse. It's inevitably bad on a large scale exactly because it has no defined borders (see Sanderson's First Law). It's great to excuse away hackery on C-grade-student level, but does not allow consistent content).
The same effect was even worse (thus more obvious) in Warhammer 40k, where it led to infamous "grimderp" (which is little more than a pretentious version of painting with feces), and as the audience was desensitized to that, occasionally it reached the level of absurdity, such infamous incident of Matt Ward's "Khornate Knights" in 5th Edition.
Since lazy copypasting is already there, if tar and feathers a decisive cure is not applied in time, such things are apt to congeal into a ball of obnoxious hurr look at this reference and roll along the rock bottom.
[ /rant]
Which is why you see people asking "uh, which Earth god|people|... with serial numbers filed off X is?" even here on Candlekeep. Eventually people stop expecting any better than this.
LordofBones Posted - 20 Sep 2023 : 14:27:54
I've always used Lynkhab over Malcanthet, Shami or any other succubus, really, as Queen of the Succubi. I enjoyed the irony of the demon queen of desire being unable to obtain her own desires, over Ultra-succubus-just-add-hair-dye #1 and #2.
Baltas Posted - 19 Sep 2023 : 13:18:34
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder


quote:
Originally posted by Baltas


Yeah, even Lolth seems partially named after Lilith. With this Lilith being just an alias of Shami-Amourae, also makes sense, especially seeing Shami's lore does have some visible similarities to Lilith's story were she started out as mortal (ie a mortal woman from extremelly primeval times that became (one of) the first succubi and queen of them).

...and Legolas! Also starts with "L". Lol.




Well, the similairity between the names Lolth and Lilith, is greater than that, something I'm not the first to notice. Both share the same consonant letters (and even consonants) in English (L,L,T,H), and in Hebrew, Lilith was most probably originally pronouced Liloth ot Lilyot - much more similar to Lolth (this was known already when Gary Gygax was creating Lolth).

They are also similarities between the two, since 1st edition AD&D, if the similarities got greater in latter editions.

quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
And here you pointed right at the source of this problem (and many others): such doplegangers are simply dragged from different existing adaptations by several designers.
Kitchen sinks are the root of many evils.



Personally, I think it's both a flaw and merit, for example for the fact that it show how big/expansive the "mega-setting" of D&D is. But YMMV.
TBeholder Posted - 19 Sep 2023 : 08:50:45
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon


Yeah, the Far Realm was barely a thing in 2e, and there weren't any deities from there in that edition. Car Sargent clearly established her as a resident of Baator. Honestly, I see aboleths as weird and frightening but also still entirely within the normal range of Prime Material creatures.

It was not a thing at all. It appeared as a throwaway plot element in 1 (one) module: The Gates of Firestorm Peak (since the eponymous gates had to lead somewhere "no way no how").
Unfortunately, this appears to have hit one of their editors right in the fetish, seeing how Bruce Cordell could not submit anything without a bunch of hurr durr random tentacles ever after. Which is a shame, as he used to write cool stuff (Illithiad, etc), in large part due to being one of the very few RPG designers who learned biology not from Disney. [ /rant]

quote:
Originally posted by Baltas


Yeah, even Lolth seems partially named after Lilith. With this Lilith being just an alias of Shami-Amourae, also makes sense, especially seeing Shami's lore does have some visible similarities to Lilith's story were she started out as mortal (ie a mortal woman from extremelly primeval times that became (one of) the first succubi and queen of them).

...and Legolas! Also starts with "L". Lol.
quote:

In retrospect, it does seem Shami-Amourae's description (golden haired and white/porcelain skinned), might be inspired by two 19th century paintings of Lilith

And here you pointed right at the source of this problem (and many others): such doplegangers are simply dragged from different existing adaptations by several designers.
Kitchen sinks are the root of many evils.
Baltas Posted - 17 Sep 2023 : 18:26:26
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon

Yeah, the Far Realm was barely a thing in 2e, and there weren't any deities from there in that edition. Car Sargent clearly established her as a resident of Baator. Honestly, I see aboleths as weird and frightening but also still entirely within the normal range of Prime Material creatures.




I thought so, and indeed Aboleths do still seem not that "unnatural" as Far Realm entities. Still, this could be due to them and the Blood Queen becoming "naturalized" to the planes, but it could make more sense if Piscaethces herself was already a spawn of a Far Realm entity born when the entity visited the normal planes (and born already "tainted" by the multiverse). Or that's my take/idea, and I get why you don't want to use the connection to the Far Realm.

quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon

Eh, I mean, you've got Lilith and Lilis (same actual name) as two different entities in 1e, and then this article (which makes no mention of Damh in the bit about Satyrs) proposes her as a succubus, and then I'll have to handle dealing with the existing uses whenever I get to Mesopotamian mythology, I'm inclined to ignore this material. If anything, Shami-Amourae is just known as Lilith in some places or something, if someone *really* wants to incorporate the material. "Lilith" as a name is just WAY too overused in D&D. :)

Jeff



Yeah, even Lolth seems partially named after Lilith. With this Lilith being just an alias of Shami-Amourae, also makes sense, especially seeing Shami's lore does have some visible similarities to Lilith's story were she started out as mortal (ie a mortal woman from extremelly primeval times that became (one of) the first succubi and queen of them).

[EDIT]
In retrospect, it does seem Shami-Amourae's description (golden haired and white/porcelain skinned), might be inspired by two 19th century paintings of Lilith - "Lady Lilith" by Dante Gabriel Rossetti and "Lilith" by John Collier.
AuldDragon Posted - 17 Sep 2023 : 17:50:00
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

Another great entry on Piscaethces!
I see though you ignored, at least largelly her Lords of Madness lore, ie no mention of her connection to the Far Realm.


Yeah, the Far Realm was barely a thing in 2e, and there weren't any deities from there in that edition. Car Sargent clearly established her as a resident of Baator. Honestly, I see aboleths as weird and frightening but also still entirely within the normal range of Prime Material creatures.

quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

I found another obscure entity from 2nd edition lore, though I'm not sure if worshipped, is Lilith the "Greatest of Succubi", introdued in a very late 2E bit of lore in Dragon #266:
quote:
Lilith is the most powerful
succubus and all other
succubi pay homage to her.
Lilith is a foul temptress who seduces
men of great power to destroy and
enslave them. Lilith's usual form is a
woman of unparalleled beauty, but in
whatever form she takes, her legs are
covered with coarse hair. Unfortunately,
Lilith is a mistress of deceit, and victims
rarely see this sign until it is too late.

DMs who wish to introduce this fiend
into a high-level campaign should pre¬
pare a formidable foe, surely of no less
power than an Abyssal Lord.



This was in a series of lore snipets in the article "50 Monster Maximizers" by Brian Corvello.

These Lilith's relation, if any to the Archdevil Consort Lilith (who curiously, is completelly absent in 2E), is unknown, though might be in part, along with reall-life mythology and folkore (the latter more probable) what made the decison to tie the Devil Lilith as the source of succubi in 4E lore (kinda, being the first angel of love, on which all other were based, with angels of love eventually becoming the first succubi; and the queen of Baatorian succubi), and in Green Ronin's "Book of the Rightous". Unless Lilith would be a Tanar'ri infilitrator to Baator like Astaroth.

I would guess Lilith is either a rival to Shami-Amourae, or another alias of her's. A bit regretable I didn't find it earlier, but oh well.



Eh, I mean, you've got Lilith and Lilis (same actual name) as two different entities in 1e, and then this article (which makes no mention of Damh in the bit about Satyrs) proposes her as a succubus, and then I'll have to handle dealing with the existing uses whenever I get to Mesopotamian mythology, I'm inclined to ignore this material. If anything, Shami-Amourae is just known as Lilith in some places or something, if someone *really* wants to incorporate the material. "Lilith" as a name is just WAY too overused in D&D. :)

Jeff
Baltas Posted - 17 Sep 2023 : 17:26:43
Another great entry on Piscaethces!
I see though you ignored, at least largelly her Lords of Madness lore, ie no mention of her connection to the Far Realm.

I found another obscure entity from 2nd edition lore, though I'm not sure if worshipped, is Lilith the "Greatest of Succubi", introdued in a very late 2E bit of lore in Dragon #266:
quote:
Lilith is the most powerful
succubus and all other
succubi pay homage to her.
Lilith is a foul temptress who seduces
men of great power to destroy and
enslave them. Lilith's usual form is a
woman of unparalleled beauty, but in
whatever form she takes, her legs are
covered with coarse hair. Unfortunately,
Lilith is a mistress of deceit, and victims
rarely see this sign until it is too late.

DMs who wish to introduce this fiend
into a high-level campaign should pre¬
pare a formidable foe, surely of no less
power than an Abyssal Lord.



This was in a series of lore snipets in the article "50 Monster Maximizers" by Brian Corvello.

These Lilith's relation, if any to the Archdevil Consort Lilith (who curiously, is completelly absent in 2E), is unknown, though might be in part, along with reall-life mythology and folkore (the latter more probable) what made the decison to tie the Devil Lilith as the source of succubi in 4E lore (kinda, being the first angel of love, on which all other were based, with angels of love eventually becoming the first succubi; and the queen of Baatorian succubi), and in Green Ronin's "Book of the Rightous". Unless Lilith would be a Tanar'ri infilitrator to Baator like Astaroth.

I would guess Lilith is either a rival to Shami-Amourae, or another alias of her's. A bit regretable I didn't find it earlier, but oh well.
AuldDragon Posted - 01 Sep 2023 : 06:23:16
Piscaethces the Blood Queen: https://bit.ly/3Z0XY5U

The creator of the aboleths, known as Piscaethces the Blood Queen, lives deep in a hidden bog-cavern in Minauros. She is a lethargic power despite her desire to guide her followers to domination of all other creatures. She is, however, known to send her occasional offspring to Prime Material Plane, where they often become among the most powerful of savants.

Jeff
AuldDragon Posted - 02 Aug 2023 : 00:19:13
Chan, the Princess of Good Air: https://bit.ly/44NypqR

The first of the archomentals of good is Chan, the Princess of Good Air Creatures. She wages an endless information cold war with her rival Yan-C-Bin while wondering the Elemental Plane of Air and the Prime Material Plane engaging in subtle acts of goodness that lead to much larger long-term effects.

Jeff
AuldDragon Posted - 03 Jul 2023 : 19:13:22
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Hmmm, the story of the insectare could fit well if the original "insectares" were Abeil. They are from 3.5 and have a slightly elven look.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Abeil

I had never heard of this race before your article on their god. I like your idea of the elves performing some kind of high magic that changes the race. I have a couple other proposals for you that might be the truth OR they might be heresies....


Yeah, they only show up in a couple places in Spelljammer. They essentially exist as a potential "working from the shadows" villain.

I'm not familiar with the Abeil.


quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

What if what the elves did was magically modify an Abeil queen to have a womb instead of laying eggs, and thus making her able to mate with her elf lover. This may have made the other Abeil queens think of her and her children as abominations.


If the offspring were the insectare, I don't think they would hate the elves, unless the magic was intended to affect one individual and changed the whole race.


quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Its obvious that with the green skin on these insectares they they were hinting at the insect side being something like grasshoppers or praying mantises (so possibly hidden links to thri-kreen or similar races). But what if the green comes from something else? What if the "elven" looks could be better described as "fey"... and what if the insectare race comes from a breeding of the flower loving abeil and a plant based fey race "like" dryads... that bind to giant flowers instead of trees? That might even explain the priests never leaving their homeworld, perhaps all insectare "queens" are flowerbound. If this were true, it might add to the idea that elves get so mad for being accused of creating them. This could even add into things like their unusually long antennae as being "vine-like".


So the Monstrous Compendium writeup for the Insectare is pretty interesting. For one thing, it lists their organization as "Clan" rather than "Hive," and mentions they live in hollowed out "mountains" that are "probably a remnant of their insect heritage." Termites build those types of mounds, and they're closely related to grasshoppers (only cockroaches and mantises are more closely related), so I figured their original form was a combination of the two, considering their ship designs and how they live. Add in that they are supposed to be unseen as they work to undermine organizations, it fits a termite theme, I think. :)

I specifically tied them in to the creation of bionoids and spirit warriors because they're so closely tied to the elves, and it would fit as something they'd push hard to get completed during the First Unhuman War.


quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

If this second option were true... it might be something where the god, Klikral, has two forms... the male being like an insect like male, and the female like a green skinned flower fey. I picture this possibly being something where an evil fey plant goddess turned some abeil from serving their queen, and getting these abeil to mate with her fey servants. Being an evil fey she might not like elves.

You know... I think I actually like this second option. Even if its not the "insectare" it could make a really interesting race that links the idea of beefolk and fey flowerfolk mating. The male and females sides of their races may be significantly different with the females being more dryad-like (and thus their eye differences as well). Creating new females may require some sacrifice of magic to bond a newborn to a giant form of flower, which might explain why the males are out thieving magic where they can find it to bring it home.



Glad to see the creative juices flowing! :D

Jeff
sleyvas Posted - 03 Jul 2023 : 15:54:51
Hmmm, the story of the insectare could fit well if the original "insectares" were Abeil. They are from 3.5 and have a slightly elven look.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Abeil

I had never heard of this race before your article on their god. I like your idea of the elves performing some kind of high magic that changes the race. I have a couple other proposals for you that might be the truth OR they might be heresies....

What if what the elves did was magically modify an Abeil queen to have a womb instead of laying eggs, and thus making her able to mate with her elf lover. This may have made the other Abeil queens think of her and her children as abominations.

Its obvious that with the green skin on these insectares they they were hinting at the insect side being something like grasshoppers or praying mantises (so possibly hidden links to thri-kreen or similar races). But what if the green comes from something else? What if the "elven" looks could be better described as "fey"... and what if the insectare race comes from a breeding of the flower loving abeil and a plant based fey race "like" dryads... that bind to giant flowers instead of trees? That might even explain the priests never leaving their homeworld, perhaps all insectare "queens" are flowerbound. If this were true, it might add to the idea that elves get so mad for being accused of creating them. This could even add into things like their unusually long antennae as being "vine-like".

If this second option were true... it might be something where the god, Klikral, has two forms... the male being like an insect like male, and the female like a green skinned flower fey. I picture this possibly being something where an evil fey plant goddess turned some abeil from serving their queen, and getting these abeil to mate with her fey servants. Being an evil fey she might not like elves.

You know... I think I actually like this second option. Even if its not the "insectare" it could make a really interesting race that links the idea of beefolk and fey flowerfolk mating. The male and females sides of their races may be significantly different with the females being more dryad-like (and thus their eye differences as well). Creating new females may require some sacrifice of magic to bond a newborn to a giant form of flower, which might explain why the males are out thieving magic where they can find it to bring it home.
AuldDragon Posted - 01 Jul 2023 : 06:45:51
Klikral, the Master of the Mound: https://bit.ly/443SxVF

The enigmatic insectare are a race of insect creatures with an elf-like appearance, first appearing in the second Spelljammer Monstrous Compendium appendix (MC09). Little is known about them other than their reclusive nature and desire to rule the spacelanes by undermining the Imperial Navy and other organizations; neither is there much known about their deity, Klikral. I chose to explore what their connection to the elven peoples are in this writeup of that little-detailed instectoid god.

Jeff
AuldDragon Posted - 01 Jun 2023 : 05:58:45
Orcus, the Demon Prince of Undeath: https://bit.ly/42n1tU5

One of the most infamous of Abyssal lords, and star villain of a pair of Planescape modules, Orcus is the Demon Prince of Undeath. Once arguably the most powerful of the tanar'ri, he was slain by Kiaransalee, but perhaps unsurprisingly, he managed to return as the undead Tenebrous. With this loss of status and following, he is now attempting to rebuild his strength in a more surreptitious fashion.

Jeff
AuldDragon Posted - 02 May 2023 : 04:50:49
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

You know... until this article I had never really thought much about him and how he might be used. As with many of the things you write, the reading of it spawns ideas in my head. What just popped into my own head is the fact that Realmspace's sun is ACTUALLY a planet that has been set afire and has NUMEROUS portals to the elemental plane of fire on it. What if this is a battleground where Imix has forces that work against OTHER forces of fire? By that, I mean the forces of not only Zaaman Rul, but possibly even the forces of Surtr (who is a god of realmspace), Garyx (also a god of realmspace I still believe), or even primordials like Bazim-Gorag the Firebringer and his slaad followers. Maybe there's something ON this planet that they might all want to control, and that's WHY there's so many portals for fire to this place. Maybe there's also portals to radiance on the sun and there's fights between the powers of fire and radiance. Not sure where to exactly take this, but figured this might be a good way to explain why the people on the sun aren't rampaging elsewhere.



Good stuff! Fire bodies should have just as much variety of life and civilizations as earth worlds, so it's always worth thinking about what things are going on on them. :)

It's a shame most fiery creatures that get put on them are from the Elemental Plane of Fire; there should be more native Prime Material creatures.

Jeff
sleyvas Posted - 01 May 2023 : 23:34:05
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon

Imix, the Prince of Evil Fire: https://bit.ly/40LRvLm

The ruthless Prince of Evil Fire Creatures is Imix, a warlord who strives to dominate all with his fiery destruction. He plans and strategizes in steps, completing one before moving to the next. it is widely held that should he succeed in his current war against Olhydra, no other archomental would be able to match his power.

Jeff



You know... until this article I had never really thought much about him and how he might be used. As with many of the things you write, the reading of it spawns ideas in my head. What just popped into my own head is the fact that Realmspace's sun is ACTUALLY a planet that has been set afire and has NUMEROUS portals to the elemental plane of fire on it. What if this is a battleground where Imix has forces that work against OTHER forces of fire? By that, I mean the forces of not only Zaaman Rul, but possibly even the forces of Surtr (who is a god of realmspace), Garyx (also a god of realmspace I still believe), or even primordials like Bazim-Gorag the Firebringer and his slaad followers. Maybe there's something ON this planet that they might all want to control, and that's WHY there's so many portals for fire to this place. Maybe there's also portals to radiance on the sun and there's fights between the powers of fire and radiance. Not sure where to exactly take this, but figured this might be a good way to explain why the people on the sun aren't rampaging elsewhere.
AuldDragon Posted - 01 May 2023 : 07:23:07
Imix, the Prince of Evil Fire: https://bit.ly/40LRvLm

The ruthless Prince of Evil Fire Creatures is Imix, a warlord who strives to dominate all with his fiery destruction. He plans and strategizes in steps, completing one before moving to the next. it is widely held that should he succeed in his current war against Olhydra, no other archomental would be able to match his power.

Jeff
AuldDragon Posted - 07 Mar 2023 : 18:35:29
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

You know, I know you're writing this for 2e, but this Kavor guy would make a great primordial. Having the gravs be psionic individuals using telekinetic powers rather than wizardry would also seem to work well with them. Their elites might actually be classed as psion type and/or artificer type classes rather than wizards. Having them use psionic power to make their weapons heavier on impact, pr making something akin to oil of impact, etc...



Nothing wrong with adapting it to other edition's paradigms. :) I don't really see them as psionic or telekinetic, but that's no reason they couldn't be. :)

Jeff
sleyvas Posted - 06 Mar 2023 : 22:15:16
You know, I know you're writing this for 2e, but this Kavor guy would make a great primordial. Having the gravs be psionic individuals using telekinetic powers rather than wizardry would also seem to work well with them. Their elites might actually be classed as psion type and/or artificer type classes rather than wizards. Having them use psionic power to make their weapons heavier on impact, pr making something akin to oil of impact, etc...
AuldDragon Posted - 02 Mar 2023 : 21:10:58
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Heavy..... {snaps fingers like a hippie from 1970's tv}



I may have gone overboard slipping words like that into his description. ;D

Jeff
sleyvas Posted - 02 Mar 2023 : 20:36:17
Heavy..... {snaps fingers like a hippie from 1970's tv}
AuldDragon Posted - 01 Mar 2023 : 06:20:21
Kavor the Lord of Gravity: http://bit.ly/3IAVHGR

One of the more interesting and less-developed races in Spelljammer were the stout grav, a race of miners who are able to manipulate gravity. The material presented for them makes no actual mention of a deity or faith that they follow or even priests, but it typically strikes me as unusual when races have no deities in D&D. Since the grav have featured heavily in the current leg of my Spelljammer campaign, it gave me ample opportunity to work on their culture and faith, and so I created the deity Kavor for them.

Jeff
Baltas Posted - 06 Feb 2023 : 22:21:06
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon

Not really inspired by anything in particular other than she's known to have done evil stuff even before her fall. I like there being lots of stories that crop up to explain mysterious things that aren't explained, both to muddy the waters and to inspire other people who want to make something in particular "true" in their own campaign. Kanchelsis is canonically a visitor to drow cities to enjoy his particular brand of pleasure, so it seemed like a reasonable story that people would tell (plus, people tend to be fans of piling all the wrongs they can think of at the feet of their enemies). :)



Yeah, that makes sense.

quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon

We know that there are non-archomentals who claim that status (Bwimb/Bwimb II, Chilimba, and Ehkahk), it seems reasonable that there might be some powerful individuals who claim to be archomentals but aren't really. That's what I see Unguliustuk, considering he is from a 1e Dungeon adventure at a time when there weren't good archomentals but Imix, Ogremoch, and the like were all *examples* of a larger group. With 2e making it reasonably clear that there are only two on each of the four elemental planes, plus Cryonax, I see Unguliustuk downgraded like the other paraelemental lords. If I were to run a campaign on Elemental Earth, I would either treat Entemoch the same or make him an alias of Sunnis.




Your right, Bwimb, Bwimb II, Chilimba, and Ehkahk (as well as Quasi-archomentals), do fit of the categgory of not quite troe Archomentals, and could be an example of what Unguliustuk and (possibly) Entemoch would be (if both being claimant to title, that is held by an actual Archomental).

quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon

There were some interesting legendary/mythical Mesoamerican figures I considered but they didn't quite fit I felt.



Interesting - who were they?

quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon
I always figured her name essentially means "fake love" (sham amor). :)



That's quite possible


quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon

The material makes it pretty clear she is *incredibly* old. I doubt her original form would be recognizable, except maybe to the Juna. I suspect she has just adapted her preferences to the common life forms that tanar'ri prey upon now.



Hmm, yes, though confusingly, The Ultimate Helm novel presented (confusingly) humanity as very old race, and were along the Juna among the species evacuated from the First Sphere/Broken Sphere/Ouiyan.

Her share age, is also why I suggested Shami-Amourae could be a member of a "similar" race to elves, humanity, or half-elves.
Mentioned in Spelljammer, there were the Reigar (who are themselves extremelly ancient, but younger than Juna), who kinda have traits similar to humans and kinda/to a degree elves.

I also thought of LeShay from 3E and up (though who were identfied in larte 3E with the Fey Creator Race of Toril's Creator Races - which was introduced in 2E), who are extremelly old - according to their lore from ther first apperance (in The Epic Level Handbook), predating the current multiverse in some capacity:
quote:
LeShay are the mere remnant of a once-great race
whose origins are lost to history. They claim to predate the
current multiverse and refer darkly to some catastrophe
that not only wiped out most of their people but changed
time so that their era never existed, even in the remotest
past. Attempting to undo the catastrophe would apparently
result in another disaster even more terrible, so the deci-
mated survivors—less than gods but more than mortals—
for the most part merely attempt to amuse them selves and
stave off ennui as they work out their individual destinies.


Though latter editions made them less ancient.

They also appear elven of with some traits of half-elves, and are albinos, the latter kinda close to Shami-Amourae's looks (if she has golden, not pale white hair):
quote:
As elves are to humans, so are leShay to the elves (but more
so): a race immortal, enigmatic, and exceptionally powerful.
LeShay look like tall, thin, albino elves, except that
they lack the oversized ears of true elves (leShay ears
look more like half-elf ears) and, while they have the
glossy dead-white hair of true albinos, their eyes are pits
of darkness.



They do resemble some races from earlier edition lore - the Sie from 2E Cerilia (the Birthright setting); the mentioned before Fey Creator Race of Faerun; and from Basic D&D/Mystara the Sidhe (Sidhe, and Fey in general in Mystara even coming from a previous cycle of the multiverse, one were Chaos/Entropy ruled, and compromised multiple spheres) and Eldar (though Eldar are contriversial, as their storyline/lore contradicts a lot of other, previous Mystara lore).

Though Shami-Amourae being of a completelly different looking (than her current self and preffered worshippers and sacrifices) race/species, is also very possible (even more so), but I just thought these posibilities (Reigar, LeShay, or another similar, early humanoid race) could be interesting.

quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon

Considering she only appeared in a single adventure and then in the reprint and update to the adventure, it's fair that later writers missed her when they wanted a queen of succubi figure, and it was only afterwards that it was pointed out that there was already one. :)



Yeah, that probably was the case. Still, the certain similarities between the two, even beyond being Queens of Sucubi, are interesting. Though I guess it could just both share similar or even the same inspirations.

Mod edit: fixed some stray coding so the post would look right
AuldDragon Posted - 06 Feb 2023 : 18:05:10
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

Great articles!

Kanchelsis is a great addition. Is Lolth being possibly connected to his creation, inspired by Drow Vampire 2E lore suggesting Lolth is the source of (their strain of?) vampirism, or connection of Vlad Tolenkov to both?


Not really inspired by anything in particular other than she's known to have done evil stuff even before her fall. I like there being lots of stories that crop up to explain mysterious things that aren't explained, both to muddy the waters and to inspire other people who want to make something in particular "true" in their own campaign. Kanchelsis is canonically a visitor to drow cities to enjoy his particular brand of pleasure, so it seemed like a reasonable story that people would tell (plus, people tend to be fans of piling all the wrongs they can think of at the feet of their enemies). :)

quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

The connection/romance with Eshebala, and them representing a male and female personification of the dark side of elven nature, is very interesting, and fitting new lore for them.


They definitely seem to have some shared interests regardless of connections! :D

quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

With Entemoch or Sunnis, fans for years wondered if they are the same enity or two separate ones. It's possible for them to be one - Near-Powers were known to have aspects (if not in the 3E meanig)/forms, for example Verin with his aspect as Ztefano. Also curiosly, Grumbar, Ogremoch's and Entemoch's possible father, has a female aspect on Toril - Etugen.
If separate, I wonder if they are one related. Lovers or some other form of partnership? Maybe one is the the child of the other? If Sunnis is Entemoch's mother with Grumbar, she could also be the mother of Ogremoch, who moved to an opposite alignement to his mother (possibly influenced by the Elder Elemental God?).
With Unguliustûk - great find of this obscure Archomental. I think (when not considered as an alias of Ogremoch), he could be the previous Archomental of Evil Earth, deposed by Ogremoch.


We know that there are non-archomentals who claim that status (Bwimb/Bwimb II, Chilimba, and Ehkahk), it seems reasonable that there might be some powerful individuals who claim to be archomentals but aren't really. That's what I see Unguliustuk, considering he is from a 1e Dungeon adventure at a time when there weren't good archomentals but Imix, Ogremoch, and the like were all *examples* of a larger group. With 2e making it reasonably clear that there are only two on each of the four elemental planes, plus Cryonax, I see Unguliustuk downgraded like the other paraelemental lords. If I were to run a campaign on Elemental Earth, I would either treat Entemoch the same or make him an alias of Sunnis.

quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

With Megwandir, it's fascinating that she could be either Lolth or the Queen of Air and Darkness. But she might had been both, in context of some obscure lore.


I really put that in purely as a "what would elves say on a world with snow elves but no drow?" They'd of course blame the other major evil deity known to the elves.

quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

Or that's my idea, and it's 4th edition influenced, so I’m not sure how much you would like it.


It's pretty interesting, and I can understand why it is compelling for some people, but for me, it feels more like something you'd find in Marvel Comics rather than real mythology. But that's entirely on me. :)

quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

With Shami-Amourae, it's great to see the OG Succubus Queen to getting more attention.
I like how the 6 Succubi from her retinue, are named after various succubi, or similar entities from reall life folklore, except Phryne, who is named after a famous Greek courtesan.


Lemme tell ya, I had a hard time coming up with six names who fit, who weren't already in use, weren't clearly too powerful (i.e. would likely be a separate unique-if-minor demoness), and weren't *all* from the same basic source. That's one of the reasons I put Phryne in. :)

There were some interesting legendary/mythical Mesoamerican figures I considered but they didn't quite fit I felt.

quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

With reall life inspiration, I wondered if the "Shami" part of Shami-Amourae name isn't derived either from Samael (sometimes spelled Samil or Shemal, and who is either Lilith's partner, or even her male aspect, as decribed in the 12th century Treatise on the Left Emanation, and latter Zohar), or Samyaza (possible spellings include "Samiaza(z)", or "Shamazya"), both connected to lust in folklore.
If Shami-Amourae has a quite a different origin to them (especially in 1e and 2e), more similar to Lilith's from Alphabet of Ben Sira (and later sources inspiired y it), or Zohra/Zahra/Istahar from Jewish and Arabic stories about Samyaza. It would be a distorted/corrupted spelling, but so is "Amourae" - being a corruption of of "Amor" (the deity's name) or "amour".


I always figured her name essentially means "fake love" (sham amor). :)

quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

With her preference for human, elven or half-elven worshippers and sacrifices (as mentioned in lore since 1e in general), I wondered if in life she was a member of these races, or of a similar race.
(Elves had a "spirit" that reincarnated in 1E, but I think if the spirit advanced from larvae to succubus, I think it would stop/derail the process).


The material makes it pretty clear she is *incredibly* old. I doubt her original form would be recognizable, except maybe to the Juna. I suspect she has just adapted her preferences to the common life forms that tanar'ri prey upon now.

quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

Kanchelsis' and her's antagonism has sense, seeing the set-up. I'm personaly though a bit disapointed Greater Vampires (spawned by succubi), were not touched uppon (and how it plays into the two's antagonism), though I guess them not being mentioned since 1E's Lords of Darkness, might be part of the reason.


I can't say I'm familiar with them; I'll take a look at that product again (it's been a while). I think by 2e Ravenloft had the definitive material on powerful vampires.

quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

In retrospect, it's a bit odd 3E writers didn't just describe Malcanthet as an alias/aspect of Shami-Amourae (and I write this liking both Succubi Queens), though I guess they just wanted them as separate entities.



Considering she only appeared in a single adventure and then in the reprint and update to the adventure, it's fair that later writers missed her when they wanted a queen of succubi figure, and it was only afterwards that it was pointed out that there was already one. :)

Jeff
Baltas Posted - 05 Feb 2023 : 00:22:28
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta

Neat thoughts Baltas!




Thanks, glad you found them interesting
TomCosta Posted - 04 Feb 2023 : 15:35:27
Neat thoughts Baltas!
Baltas Posted - 03 Feb 2023 : 21:07:47
Great articles!

Kanchelsis is a great addition. Is Lolth being possibly connected to his creation, inspired by Drow Vampire 2E lore suggesting Lolth is the source of (their strain of?) vampirism, or connection of Vlad Tolenkov to both?

The connection/romance with Eshebala, and them representing a male and female personification of the dark side of elven nature, is very interesting, and fitting new lore for them.

With Entemoch or Sunnis, fans for years wondered if they are the same enity or two separate ones. It's possible for them to be one - Near-Powers were known to have aspects (if not in the 3E meanig)/forms, for example Verin with his aspect as Ztefano. Also curiosly, Grumbar, Ogremoch's and Entemoch's possible father, has a female aspect on Toril - Etugen.
If separate, I wonder if they are one related. Lovers or some other form of partnership? Maybe one is the the child of the other? If Sunnis is Entemoch's mother with Grumbar, she could also be the mother of Ogremoch, who moved to an opposite alignement to his mother (possibly influenced by the Elder Elemental God?).
With Unguliustûk - great find of this obscure Archomental. I think (when not considered as an alias of Ogremoch), he could be the previous Archomental of Evil Earth, deposed by Ogremoch.

With Megwandir, it's fascinating that she could be either Lolth or the Queen of Air and Darkness. But she might had been both, in context of some obscure lore.

You see, after I asked Brian R. James on the details of what is the real relationship between Auril and the Queen of Air and Darkness, he explained:

quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James

Baltas asks a great question about the true nature of Auril, the Frostmaiden. During my time as a Forgotten Realms designer I attempted to weave plot threads into lore that would be slowly revealed over time. The redemption of Auril was one such thread. Sadly, WotC moved in a different direction and I was unable to deliver the full story as I had envisioned. The short version is this:

For the first time in several millennia Auril is now free from the corrupting influence of the Queen of Air and Darkness. The two were once separate entities, then conjoined as one, and are now separate again. After regaining her freedom and true identity following the events of the Stormstar Requiem, Aurilandür is now aligned with Silvanus who is aiding the Frostmaiden in repairing her relationship with the Seelie Court of Stars.

Clearly, WotC is moving forward with Auril being evil, as shown in the previews for the upcoming adventure Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden. In my view, the antagonist of that adventure is in fact the Queen of Air and Darkness, now falsely masquerading as Auril while seeking a new host to corrupt with the Black Diamond.



quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James

quote:
Queen of Air and Darkness

The oldest myths and legends tell of a race of vile entities that once presided over the remains of a dying universe. These immortal beings of evil incarnate had drained their realm of all life and power. So it was that in the last age of their race, these entities breached the barrier between their realm and ours, pushing shards of unspeakable evil through the fissure between realities. With the power of the shards, they hoped to corrupt the most powerful beings of our cosmos into enacting their vile schemes.

Eons passed as the scions of elemental evil slowly succumbed to oblivion. When only a handful of their kind remained, the plan they had enacted so long ago finally came to fruition. A divinity from our realm, capricious and curious to a fault, found and took hold of the shard of evil. To the archfey Aurilandür, the shard appeared as a black ten-faceted jewel, looming entropy reflected in its soulless gloaming.

This unwise act opened the archfey’s thoughts and essence to the vile entities trapped in their collapsing universe. The link from the Black Diamond corrupted the fey goddess in an instant, transforming the once cheerful and benevolent Frost Sprite Queen into a cold and hateful husk of her former self. Wretched beyond any hope of her own physical death, Aurilandür retreated into the dark subconscious of the entity that had subsumed her—the Queen of Air and Darkness.
—Demonomicon of Iggwilv





It also neatly combines with a bit of Crinti folklore (documented in tomes found in libraries of Halruaa), about a Dark Elf/Ilythiiri wzard, corrupted by Unseelie, who became Known as the "Spider Queen".
To stop her, Lolth absorbed her, it altering her, and to be the source of her Queen of Spiders title.
(from Elaine Cunningham 2000 novel “The Magehound”.)

This legend seems to not be 100% true, but it's possible Lolth, or perhaps even Araushnee (the origin of the story being earlier in time), absorbed a Fey Dark Elf (possessed by the Black Diamond/The Queen of Air and Darkness), and this was in part at least the cause for her evil (if she avoided being subsumed The Queen of Air and Darkness).
My theory is also based on the fact, in Elaine Cunningham "Evermeet: Island of Elves", Araushnee becomes a Spider Demon right before she is banished to the Abyss, suggesting to me this legend's origin had to take place before elves came to Toril, and before Araushnee was banished.

Hence it's possible if this would be this scenario, Megwandir was Araushnee merged with the Queen of Air and Darkness. After, or rather during this, the Black Diamond/The Queen of Air and Darkness left Araushnee, and corrupted/merged Aurilandür (this possibly being a plan of both the Queen of Air and Darkness and Araushnee).
Or that's my idea, and it's 4th edition influenced, so I’m not sure how much you would like it.

With Shami-Amourae, it's great to see the OG Succubus Queen to getting more attention.
I like how the 6 Succubi from her retinue, are named after various succubi, or similar entities from reall life folklore, except Phryne, who is named after a famous Greek courtesan.

With reall life inspiration, I wondered if the "Shami" part of Shami-Amourae name isn't derived either from Samael (sometimes spelled Samil or Shemal, and who is either Lilith's partner, or even her male aspect, as decribed in the 12th century Treatise on the Left Emanation, and latter Zohar), or Samyaza (possible spellings include "Samiaza(z)", or "Shamazya"), both connected to lust in folklore.
If Shami-Amourae has a quite a different origin to them (especially in 1e and 2e), more similar to Lilith's from Alphabet of Ben Sira (and later sources inspiired y it), or Zohra/Zahra/Istahar from Jewish and Arabic stories about Samyaza. It would be a distorted/corrupted spelling, but so is "Amourae" - being a corruption of of "Amor" (the deity's name) or "amour".

With her preference for human, elven or half-elven worshippers and sacrifices (as mentioned in lore since 1e in general), I wondered if in life she was a member of these races, or of a similar race.
(Elves had a "spirit" that reincarnated in 1E, but I think if the spirit advanced from larvae to succubus, I think it would stop/derail the process).

Kanchelsis' and her's antagonism has sense, seeing the set-up. I'm personaly though a bit disapointed Greater Vampires (spawned by succubi), were not touched uppon (and how it plays into the two's antagonism), though I guess them not being mentioned since 1E's Lords of Darkness, might be part of the reason.

With Malcanthet, she is indeed a 3E creation (described as such in her
Demonomicon of Iggwilv article). She was created by Robert J. Kunzt for the adventure "Maure Castle" in Dungeon #112. James Jacobs in the same article suggested he wonders if Malcanthet is not perhaps in part or subconsciously inspired by Shami-Amourae and Lynkhab:
quote:
Of course, the actual concept of a "queen of the succubi" is hardly new to D&D. Back in DUNGEON #5, Robert Kelk's adventure "The Stolen Power" introduced Shami-Amourae, while in second edition's Planescape setting we learned about Lynkhab.


(Though Lynkhab was never directly described as a Queen of Succubi in Faces of Evil: The Fiends.)

But the similarities between Malcanthet and Shami-Amourae, are quite deep. Both are connected to Demogorgon (indeed, Shami-Amourae was described outright as Demogorgon's lover first time 3E, like Malcanthet was characterized), and are not exactly loyal to him (though only suggested in 2E, but outright stated in 3E with Malcanthet.
Both even use near the same symbol - one of Shami-Amourae's symbols are blood-red feminine lips with protruding fangs; Malcanthet's symbol are feminine lips, the lower of which is pierced with an iron thorn that drips a single drop of blood. Both are described as very intelligent and manipulative.

In retrospect, it's a bit odd 3E writers didn't just describe Malcanthet as an alias/aspect of Shami-Amourae (and I write this liking both Succubi Queens), though I guess they just wanted them as separate entities.
AuldDragon Posted - 03 Feb 2023 : 21:05:33
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

Really hurt you didn't like my write-up in Dungeon #148. :-(

--Eric

<joking>



quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

Really hurt you didn't like my write-up in Dungeon #148. :-(

--Eric

<joking>





In all seriousness, it's great, it just conflicts with the material in Dungeon #5/Road to Danger. :)

Jeff

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