| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Jeff_K |
Posted - 19 Oct 2004 : 20:53:46
I was wondering... how did Bane and Bhaal get resurrected? And where can I stay up to date on Forgotten Realms events like that? It's frustrating, being the only nerd who doesn't know what's going on. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Xysma |
Posted - 10 Aug 2005 : 16:22:29
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I think the problem is that while the final book of the original Moonshae trilogy might have come out after the Avatar books, the actual trilogy takes place several years before the Avatar trilogy, thus, Bhaal was not resurrected in order to cause trouble in the Moonshaes, but did this several years before his avatar was cast down by Ao in the first place. Sometimes it can get confusion, becuase not all novels happen in the order that they get published, and since trilogies take years sometimes to finally roll out, newer books may provided information on a given being or place that was dealt with in what would eventually be an earlier source.
For example, the Last Mythal books out now take place a year after the Year of Rogue Dragons trilogy, but the Year of Rogue Dragons books will not be finished until May of next year.
That's a good point, I remember thinking that when I first picked up Forsaken House. In this case, Darkwell was released in February '98 and Shadowdale was released in June '98. So although the Moonshae trilogy was complete by the time the Avatar series came out, there is a definite disparity in the chronology of the two series. Darkwell took place in 1346, and Shadowdale began in 1358, a gap of only a few months in Earth time covered 12 years of Realms time. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 10 Aug 2005 : 15:58:06
I think the problem is that while the final book of the original Moonshae trilogy might have come out after the Avatar books, the actual trilogy takes place several years before the Avatar trilogy, thus, Bhaal was not resurrected in order to cause trouble in the Moonshaes, but did this several years before his avatar was cast down by Ao in the first place. Sometimes it can get confusion, becuase not all novels happen in the order that they get published, and since trilogies take years sometimes to finally roll out, newer books may provided information on a given being or place that was dealt with in what would eventually be an earlier source.
For example, the Last Mythal books out now take place a year after the Year of Rogue Dragons trilogy, but the Year of Rogue Dragons books will not be finished until May of next year. |
| Xysma |
Posted - 10 Aug 2005 : 15:34:24
quote:
Originally posted by Shayan
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff_K
I read something about Bhaal being resurrected, but I can't remember where. All I know is that it had something to do with Mask, and Bhaal became Neutral Evil instead of Lawful Evil.
Hi, after I read through this topic I was also convinced that I saw somewhere that Bhaal was resurrected, contrary to the posts...I couldn't get to sleep without finding out where, and finally I found it!
The site claims that the information provided is from TSR, its official etc, however I guess all you guys can't be wrong. The resurrection of Bhaal is a big deal afterall...
So here is the Quote from the site:
http://www.io.com/~jwetzler/history.htm
quote:
Some time later, Lord Ao returned to resurrect the Lord of Murder in the Moonshae Isles. Bhaal's second coming was short-lived, and Cyric became the official caretaker of the Church of Assassins. Meanwhile, Cyric joined forces with Mask (Lord of Shadows) to murder Leira, Lady of the Mists, giving Cyric the powers of Deception and Illusion.
It goes into no detail as to how and why...
Does the inclusion of Hall of Heroes in it's reference material mean that it could be fictional?
(Sorry  I'm just getting into the D&D Realmslore -mainly interested in gods)
Shayan, that was true at one point in time. Bhaal was defeated in the Moonshae trilogy by Tristan using the Sword of Cymric Hugh. He was greatly weakened but not completely destroyed, and he later returned. During the Time of Troubles Cyric killed Bhaal using with the powerful sword Godsbane <highlight spoiler> which was in fact the god Mask. So, as it stands today in Faerun, Bhaal is once again a dead god. However, there are still followers of Bhaal, and according to an article in Dragon (I believe issues 322) someone is granting followers of Bhaal divine spells and Domains. |
| tauster |
Posted - 05 Jul 2005 : 09:08:46
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Hmmm... does anyone know if Waukeen had started to take revenge on Grazz't yet?
I think it would be more interesting if Graz'zt treated Waukeen well during her stay with him and that an admiration grew between the two, perhaps even the seed of love. I think it would make for a really good story if Waukeen and Graz'zt ended up becoming lovers.
as good as such a story might be, i´d think one glance at the cover of "for duty and deity" shows that waukeen wasn´t treated well enough to fall in love with grazz´t. and besides, iirc, i believe in the adventure both didn´t met in person after grazz´t imprisoned her, so there wouldn´t even be an opportunity for falling in love.
...apart from waukeen becoming a victim of the stockholm syndrome...
i think there´s enough story potential in the revenge-plot, and it makes a good frame for your love-plot: just include a npc that believes the "fallen-in-love-story" and acts according to her believes (making her/him a wildcard). alternatively (the better idea, i think) (s)he could be sent out by grazz´t or waukeen, either as part of a plot to recapture the enterprising goddess or as part of waukeens revenge.
tauster |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 04 Jul 2005 : 23:08:16
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Hmmm... does anyone know if Waukeen had started to take revenge on Grazz't yet?
I think it would be more interesting if Graz'zt treated Waukeen well during her stay with him and that an admiration grew between the two, perhaps even the seed of love. I think it would make for a really good story if Waukeen and Graz'zt ended up becoming lovers. |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 04 Jul 2005 : 16:52:09
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
But can anything be done to fix that place up?
Perhaps nothing short of divine magic, or elven High Magic/epic spells? |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 02 Jul 2005 : 01:24:39
A pity that the website did not mention the halfing, dragon, giant and wrym deities during the ToT. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 02 Jul 2005 : 00:10:53
Bane and Torm slew each other in combat, but Ao resurrected Torm. Bane later sprang forth from his son, Iyachtu Xvim.
Cyric slew Bhaal with the aid of a powerful magical sword, Godsbane.
Myrkul was slain by Midnight.
Ibrandul was slain by Shar.
For more info about what the deities were doing during the Time of Troubles, look here. Be warned: if you've not read the Avatar books, there are some spoilers. |
| ode904 |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 23:08:14
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Bhaal was slain at Boareskyr Bridge, which spans the Winding Water. From there to Trollclaw Ford the river is poisonous, because it absorbed his essence.
Yeah. Can someone tell how were different gods killed?
I would remember that Tyr was killed in battle, and rvived after the time of troubles |
| ode904 |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 23:06:00
Am i right?
Tyr was resurrected by Somewhat Over God.
ANd i have read that other gods were revived but i dont remember names.
And Bhaal and Bane remain dead liek they should |
| The Sage |
Posted - 16 Jan 2005 : 09:01:53
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
Actually, there was more to it than just that. Graz'zt has a habit of thinking "big". Tales of the Infinite Staircase provides more than enough detailing on Graz'zt's true ambitions.
Does it? Maybe that's why I decided to obtain that book... I just got it the other day, but with all that's been going on, I couldn't recall why I wanted it! 
SB, don't even think of saying it...
Just let me know when you start reading through the adventure, and I'll direct you to the relevant section. As you'll likely see, following the tale of the Infinite Staircase can be an extremely confusing experience . . .
Well, without even knowing the Furry Hamster's reply, I can tell you that he will find it a "confusing" experience, because the true details about Graz'zt's plan aren't in TotIS  . They're in the Planes of Chaos boxed set...  .
|
| Lady Kazandra |
Posted - 13 Jan 2005 : 06:04:11
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
Actually, there was more to it than just that. Graz'zt has a habit of thinking "big". Tales of the Infinite Staircase provides more than enough detailing on Graz'zt's true ambitions.
Does it? Maybe that's why I decided to obtain that book... I just got it the other day, but with all that's been going on, I couldn't recall why I wanted it!
SB, don't even think of saying it...
Just let me know when you start reading through the adventure, and I'll direct you to the relevant section. As you'll likely see, following the tale of the Infinite Staircase can be an extremely confusing experience . . .
|
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 13 Jan 2005 : 02:51:15
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
SB, don't even think of saying it...
Say what? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 13 Jan 2005 : 00:13:28
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
Actually, there was more to it than just that. Graz'zt has a habit of thinking "big". Tales of the Infinite Staircase provides more than enough detailing on Graz'zt's true ambitions.
Does it? Maybe that's why I decided to obtain that book... I just got it the other day, but with all that's been going on, I couldn't recall why I wanted it!
SB, don't even think of saying it... |
| Lady Kazandra |
Posted - 12 Jan 2005 : 14:47:32
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Graz'zt did want Waukeen's powers. He needed it to become the most powerful demon in the Abyss and defeat his two enemies, Demogorgon and Orcus.
Actually, there was more to it than just that. Graz'zt has a habit of thinking "big". Tales of the Infinite Staircase provides more than enough detailing on Graz'zt's true ambitions.
|
| DDH_101 |
Posted - 12 Jan 2005 : 01:58:29
Graz'zt did want Waukeen's powers. He needed it to become the most powerful demon in the Abyss and defeat his two enemies, Demogorgon and Orcus. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Jan 2005 : 00:56:07
quote:
Originally posted by Alparon
who saves Waukeen from Grazz't???
i thought her divine powers were taken by Liira and Waukeen was gone for good??
Why did Grazz't kidnap her anyway?
did he want to take her godly essence and become a god himself(lame )
'Twas a module, so it was some group of adventurers.
SB is correct about Lliira holding Waukeen's portfolio for her.
As for Graz'zt, Waukeen was trying to take a roundabout way to get back into the heavens during the ToT. Her path lead thru Graz'zt's realm, and he decided to betray her and take her hostage. I've not flipped thru the module in a while, but I believe he did want her power. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 11 Jan 2005 : 15:29:04
quote:
Originally posted by Alparon
who saves Waukeen from Grazz't???
i thought her divine powers were taken by Liira and Waukeen was gone for good??
I believe it is the adventure For Duty and Deity that details the rescue of Waukeen. Remember, Lliira, one of her strongest allies, was holding her portfolio. She did not take it. |
| Alparon |
Posted - 11 Jan 2005 : 14:37:49
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Hmmm... does anyone know if Waukeen had started to take revenge on Grazz't yet?
who saves Waukeen from Grazz't???
i thought her divine powers were taken by Liira and Waukeen was gone for good??
Why did Grazz't kidnap her anyway?
did he want to take her godly essence and become a god himself(lame) |
| Darth KTrava |
Posted - 02 Nov 2004 : 01:30:48
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
But can anything be done to fix that place up?
Yeah contact Martha Stewart in a few months and she should be free.
But isn't Bhaal's essence the lesser of two evils?
I think that point could be debatale in a court of law for many years to come. Even Tyrrans would be scratching their heads in frustration over this one.
|
| Nephilim |
Posted - 31 Oct 2004 : 12:06:35
Well maybe Cyric himself has had a hand in the writing of this article. He is, after all, the Prince of Lies so this kind of disinformation would be right up his street. |
| DDH_101 |
Posted - 28 Oct 2004 : 20:54:08
Hmmm... after reading the article, I found several mistakes about the Avatar Series. Here they are:
"Many gods could not abide by these actions. Midnight, with the help of Oghma (The Binder) and Mask, The Cyrinishad's final version was placed in protective custody, but not before it had been read by Mask. Cyric had gained yet another follower."
"Begging for forgiveness as Cyric attempted to salvage what he could of the situation, Mask followed his new master out of the castle."
Mask did NOT become a follower of Cyric. He did lose his portfolio of Intrigue but he did not accept Cyric as his master. In fact, it was in The Crucible that the Shadowlord tried to ursurp the portolio back with the trial.
Several of the gods, led by Tyr, placed Cyric on trial, charged with Innocence by reason of Insanity. Around the same time, Cyric's precious chronicle The Cyrinishad was stolen. Upon hearing this, one of Cyric's most devout followers, one Malik el Sami yn Nasser sought out the tome, in order to return it to his god. For this service, Cyric bestowed upon Malik the status of "Seraph of Lies."
Not exactly. The Cyrinishad was always in Rina's hands. It was never "stolen" around the time of the trial. And Malik wasn't rewarded for finding the Cyrinishad. He was rewarded for curing Cyric.
In a cruel twist of fate, Malik became the target of a truth spell cast by the goddess Mystra. As such, Malik is completely unable to tell a lie. Using this curse as a tool, Mystra called upon Malik to read The True Life of Cyric as written by several good gods and set to paper by Oghma. Naturally, Malik had no desire to do such a thing, so decided to tell the tale of Cyric as all worshippers had heard it since childhood. Unfortunately, this also counted as lies, and Malik was forced to read the book as printed. Cover to cover. Upon completing the text, Cyric became calm, and his sanity was once again restored. This, however, does not make him easier to deal with.
This is another part that's incorrect. Malik WANTED to find The True Life of Cyric. This follower of Cyric knew that it was the way to cure Cyric of his madness. In fact, that was what The Crucible was about: Malik going from Candlekeep all the way to Zhentil Keep to get The True Life of Cyric and read it at his trial.
With all these mistakes, I'm not so sure that this article is reliable at all. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 28 Oct 2004 : 17:15:26
quote:
Originally posted by Shayan
The site claims that the information provided is from TSR, its official etc, however I guess all you guys can't be wrong. The resurrection of Bhaal is a big deal afterall...
So here is the Quote from the site:
http://www.io.com/~jwetzler/history.htm
quote:
Some time later, Lord Ao returned to resurrect the Lord of Murder in the Moonshae Isles. Bhaal's second coming was short-lived, and Cyric became the official caretaker of the Church of Assassins. Meanwhile, Cyric joined forces with Mask (Lord of Shadows) to murder Leira, Lady of the Mists, giving Cyric the powers of Deception and Illusion.
It goes into no detail as to how and why...
Does the inclusion of Hall of Heroes in it's reference material mean that it could be fictional?
(Sorry I'm just getting into the D&D Realmslore -mainly interested in gods)
If that's true, it still took place before the Time of Troubles and Bhaal is still dead. Almost every 3/3.5 book that mentions him says so and also Faiths and Avatars from 2e does as well, as did Planescape material. :) |
| Shayan |
Posted - 28 Oct 2004 : 15:40:20
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff_K
I read something about Bhaal being resurrected, but I can't remember where. All I know is that it had something to do with Mask, and Bhaal became Neutral Evil instead of Lawful Evil.
Hi, after I read through this topic I was also convinced that I saw somewhere that Bhaal was resurrected, contrary to the posts...I couldn't get to sleep without finding out where, and finally I found it!
The site claims that the information provided is from TSR, its official etc, however I guess all you guys can't be wrong. The resurrection of Bhaal is a big deal afterall...
So here is the Quote from the site:
http://www.io.com/~jwetzler/history.htm
quote:
Some time later, Lord Ao returned to resurrect the Lord of Murder in the Moonshae Isles. Bhaal's second coming was short-lived, and Cyric became the official caretaker of the Church of Assassins. Meanwhile, Cyric joined forces with Mask (Lord of Shadows) to murder Leira, Lady of the Mists, giving Cyric the powers of Deception and Illusion.
It goes into no detail as to how and why...
Does the inclusion of Hall of Heroes in it's reference material mean that it could be fictional?
(Sorry I'm just getting into the D&D Realmslore -mainly interested in gods) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 28 Oct 2004 : 08:10:53
quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
quote:
Originally posted by The SageI knew that if any scribe was going to beat me to making that connection, it would be you Kuje...
Perhaps I should visit Candlekeep more often...
:) Sorry, I can't help I have every Planescape box set/module/sourcebook except for the sketch book, which seems to be the book many of us are missing.
Hah!... I've got you beat on that at least...
I wouldn't worry though, you're not missing that much... 
|
| Kuje |
Posted - 27 Oct 2004 : 16:44:41
quote:
Originally posted by The SageI knew that if any scribe was going to beat me to making that connection, it would be you Kuje...
Perhaps I should visit Candlekeep more often...
:) Sorry, I can't help I have every Planescape box set/module/sourcebook except for the sketch book, which seems to be the book many of us are missing. |
| DDH_101 |
Posted - 27 Oct 2004 : 16:13:31
Hmmm... does anyone know if Waukeen had started to take revenge on Grazz't yet? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 27 Oct 2004 : 08:34:40
I'm trying to obtain a copy of that one, too... |
| The Sage |
Posted - 27 Oct 2004 : 07:19:04
quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Yeah, she came back in the module For Duty & Deity.
The long and the short of it: during the ToT, Waukeen tried to get back into the heavens by doing some plane-hopping. The demon Graz'zt was supposed to help her, but took her prisoner, instead. The module has the PCs trying to rescue her.
The reason her portfolio remained open was that she handed it off to Llira to watch while she was gone. I believe she'd had to shed a further bit of her divinity, too, and that's why she didn't just pop back when Ao allowed the gods to resume their places -- she actually had to get back to the Realms before she could re-ascend.
Yup, and that module also ties in with the Planescape module Tales from the Infinite Staircase. :)
I knew that if any scribe was going to beat me to making that connection, it would be you Kuje...
Perhaps I should visit Candlekeep more often...
|
| Kuje |
Posted - 26 Oct 2004 : 21:47:18
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Yeah, she came back in the module For Duty & Deity.
The long and the short of it: during the ToT, Waukeen tried to get back into the heavens by doing some plane-hopping. The demon Graz'zt was supposed to help her, but took her prisoner, instead. The module has the PCs trying to rescue her.
The reason her portfolio remained open was that she handed it off to Llira to watch while she was gone. I believe she'd had to shed a further bit of her divinity, too, and that's why she didn't just pop back when Ao allowed the gods to resume their places -- she actually had to get back to the Realms before she could re-ascend.
Yup, and that module also ties in with the Planescape module Tales from the Infinite Staircase. :) |
|
|
