| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| danyew |
Posted - 08 Aug 2004 : 08:15:18
According to the underdark book,the gold dwarves have expirenced a baby boom due to the thunder blessings and are moving north(in the underdark).It also appears to be that they have formed an army(the Army of Gold)which happens to clash with the Duergar(the Army of Steel).Just want to know if anyone has heard of anything about this, I did like to know who won. Anyway,I'm placing my bet on the Army of Gold. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 16:18:13
quote:
Originally posted by ShadezofDis
To be fair to Wooly;
There's no real reason, canonically, to suspect that the orc kingdom would last beyond Obould.
Agreed, and I thought Obould starting a "civilized" kingdom was already a stretch. |
| ShadezofDis |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 05:52:21
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Donnachie
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Once he dies, his kingdom will likely crumble.
I have a feeling that the kingdom of dark arrows is here to stay.
how right you are...
To be fair to Wooly;
There's no real reason, canonically, to suspect that the orc kingdom would last beyond Obould. Obould was always described as an exception to the rule and the very dogma of Gruumsh tends to drive orc culture away from building such a kingdom.
In other words, in order for it to make sense then a Deux Ex Machina nees to come into play. Or Gruumsh needs some retconning. Or because no one really cares about orcs it won't be explained. Or he'll have an uber-bad kid who's teh kick butt orc dude! |
| Lord Donnachie |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 20:06:44
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Once he dies, his kingdom will likely crumble.
I have a feeling that the kingdom of dark arrows is here to stay.
how right you are... |
| Ergdusch |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 09:31:58
quote:
Originally posted by danyew
According to the underdark book,the gold dwarves have expirenced a baby boom due to the thunder blessings and are moving north(in the underdark).It also appears to be that they have formed an army(the Army of Gold)which happens to clash with the Duergar(the Army of Steel).Just want to know if anyone has heard of anything about this, I did like to know who won. Anyway,I'm placing my bet on the Army of Gold.
Have we not information on this in the GHotR? Me thinks so....... 1383 DR - Year of the Vindicated Warrior: - 'The War of Gold and Gloom comes to an unexpected end'. They unite and together marsh towards Shanatar to reclaim the lost kingdom!
Just wanted to throw this in..........
Ergdusch |
| reddfox321 |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 05:51:04
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
I wonder what would happen if some demon prince actually managed to unite the Tanar`ri. How would the Baatezu handle the combined fury of the Abyss? It`s true what you say about orcs and goblins lacking organisatory talents, but it seems as if they are remeding that lack(King Obould Many-arrows)
It's true that King Obould isn't the same as the rest of his kin... But that doesn't mean the orcs are becoming more organized anywhere else. He's one orc. An influential orc, certainly, but still just one orc. Once he dies, his kingdom will likely crumble.
He's simply a fluke among his race.
An Orcish Shaka Zulu or Genghis Khan? Hmm, if he has an intelligent enough son (or worse, a few of them who can cooperate) the Silver Marches might find themselves with a big problem on their hands.
I actually find this quote a bit offensive. I hope you didn't mean that Genghis or Shaka Zulu were flukes among their races. Please think before posting, I could cite a dozen examples off the top of my head that would make that real life analogy look silly... which it is. |
| reddfox321 |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 05:46:32
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Actually I wonder what you all think about this.
I think King Obould is UNDERPOWERED.
I do not like him being a 9th level character. I set most of the leaders of the BIG realms at very high level.
I have Obould as an epic level character. He is 22nd level with the rest of the levels being fighter.
Is this to high?
Doesn't he have permanent bull's strength and cat's grace casted upon him? Thats the impression I got from the books. |
| Matthus |
Posted - 22 May 2007 : 13:10:53
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
I think these issues will be adressed in the upcoming Salvatore novel, The Orc King.
khorne is there already a time release for the softcover version of the book - I'm sure it will be discussed before I can read it  |
| Matthus |
Posted - 22 May 2007 : 13:06:28
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
Concerning warfare between gray and gold/shield dwarves: one Big advantage the duergar have is their willingness to look for allies in places other dwarves wouldn't even consider. After all, the Army of Steel has made alliance with a beholder hive, who's members are now accompanying them into battle against the Gold Dwarf crusaders. That's a lot of firepower right there!
I just read the topic - Ardashir, do you have more information about the mentioned "firepower" - I didn't heard about this update in the war. Would this change the betting quote about the winner 
Does anybody knows if there will be a story about this gold dwarf crusade anytime soon? |
| khorne |
Posted - 21 May 2007 : 12:16:06
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
I wonder what would happen if some demon prince actually managed to unite the Tanar`ri. How would the Baatezu handle the combined fury of the Abyss? It`s true what you say about orcs and goblins lacking organisatory talents, but it seems as if they are remeding that lack(King Obould Many-arrows)
It's true that King Obould isn't the same as the rest of his kin... But that doesn't mean the orcs are becoming more organized anywhere else. He's one orc. An influential orc, certainly, but still just one orc. Once he dies, his kingdom will likely crumble.
He's simply a fluke among his race.
An Orcish Shaka Zulu or Genghis Khan? Hmm, if he has an intelligent enough son (or worse, a few of them who can cooperate) the Silver Marches might find themselves with a big problem on their hands.
I think these issues will be adressed in the upcoming Salvatore novel, The Orc King. |
| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 20 May 2007 : 02:15:40
I'm glad Salvatore did not kill him off in the Hunter's Blades series... that would have been cheap. |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 19 May 2007 : 18:38:10
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
I wonder what would happen if some demon prince actually managed to unite the Tanar`ri. How would the Baatezu handle the combined fury of the Abyss? It`s true what you say about orcs and goblins lacking organisatory talents, but it seems as if they are remeding that lack(King Obould Many-arrows)
It's true that King Obould isn't the same as the rest of his kin... But that doesn't mean the orcs are becoming more organized anywhere else. He's one orc. An influential orc, certainly, but still just one orc. Once he dies, his kingdom will likely crumble.
He's simply a fluke among his race.
An Orcish Shaka Zulu or Genghis Khan? Hmm, if he has an intelligent enough son (or worse, a few of them who can cooperate) the Silver Marches might find themselves with a big problem on their hands. |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 23:23:38
Concerning warfare between gray and gold/shield dwarves: one Big advantage the duergar have is their willingness to look for allies in places other dwarves wouldn't even consider. After all, the Army of Steel has made alliance with a beholder hive, who's members are now accompanying them into battle against the Gold Dwarf crusaders. That's a lot of firepower right there! |
| Kalin Agrivar |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 19:21:19
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
BTW, am I wrong in assuming that while the more traditional duergar, who worship Ladguer, are more stay-at-home types, it's the followers of Deep Duerra who are encouraging the current attitude of "pillage and conquer!" among the duergar, hence the Shanatar War?
I wouldn't say "traditional"...after all it was the "traditional" Ladguer duergar that besieged Menzoberranzan...I think a "traditional" gray dwarf will "pillage and conquer" when they think they will win...Ladguer is Moradin's brother and an old god who (even though LE) takes care of his people the best way eh can...not with reckless offensives...
Duerra on the other hand is a very young and impulsive goddess, thus her worshippers would be reckless too...
and I think the reason why the Thunder Blessing wasn't granted to the duegar and derro is that their patron gods are not belong to the Moradinsim (sp?), the pantheon of the dwarves
but then again I don't remember ever reading that the Duegar or the Derro had the low birth-rate as the surface dwarves did (logically neithor did the wild and arctic dwarves too)
and the fact that the Army of Gold is invadign a region now controled by their heriditary enemies...I don't think they will have it that easy  |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 18:01:35
BTW, am I wrong in assuming that while the more traditional duergar, who worship Ladguer, are more stay-at-home types, it's the followers of Deep Duerra who are encouraging the current attitude of "pillage and conquer!" among the duergar, hence the Shanatar War? |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 17:54:53
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Actually I wonder what you all think about this.
I think King Obould is UNDERPOWERED.
I do not like him being a 9th level character. I set most of the leaders of the BIG realms at very high level.
I have Obould as an epic level character. He is 22nd level with the rest of the levels being fighter.
Is this to high?
I wouldn't set him that high were I to use him, but letting him have all five levels of the Orc Warlord PrC seems almost a necessity. |
| Purple Dragon Knight |
Posted - 24 Jan 2006 : 21:50:14
Darn! I read "the Two Swords" a few months ago, and completely forgot the end result of the dwarf/elf/human army vs. Obould's horde...
Where DO things stand at this point? have they just erected defensive positions in Keeper's Dale, waiting for the next wave? or did Obould retreat to the mountains to build castles there? |
| VonRaventheDaring |
Posted - 23 Jan 2006 : 15:18:43
Well it can't be a mistake that the elves are returing now to the realms at large. I think Corellon has a hand in this although the elven gods as a general rule have no desire to interfer in the lives of their followers. They prefer to have their worshipers make their own destanies, mistakes, and try to only help when they need to. Least thats what i remeber reading from a (forgive me) novel. I know its not official cannon, but it does give us insight into the elven perspecitve of how things are to be handled. |
| Xysma |
Posted - 10 Aug 2005 : 16:35:21
For anyone interested, you can find more information on Thordek Stonebreaker, the duergar cleric of Moradin, on the WotC website.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rp/20020911a |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 07 Aug 2005 : 11:02:19
quote:
Originally posted by hammer of Moradin
To bring all of this back around, now that Obould has a kingdom, he will suffer the fate of all kingdoms, including those of the duergar, the threat of war. Now, what he does with that is what will determine if he lasts or not.
Duergar broke away from enslavement and forged their own communities. Now they have to be vigilant against invasion. Same with Obould. With larger, more defined borders, the ability to protect his territory is weakened. Even if more orcs flock to his banner, he will have to start looking to form an organized army. Some may argue that he already has one, but most of the orcs in his army will now want to take advantage of being free of their dark holes to raid, plunder, enslave, and any other evil entertainments they can find. It will be up to the shield dwarves of the North to keep the armies of Obould in check.
I think rather a combined joint alliance of gold, shield dwarves as well as any human armies from the North(say from Silverymoon) would be in a stronger position to suppress the armies of Obould. Furthermore, Obould's armies can be broken into demoralized orcs if they are hit hard and often enough with high casualties on the orcs side. Also, most importantly is to disrupt any possible alliance(if there is in the future) between Obould and the frost giants if Obould's legions are to be properly contained or vanquished. |
| hammer of Moradin |
Posted - 07 Aug 2005 : 07:11:28
To bring all of this back around, now that Obould has a kingdom, he will suffer the fate of all kingdoms, including those of the duergar, the threat of war. Now, what he does with that is what will determine if he lasts or not.
Duergar broke away from enslavement and forged their own communities. Now they have to be vigilant against invasion. Same with Obould. With larger, more defined borders, the ability to protect his territory is weakened. Even if more orcs flock to his banner, he will have to start looking to form an organized army. Some may argue that he already has one, but most of the orcs in his army will now want to take advantage of being free of their dark holes to raid, plunder, enslave, and any other evil entertainments they can find. It will be up to the shield dwarves of the North to keep the armies of Obould in check. |
| khorne |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 09:18:42
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Actually I wonder what you all think about this.
I think King Obould is UNDERPOWERED.
I do not like him being a 9th level character. I set most of the leaders of the BIG realms at very high level.
I have Obould as an epic level character. He is 22nd level with the rest of the levels being fighter.
Is this to high?
I think it fits. |
| Mournblade |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 03:11:22
Actually I wonder what you all think about this.
I think King Obould is UNDERPOWERED.
I do not like him being a 9th level character. I set most of the leaders of the BIG realms at very high level.
I have Obould as an epic level character. He is 22nd level with the rest of the levels being fighter.
Is this to high?
|
| Shadovar |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 02:28:19
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
And about his grip on the throne not holding, his subjects regard him as Gruumsh incarnate. They are not going to disobey him or rebel against him. Ever.
Sure they would -- as soon as they had serious reason to doubt that he was Gruumsh incarnate.
All it needs is a series of events that brings disgrace and dishonor to King Obould then will his Gruumsh incarnate image be erased from the orcs' eyes. If there are folk that can engineer such events, drow would be first on the list.
By the way, if King Obould is regarded as Gruumsh incarnate, then surely Correllon would have someone as his incarnate to kind of "balance" the situation, as Correllon and Gruumsh are determined foes. If there is a incarnate of Gruumsh in the Realms, that would be no good news for the elves and Correllon. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 05 Aug 2005 : 17:54:53
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
And about his grip on the throne not holding, his subjects regard him as Gruumsh incarnate. They are not going to disobey him or rebel against him. Ever.
Sure they would -- as soon as they had serious reason to doubt that he was Gruumsh incarnate. |
| khorne |
Posted - 05 Aug 2005 : 17:11:13
quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
quote:
Originally posted by Arlenion
I don't know whether I would like an orc kingdom or not. Maybe if the orcs actually have a kingdom that lasts a few generations then they might actually become somewhat civilized. Not like Myth Drannor or the Silver Marches, but they might not be barbarians any more. Once they have a kingdom of their own to defend they probably will be willing to help protect against other hordes of monsters from the North, after all they have a nation to protect as well.
I doubt the orcs would bother about protecting other nations for they may seek some gains in allying with the enemy that is threatening their neighbours and themselves like gaining some portions of their neighbours' land. Also, orcs tend to a bit prone to fighting among themselves for petty reasons, even King Obould rule over the orcs can't last forever, much less a generation.
He just might find a succesor as smart and powerful as himself. And about his grip on the throne not holding, his subjects regard him as Gruumsh incarnate. They are not going to disobey him or rebel against him. Ever. |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 03 Aug 2005 : 12:22:37
quote:
Originally posted by Arlenion
I don't know whether I would like an orc kingdom or not. Maybe if the orcs actually have a kingdom that lasts a few generations then they might actually become somewhat civilized. Not like Myth Drannor or the Silver Marches, but they might not be barbarians any more. Once they have a kingdom of their own to defend they probably will be willing to help protect against other hordes of monsters from the North, after all they have a nation to protect as well.
I doubt the orcs would bother about protecting other nations for they may seek some gains in allying with the enemy that is threatening their neighbours and themselves like gaining some portions of their neighbours' land. Also, orcs tend to a bit prone to fighting among themselves for petty reasons, even King Obould rule over the orcs can't last forever, much less a generation. |
| Arlenion |
Posted - 02 Aug 2005 : 16:32:13
I don't know whether I would like an orc kingdom or not. Maybe if the orcs actually have a kingdom that lasts a few generations then they might actually become somewhat civilized. Not like Myth Drannor or the Silver Marches, but they might not be barbarians any more. Once they have a kingdom of their own to defend they probably will be willing to help protect against other hordes of monsters from the North, after all they have a nation to protect as well. |
| StromLancer |
Posted - 02 Jul 2005 : 01:30:53
quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by StromLancer
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Even if Obould's sons did wait until he kacked, nothing guarantees their sons and lieutenants will do the same. That's why I think his kingdom will crumble when he dies.
And I am praying for the day when Obould kingdom is finally toppled.
Why?
I think StromLancer does not really favor orcs that much and furthermore, Obould seemed nearly like an avatar of Gruumsh. Maybe Correllon should come as an avatar and compete with Obould. Iam sure StromLancer agree with me.
Yes, Shadovar, I do agree with you. |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 02 Jul 2005 : 01:29:40
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by StromLancer
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Even if Obould's sons did wait until he kacked, nothing guarantees their sons and lieutenants will do the same. That's why I think his kingdom will crumble when he dies.
And I am praying for the day when Obould kingdom is finally toppled.
Why?
I think StromLancer does not really favor orcs that much and furthermore, Obould seemed nearly like an avatar of Gruumsh. Maybe Correllon should come as an avatar and compete with Obould. Iam sure StromLancer agree with me. |
| khorne |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 18:30:31
quote:
Originally posted by StromLancer
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Even if Obould's sons did wait until he kacked, nothing guarantees their sons and lieutenants will do the same. That's why I think his kingdom will crumble when he dies.
And I am praying for the day when Obould kingdom is finally toppled.
Why? |
