| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| TomCosta |
Posted - 20 May 2005 : 22:24:31
Wooly, here is the tentative table of contents so far and as much as I'm willing to show. The few holes are because I may have an opportunity to publish a few of the monsters elsewhere if all goes well. Again, happy to take suggestions -- I'm generally avoiding unique creatures and creatures without some official FR tie-in -- though I make no promises.
1. Animal, Cattle
2. Animal, Pig
3. Aspect of the Shadevari
4. Atrocity Bone
5. Atrocity Bone Swarm
6. Awry Dog
7. Barrowe (Template)
8. Bleeder
9. Burbur
10. Cairn (Template)
11. Carrion Dead (Template)
22. Cyrrobbaris
23. Dark Plant (Template)
24. Death Fey (Template)
25. Divine Beast (Template)
26. Dragon, Faerie
27. Draken
30. Fiend, Bulezau
32. Fiend, Hordling
33. Fiend, Hordling (Night Parade)
34. Fiend, Hordling (Hori no Oni)
38. Fiend, Viper Tree
39. Flying Fingers
40. Fog Terror
41. Ghauroper
42. Ghost, Pasocada (Template)
43. Giant, Verbeeg
44. Hag, Elder Sea
45. Insect Swarm, Ant Swarm
46. Insect Swarm, Fyrefly Swarm
47. Ka’Ursa
48. Leech Swarm
49. Magebane
50. Manggus
51. Marl
52. Morin
53. Ogrillon
54. Ogrillon, Greater
55. Plague Zombie (Template)
56. Render
57. Seelie/Unselee Sprite (Template)
58. Sentient Slime (Template)
59. Serpent Vine
60. Shatjan
61. Sind
62. Skull of Skullport, Vassal Skull
63. Skull of Skullport, Arcanist Skull
64. Skuz
65. Snake, Blacksnake (Template)
66. Snake, Ice Snake
67. Spider, Flying
68. Spider, Monstrous Marine (Template)
69. Spider, Opilionid
70. Starwood Shambler (Template)
71. Unholy Hand of Bane
72. Vermin, Dung Crawler (Template)
73. Wood Man (Template)
74. Wood Wose
75. Zu-Teren
76. Spriggan Monster Class and Elder Spriggan
Plus the following original templates by Eric which I have to update to 3.5E.... darkbringer, jabbering creature, oakheart, possessed construct, and seer.
And I'm seriously considering working up.... archshadow/demishade, blazing bones, cantobele, nature elemental, inquisitor, living web/duleep, piranha/quipper swarm, sashalus, shadowhound, slithering hoard, and steel shadow.
|
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| warlockco |
Posted - 06 Jan 2006 : 02:15:12
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Yeah, don't sweat it Tom. I'm looking forward to it, but no pressure.
Although, if you want someone to crack the whip, I bet lovely lady Hooded One would volunteer. 
But then he would never finish... being whipped by THO would be too enjoyable.  |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 06 Jan 2006 : 01:34:45
Yeah, don't sweat it Tom. I'm looking forward to it, but no pressure.
Although, if you want someone to crack the whip, I bet lovely lady Hooded One would volunteer. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 04 Jan 2006 : 21:24:32
Hey, there's no need to apologize! You're doing this for us, so we'll wait. Maybe not patiently, but we'll wait. |
| TomCosta |
Posted - 04 Jan 2006 : 20:41:34
In a word, abysmal. I don't want to keep making date promises I'm not keeping or excuses, they're the same as before. Also, now that Dragon Magazine seems to be catching up with old submissions, I'm going to wait a bit longer to see on getting it done. I'm considering scaling back a bit and only having fewer monsters than the 102 I originally planned on having. Sorry guys and gals. It'll happen. I just don't know when. Again, my apologies. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Jan 2006 : 23:11:27
Since Tom himself mentioned the Realms Bestiary, Volume 1 in another thread, it reminded me of this one.
How goes progress on this one, Tom? |
| Chosen of Moradin |
Posted - 26 Oct 2005 : 12:57:34
And mine are the desires of Warlocko, The Sage and Wooly. I, too, am buried under a pile of unfinished works in all the areas of life.... I think that a little more time will be helpful, so I´m considering cloning or lichdom...
Good luck and best wishes in your new job, Tom! We here at the Keep desire only the best for all the authors and designers of our loved Realms. 
Cheers up!
Chosen of Moradin, listening Nightwish and preparing a great "run for the beholdeeer! next game session. |
| warlockco |
Posted - 26 Oct 2005 : 04:27:29
Good to hear from you Tom, as to having too many things to juggle, I believe alot of us can understand that. I know I for one can.
Can't wait to see it, no matter how long it takes.
Best of Luck with everything. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 26 Oct 2005 : 01:50:15
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
Sorry guys. I ended up just changing jobs, but going through a fairly exhaustive search for a month or so prior. In any case, I'm way behind and haven't cracked the file in some time. My goal is for the end of next month now, but I may have to say end of the year. I want to try and get 102 monsters for the file and I have around 80+ completed or close to completed and about 15 just started. Thanks for your patience and your anticipation and my apologies for not living up to my own deadlines.
We understand completely Tom, as some of us have also had to endure such trials from time to time .
Still, it good to hear things are now picking up. I look forward to your efforts on this .
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 25 Oct 2005 : 23:32:34
No worries -- life happens. Just don't keep us waiting too much longer.  |
| TomCosta |
Posted - 25 Oct 2005 : 23:24:39
Sorry guys. I ended up just changing jobs, but going through a fairly exhaustive search for a month or so prior. In any case, I'm way behind and haven't cracked the file in some time. My goal is for the end of next month now, but I may have to say end of the year. I want to try and get 102 monsters for the file and I have around 80+ completed or close to completed and about 15 just started. Thanks for your patience and your anticipation and my apologies for not living up to my own deadlines. |
| Thysl |
Posted - 25 Oct 2005 : 17:21:00
Ditto! I love the first one and use it often, time for another!!
Thysl |
| Chosen of Moradin |
Posted - 25 Oct 2005 : 13:17:13
And put this humble dwarf in the choir for Tom! I´m eager, too, to see the new work of Tom, and I consider the first volume of the Bestiary one of the most useful books to Dms...
So, cheers up to Tom! |
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 25 Oct 2005 : 04:38:55
I would like to "third" Wooly & Warlocko's thoughts. I've no desire to rush great art, but am eager to see the finished work. If cheering you on Tom like they do at a marathon will help ease your path down that final stretch, then just visualize us slapping a gatorade in your hand while the crowd roars "Tom! Tom! Tom!" and cheers you to the finish line. |
| warlockco |
Posted - 25 Oct 2005 : 02:39:50
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I was just persuing old threads (looking for one in particular) when I stumbled across this one...
Tom, any progress or updates on Volume 2 of the Bestiary?
Wow it has been awhile since anything has been mentioned on this.
Aye I second Wooly's thoughts.
Tom, any word of your progress? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 24 Oct 2005 : 21:47:05
I was just persuing old threads (looking for one in particular) when I stumbled across this one...
Tom, any progress or updates on Volume 2 of the Bestiary? |
| warlockco |
Posted - 01 Jun 2005 : 04:57:09
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
And lastly regarding flaming, this thread, and my job.... If this thread is defined as flaming, whew, we've got a ways nastier to go IMHO. This was pretty tame and I found the discussion interesting as far as it went. Work can be pretty intense, but I'm not often in the thick of things if I can help it. ;-)
I just find it amazing that are you able to get as much done as you do.
Keep up the great work Tom!! |
| khorne |
Posted - 31 May 2005 : 19:25:22
That`s one of the things I like so much about these forums, Tom. Even while having an argument people here tend to be rather polite(unlike some other forums I know.......) |
| TomCosta |
Posted - 31 May 2005 : 19:14:23
Whew, go away for a few days and you can miss a lot.
Uhm, regarding the planetouched and draegoloth gender issues, which I don't wish to reignite, I've always viewed planetouched as a reference with an outsider or elemental ancestor close enough in their family lineage that they still manifest special qualities. I view tieflings and aasimar as being of primarily human stock, and with the other official examples of planetouched allow for almoast limitless permutations depending on the primary mortal race and type of outsider/elemental. As for draegloth gender, I think we can agree that such a mating, particularly with the chaotic genomes of demons, can allow for innumerable permutations. Since we can be born with gender-oriented physical birth defects (both sets of genitals for example), who to say what happens when a demon gets involved beyond "yuck." All that said, I think we will continue to see new varieties of planetouched, and I for one am all for it. I like the specific over the generic in this case, but I don't anticipate adding any to Bestiary II.
Regarding the ogrillons and having the same height bonuses of a half-giant, in fact, I've included a couple regional/racial feats to do just that. I considered making it a part of their basic write-up, but as of the moment, still like the variability more.
Regarding lythari. I don't feel strongly about reworking them. Their differences with true lycanthropes are fairly minor and easily summarized in a paragraph that would modify typical werewolves -- not realy curse, only two forms, always elves, etc. -- as has already been done in this thread.
And lastly regarding flaming, this thread, and my job.... If this thread is defined as flaming, whew, we've got a ways nastier to go IMHO. This was pretty tame and I found the discussion interesting as far as it went. Work can be pretty intense, but I'm not often in the thick of things if I can help it. ;-) |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 30 May 2005 : 15:22:53
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
According to all 2e lore and the Player's Guide they are the same thing and it is designed to apply to all humanoids.
I gave you the reason why it is the way it is. You're looking at this from a stat point of view and I'm looking at this as a offspring of two beings. So what if they two were small sized? Who says that the fiendish blood doesn't make the child medium sized? Sure it might kill it's mother but it's descended from a fiend! It has evil blood in it's veins.
No that's not what the PHB says since there are half-dwarves. Do you see half-elves getting different stat mods based on which subrace of elves they are descended from? No they have one stat mod and that's it.
A half-fiend is still a race even though it's a template now in 3e and like I said it also depends on what generation the tiefling is since tieflings are 2nd to some other # you want to use generation offspring.
But take it up with Rich then because this is what he's said and this is how it stands. :)
Well I guess where just going to have to agree to disagree, it wasnt the first time and I doubt it will be the last.
I suggest we give Tom his thread back after our mini flame war, hopefully Tom hasnt been sent screaming into the hills
(Although given where Tom works he should be used to them) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 30 May 2005 : 02:34:39
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
My solution is to not let oneself get hung up by the game mechanics of it. If you are creating a genasi gnome for instance, then you should certainly make your case to your DM that for flavor reasons you would like to sub-out some of the racial characteristics that are obviously human for some that are more gnomish in flavor. I can't see a DM having a problem with that. I certainly wouldn't anyway.
And I would agree.
As I've said so many times on these boards, if there's a creative and flavorful justification for why an element should exist in the Realms, then rules and mechanics should not stand in the way of using that particular element to enhance the story/adventure in an campaign. It's an option I've always allowed my players as DM, and I don't see myself changing any time soon.
In fact, that reference from RoF that I mentioned earlier -
quote:
In fact, I recall something in the tome being written about the origins of the various planetouched being as different as the forms of planetouched themselves.
That would seem to provide a convenient base for any DM to use for the creative origin of any type of planetouched.
|
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 18:09:50
I just see the stats for planetouched as mechanics to approximate some effect in a gaming situation.
The rules can't accomodate creating separate stats for every, single combination of planetouched and terrestrial race. Perhaps you could argue that planetouched should have been crafted as templates that you apply to a race, that might have worked better.
However, the planetouched were created as playable races, and yes the assumption seems to be that the base terrestrial stock is human, which certainly does seem to lose some of the flavor of having a genasi elf or a tiefling halfling.
My solution is to not let oneself get hung up by the game mechanics of it. If you are creating a genasi gnome for instance, then you should certainly make your case to your DM that for flavor reasons you would like to sub-out some of the racial characteristics that are obviously human for some that are more gnomish in flavor. I can't see a DM having a problem with that. I certainly wouldn't anyway. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 17:37:15
quote:
Originally posted by DargothA Tiefling descended from a Dwarf/Halfling and Human are not the same thing
A Tiefling is not designed to be applied to other races. The Tiefling gets a +2 Int +2 Dex -2 Cha and get an ECL of 1 this fine if your dealing with a Human as they get No stat bonus at creation and the race is more or less compatable with Tieflings ie no skill bonus etc and the same size
What your saying makes no sense when you apply it to other races
Let us assume that a Halfling and a Half fiend Halfling Breed
Both the Halfling and the Half Fiend Halfling are Size small
Why on earth would they would give birth to a Medium size Tiefling? It makes absolutley no sense. The ruling makes as much sense as someone saying that the PHB Half Elf race is what you get when a Human breeds with anything ie a Dwarf/Gnome/Halfling/Elf etc
According to all 2e lore and the Player's Guide they are the same thing and it is designed to apply to all humanoids.
I gave you the reason why it is the way it is. You're looking at this from a stat point of view and I'm looking at this as a offspring of two beings. So what if they two were small sized? Who says that the fiendish blood doesn't make the child medium sized? Sure it might kill it's mother but it's descended from a fiend! It has evil blood in it's veins.
No that's not what the PHB says since there are half-dwarves. Do you see half-elves getting different stat mods based on which subrace of elves they are descended from? No they have one stat mod and that's it.
A half-fiend is still a race even though it's a template now in 3e and like I said it also depends on what generation the tiefling is since tieflings are 2nd to some other # you want to use generation offspring.
But take it up with Rich then because this is what he's said and this is how it stands. :) |
| warlockco |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 12:15:03
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Something else I wouldnt mind seeing is non human planetouched theres mention of some in the FRC but there not stated out.
One I wouldnt mind seeing is a Drow/Planetouched (What you get when a Drageloth breeds with a drow)
Not possible. As we're told on page 8 of Champions of Ruin:
"Draegloths are genderless, sexless creatures incapable of procreation."
........  I guess WOTC forgot to tell James Wyatt (COSQ has a FEMALE Drageloth called Flenser)
Not all Half-Fiend Drow are Draegloths, after all Draegloths are created via a special ritual.
Be interesting to see if Quenthal's agreement bears fruit
It won`t. Pharaun left the sucker trapped in nevermelting magic ice.
That was a different Demon, and he was destroyed. |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 09:08:09
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
That's right. They are thier own race descended from a humanoid and a half-fiend. Because of this they have thier own stat mods no matter what thier parent's are. Do you see half-elves having different stat mods depending on which subrace thier elven parent might have been?
A tiefling that is descended from a dwarf and a half-fiend get's the same mods as a normal standard tiefling or the mods of the variant tiefling that is specific to dwarves, like the Fey'ri are sometimes to gold elves. A tiefling descended from a halfling and a half-fiend would still have the same stats as a normal tiefling or the stats of the variant tiefling that is specific to halfings, just like the Fey'ri.
Even in Planescape, where tieflings, assimar, and genasi were introduced said this. Those races had basic stat mods that was the same across the board no matter what humanoid they are descended from.
FR material always overwrites core material for the FR setting as well. This is why drow in FR have different skin tones then the skin tones found in 1/2/3/3.5e except for that one FR book called Underdark.
And we are highjacking this thread. :)
A Tiefling descended from a Dwarf/Halfling and Human are not the same thing
A Tiefling is not designed to be applied to other races. The Tiefling gets a +2 Int +2 Dex -2 Cha and get an ECL of 1 this fine if your dealing with a Human as they get No stat bonus at creation and the race is more or less compatable with Tieflings ie no skill bonus etc and the same size
What your saying makes no sense when you apply it to other races
Let us assume that a Halfling and a Half fiend Halfling Breed
Both the Halfling and the Half Fiend Halfling are Size small
Why on earth would they would give birth to a Medium size Tiefling? It makes absolutley no sense. The ruling makes as much sense as someone saying that the PHB Half Elf race is what you get when a Human breeds with anything ie a Dwarf/Gnome/Halfling/Elf etc
|
| Kuje |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 08:46:43
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Which is why Richs ruling falls flat on its arse (insidently is Rich also over ruling the 3.5 Monster manual as well as it states that Planetouched are humans)
The Tiefling/Aasimar and Genasi where designed for humans ie they reflect a an Outsider/Human blending when it comes to there stats.
What does a Dwarven Tielfling get for Ability bonus?
Does it get a +2 Con -4 Cha +2 Dex +2?
What about all the Dwarves Racial abilities like +2 Poison, +1 Attack role against orcs, +4 dodge bonus against Giants etc
Now lets make it even more complicate what happans if its a Halfling Tiefling? Tiefling are Medium, Halflings are small and they gain special bonus from that and other racial sources
Planetouched are designed as RACES not TEMPLATES and they cant just be slapped over any race and say its Planetouched with out a great deal of reworking and confusion
That's right. They are thier own race descended from a humanoid and a half-fiend. Because of this they have thier own stat mods no matter what thier parent's are. Do you see half-elves having different stat mods depending on which subrace thier elven parent might have been?
A tiefling that is descended from a dwarf and a half-fiend get's the same mods as a normal standard tiefling or the mods of the variant tiefling that is specific to dwarves, like the Fey'ri are sometimes to gold elves. A tiefling descended from a halfling and a half-fiend would still have the same stats as a normal tiefling or the stats of the variant tiefling that is specific to halfings, just like the Fey'ri. It doesn't matter what it's mortal ancestor is because by the time a planetouched is born it's 2nd or 100th generation and its mortal blood is diluted enough that it makes it its own race.
Even in Planescape, where tieflings, assimar, and genasi where introduced said this. Those races had basic stat mods that was the same across the board no matter what humanoid they are descended from.
FR material always overwrites core material for the FR setting as well. This is why drow in FR have different skin tones then the skin tones found in 1/2/3/3.5e except for that one FR book called Underdark.
And we are highjacking this thread. :) |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 08:39:05
Which is why Richs ruling falls flat on its arse (insidently is Rich also over ruling the 3.5 Monster manual as well as it states that Planetouched are humans)
The Tiefling/Aasimar and Genasi where designed for humans ie they reflect a an Outsider/Human blending when it comes to there stats.
What does a Dwarven Tielfling get for Ability bonus?
Does it get a +2 Con -4 Cha +2 Dex +2?
What about all the Dwarves Racial abilities like +2 Poison, +1 Attack role against orcs, +4 dodge bonus against Giants etc
Now lets make it even more complicate what happans if its a Halfling Tiefling? Tiefling are Medium, Halflings are small and they gain special bonus from that and other racial sources
Planetouched are designed as RACES not TEMPLATES and they cant just be slapped over any race and say its Planetouched with out a great deal of reworking and confusion |
| Kuje |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 08:17:33
quote:
Originally posted by Garen ThalNot to throw more fuel on this fire, but the only reference I can find to a "planetouched" subtype appears in the variant rules appendix, in the entry for lesser planetouched. As such, it's not really applicable to the discussion. Even if it were, the "planetouched" subtype is to the humanoid is analagous to what the native subtype is to the outsider; it doesn't have anything at all to do with the ancestry of the creature. To extend this short description to argue that the planetouched races represent all humanoid-outsider combinations is a somewhat fallacious argument*. There are several planetouched races out there that aren't human, like they fey'ri, tanarukk, and the Fiend Folio's maeluth (dwarf-devil) and wispling (halfling-demon); the existence of racially-specific planetouched races suggests that each racial combination should have its unique set of abilities, and the "baseline" (FRCS) planetouched should really be safely assumed as human.
It is applicable because that is what Rich Baker told us to use last year when that book came out. Standard tieflings, and other plane touched, are the offspring of any humanoid races and a half-fiend, a creature of the elemental planes, or a uppoer planar but some tieflings and planetouched, like the Fey'ri, are also descended from elves which are also humanoids and a half-fiend.
Page 28 of last year's ask the game designer thread, On 3/24/04, Rich said "OK, I think I see.
Each planetouched race is really its own thing. It doesn't really matter what the humanoid genealogy is--you're a planetouched, and it doesn't matter if you have dwarf, or elf, or human, or orc, or whatever in your family tree.
However, there are a couple of exceptions to that rule. Fey'ri are clearly descended from elves and demons. Durzagons are clearly descended from duergar and devils. The existence of the fey'ri and durzagons doesn't imply that *every* humanoid race creates a planetouched derivative with unique characteristics--it simply means that some distinct racial types with tiefling-like derivations are possible. Some elf-demon heritages will result in "standard" tieflings, others (sun elves and succubi, I suppose, removed by a generation or two) will result in fey'ri.
It's really a question of "flavor" text surrounding the race. The racial qualities and rules are spelled out pretty precisely for all these guys." |
| The Sage |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 08:16:15
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Yes but the Player's Guide overwrites that with the planetouched subtype. :) And so has Rich with the reply he said to both of us last year when the book came out.
So its basicly another case of "If theres a piece of published Realmslore thats inconvient, just ignore it and pretend it was never there....
I wouldn't say that. It is still your game after all. You can choose which ever interpretation you prefer, just so long as you remember the differences between the older material and that which was published in PGtF and stated by Rich.
|
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 07:53:27
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Yes but the Player's Guide overwrites that with the planetouched subtype. :) And so has Rich with the reply he said to both of us last year when the book came out.
Not to throw more fuel on this fire, but the only reference I can find to a "planetouched" subtype appears in the variant rules appendix, in the entry for lesser planetouched. As such, it's not really applicable to the discussion. Even if it were, the "planetouched" subtype is to the humanoid is analagous to what the native subtype is to the outsider; it doesn't have anything at all to do with the ancestry of the creature. To extend this short description to argue that the planetouched races represent all humanoid-outsider combinations is a somewhat fallacious argument*. There are several planetouched races out there that aren't human, like they fey'ri, tanarukk, and the Fiend Folio's maeluth (dwarf-devil) and wispling (halfling-demon); the existence of racially-specific planetouched races suggests that each racial combination should have its unique set of abilities, and the "baseline" (FRCS) planetouched should really be safely assumed as human.
*It is actually counter-intuitive: you only add the planetouched subtype to the humanoid type, without adding the racial subtypes, like elf or orc, that you would also add if you were dealing with an elven or orcish planetouched. The PGtF "lesser planetouched" goes from Outsider (native) to Humanoid (planetouched), not to Humanoid (elf, planetouched), or anything else (note that when PGtF was published, the idea of a "human" subtype wasn't yet conceived). It's a direct change, and one which assumes that you're moving from the mainline FRCS, which itself assumes that your planetouched character is a human planetouched. |
| Dargoth |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 07:47:07
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Yes but the Player's Guide overwrites that with the planetouched subtype. :) And so has Rich with the reply he said to both of us last year when the book came out.
So its basicly another case of "If theres a piece of published Realmslore thats inconvient, just ignore it and pretend it was never there.... |
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