| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Shayan |
Posted - 04 Nov 2004 : 12:45:10
I've just recently read R.A Salvatore's Dark Elf trilogy, and in that as you may know the Drow magical items 'misbehave' when exposed to sunlight (understandable). Like Drizzt's cloak withers, etc.
But it is also says that Drow wizards can't control their spells in the surface world-even in darkness, I believe. Their spells behave similar to spells of surfacers during ToT. Why?
EDIT: Bad grammar 
As far as I saw the book doesn't give an explanation as to why (forgive me if indeed it does)  |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 19 Feb 2020 : 06:45:18
Master Rupert,
You are certainly correct good sir. Here is a link with bibliography info to substantiate your point as well!
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Faerzress
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
My personal theory is that when the drow were fleeing underground, Lolth reached out and gave the race a tweak. This tweak made them more suited to a life in the Underdark. Part of it was to link their magic not to living things, but to faerzress.
So in this case, their magic was going awry because they were drawing not directly from the Weave, but thru the faerzress. And some property of this stuff doesn't like sunlight, so their spells didn't act as they should have.
|
| Kentinal |
Posted - 18 Jun 2005 : 02:26:57
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Heh heh, time to oversimplify the arguement.
Hey I like theory discussions. Also some useful ideas and lore were presented. Half-magic seems very useful to explain some things for example.
quote:
Perhaps the drow was simply in a wild magic area, and not being used to the surface nor being attuned to the Weave in the same manner as surface dwellers, he didn't get a "bad feeling" about the wild magic area.
Well first simple answer was casting a spell in light on the surface was offered sometime ago. Not sure that wild magic areas give a "bad feeling" until first spell does not work as expected. Certainly an unexpected result occured ... unless the caster in his black evil soul actually placed the spell exactly were wanted in hopes of some kind of power bid. Rank is power, that is true of all Drow, ask any other race and they will tell you never trust a Drow that their very minds are controted with Evil. ;-) |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 18 Jun 2005 : 01:23:35
Heh heh, time to oversimplify the arguement.
Perhaps the drow was simply in a wild magic area, and not being used to the surface nor being attuned to the Weave in the same manner as surface dwellers, he didn't get a "bad feeling" about the wild magic area.
And before anyone argues that Wild Magic areas didn't exist before the ToT, that is not stricly accurate. They could occur anywhere something sufficiently powerful to damage the Weave might have happened. (Our lovely THO mentioned that Sylune death in Shadow Dale affected the Weave there, for example). |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 18 Jun 2005 : 00:49:53
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
To again use my analogy above, you're used to throwing to a moving target; that's all you've ever done. When the target stops, you still throw the same way (because it's the only way you know how to throw), and thus miss.
I would picture spell casting not as much leading a target but instead compensation for amount of wind or breeze.
But the thing is, the majority of drow cities are constructed in areas of high faerzress radiation -- so the majority of drow spellcasters have learned their spells in such a way to compensate for the shifted fields of magic caused by faerzress.
I agreed to this point, non travelers would not learn to compensate. quote:
And it's not like most spellcasters can, on the fly, cast their spells in an entirely different way. We're talking about the way the spell is structured, not the way it's aimed.
I thought you were talking about leading a moving target and I was talking about hitting a target in the wind. Both discussions appeared to be about aiming to hit a target. Though I do suspose the actual memerization could apply as well as crafting the spells for in city use. However that still leaves the problem of the underdark travelers the amount of radiation will vary (you how fast they are traveling, me how fast radiation is moving or indirectly causing a translocation) minor variations of an in city merorised spell on patrols near the city would not effect spells like fireball (a near miss is as good as a hit in most cases), however in spells like magic missle (a near miss is a miss). To use your moving target therory and crafting a spell to compensate the spell needs to be memorised near the area of where it will be cast, because if moving to higher or low radiation the spell will have an aiming problem. Radiation certainly is not at the same level every where in the underdark. As you note, cities are build in radiation areas, any traveler would have to learn , IMO, how to effectively cast in different levels of radiation (near misses in the underdark will get you killed quickly, considering how many things there are trying to get something to eat) by learning to sense radiation and adjust aiming acordingly. In 3rd learning spells certainly quicker then 2nd so that crafted spells for one area could be dismissed and recrafted for the new location. Second often did not provide such a luxuory where a high level mage could take a day or more to learn all spells posible if all slots were empty, spells not used would not be dismissed however expected to work (and as far as I know did work in the underdark regardless of amount of travel and changed radiation levels). This is why I think aiming applies better then crafting a spell for local conditions. I do agree that first time travelers would have problems adjusting to aiming in either case but that should be part of thier training, as would apply to crafting the spells. Both cases require the casters to have some sense of radiation they are in to be able to cast at all.
I do not see thr crafting working in such a way that the radiation is part of the spell, this prevents surface Drow from crafting any spell unless they brought enough radiation with them and carries it with them so that the spell works as intended.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Jun 2005 : 00:10:01
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
My spin on it is that faerzress is like a form of half-magic... Think of it like the Netherese mythallars. It creates a field of semi-magical energy, that does interact with the Weave (you can't teleport into areas with strong amounts of faerzress radiation).
Any thing in third to comfirm this (teleport) is still the case? Silence certainly can work on the matter of course, but afirmation or a report of a different effect more definitive.
Yup, pages 48 and 49 of Underdark.
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The drow have, over the millennia, become accustomed to the Weave fluctuation caused by faerzress. Their spells have been tweaked to account for that -- kinda like the way you have to lead when firing at a moving target. But, once they were beyond the reach of the radiation, they were still casting spells the same way. However, now the Weave was stable, so the spells didn't go off the way they intended.
To again use my analogy above, you're used to throwing to a moving target; that's all you've ever done. When the target stops, you still throw the same way (because it's the only way you know how to throw), and thus miss.
The only problem I have with this is a spell caster to be effective must some how know the extent of radiation field as it is clear that it varies though out the underdark in intensity. I would picture spell casting not as much leading a target but instead compensation for amount of wind or breeze. Throwing a ball to hit a target (which line of sight spells are) leads one to throw it a different direction so that the wind will blow the ball to hit the traget. If this tends to apply then spell casting with no wind should not be hard to adjust to, however spells in very high winds (intense radiation) can not work. This would still make it hard to teleport within the underdark because the winds can not be felt over those types of ranges, however should make radition casting of line of sight in the underdark and on surface (because both areas have no radiation) should be adjusted for the wind. Oh there certainly could be errors for Drow casters that have not traveled and learned to cast in the same wind field, and some Drow never live the city they were born in. Adventuring Drow certainly should be more adaptible to dealing with the radiation intensity. This might cover most cases of why magic cast has errors.
But the thing is, the majority of drow cities are constructed in areas of high faerzress radiation -- so the majority of drow spellcasters have learned their spells in such a way to compensate for the shifted fields of magic caused by faerzress.
And it's not like most spellcasters can, on the fly, cast their spells in an entirely different way. We're talking about the way the spell is structured, not the way it's aimed. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 17 Jun 2005 : 23:47:07
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
My spin on it is that faerzress is like a form of half-magic... Think of it like the Netherese mythallars. It creates a field of semi-magical energy, that does interact with the Weave (you can't teleport into areas with strong amounts of faerzress radiation).
Any thing in third to comfirm this (teleport) is still the case? Silence certainly can work on the matter of course, but afirmation or a report of a different effect more definitive.
quote:
The drow have, over the millennia, become accustomed to the Weave fluctuation caused by faerzress. Their spells have been tweaked to account for that -- kinda like the way you have to lead when firing at a moving target. But, once they were beyond the reach of the radiation, they were still casting spells the same way. However, now the Weave was stable, so the spells didn't go off the way they intended.
To again use my analogy above, you're used to throwing to a moving target; that's all you've ever done. When the target stops, you still throw the same way (because it's the only way you know how to throw), and thus miss.
The only problem I have with this is a spell caster to be effective must some how know the extent of radiation field as it is clear that it varies though out the underdark in intensity. I would picture spell casting not as much leading a target but instead compensation for amount of wind or breeze. Throwing a ball to hit a target (which line of sight spells are) leads one to throw it a different direction so that the wind will blow the ball to hit the traget. If this tends to apply then spell casting with no wind should not be hard to adjust to, however spells in very high winds (intense radiation) can not work. This would still make it hard to teleport within the underdark because the winds can not be felt over those types of ranges, however should make radition casting of line of sight in the underdark and on surface (because both areas have no radiation) should be adjusted for the wind. Oh there certainly could be errors for Drow casters that have not traveled and learned to cast in the same wind field, and some Drow never live the city they were born in. Adventuring Drow certainly should be more adaptible to dealing with the radiation intensity. This might cover most cases of why magic cast has errors.
quote:
Equating faerzress to mythallars also explains the drow race's almost-but-not-quite magical items.
I do like the half magic idea goes as to equipment explaination.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 17 Jun 2005 : 22:45:13
My spin on it is that faerzress is like a form of half-magic... Think of it like the Netherese mythallars. It creates a field of semi-magical energy, that does interact with the Weave (you can't teleport into areas with strong amounts of faerzress radiation).
The drow have, over the millennia, become accustomed to the Weave fluctuation caused by faerzress. Their spells have been tweaked to account for that -- kinda like the way you have to lead when firing at a moving target. But, once they were beyond the reach of the radiation, they were still casting spells the same way. However, now the Weave was stable, so the spells didn't go off the way they intended.
To again use my analogy above, you're used to throwing to a moving target; that's all you've ever done. When the target stops, you still throw the same way (because it's the only way you know how to throw), and thus miss.
Equating faerzress to mythallars also explains the drow race's almost-but-not-quite magical items. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 17 Jun 2005 : 22:35:45
quote:
Originally posted by KentinalI could have used the reverie as being part of the Weave in that other debate had I recalled it. Also IIRC most Drow and Elves use reverie as oposed to sleep. As to radiation that does not detect as magic (in Drow equipment) it certainly might somehow effect spell casting, just I know of no source material that indicates this.
We don't know what most drow and elves use. Some use sleep, some reverie, and so do neither! Hard to say. :) |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 17 Jun 2005 : 22:16:28
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
And so? That wasn't my point.[/qote]
Sorry did not understand that was the point you were making, I had thought you were making a different point.
[quote] My point was that even the drow use Weave magic. Maybe the underdark radiation has something to do with it but like normal magic, it's still Weave based. And since some drow also reverie they are still part of the Weave since reverie is part of the Weave. That last part about reverie is from Ed.
I could have used the reverie as being part of the Weave in that other debate had I recalled it. Also IIRC most Drow and Elves use reverie as oposed to sleep. As to radiation that does not detect as magic (in Drow equipment) it certainly might somehow effect spell casting, just I know of no source material that indicates this. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 17 Jun 2005 : 21:46:30
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Gromph uses the Weave for his magic in the last Spider Queen novel. :)
Well almost anyone that studies magic can use the Weave, not the same thing as part of the Weave.
And so? That wasn't my point. My point was that even the drow use Weave magic. Maybe the underdark radiation has something to do with it but like normal magic, it's still Weave based. And since some drow also reverie they are still part of the Weave since reverie is part of the Weave. That last part about reverie is from Ed. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 17 Jun 2005 : 20:05:18
quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
Also, I don’t want any major spoilers here, but I have yet to read the latest three Drizz’t books. Has RAS put anything about the fact that drow now have all their powers? Is Drizz’t levitating and resistant to spells now?
As for Drizz’t I do not know if has SR (which is different then MR) but should under the changes. Of course one thing about SR is it is simalar to AC (if spell caster is high enough level SR is no protection at all) for determining if hit.
As for levitating no Drow can do that unless to take Noble Drow (or some name like that) feat.
So if spell casters are high enough level and Drizz’t did not take the feat there is not need to change any thing writen about him at all. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 17 Jun 2005 : 19:52:41
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Gromph uses the Weave for his magic in the last Spider Queen novel. :)
Well almost anyone that studies magic can use the Weave, not the same thing as part of the Weave. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 17 Jun 2005 : 18:05:29
Gromph uses the Weave for his magic in the last Spider Queen novel. :) |
| Jindael |
Posted - 17 Jun 2005 : 14:45:58
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
Many sources point out that elves are part of the weave. Does this hold true for Drow, or not? Do they have the same connection (radiation aside) to magic as surface elves do, or not?
I was involved in a discussion about this and while 2nd did indicate Drow and Elves were of the Weave, that no 3rd source material indicate Drow are part of the Weave. Thus some hold the opinion that this is no longer the case. Makng it easier for Drow to use Shadow Weave (though Shar is a problem with this).
Well, if that’s the case, then I suppose that my fledgling idea won’t work. If it was true and 2nd edition, and no 3rd edition material has changed it, then I suppose that the Drow are still technically part of the weave.
See, primarily in the novels, the authors (mostly Ed Greenwood and Elaine Cunninghan) seem to indicate a difference in the type of magic. EG describes the magic of the elves as subtle and very very different from the powers of the Magelords. The elven spellcasters help the thieves sneak around the city and are additional eyes and ears, but don’t have battle magics. EC describes Liriel and other drow wizards as totally fascinated with “Surface” magic, seemingly indicating that it is much different from the way Drow cast spells. Liriel herself is almost totally bereft of her wizard spells when she is on the surface. However, we never see any problems with surface spellcasters in the underdark (aside from the normal teleportation problems).
The point I’m trying to make here is that it seems that different races/schools of thought have different ways of casting their spells. Liriel seems to indicate that in order to regain her abilities as a wizard, she will have to start all over, and in the same thought (I’m running off of memory here) she also indicates that it will take forever to learn a whole NEW way of casting spells.
In game rules, we know that there are just spells; that anyone can really use them as long as they have the required class. (this is true in all editions of the game). What Liriel seems to describe is “starting over at 1st level” basically.
We could easily put this in the “Drow draw (drew) upon the underdark radiation for spell power, rather than the weave” idea, but if they are still part of the weave then there is no reason for them to become dependant on it. Especially in light of the fact that they hate the surface elves so much, and a major weapon in their arsenal against then would be totally useless.
So, I propose the following theories:
A) Drow have a unique spellcasting system that, while superficially resembles other ways of spellcasting, has a wholly different way of learning. (Much like the difference between Elven Magic and the Magelords Magic in Elminster, the Making of a Mage.
B) The Drow are not part of the Weave. (3rd edition change.) When they were banished underground, Corellon severed their ties with the Weave, forcing the drow to adapt to the powerful underdark radiation. (This would be in lieu of them learning to cast spells like any of the other races, such as humans.)
C) Faerzress radiation fundamentally alters the structure of the weave. (Or, possibly, anomalies in the Weave cause faerzress radiation, which leads to some interesting ideas as to why the Weave has “issues” when underground.) Drow are still part of the Weave (as per 2nd edition) but the faerzress has altered the way they access it.
If (A) is true, then the Windwalker did nothing for Drow spellcasters, but it seems that it did, so (A) is likely untrue.
If (B) is true, then the Windwalker reversed Corellon’s judgement. This is…tricky. I suppose between Lolth’s increase in power, and Corellon’s daughter suddenly getting a boost in the power of her faithfull might stay his hand from reacting violently. It doesn’t nessisarlily mean that Drow would be part of the weave again. The Windwaker seemed to allow drow to cast their spells as thought they still were close to the faerzress, as this seemed to be what Liriel kept with her to keep her magic going.
(C) is my favorite idea, but I haven’t researched it deeply, so it’s just guesswork right now. The Windwalker has allowed the Drow to access the weave in the way they know how, meaning that Liriel found a loophole in divine judgment, allowing the Drow to not only cast spells, but keep all of their granted powers as well. A loophole that is beneficial to all deities of the elves and drow.
I have yet to read a reference to drow using the Shadow Weave. But I haven't read many of the newer novels about drow yet.
Also, I don’t want any major spoilers here, but I have yet to read the latest three Drizz’t books. Has RAS put anything about the fact that drow now have all their powers? Is Drizz’t levitating and resistant to spells now? |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 17 Jun 2005 : 14:05:25
quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
Many sources point out that elves are part of the weave. Does this hold true for Drow, or not? Do they have the same connection (radiation aside) to magic as surface elves do, or not?
I was involved in a discussion about this and while 2nd did indicate Drow and Elves were of the Weave, that no 3rd source material indicate Drow are part of the Weave. Thus some hold the opinion that this is no longer the case. Makng it easier for Drow to use Shadow Weave (though Shar is a problem with this).
quote:
Originally posted by Shayan
Anyways the reason why I asked, whether faerzress corrputs the 'soul' of the caster, was because I was trying to equate 'black magic' (no, not the Shadow Weave) to faerzress. So a 'good' (in the sense of Tyr) caster could use it, and then become corrupt/tainted, etc.
I was just thinking of taking one of my elven casters 'south'...
The one reason I would say no is because of the good Drow live both on the surface and in the underdark. Also 3rd has lessoned the effect of faerzress. In 2nd surface Drow lost MR if away from faerzress too long a period of time, in 3rd surface Drow have the same abilities as an underdark Drow, no matter how long they live in either location.
However there is enough not written/clarified that yes perhaps there is a corrupting force that many Elves (but not all) can be effected by faerzress and that Drow are just have a higher percentage chance then the durface Elves.
Something like 9 out of 10 Drow can be corrupted and 1 out of 100 other elves can be corrupted. It is your game and if something like this works for you, use it. |
| Shayan |
Posted - 17 Jun 2005 : 12:40:56
My theory is that Drow do not use the Weave... but instead they use faerzress as the source of energy for their spells. (This is some what confirmed in Starlight and Shadows: Daughter of the Drow - where Lilriel (sp?) collects somesort of a crystal with something to do with faerzress with the help of her two headed dragon acquaintance, and tries to store it in the Windwalker amulet. So that she can use magic on the surface.) So when the drow are on the surface, they tap into the Weave, which leads to unexpected results. (Sort of like: imagine if you were using oil to fry something all your life, then going to a new place, and trying to fry something in water (or some other golden colored liquid ), thinking it's oil.)
Anyways the reason why I asked, whether faerzress corrputs the 'soul' of the caster, was because I was trying to equate 'black magic' (no, not the Shadow Weave) to faerzress. So a 'good' (in the sense of Tyr) caster could use it, and then become corrupt/tainted, etc.
I was just thinking of taking one of my elven casters 'south'... |
| Jindael |
Posted - 17 Jun 2005 : 12:34:31
Many sources point out that elves are part of the weave. Does this hold true for Drow, or not? Do they have the same connection (radiation aside) to magic as surface elves do, or not? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 17 Jun 2005 : 11:31:43
quote:
Originally posted by Shayan
Hail!
I bring buried debates of the past.
Would one be shunned for theorizing (yes, tis a word) that faerzress corrupts those who use it?
My personal theory on why drow magic went awry on the surface involved faerzress. 
I can see the viewpoint that it's corrupting... |
| warlockco |
Posted - 17 Jun 2005 : 08:04:33
quote:
Originally posted by Shayan
Hail!
I bring buried debates of the past.
Would one be shunned for theorizing (yes, tis a word) that faerzress corrupts those who use it?
for those that use it, not sure, but for those that live within it, yes. There is the Faerzress-infused template in Underdark. |
| Shayan |
Posted - 17 Jun 2005 : 05:54:05
Hail!
I bring buried debates of the past.
Would one be shunned for theorizing (yes, tis a word) that faerzress corrupts those who use it? |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 05 Jan 2005 : 00:20:50
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
[quote]
If it's a lie, then why did it happen?
It clearly was a Wizard strke, just the malw Wizards are not legally allowed to strike, so called in sick instead. ;-) |
| warlockco |
Posted - 05 Jan 2005 : 00:11:47
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
Yeah, folks...I'm siding with Warlock...
I don't believe there is anything wrong with drow magic on the surface. If there were, it would have to be due to some sort of plan of Mystra's, as drow wizards do indeed draw from her.
So, I believe that it is 100% a lie concocted to excuse that wizardly assassination...
If it's a lie, then why did it happen?
What lie? I'm telling the truth, the alieness of the surface world caused my Fireball to engulf Alak, Sorn and Wode along with those nasty faeries. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 04 Jan 2005 : 23:17:43
quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
Yeah, folks...I'm siding with Warlock...
I don't believe there is anything wrong with drow magic on the surface. If there were, it would have to be due to some sort of plan of Mystra's, as drow wizards do indeed draw from her.
So, I believe that it is 100% a lie concocted to excuse that wizardly assassination...
If it's a lie, then why did it happen? |
| Arion Elenim |
Posted - 04 Jan 2005 : 20:22:41
Yeah, folks...I'm siding with Warlock...
I don't believe there is anything wrong with drow magic on the surface. If there were, it would have to be due to some sort of plan of Mystra's, as drow wizards do indeed draw from her.
So, I believe that it is 100% a lie concocted to excuse that wizardly assassination... |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 04 Jan 2005 : 02:47:19
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So then we go back to the divine tweak part of my argument. 
Also, the derro and duergar may live near the same radiation, but they don't take advantage of it the same way drow do.
Well divine tweak might be there, however I do not believe Corellon Larethian provided it.
Who said anything about Corellon? My theory is that it was Lolth who did the tweak. It makes sense -- they were her people, so tweaking them to enable them to thrive in a harsh environ would be a likely action.
Oh this is posible, Araushnee might have even done this before stripped of her divinity. As for Lolth I am uncertain when she manages to gain a minoe divine rank. 1st Edtion appears to still have her as a Demon after the desent. Which would make it rather hard for her to use divine powers. Of course newer material over write the older and Lolth increased in divine ranks from 2nd to 3rd. Perhaps she did have the power before the desent in the current history.
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
It certainly is clear that derro and duergar does not use the radiation in the same way, which still leads to Drow studing it and thus knowing the difference between the Weave and the radiation.
Sure, they know the difference... But still, if you're used to drawing from it or all your spells have been modified to operate normally around faerzress, then knowing the difference doesn't matter -- they were simply going with what they knew.
However no souce material I know of indicate that Drow spells were in anyway effected by faerzress that effected their use of the Weave. To follow your theory the further away from the faerzress the less effective their spell casting would be. Lower underdark spells more effective then upper underdark spells does not appear to exist. Casting a spell from the middle of a faerzress mine does not appear to be more powerful either. Thus I go with the theory that Drow indeed studied the radiation for crafting purposes and did not include the radiation with their use of the Weave.
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
And deep dwarves live in the Lower Underdark and the Drow live on all levels. Thus it does not explain why the Drow make effective use of the radiation. Also one should remember the Drow are the new kids on the block, many of the cities were taken from dwarves and other existing residents whom lived with the radiation longer.
But as you pointed out above, the drow make use of the radiation in ways other races don't. They have, by your own statement, studied it. So of course they'd know how to use it effectively...
Yup how to make items that disappear on the surface ;-) |
| DDH_101 |
Posted - 04 Jan 2005 : 02:27:22
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
And deep dwarves live in the Lower Underdark and the Drow live on all levels. Thus it does not explain why the Drow make effective use of the radiation. Also one should remember the Drow are the new kids on the block, many of the cities were taken from dwarves and other existing residents whom lived with the radiation longer.
Most of TODAY's dwarves, with the exception of duegars, live on the upper levels. Even the dwarven kingdoms in the Great Rift, who all go deep underground for mining and territory, stations their soldiers at the top level.
We do not know about the dwarves of all those years ago, as they are all dead... |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 03 Jan 2005 : 23:06:16
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So then we go back to the divine tweak part of my argument.
Also, the derro and duergar may live near the same radiation, but they don't take advantage of it the same way drow do.
Well divine tweak might be there, however I do not believe Corellon Larethian provided it.
Who said anything about Corellon? My theory is that it was Lolth who did the tweak. It makes sense -- they were her people, so tweaking them to enable them to thrive in a harsh environ would be a likely action.
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
It certainly is clear that derro and duergar does not use the radiation in the same way, which still leads to Drow studing it and thus knowing the difference between the Weave and the radiation.
Sure, they know the difference... But still, if you're used to drawing from it or all your spells have been modified to operate normally around faerzress, then knowing the difference doesn't matter -- they were simply going with what they knew.
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
And deep dwarves live in the Lower Underdark and the Drow live on all levels. Thus it does not explain why the Drow make effective use of the radiation. Also one should remember the Drow are the new kids on the block, many of the cities were taken from dwarves and other existing residents whom lived with the radiation longer.
But as you pointed out above, the drow make use of the radiation in ways other races don't. They have, by your own statement, studied it. So of course they'd know how to use it effectively... |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 03 Jan 2005 : 14:22:49
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
But Kentinal, the Underdark is like seperated into like Upper Underdark and Lower Underdark. The Upper levels aren't as bad as the lower ones, in terms of faerzess or its denizens.
And deep dwarves live in the Lower Underdark and the Drow live on all levels. Thus it does not explain why the Drow make effective use of the radiation. Also one should remember the Drow are the new kids on the block, many of the cities were taken from dwarves and other existing residents whom lived with the radiation longer. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 03 Jan 2005 : 14:09:46
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So then we go back to the divine tweak part of my argument.
Also, the derro and duergar may live near the same radiation, but they don't take advantage of it the same way drow do.
Well divine tweak might be there, however I do not believe Corellon Larethian provided it.
It certainly is clear that derro and duergar does not use the radiation in the same way, which still leads to Drow studing it and thus knowing the difference between the Weave and the radiation. |
| DDH_101 |
Posted - 03 Jan 2005 : 06:35:24
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
I'd like to point out that in general, dwarves don't go so deep as to encounter the radiations in any great abundance. The Underdark doesn't start right at one's feet -- you have to go down quite a ways to make the transfer from merely "underground" to entering the Underdark.
OK noted, however will counter note that deep Drawves also did not all have MR, the Derro had 30 percent and the Duergar had nil in 2nd edition. In 3rd neither have SR.
I certainly do grant that the underdark does not mean going into a cave, as for how deep before one encounters radiation I suspect that depends on the area. I do believe my point stands that radiation for deep Drawves is not the same as for Drow no matter how deep or shallow they might be. The ways of Toril are hard to understand.
But Kentinal, the Underdark is like seperated into like Upper Underdark and Lower Underdark. The Upper levels aren't as bad as the lower ones, in terms of faerzess or its denizens. |
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