| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Outlaw Pope |
Posted - 16 Nov 2022 : 12:34:55
Firstly; a pistonym is a word I came up with for the category of labels one can apply to a follower of a particular faith - from the Greek for faith (pistis) and the greek for name (onym). I otherwise have never found a word that appropriately covers this sort of label.
Secondly; for writing projects and just curiosity I documented a lot of Realms specific words that come up usually in 2e Deity Write Ups where they established the unique spells priests of so-and-so have - so these are sourced from Powers & Pantheons, Faiths & Avatars, and Demihuman Deities.
I only went with what is in those tomes. There may be others in 3e, 4e, 5e, and beyond. I also did not include anything for particular roles within a faith such as followers of Torm being called Tormish but the priesthood itself being called Tormtar.
Though that is something I might do another day. Anyway - let me know if you notice any mistakes or omissions - and sorry if a thread like this already exists but I could not seem to find one.
Faerūnian Major Powers:
Bane - Banite
Chauntea - Chauntean
Cyric - Cyricist (Clergy: the Sworn)
Kelemvor - Kelemvorite
Lathander - Lathanderite
Mystra - Mystran (Clergy: Servants of Mystery)
Oghma - Oghmanyte (Clergy: Loremasters)
Shar - Sharran
Silvanus - Silvanite (Clergy: Greenleaf Priesthood)
Sune - Sunite
Talos - Talassan
Tempus - Tempuran
Tyr - Tyrran
Ubtao - Ubtaoan
Faerūnian Intermediate Powers:
Beshaba - Beshaban
Gond - Gondar (Clergy: Krii - from the Lantanna for "disadvantaged")
Helm - Helmite
Ilmater - Ilmatari
Mielikki - Mielikkian (Alt: Walkers of the
Forest Way)
Selūne - Selūnite
Tymora - Tymoran
Umberlee - Umberlant
Faerūnian Lesser Powers:
Auril - Aurilan
Azuth - Azuthan
Bahamut - Bahamutan
Deneir - Deneiran (Clergy: Deneirrath)
Eldath - Eldathyn
Lliira - Lliiran
Loviatar - Loviatan (Archaic: Lovite)
Malar - Malarite
Mask - Maskarran
Milil - Mililan (Clergy: Sorlyn)
Shaundakul - Shaundakun
Talona - Talonite (Clergy: Talontar)
Tiamat - Tiamatan
Torm - Tormish (Clergy: Tormtar)
Uthgar - Uthgardt
Waukeen - Waukeenar
Faerūnian Demipowers:
Finder Wyvernspur - Finderite
Garagos - Garagathan
Gargauth - Gargauthan
Gwaeron Windstrom - Gwaeronan
Hoar - Hoarite
Jergal - Jergali
Lurue - Luruean
Nobanion - Nobanionite (Clergy: Pride of Nobanion)
Red Knight - Red Knight (Clergy: Red Fellowship)
Savras - Savrathan
Sharess - Sharessan (Clergy: Sharessin)
Shiallia - Shiallian (Clergy: Brothers/Sisters of Life and Mercy, Silent Helpers)
Siamorphe - Siamorphan (Clergy: Scions of Siamorphe)
Ulutiu - Ulutiun
Valkur - Valkuryte
Velsharoon - Velsharan
Dead Powers / Aspects:
Amaunator - Amaunatori
Bhaal - Bhaalist (westward to the Sword Coast) / Bhaalyn (favored east of the Dragonreach)
Bright Nydra - Nydrian
Eshowdow - Eshowdowan (Clergy: Eshewtak)
Gilgeam - Gilgeamite
Ibrandul - Ibrandulin
Iyachtu Xvim - Xvimist (Clergy: Xvimlar)
Karsus - Karsite (Clergy: Heartbloods)
Leira - Leiran
Moander - Moanderite (Clergy: Minions of Moander)
Myrkul - Myrkulyte
Elemental Lords:
Akadi - Akadian
Grumbar - Grumbarryn
Istishia - Istishian
Kossuth - Kossuthan
Chultan Powers
Eshowdow - Eshowdowan (Clergy: Eshewtak)
Sseth - Ssethssar
Ubtao - Ubtaoan
Mulhorandi Powers:
Anhur - Anhurite
Geb - Gebbite
Hathor - Hathoran
Horus-Re - Horus-Rethan
Isis - Isisan
Nephthys - Nepthysan
Osiris - Osiran
Sebek - Sebekan
Set - Setite
Thoth - Thothian
Netherese Powers:
Amaunator - Amaunatori
Jannath - Jannathan
Jergal - Jergali (He was actually known as Nakasr in this age but the tome still had this.)
Kozah - Kozahyn
Moander - Moanderite
Mystryl - Mystrylan
Selūne - Selūnite
Shar - Sharran
Targus - Targan
Tyche - Tychean
Zakharan Powers:
Bala - Balanite
Hajama - Hajamite
Hakiyah - Hakiyite
Haku - Hakite
Jauhar - Jauharite
Jisan - Jisanite
Kor - Korite
Najm - Najmite
Selan - Selanite
Zann - Zannite
Dark Seldarine:
Eilistraee - Eilistraean (Clergy: f: Dark Ladies, m: Reverent)
Ghaunadaur - Ghaunadauran
Kiaransalee - Kiaransaleen (Clergy: Crones of
Thanatos)
Lolth - Lolthite (Clergy: Yom'yathrin)
Selvetarm - Selvetarmite (Clergy: Selvetargtlin)
Vhaeraun - Vhaeraunan (Clergy: the Masked)
Draconic Powers:
Bahamut - Bahamutan
Null - Nullist
Tiamat - Tiamatan
Lords of the Golden Hills:
Baervan Wildwanderer - Baervanian
Baravar Cloakshadow - Baravarian
Callarduran Smoothhands - Callardurian
Flandal Steelskin - Flandalian
Gaerdal Ironhand - Gaerdalian
Garl Glittergold - Garlian
Gond / Nebelun - Gondar (Clergy: Krii - from the Lantanna for "disadvantaged")/ Nebelunan
Segojan Earthcaller - Segojian
Urdlen - Urdlenian
Morndinsamman:
Abbathor - Abbathoran
Berronar Truesilver - Berronan
Clangeddin Silverbeard - Clangeddite
Deep Duerra - Duerran
Dugmaren Brightmantle - Dugmarenite
Dumathoin - Dumathan
Gorm Gulthyn - Gormite
Haela Brightaxe - Haelan
Laduguer - Ladugueran
Marthammor Duin - Marthammoran
Moradin - Moradite
Sharindlar - Sharindlaran
Thard Harr - Thardite
Vergadain - Vergadainan
Seldarine:
Aerdrie Faenya - Aerdrian
Angharradh - Angharradhan
Corellon Larethian - Corellite
Deep Sashelas - Sashelan
Erevan Ilesere - Erevanian
Fenmarel Mestarine - Fenmarel
Hanali Celanil - Hanalian
Labelas Enoreth - Labelasan
Rillifane Rallathil - Rillifanean
Sehanine Moonbow - Sehanite
Shevarash - Shevarashan
Solonor Thelandira - Solonoran
Yondalla's Children:
Arvoreen - Arvoreenan
Brandobaris - Brandobarian
Cyrrollalee - Cyrrollaleen
Sheela Peryroyl - Sheelite
Tymora - Tymoran
Urogalan - Urogalanan
Yondalla - Yondallan
Monstrous & Other Powers:
Ao - Aoist
Skerrit - Skerram
Sources:
2e Cult of the Dragon
2e Faiths & Avatars
2e Demihuman Deities
2e Netheril - Empire of Magic
2e Powers & Pantheons
2e Al-Qadim - Land of Fate
3e Faiths & Pantheons
Polyhedron Issue #117
NWN: Shadows of Undrentide
https://discord.com/channels/1069709638636949574/1072136642162343986/1076332849550065714 |
| 24 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Asharak |
Posted - 03 Apr 2023 : 19:40:16
Lathander - Lathanderian (Lathanderite - clergy) |
| Asharak |
Posted - 02 Apr 2023 : 13:02:53
Here is my interpretation:
This name is a compromise retained by the scribes between, on the one hand, the popular term knightist, short and easy to remember, used in common parlance, and, on the other hand, the term adept of the Red Knight used in the high spheres of the Red Knight clergy. |
| Rymac |
Posted - 01 Apr 2023 : 21:37:58
quote:
Originally posted by Asharak
[Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide 4]
The Red Knight > red knightist
I would look at synonyms for red for inspiration. Some examples: scarlet, vermilion, cerise, cardinal
Cardinal jumps out as possibility, even if its a bit on the nose.
|
| Ayrik |
Posted - 01 Apr 2023 : 21:25:06
How about just "Red Knights"?
It's obvious who they serve and what they represent without an arbitrary eponym.
It seems like the only people who would use these (rather unoriginal) naming distinctions would be pedants and scholars who know nothing about the faiths except what other scholars have written. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 01 Apr 2023 : 15:50:44
quote:
Originally posted by Asharak
The Red Knight > red knightist
That is just awkward and I'd never use that one. It's more wordy, but I'd stick with "followers of the Red Knight" or "the Red Knight's worshippers."
Or a title -- like call all of them "Squires of the Red Knight."
(The power going by a title instead of a name is a little weird, to me) |
| Asharak |
Posted - 31 Mar 2023 : 21:39:37
[Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide 4]
Gruumsh > gruuman
Luthic > luthican
Bahgtru > bahgtrun
Hruggek > hruggekan
Maglubiyet > maglubiyan
Shargaas > shargaasan
Vaprak > vapran
The Red Knight > red knightist
Set > settite (two t)
|
| Asharak |
Posted - 31 Mar 2023 : 20:56:26
quote:
Originally posted by Outlaw Pope
quote:
Originally posted by Asharak
Fenmarel Mestarine - Fenmarel > Fenmaren
Do you have the source where that form comes from?
It is listed as Fenmarel in Demihuman Deities.
Demihuman Deities page 137 (Affiliated Orders: one time; Priestly Vestments: two times). |
| Outlaw Pope |
Posted - 19 Feb 2023 : 18:06:59
Got a new one from Ed himself on the Ed Discord, Skerrit's followers are called Skerram. |
| Outlaw Pope |
Posted - 06 Dec 2022 : 12:46:30
Found words for some of the Netherese variants. Will add them later - all from Netheril - Empire of Magic. |
| Azar |
Posted - 02 Dec 2022 : 10:27:25
"Tempuran"
They are forged in the batter of battle.
--- --- ---
Seriously speaking, however, while nicknames/terms of endearment/terms of disrespect of the various religions are themselves manifold, it's still nice to have the "core" denominations on hand. |
| Outlaw Pope |
Posted - 30 Nov 2022 : 06:03:50
Added some things I missed to the Dead Gods / Aspects category, namely the stuff about Karsus. Went and found a lot of the terms / phrases used to refer specifically to the clergy in those faiths as well if they mentioned. (Not so much as a title, but, as a collective.)
Also added missing Chultan Pantheon subcategory/redundant Ubtao. I forgot these were in Faiths and Avatars! Also the subsetting of Chult is so interesting and neat. Not really relevant to the thread but I find it weird he's even included, beyond his agreement with the Mulhorandi, Demihuman, and Faerunian pantheons /in/ the Faerunian in 3e. Like they apparently dropped all the flavor and lore when it was so neat and complex. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 29 Nov 2022 : 22:07:36
quote:
Originally posted by Outlaw Pope
I'd find it stranger if they didn't have specific words.
There should be some specific terms, but there are very different cases, since their cake is not cut the same way.
The first question is: what exactly would be given such identifiers? To summarize my musings above: since all (usually) elves are presumed to be common worshipers of united Seldarine pantheon, they don't have "lay worshipers" as a distinct group around a church. While the "associated orders" come with their own identifiers. Thus, in context of Seldarine worship all such terms would be for clergy proper.
quote:
considering how they have specific temples to specific powers, separate from the others even if some may claim them as one great pantheon.
Obviously, they have dedicated clergy, and temples are specific as long as the community size allows. Thus the tentative answer is that there should be some elven equivalent for human "of Tyr".
As above, the terms apply to the clergy group.
But for the same reason, clergy itself is not organized the same way. The churches are less self-contained: the entire community (including clergy that belongs to the other Seldarine deities) is invited as "lay worshipers" and a temple has stable niche in the affairs of the community. Also, roles other than priests (such as rangers) are mentioned, but seem to be integrated with priests rather than split into their own special orders (as e.g. paladins often are).
On the inside, there are of course various specific names, but from the outside the relevant information is "who is in charge" and "whom to approach when we need a priest", so a novice priest is much the same as a closely associated non-priest.
Which suggests something more like "of X" equivalent, clarified to "priest of X" when that's relevant.
quote:
Aside from that elves, as a whole, are also fractured like most peoples in the Realms and even what qualifies as a member of the Seldarine is up for debate among mortals. ... Try convincing your average Sun Elf of Evermeet that Khaalreshar is a legitimate power of half-elves or that Angaradh is anything more than a metaphor that Moon Elves have turned into some sort of near-heresy.
Sure, but they are still venerated as part of the Seldarine. Some may see this worship as a minor heresy, but it exists as a variation of the mainstream, firmly in the same context.
quote:
That and not all elves follow the Seldarine (with gods of magic, nature, Eilistraee, and more recently Torm due to his actions during the ToT).
And those are worshiped as clearly non-Seldarine.
Here we finally run into the same anomaly directly: Seldarine worship, "proper elven" lifestyle and the general elven attitudes are all linked too closely.
Which is why there are always other anomalies in the way the apostate elves behave; they often imitate whoever they picked the interloper deity from (if only because a conversion requires breaching the wall of infamous hugbox snobbery some deviation from the "Proper Elven Ways"), and as such they usually don't mix with a purely elven community.
A green elf worshiping Eilistraee is not just another green elf who happens to offer prayers to an unusual deity - she lives with the moondancers, and maybe paints her hair silver while she's at it.
Hence my theory that Aerdrie Faenia may be an interloper deity tacitly accepted in the circumstances when changes the converts display would not be drastic.
Mystra is a special case even among those anomalous cases. In that her interests are intrinsically aligned with that of the elvenkind, and even her human worshipers are almost never preachy (Halruaa is unusual in this).
Thus the refined questions:
Is apostasy (including choice of generally friendly interlopers) identified in terms different from dedicated worship of specific Seldarine powers? Do these terms vary, lumping the worshipers of interloper deities into several distinct groups? |
| Outlaw Pope |
Posted - 28 Nov 2022 : 21:20:16
quote:
Originally posted by Asharak
Fenmarel Mestarine - Fenmarel > Fenmaren
Do you have the source where that form comes from?
It is listed as Fenmarel in Demihuman Deities. |
| Asharak |
Posted - 28 Nov 2022 : 19:37:26
Fenmarel Mestarine - Fenmarel > Fenmaren |
| Outlaw Pope |
Posted - 28 Nov 2022 : 04:20:57
I agree that normal people are not going to be identifiably laity. A pistonym isn't for a normal person, though, they are for people who are directly part of the those cults or where their religion is important enough to identify by - and this is something that is clear elves do considering how they have specific temples to specific powers, separate from the others even if some may claim them as one great pantheon.
Aside from that elves, as a whole, are also fractured like most peoples in the Realms and even what qualifies as a member of the Seldarine is up for debate among mortals. That and not all elves follow the Seldarine (with gods of magic, nature, Eilistraee, and more recently Torm due to his actions during the ToT). Try convincing your average Sun Elf of Evermeet that Khaalreshar is a legitimate power of half-elves or that Angaradh is anything more than a metaphor that Moon Elves have turned into some sort of near-heresy.
I'd find it stranger if they didn't have specific words. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 27 Nov 2022 : 18:09:33
quote:
Originally posted by Outlaw Pope
No doubt at all elves have more elegant things than Correlite for a follower of the elf father. But these are words presented to us in the context of the lore tomes I think to describe persons, spells, and things from a more broad, inelegant, probably human way as pertains to a specific faith.
Why would they have special names for that?
This does not make much sense for the run-of-the-mill ("barbarian", per Zakharans) elves. They don't have distinctions like Torm's worshipers vs, Sune's worshipers, but are supposed to worship the Seldarine as a pantheon.
Perhaps this particular elf has a "phase" at some time of his life when he mostly focuses on one particular deity... but this does not define him as a member of some distinct group, and after all he can live long enough to go through several periods like this.
In rare cases where lay worshipers are forming a distinct group, their collective name is likely to address the traits that make them so distinct ("Haunted"/"Dark Avengers" for the Shevarashan crowd fits this).
Otherwise, only the specialized priests are persistently associated with a single deity. Even then, if they are known members of some deity-dedicated organization (like those Chaperones of the Moonlight Tryst), this probably should be prioritized. |
| Outlaw Pope |
Posted - 18 Nov 2022 : 23:31:24
FRA has a lot of nice post ToT nuggets. I think the Ill-Mater thing is just something normies like to laugh at because Ilmatari tend to be very passive (until they're not).
It does go over, however, that most people in the Realms despise Helm everywhere except the south because they specifically blame him for the ToT and its aftermath due to stories spreading from what was witnessed in Shadowdale most likely. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 18 Nov 2022 : 06:07:53
FRA mentions a slapstick comedy figure named "The Ill Mater" which had become a recurring character in popular stories, plays, and entertainments. Apparently, many people can be largely unaware of Ilmater's formal doctrines and church "pistonyms" yet be readily familiar with "The Ill Mater" depiction they've seen on stage, the bumbling fool who is endlessly pummeled and humiliated. They likely project the imagery they understand onto Ilmater and onto all the "fools" who worship Ilmater.
I wonder how much impact this new perception might have on Ilmater, since he (like every other god) is sustained by a symbiosis of faith. He must essentially be (or become) what people believe him to be. Even if that belief changes him for the worse.
And it's a little curious that Ilmater would receive such ill treatment, anyhow. If anything, the deity deserving of such mockery just after the Time of Troubles would be stubbornly blinded old Tyr. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 17 Nov 2022 : 21:56:18
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Different populations - with different cultures, languages, and understandings of the deities - would likely have different names for the faiths and their faithful. Especially for those deities they view as most sacred or as most profane.
Look at the names applied to religions in our own culture and history. Some of these names are from believers. Some are from nonbelievers, outside observers, or "enemies" of the faith. Each of the major faiths can be described with a variety of "pistonyms" - revered, respected, neutral, tolerant, intolerant, insulting, and hated - and using any particular "pistonym" often tacitly reveals one's cultural relationship to (or personal opinion of) the faith. Members of the faith typically use their own preferred "pistonyms" and identity - while the rest of the world typically devises any names or labels they like to fittingly describe the religion.
Yeah, a lot of people use the name Liars for Leirans, which is kind of rude given the connotations that they might not be telling the truth. The really rude ones call them "Farruking Liars". |
| Outlaw Pope |
Posted - 17 Nov 2022 : 12:54:50
Found Bright Nydria's pistonym in Polyhedron 117 - she's in the Dead Gods / Aspects part. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 17 Nov 2022 : 08:37:47
1E Old Grey Box and 2E Forgotten Realms Adventures have some older forms and titles which predate those published in 3E lore (then republished in 5E lore), of course. These sourcebooks also reference a few even older titles which were already considered obsolete in the (circa 1356-1358DR) setting they describe. (FRA also comprehensively defines the terminology you're attempting to reconstruct, though only for the main deities of the Faerun heartlands.)
You might find more relevant lore in various low-numbered Dungeon and Dragon publications which describe the deities and priesthoods of the era. And the online FR fandom wiki (which also conveniently cites all the sources it uses for information). |
| Outlaw Pope |
Posted - 17 Nov 2022 : 03:49:34
Obviously but these are the things given in the books in a whimsical, divorced from those words done-in-english-but-who-knows-what in Trade. No doubt at all elves have more elegant things than Correlite for a follower of the elf father. But these are words presented to us in the context of the lore tomes I think to describe persons, spells, and things from a more broad, inelegant, probably human way as pertains to a specific faith.
On Bhaalyn and Sorlyn, they are like Tormtar and Talontar. They are words for priesthoods, not the general laity or followers at large.
Priests of the Lord of Murder were known as either Bhaalists or Bhaalyn (the latter term being most favored east of the Dragonreach, the former westward to the Sword Coast) and were always a disorganized web of strictly local hierarchies.
-Faiths & Avatars, 45 (Seems some of the priesthood uses the generic, all-encompassing while those of Dragonreach favor the fancy one.)
For reasons lost in the mists of time, all clergy of Milil are known as Sorlyn (probably after a founding patriarch of the faith), and specialty priests of the faith are called tuneservants.
-Faiths & Avatars, 117
Priests and lay worshipers of Torm together (that is, anyone of his faith) are known as the Tormish. The members of the priesthood are known as Tormtar.
-Faiths & Avatars, 163
The Lady of Poisons attracts the cruel to her service; her priests tend to be self-sufficient, capableand sadistic. Priests of Talona are known as Talontar, and members of the faith as a whole (laity and clergy) are called Talonites.
-Faiths & Avatars, 153 |
| Athreeren |
Posted - 16 Nov 2022 : 18:18:49
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Different populations - with different cultures, languages, and understandings of the deities - would likely have different names for the faiths and their faithful.
Two examples are Bhaal and Milil, for whom the names you give are correct, but I've also encountered Bhaalyn and Sorlyn respectively. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 16 Nov 2022 : 17:34:44
Different populations - with different cultures, languages, and understandings of the deities - would likely have different names for the faiths and their faithful. Especially for those deities they view as most sacred or as most profane.
Look at the names applied to religions in our own culture and history. Some of these names are from believers. Some are from nonbelievers, outside observers, or "enemies" of the faith. Each of the major faiths can be described with a variety of "pistonyms" - revered, respected, neutral, tolerant, intolerant, insulting, and hated - and using any particular "pistonym" often tacitly reveals one's cultural relationship to (or personal opinion of) the faith. Members of the faith typically use their own preferred "pistonyms" and identity - while the rest of the world typically devises any names or labels they like to fittingly describe the religion. |
|
|
