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Outlaw Pope
Acolyte
43 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2022 : 12:34:55
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Firstly; a pistonym is a word I came up with for the category of labels one can apply to a follower of a particular faith - from the Greek for faith (pistis) and the greek for name (onym). I otherwise have never found a word that appropriately covers this sort of label.
Secondly; for writing projects and just curiosity I documented a lot of Realms specific words that come up usually in 2e Deity Write Ups where they established the unique spells priests of so-and-so have - so these are sourced from Powers & Pantheons, Faiths & Avatars, and Demihuman Deities.
I only went with what is in those tomes. There may be others in 3e, 4e, 5e, and beyond. I also did not include anything for particular roles within a faith such as followers of Torm being called Tormish but the priesthood itself being called Tormtar.
Though that is something I might do another day. Anyway - let me know if you notice any mistakes or omissions - and sorry if a thread like this already exists but I could not seem to find one.
Faerûnian Major Powers: Bane - Banite Chauntea - Chauntean Cyric - Cyricist (Clergy: the Sworn) Kelemvor - Kelemvorite Lathander - Lathanderite Mystra - Mystran (Clergy: Servants of Mystery) Oghma - Oghmanyte (Clergy: Loremasters) Shar - Sharran Silvanus - Silvanite (Clergy: Greenleaf Priesthood) Sune - Sunite Talos - Talassan Tempus - Tempuran Tyr - Tyrran Ubtao - Ubtaoan
Faerûnian Intermediate Powers: Beshaba - Beshaban Gond - Gondar (Clergy: Krii - from the Lantanna for "disadvantaged") Helm - Helmite Ilmater - Ilmatari Mielikki - Mielikkian (Alt: Walkers of the Forest Way) Selûne - Selûnite Tymora - Tymoran Umberlee - Umberlant
Faerûnian Lesser Powers: Auril - Aurilan Azuth - Azuthan Bahamut - Bahamutan Deneir - Deneiran (Clergy: Deneirrath) Eldath - Eldathyn Lliira - Lliiran Loviatar - Loviatan (Archaic: Lovite) Malar - Malarite Mask - Maskarran Milil - Mililan (Clergy: Sorlyn) Shaundakul - Shaundakun Talona - Talonite (Clergy: Talontar) Tiamat - Tiamatan Torm - Tormish (Clergy: Tormtar) Uthgar - Uthgardt Waukeen - Waukeenar
Faerûnian Demipowers: Finder Wyvernspur - Finderite Garagos - Garagathan Gargauth - Gargauthan Gwaeron Windstrom - Gwaeronan Hoar - Hoarite Jergal - Jergali Lurue - Luruean Nobanion - Nobanionite (Clergy: Pride of Nobanion) Red Knight - Red Knight (Clergy: Red Fellowship) Savras - Savrathan Sharess - Sharessan (Clergy: Sharessin) Shiallia - Shiallian (Clergy: Brothers/Sisters of Life and Mercy, Silent Helpers) Siamorphe - Siamorphan (Clergy: Scions of Siamorphe) Ulutiu - Ulutiun Valkur - Valkuryte Velsharoon - Velsharan
Dead Powers / Aspects: Amaunator - Amaunatori Bhaal - Bhaalist (westward to the Sword Coast) / Bhaalyn (favored east of the Dragonreach) Bright Nydra - Nydrian Eshowdow - Eshowdowan (Clergy: Eshewtak) Gilgeam - Gilgeamite Ibrandul - Ibrandulin Iyachtu Xvim - Xvimist (Clergy: Xvimlar) Karsus - Karsite (Clergy: Heartbloods) Leira - Leiran Moander - Moanderite (Clergy: Minions of Moander) Myrkul - Myrkulyte
Elemental Lords: Akadi - Akadian Grumbar - Grumbarryn Istishia - Istishian Kossuth - Kossuthan
Chultan Powers Eshowdow - Eshowdowan (Clergy: Eshewtak) Sseth - Ssethssar Ubtao - Ubtaoan
Mulhorandi Powers: Anhur - Anhurite Geb - Gebbite Hathor - Hathoran Horus-Re - Horus-Rethan Isis - Isisan Nephthys - Nepthysan Osiris - Osiran Sebek - Sebekan Set - Setite Thoth - Thothian
Netherese Powers: Amaunator - Amaunatori Jannath - Jannathan Jergal - Jergali (He was actually known as Nakasr in this age but the tome still had this.) Kozah - Kozahyn Moander - Moanderite Mystryl - Mystrylan Selûne - Selûnite Shar - Sharran Targus - Targan Tyche - Tychean
Zakharan Powers: Bala - Balanite Hajama - Hajamite Hakiyah - Hakiyite Haku - Hakite Jauhar - Jauharite Jisan - Jisanite Kor - Korite Najm - Najmite Selan - Selanite Zann - Zannite
Dark Seldarine: Eilistraee - Eilistraean (Clergy: f: Dark Ladies, m: Reverent) Ghaunadaur - Ghaunadauran Kiaransalee - Kiaransaleen (Clergy: Crones of Thanatos) Lolth - Lolthite (Clergy: Yom'yathrin) Selvetarm - Selvetarmite (Clergy: Selvetargtlin) Vhaeraun - Vhaeraunan (Clergy: the Masked)
Draconic Powers: Bahamut - Bahamutan Null - Nullist Tiamat - Tiamatan
Lords of the Golden Hills: Baervan Wildwanderer - Baervanian Baravar Cloakshadow - Baravarian Callarduran Smoothhands - Callardurian Flandal Steelskin - Flandalian Gaerdal Ironhand - Gaerdalian Garl Glittergold - Garlian Gond / Nebelun - Gondar (Clergy: Krii - from the Lantanna for "disadvantaged")/ Nebelunan Segojan Earthcaller - Segojian Urdlen - Urdlenian
Morndinsamman: Abbathor - Abbathoran Berronar Truesilver - Berronan Clangeddin Silverbeard - Clangeddite Deep Duerra - Duerran Dugmaren Brightmantle - Dugmarenite Dumathoin - Dumathan Gorm Gulthyn - Gormite Haela Brightaxe - Haelan Laduguer - Ladugueran Marthammor Duin - Marthammoran Moradin - Moradite Sharindlar - Sharindlaran Thard Harr - Thardite Vergadain - Vergadainan
Seldarine: Aerdrie Faenya - Aerdrian Angharradh - Angharradhan Corellon Larethian - Corellite Deep Sashelas - Sashelan Erevan Ilesere - Erevanian Fenmarel Mestarine - Fenmarel Hanali Celanil - Hanalian Labelas Enoreth - Labelasan Rillifane Rallathil - Rillifanean Sehanine Moonbow - Sehanite Shevarash - Shevarashan Solonor Thelandira - Solonoran
Yondalla's Children: Arvoreen - Arvoreenan Brandobaris - Brandobarian Cyrrollalee - Cyrrollaleen Sheela Peryroyl - Sheelite Tymora - Tymoran Urogalan - Urogalanan Yondalla - Yondallan
Monstrous & Other Powers: Ao - Aoist Skerrit - Skerram
Sources: 2e Cult of the Dragon 2e Faiths & Avatars 2e Demihuman Deities 2e Netheril - Empire of Magic 2e Powers & Pantheons 2e Al-Qadim - Land of Fate 3e Faiths & Pantheons Polyhedron Issue #117 NWN: Shadows of Undrentide https://discord.com/channels/1069709638636949574/1072136642162343986/1076332849550065714
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Edited by - Outlaw Pope on 19 Feb 2023 20:01:22
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2022 : 17:34:44
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Different populations - with different cultures, languages, and understandings of the deities - would likely have different names for the faiths and their faithful. Especially for those deities they view as most sacred or as most profane.
Look at the names applied to religions in our own culture and history. Some of these names are from believers. Some are from nonbelievers, outside observers, or "enemies" of the faith. Each of the major faiths can be described with a variety of "pistonyms" - revered, respected, neutral, tolerant, intolerant, insulting, and hated - and using any particular "pistonym" often tacitly reveals one's cultural relationship to (or personal opinion of) the faith. Members of the faith typically use their own preferred "pistonyms" and identity - while the rest of the world typically devises any names or labels they like to fittingly describe the religion. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 16 Nov 2022 17:48:11 |
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Athreeren
Learned Scribe
144 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2022 : 18:18:49
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quote: Originally posted by Ayrik
Different populations - with different cultures, languages, and understandings of the deities - would likely have different names for the faiths and their faithful.
Two examples are Bhaal and Milil, for whom the names you give are correct, but I've also encountered Bhaalyn and Sorlyn respectively. |
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Outlaw Pope
Acolyte
43 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2022 : 03:49:34
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Obviously but these are the things given in the books in a whimsical, divorced from those words done-in-english-but-who-knows-what in Trade. No doubt at all elves have more elegant things than Correlite for a follower of the elf father. But these are words presented to us in the context of the lore tomes I think to describe persons, spells, and things from a more broad, inelegant, probably human way as pertains to a specific faith.
On Bhaalyn and Sorlyn, they are like Tormtar and Talontar. They are words for priesthoods, not the general laity or followers at large.
Priests of the Lord of Murder were known as either Bhaalists or Bhaalyn (the latter term being most favored east of the Dragonreach, the former westward to the Sword Coast) and were always a disorganized web of strictly local hierarchies. -Faiths & Avatars, 45 (Seems some of the priesthood uses the generic, all-encompassing while those of Dragonreach favor the fancy one.)
For reasons lost in the mists of time, all clergy of Milil are known as Sorlyn (probably after a founding patriarch of the faith), and specialty priests of the faith are called tuneservants. -Faiths & Avatars, 117
Priests and lay worshipers of Torm together (that is, anyone of his faith) are known as the Tormish. The members of the priesthood are known as Tormtar. -Faiths & Avatars, 163
The Lady of Poisons attracts the cruel to her service; her priests tend to be self-sufficient, capable—and sadistic. Priests of Talona are known as Talontar, and members of the faith as a whole (laity and clergy) are called Talonites. -Faiths & Avatars, 153 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2022 : 08:37:47
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1E Old Grey Box and 2E Forgotten Realms Adventures have some older forms and titles which predate those published in 3E lore (then republished in 5E lore), of course. These sourcebooks also reference a few even older titles which were already considered obsolete in the (circa 1356-1358DR) setting they describe. (FRA also comprehensively defines the terminology you're attempting to reconstruct, though only for the main deities of the Faerun heartlands.)
You might find more relevant lore in various low-numbered Dungeon and Dragon publications which describe the deities and priesthoods of the era. And the online FR fandom wiki (which also conveniently cites all the sources it uses for information). |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 17 Nov 2022 08:40:08 |
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Outlaw Pope
Acolyte
43 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2022 : 12:54:50
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Found Bright Nydria's pistonym in Polyhedron 117 - she's in the Dead Gods / Aspects part. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2022 : 21:56:18
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quote: Originally posted by Ayrik
Different populations - with different cultures, languages, and understandings of the deities - would likely have different names for the faiths and their faithful. Especially for those deities they view as most sacred or as most profane.
Look at the names applied to religions in our own culture and history. Some of these names are from believers. Some are from nonbelievers, outside observers, or "enemies" of the faith. Each of the major faiths can be described with a variety of "pistonyms" - revered, respected, neutral, tolerant, intolerant, insulting, and hated - and using any particular "pistonym" often tacitly reveals one's cultural relationship to (or personal opinion of) the faith. Members of the faith typically use their own preferred "pistonyms" and identity - while the rest of the world typically devises any names or labels they like to fittingly describe the religion.
Yeah, a lot of people use the name Liars for Leirans, which is kind of rude given the connotations that they might not be telling the truth. The really rude ones call them "Farruking Liars". |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 17 Nov 2022 21:57:33 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2022 : 06:07:53
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FRA mentions a slapstick comedy figure named "The Ill Mater" which had become a recurring character in popular stories, plays, and entertainments. Apparently, many people can be largely unaware of Ilmater's formal doctrines and church "pistonyms" yet be readily familiar with "The Ill Mater" depiction they've seen on stage, the bumbling fool who is endlessly pummeled and humiliated. They likely project the imagery they understand onto Ilmater and onto all the "fools" who worship Ilmater.
I wonder how much impact this new perception might have on Ilmater, since he (like every other god) is sustained by a symbiosis of faith. He must essentially be (or become) what people believe him to be. Even if that belief changes him for the worse.
And it's a little curious that Ilmater would receive such ill treatment, anyhow. If anything, the deity deserving of such mockery just after the Time of Troubles would be stubbornly blinded old Tyr. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Outlaw Pope
Acolyte
43 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2022 : 23:31:24
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FRA has a lot of nice post ToT nuggets. I think the Ill-Mater thing is just something normies like to laugh at because Ilmatari tend to be very passive (until they're not).
It does go over, however, that most people in the Realms despise Helm everywhere except the south because they specifically blame him for the ToT and its aftermath due to stories spreading from what was witnessed in Shadowdale most likely. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2428 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2022 : 18:09:33
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quote: Originally posted by Outlaw Pope
No doubt at all elves have more elegant things than Correlite for a follower of the elf father. But these are words presented to us in the context of the lore tomes I think to describe persons, spells, and things from a more broad, inelegant, probably human way as pertains to a specific faith.
Why would they have special names for that? This does not make much sense for the run-of-the-mill ("barbarian", per Zakharans) elves. They don't have distinctions like Torm's worshipers vs, Sune's worshipers, but are supposed to worship the Seldarine as a pantheon. Perhaps this particular elf has a "phase" at some time of his life when he mostly focuses on one particular deity... but this does not define him as a member of some distinct group, and after all he can live long enough to go through several periods like this. In rare cases where lay worshipers are forming a distinct group, their collective name is likely to address the traits that make them so distinct ("Haunted"/"Dark Avengers" for the Shevarashan crowd fits this). Otherwise, only the specialized priests are persistently associated with a single deity. Even then, if they are known members of some deity-dedicated organization (like those Chaperones of the Moonlight Tryst), this probably should be prioritized. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Outlaw Pope
Acolyte
43 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2022 : 04:20:57
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I agree that normal people are not going to be identifiably laity. A pistonym isn't for a normal person, though, they are for people who are directly part of the those cults or where their religion is important enough to identify by - and this is something that is clear elves do considering how they have specific temples to specific powers, separate from the others even if some may claim them as one great pantheon.
Aside from that elves, as a whole, are also fractured like most peoples in the Realms and even what qualifies as a member of the Seldarine is up for debate among mortals. That and not all elves follow the Seldarine (with gods of magic, nature, Eilistraee, and more recently Torm due to his actions during the ToT). Try convincing your average Sun Elf of Evermeet that Khaalreshar is a legitimate power of half-elves or that Angaradh is anything more than a metaphor that Moon Elves have turned into some sort of near-heresy.
I'd find it stranger if they didn't have specific words. |
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Asharak
Learned Scribe
France
270 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2022 : 19:37:26
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Fenmarel Mestarine - Fenmarel > Fenmaren |
"Soyez réalistes : demandez l'impossible"
Sorry for my English... it's not my native tongue. |
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Outlaw Pope
Acolyte
43 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2022 : 21:20:16
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quote: Originally posted by Asharak
Fenmarel Mestarine - Fenmarel > Fenmaren
Do you have the source where that form comes from?
It is listed as Fenmarel in Demihuman Deities. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2428 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2022 : 22:07:36
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quote: Originally posted by Outlaw Pope
I'd find it stranger if they didn't have specific words.
There should be some specific terms, but there are very different cases, since their cake is not cut the same way. The first question is: what exactly would be given such identifiers? To summarize my musings above: since all (usually) elves are presumed to be common worshipers of united Seldarine pantheon, they don't have "lay worshipers" as a distinct group around a church. While the "associated orders" come with their own identifiers. Thus, in context of Seldarine worship all such terms would be for clergy proper.
quote: considering how they have specific temples to specific powers, separate from the others even if some may claim them as one great pantheon.
Obviously, they have dedicated clergy, and temples are specific as long as the community size allows. Thus the tentative answer is that there should be some elven equivalent for human "of Tyr". As above, the terms apply to the clergy group. But for the same reason, clergy itself is not organized the same way. The churches are less self-contained: the entire community (including clergy that belongs to the other Seldarine deities) is invited as "lay worshipers" and a temple has stable niche in the affairs of the community. Also, roles other than priests (such as rangers) are mentioned, but seem to be integrated with priests rather than split into their own special orders (as e.g. paladins often are). On the inside, there are of course various specific names, but from the outside the relevant information is "who is in charge" and "whom to approach when we need a priest", so a novice priest is much the same as a closely associated non-priest. Which suggests something more like "of X" equivalent, clarified to "priest of X" when that's relevant.
quote: Aside from that elves, as a whole, are also fractured like most peoples in the Realms and even what qualifies as a member of the Seldarine is up for debate among mortals. ... Try convincing your average Sun Elf of Evermeet that Khaalreshar is a legitimate power of half-elves or that Angaradh is anything more than a metaphor that Moon Elves have turned into some sort of near-heresy.
Sure, but they are still venerated as part of the Seldarine. Some may see this worship as a minor heresy, but it exists as a variation of the mainstream, firmly in the same context.
quote: That and not all elves follow the Seldarine (with gods of magic, nature, Eilistraee, and more recently Torm due to his actions during the ToT).
And those are worshiped as clearly non-Seldarine. Here we finally run into the same anomaly directly: Seldarine worship, "proper elven" lifestyle and the general elven attitudes are all linked too closely. Which is why there are always other anomalies in the way the apostate elves behave; they often imitate whoever they picked the interloper deity from (if only because a conversion requires breaching the wall of infamous hugbox snobbery some deviation from the "Proper Elven Ways"), and as such they usually don't mix with a purely elven community. A green elf worshiping Eilistraee is not just another green elf who happens to offer prayers to an unusual deity - she lives with the moondancers, and maybe paints her hair silver while she's at it. Hence my theory that Aerdrie Faenia may be an interloper deity tacitly accepted in the circumstances when changes the converts display would not be drastic. Mystra is a special case even among those anomalous cases. In that her interests are intrinsically aligned with that of the elvenkind, and even her human worshipers are almost never preachy (Halruaa is unusual in this). Thus the refined questions: Is apostasy (including choice of generally friendly interlopers) identified in terms different from dedicated worship of specific Seldarine powers? Do these terms vary, lumping the worshipers of interloper deities into several distinct groups? |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
Edited by - TBeholder on 29 Nov 2022 22:17:39 |
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Outlaw Pope
Acolyte
43 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2022 : 06:03:50
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Added some things I missed to the Dead Gods / Aspects category, namely the stuff about Karsus. Went and found a lot of the terms / phrases used to refer specifically to the clergy in those faiths as well if they mentioned. (Not so much as a title, but, as a collective.)
Also added missing Chultan Pantheon subcategory/redundant Ubtao. I forgot these were in Faiths and Avatars! Also the subsetting of Chult is so interesting and neat. Not really relevant to the thread but I find it weird he's even included, beyond his agreement with the Mulhorandi, Demihuman, and Faerunian pantheons /in/ the Faerunian in 3e. Like they apparently dropped all the flavor and lore when it was so neat and complex. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1309 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2022 : 10:27:25
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"Tempuran"
They are forged in the batter of battle.
--- --- ---
Seriously speaking, however, while nicknames/terms of endearment/terms of disrespect of the various religions are themselves manifold, it's still nice to have the "core" denominations on hand. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Outlaw Pope
Acolyte
43 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2022 : 12:46:30
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Found words for some of the Netherese variants. Will add them later - all from Netheril - Empire of Magic. |
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Outlaw Pope
Acolyte
43 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2023 : 18:06:59
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Got a new one from Ed himself on the Ed Discord, Skerrit's followers are called Skerram. |
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Asharak
Learned Scribe
France
270 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2023 : 20:56:26
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quote: Originally posted by Outlaw Pope
quote: Originally posted by Asharak
Fenmarel Mestarine - Fenmarel > Fenmaren
Do you have the source where that form comes from?
It is listed as Fenmarel in Demihuman Deities.
Demihuman Deities page 137 (Affiliated Orders: one time; Priestly Vestments: two times). |
"Soyez réalistes : demandez l'impossible"
Sorry for my English... it's not my native tongue. |
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Asharak
Learned Scribe
France
270 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2023 : 21:39:37
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[Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide 4]
Gruumsh > gruuman Luthic > luthican Bahgtru > bahgtrun Hruggek > hruggekan Maglubiyet > maglubiyan Shargaas > shargaasan Vaprak > vapran
The Red Knight > red knightist
Set > settite (two t)
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"Soyez réalistes : demandez l'impossible"
Sorry for my English... it's not my native tongue. |
Edited by - Asharak on 01 Apr 2023 12:21:19 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2023 : 15:50:44
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quote: Originally posted by Asharak
The Red Knight > red knightist
That is just awkward and I'd never use that one. It's more wordy, but I'd stick with "followers of the Red Knight" or "the Red Knight's worshippers."
Or a title -- like call all of them "Squires of the Red Knight."
(The power going by a title instead of a name is a little weird, to me) |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2023 : 21:25:06
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How about just "Red Knights"?
It's obvious who they serve and what they represent without an arbitrary eponym.
It seems like the only people who would use these (rather unoriginal) naming distinctions would be pedants and scholars who know nothing about the faiths except what other scholars have written. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Rymac
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2023 : 21:37:58
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quote: Originally posted by Asharak
[Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide 4]
The Red Knight > red knightist
I would look at synonyms for red for inspiration. Some examples: scarlet, vermilion, cerise, cardinal
Cardinal jumps out as possibility, even if it’s a bit on the nose.
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- Ryan |
Edited by - Rymac on 02 Apr 2023 01:36:18 |
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Asharak
Learned Scribe
France
270 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2023 : 13:02:53
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Here is my interpretation: This name is a compromise retained by the scribes between, on the one hand, the popular term knightist, short and easy to remember, used in common parlance, and, on the other hand, the term adept of the Red Knight used in the high spheres of the Red Knight clergy. |
"Soyez réalistes : demandez l'impossible"
Sorry for my English... it's not my native tongue. |
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Asharak
Learned Scribe
France
270 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2023 : 19:40:16
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Lathander - Lathanderian (Lathanderite - clergy) |
"Soyez réalistes : demandez l'impossible"
Sorry for my English... it's not my native tongue. |
Edited by - Asharak on 03 Apr 2023 19:40:49 |
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