| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Sluban |
Posted - 26 Oct 2013 : 16:11:50
So do female dwarfs have a beards? I remember that in Icewind 1 and Baldur 1 they had a beards, but in all newer FR computer games(Neverwinter 1 and 2, Baldur and Icewind 2, Neverwinter Online) they haven't. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| hashimashadoo |
Posted - 12 Nov 2013 : 05:47:37
That brings up an entirely different mental image considering the latest definition of the word 'twerking'. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 12 Nov 2013 : 02:44:46
Does <this> shed any light on the situation?  
Bah! She ain't a real dwarf. She just be a wee human. A real dwarf woman would twerk her whiskers!  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 10 Nov 2013 : 17:13:07
While I'm not really into the idea of bearded woman, I do like the idea of dwarven women with beards, simply because it makes them different. It's not a huge difference, true, but it's still better than the basic "just like humans, only shorter and stockier" idea for dwarves. And the cultural aspects of beard pride are a nice variation, as well. |
| hashimashadoo |
Posted - 10 Nov 2013 : 16:56:59
quote:
Originally posted by deserk
I couldn't imagine any female player would be interested in playing a bearded dwarf woman either.
I played with one in the summer of this very year. |
| deserk |
Posted - 10 Nov 2013 : 09:00:11
I've personally never been a fan of the idea of female dwarves having beards, just sounds too Lord of the Ring-sy (we don't need to pick up everything from LotR) and makes them more comical and ridiculous. I couldn't imagine any female player would be interested in playing a bearded dwarf woman either. So yeah I go with the idea that it's a rare phenomenon in my campaigns at least. Unless someone really wants to play that of course. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 10 Nov 2013 : 04:50:42
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Pish posh - my vehement objections trump any 4th E lore :D
I'm not fan of 4E, either... But as I quoted a few days ago, 2E FR-specific lore, 3E FR-specific lore, and 4E FR-specific lore, all have dwarven ladies getting their beard on.  |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 10 Nov 2013 : 04:30:34
Pish posh - my vehement objections trump any 4th E lore :D |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 09 Nov 2013 : 23:52:11
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Perhaps - somehow - the dwarven races were altered by the Spellplague or the 100-year timejump? It‘s reaching a bit, but nothing is impossible in the Realms.
“Canon“ is technically whatever is official and most recent, even though we might not agree with it and want our bearded dwarven ladies back! Just sayin‘ that personal bias (and even vehement rejections) aside, we must reluctantly recognize 4E lore as being proper canon.
But setting-specific lore trumps core lore. And in 4E FR lore, we have this, which I quoted earlier, from page 14 of the 4E Forgotten Realms Player's Guide:
quote:
They wear their black to dark brown hair long, and males (and rarely females) sport long beards, carefully oiled and groomed.
|
| Ayrik |
Posted - 09 Nov 2013 : 19:29:14
Perhaps - somehow - the dwarven races were altered by the Spellplague or the 100-year timejump? It‘s reaching a bit, but nothing is impossible in the Realms.
“Canon“ is technically whatever is official and most recent, even though we might not agree with it and want our bearded dwarven ladies back! Just sayin‘ that personal bias (and even vehement rejections) aside, we must reluctantly recognize 4E lore as being proper canon. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 09 Nov 2013 : 19:24:26
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
I updated the wiki page last night with canon info from actual FR sources - none of this 4e PHB nonsense where 'it's a common misconception that females have beards'.
4E: It's a common misconception that it's a common misconception . . .  |
| hashimashadoo |
Posted - 09 Nov 2013 : 17:13:03
I updated the wiki page last night with canon info from actual FR sources - none of this 4e PHB nonsense where 'it's a common misconception that females have beards'. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 08 Nov 2013 : 23:37:34
Back to dwarves ...
I do recall a few mentions of male dwarves shaving their mighty beards, perhaps saving only two single strands, as a sign of extreme shame or penance for crimes against their clans. I imagine that extremist dwarves (and really, what dwarf isn‘t extremely serious?) Might react poorly to female dwarves who shave in similar fashion. |
| Lilianviaten |
Posted - 07 Nov 2013 : 23:43:54
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten
Dragons are very impressive and engaging creatures, but I just couldn't. I remember when Jarlaxle was sleeping with that dragon in "Road of the Patriarch", and Entreri was appalled by the idea. Even if she's disguised as a beautiful woman, the thought of her being able to consume me in her natural form would ruin any possible attraction.
That would add to the allure, for some people... I think most people -- especially in the heat of the moment -- would be more inclined to think of the current appearance of their partner, not what their partner looks like at other times.
Touche. The here and now does tend to overwhelm the senses. |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 07 Nov 2013 : 17:42:39
Yup, and some like dangerous playmates, just for thrills. Vampire, genie, demon, dragon - anything goes. Jarlaxle being a drow, it would be more surprising if this was not the case. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 07 Nov 2013 : 14:08:56
quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten
Dragons are very impressive and engaging creatures, but I just couldn't. I remember when Jarlaxle was sleeping with that dragon in "Road of the Patriarch", and Entreri was appalled by the idea. Even if she's disguised as a beautiful woman, the thought of her being able to consume me in her natural form would ruin any possible attraction.
That would add to the allure, for some people... I think most people -- especially in the heat of the moment -- would be more inclined to think of the current appearance of their partner, not what their partner looks like at other times. |
| Lilianviaten |
Posted - 07 Nov 2013 : 13:44:15
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Agreed with ESdB ... I just can‘t imagine why in the Nine Hells anyone might think drow are attractive, but the unusual preponderance (some might say “invasion“) of drow in 3E-onwards lore seems to suggest that my anti-drow (aw, I confess, my anti-elven) bigotry is something of a minority.
Check out the old book covers from the "Starlight & Shadows" trilogy. Especially the one from "Tangled Webs" (the 2nd book). Liriel Baenre is smoking hot!
Even if you don't see "sexy" in the cover art, the books describe very well why drow are considered so attractive. The guys tend to have thin, but well muscled bodies. The women are usually thin, but shapely. Both genders have the fine, delicate facial features you would expect of elves.
I'm not saying that look is everybody's cup of tea, but look around. Men and women who meet that description tend not to lack for romantic attention. Also, the whole drow culture is dedicated toward manipulation and deceit. To that end, drow learn seduction from the time they are very young. So even when other races are not physically attracted to the drow, the drow can still draw them in most of the time.
The ones I have trouble understanding are ogres, orcs, and dragons. Ogres and orcs are depicted as not only physically repulsive, but also stupid, brutish, savage, and generally beneath most races in every conceivable category. There isn't any allure there.
Dragons are very impressive and engaging creatures, but I just couldn't. I remember when Jarlaxle was sleeping with that dragon in "Road of the Patriarch", and Entreri was appalled by the idea. Even if she's disguised as a beautiful woman, the thought of her being able to consume me in her natural form would ruin any possible attraction. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 31 Oct 2013 : 00:29:04
Agreed with ESdB ... I just can‘t imagine why in the Nine Hells anyone might think drow are attractive, but the unusual preponderance (some might say “invasion“) of drow in 3E-onwards lore seems to suggest that my anti-drow (aw, I confess, my anti-elven) bigotry is something of a minority. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 30 Oct 2013 : 15:26:01
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I like the 'alchemical solution' theory - that works for me.
IMG, I have it where, within their own communities, female dwarves proudly sport their beards, and their men appreciate them. When amongst other cultures - where most of us encounter female dwarves (like in Waterdeep) - they follow the local 'norms' for such things (because dwarves HATE being the 'center of attention', and greatly dislike being stared at). Thats my take, anyway.
Thus, IMG, all female dwarves can have beards, but you will probably never see one like that.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Maybe some a-hole dwarves decided to "shame" some dwarf female who stood up against them by raping and shaving her, and in an act of community healing every other dwarf female shaved themselves and it became a trend.
WOW 
And I thought I was the master of the 'shock post'. Thats some heavy s*** right there. Very 'Ellen Jamesian' (from The World According to Garp).
Yeah, but I can see it easily happening in communities where Duergar are being brought into the fold. Maybe they're used to women who do what they say. I can see this kind of thing opening old wounds too and restarting clan wars.
Oh, and yeah, I see female dwarves shaving... but I'm more inclined to an alchemical solution. Something that makes the hair fall out but leaves the skin supple still. |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 30 Oct 2013 : 04:29:52
Different people find different things attractive. The fact that YOU do not find bearded women, orc/half-Orc women, or muscular women attractive does not mean that nobody does. After all, where do half-orcs come from? And no, they don't all have a tragic backstory:
Cheers |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 29 Oct 2013 : 15:32:07
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I like the 'alchemical solution' theory - that works for me.
Nehr's Potion of Hair Removal?  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 29 Oct 2013 : 14:38:56
I like the 'alchemical solution' theory - that works for me.
IMG, I have it where, within their own communities, female dwarves proudly sport their beards, and their men appreciate them. When amongst other cultures - where most of us encounter female dwarves (like in Waterdeep) - they follow the local 'norms' for such things (because dwarves HATE being the 'center of attention', and greatly dislike being stared at). Thats my take, anyway.
Thus, IMG, all female dwarves can have beards, but you will probably never see one like that.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Maybe some a-hole dwarves decided to "shame" some dwarf female who stood up against them by raping and shaving her, and in an act of community healing every other dwarf female shaved themselves and it became a trend.
WOW
And I thought I was the master of the 'shock post'. Thats some heavy s*** right there. Very 'Ellen Jamesian' (from The World According to Garp). |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 28 Oct 2013 : 22:43:16
Female dwarves have been described as bearded and unbearded in multiple sources. Although WotC decided, as of 4E, that these dwarves do not have beards. Female dwarves were once described as frequently passing themselves off as male dwarves to ignorant misshapen tall folk, so I assume that some may prefer to maintain this ruse regardless of D&D edition.
I personally prefer my dwarven females bearded, and they often employ perfumes, oils, and sophisticated styles of braiding and pleating to enhance their appeal (to male dwarves, at least). To prevent confusion, I remind my fellow that they tend to be rather, um, muscular and robust in certain regards which make them unmistakably female.
A simple multi-canon solution is to pretend that female dwarves might or might not appear bearded ... perhaps it varies by clan, perhaps they might even choose to shave. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 28 Oct 2013 : 20:35:12
quote:
Originally posted by Sluban
So why they didn't exclude female half-orcs and write "half-orcs can't be female"?
You're asking the wrong crowd. All I can offer is supposition. |
| Sluban |
Posted - 28 Oct 2013 : 19:16:38
So why they didn't exclude female half-orcs and write "half-orcs can't be female"? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 28 Oct 2013 : 19:00:57
quote:
Originally posted by Sluban
So if they have ability to grow beards why in games like Neverwinter Online you can't give beard to female dwarf character? I remember that there was even description that "female dwarfs can't have facial hair" or something like that.
Lurue only knows. Maybe the designers were going with human norms for attractiveness, and thus excluded bearded females. |
| Sluban |
Posted - 28 Oct 2013 : 17:43:06
So if they have ability to grow beards why in games like Neverwinter Online you can't give beard to female dwarf character? I remember that there was even description that "female dwarfs can't have facial hair" or something like that. |
| Brian R. James |
Posted - 28 Oct 2013 : 17:39:52
Apparently this question is also on the minds of the EverQuest Next development team. They even discuss the issue in a video. https://forums.station.sony.com/everquestnext/index.php?threads/should-female-dwarves-have-beards-or-not.6/
My favorite quote, from the lead producer, sums up my feelings on the matter: "Obviously female dwarves have beards. It shouldn't even have been up for discussion." |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 28 Oct 2013 : 14:30:15
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Well you run into the bug of that new canon replaces any prior print. It though clearly might be useful to indicate that which -4E Forgotten Realms Player's Guide- indicates for the Realms. Adding maybe some reference to prior editions.
The newer lore just states that few dwarven females sport beards. It doesn't state that they don't have to shave. It doesn't state that they don't use some kind of alchemical concoction to stop their beards from growing. It may have just become popular amongst dwarven males that their females not have a beard and/or other masses of body hair. Maybe all the displaced Halfling females were stealing their men. Maybe there was an upsurge of dwarf men and the adventurous gnomish females (nothing says these interactions needed to last... just if it led their man to cheat). Maybe one dwarf female started shaving and she was drawing the eyes of every male dwarf in a community so others started copying her. Maybe some a-hole dwarves decided to "shame" some dwarf female who stood up against them by raping and shaving her, and in an act of community healing every other dwarf female shaved themselves and it became a trend. |
| SirUrza |
Posted - 28 Oct 2013 : 13:16:57
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
13 replies on dwarven ladies' beards and still no mention of Haela Brightaxe?
The bearded folk aren't my specialty. :) |
| TBeholder |
Posted - 28 Oct 2013 : 13:08:29
13 replies on dwarven ladies' beards and still no mention of Haela Brightaxe? |
