| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 19 Apr 2011 : 18:54:18
So I'm running a campaign set in Westgate (pre-4e) and also writing a novel set in Westgate (post-4e), and this question came up:
What became of the Argraal and Flying Fangs of the Night King, which were the items Orbakh/Orlak II/Manshoon "inherited" upon taking over the Night Masks?
They're described at length in C&D page 50-52, then mentioned again in Lords of Darkness p 40, where they're discussed in the past tense. It says on p 42 that one of the Dukes was "the last victim to fall beneath the Night King's Flying Fangs before that magic weapon was destroyed."
What I can't for the life of me find is a clear reference to what became of the items--how and when they were destroyed, whether the argraal still exists, etc., etc.
Note that this is me asking for canonical realsmlore only. If you'd like to share a speculation with me, please mark it as such. If anyone has a reference to share, I would be very much in your debt.
Cheers |
| 16 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Eilserus |
Posted - 03 Nov 2013 : 23:01:56
The Westgate backdrop was great! I only wish wizards would have included one of those new beautiful maps, much like the Suzail and Daggerdale backdrops. Then again I'm a map-aholic. hehehe |
| hashimashadoo |
Posted - 02 Nov 2013 : 17:59:26
I don't have a subscription these days or I would have already read it. |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 02 Nov 2013 : 17:02:59
Manshoon and his vampiric servants are addressed in my Westgate article in October's Dragon. I highly suggest checking it out. 
Cheers |
| hashimashadoo |
Posted - 02 Nov 2013 : 16:31:20
I'm fairly sure there's no canon mention of either the argraal or the biting blade after Lords of Darkness was published. Mysteries of Westgate is about a cursed domino mask and doesn't mention either of the others. Interestingly though, Manshoon's 4e incarnation, although not noted as possessing either artifact, is served by a group of vampire lords, who help him run the Zhentarim. There are a variety of arguments that could be made about why or how this is the case but the compulsions of the flying fangs is one of them. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 01 Nov 2013 : 15:52:53
Also, neither 'death' nor 'destruction' means anything in D&D - both can easily be reversed.
Not something I like about the setting(s), but something that is true.
I guess what I am saying is, just because an artifact is destroyed, doesn't mean it can't come back anyway - artifacts are notoriously hard to destroy for good.
I cite both the Crystal Shard and the Crown of Horns as examples of 'restored' artifacts. Thus, if you want The Flying Fangs in your game or novel, you can have them. |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 01 Nov 2013 : 15:27:21
Not exactly, but I won't deny the relevance. I go to Candlekeep for lore all the time.
Cheers |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 01 Nov 2013 : 15:18:12
I havent got DDI, but i wonder if this was the beginnings of Erik's Westgate article that was published in the last dragon magazine (428 or something). |
| Icelander |
Posted - 12 Nov 2011 : 15:33:36
Very good question.
Orbakh/Orlak II appears in my campaign and I did a double take at that line too. I cannot tell you how and why these items were destroyed, but I can say with reasonable certainty that if it did not happen in a computer game, it most likely happened off-screen.
I found no 2e or 3e source that had anything more than the LoD reference. |
| Arioch |
Posted - 26 Apr 2011 : 10:26:19
In my last campaign, as a way to destroy the vampiric Manshoon, one of my PGs (Maister Evans, the mage-thief) travelled in the past (just before the clones activation), stole and hid the items to prevent Manshoon, once awakened as a vampire, to use them. He also substituted the original objects with magical copies, capable of replicating some of the lesser powers of the originals (I do not remember exactly why the player chooses to act this way [:-)] ).
When Evans returned to his own time, the vampiric infestation of Westgate was no more, as the church of Torm/Tyr (again, I do not reemember exactly which church was installed in the city at the time with this task in the agenda) was able to handle ut with less problems.
Evans then retrieved the items from their hiding place and departed for Sigil (too many enemies were on his trails). He planned to sell the artifacts to some planar merchant there... (an incredibly intelligent mage, but not sage at all!!)
I know this is absolutely non-canon but I think that in a discussion everything can help in the end  |
| Quale |
Posted - 21 Apr 2011 : 12:02:05
It's a waste to destroy such an artifact, Orbakh can't even cast Mordy's Disjunction |
| The Sage |
Posted - 20 Apr 2011 : 16:19:18
Hmmm. I'll admit, you've piqued my curiosity with the fate of the Argraal now, friend Erik.
Time to peruse my older books.  |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 20 Apr 2011 : 15:18:48
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
 Sounds like you are up to something Evil Erik!
Aren't I always?
Anything, sages?
Cheers |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 20 Apr 2011 : 03:51:39
Sounds like you are up to something Evil Erik! |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 19 Apr 2011 : 20:34:32
Hoondatha, that's exactly what I suspect happened. I'm just hoping for a canonical explanation somehow, so I don't get it wrong. (Particularly if I mention it in the book.)
Lirdolin, that explanation is rather compelling to me, and sounds very Manshoonish. Unless we find an actual textual reference, I'll probably do something like that. Though keep in mind that destroying an artifact isn't always as easy as you'd hope--and a "destroyed" artifact isn't always as destroyed as it seems.
Cheers |
| Lirdolin |
Posted - 19 Apr 2011 : 20:01:38
Will look into this matter, but maybe someone who plays Neverwinter Nights might know if this happend in NWN2: Mysteries of Westgate where the player fight the Nightmasks and Manshoon /Night King?
After having read pg 40 of Lords of Darkness, it could be speculated, that after his research showed Manshoon that the artifacts were affecting his mind, he might have destroyed them himself. The text mentions that he didn't destroy the vampires he already created, because they were usefull minions. sounds to me that he wasn't happy with the artifacts and himself being forced to create vampires. |
| Hoondatha |
Posted - 19 Apr 2011 : 19:57:29
This is pure speculation, but iirc LoD is one of the earlier, 3.0 FR products. There are some cases of things or people (Sarya's son being the one that comes instantly to mind) that got removed simply because the then-new 3e system hadn't developed enough to support it. Sarya's son, for instance, was a psionicist in 2e, but the Dlargrageths' first appearance in 3e was before the 3e psionics handbook was published. Rather than convert him to something else, or hold off until psionics had been statted out, he was killed off-camera.
I'm afb right now, and can't check, but I think that happened in LoD. Maybe something similar happened with the Flying Fangs: there was something about them that couldn't get easily translated into 3e mechanics, so they were just written out.
Not much help, and a little depressing, but it's the best I've got for the moment. I'll do some more checking once I get home. |
