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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Apr 2011 : 18:54:18
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So I'm running a campaign set in Westgate (pre-4e) and also writing a novel set in Westgate (post-4e), and this question came up:
What became of the Argraal and Flying Fangs of the Night King, which were the items Orbakh/Orlak II/Manshoon "inherited" upon taking over the Night Masks?
They're described at length in C&D page 50-52, then mentioned again in Lords of Darkness p 40, where they're discussed in the past tense. It says on p 42 that one of the Dukes was "the last victim to fall beneath the Night King's Flying Fangs before that magic weapon was destroyed."
What I can't for the life of me find is a clear reference to what became of the items--how and when they were destroyed, whether the argraal still exists, etc., etc.
Note that this is me asking for canonical realsmlore only. If you'd like to share a speculation with me, please mark it as such. If anyone has a reference to share, I would be very much in your debt.
Cheers
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2011 : 19:57:29
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This is pure speculation, but iirc LoD is one of the earlier, 3.0 FR products. There are some cases of things or people (Sarya's son being the one that comes instantly to mind) that got removed simply because the then-new 3e system hadn't developed enough to support it. Sarya's son, for instance, was a psionicist in 2e, but the Dlargrageths' first appearance in 3e was before the 3e psionics handbook was published. Rather than convert him to something else, or hold off until psionics had been statted out, he was killed off-camera.
I'm afb right now, and can't check, but I think that happened in LoD. Maybe something similar happened with the Flying Fangs: there was something about them that couldn't get easily translated into 3e mechanics, so they were just written out.
Not much help, and a little depressing, but it's the best I've got for the moment. I'll do some more checking once I get home. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Lirdolin
Learned Scribe
Germany
198 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2011 : 20:01:38
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Will look into this matter, but maybe someone who plays Neverwinter Nights might know if this happend in NWN2: Mysteries of Westgate where the player fight the Nightmasks and Manshoon /Night King?
After having read pg 40 of Lords of Darkness, it could be speculated, that after his research showed Manshoon that the artifacts were affecting his mind, he might have destroyed them himself. The text mentions that he didn't destroy the vampires he already created, because they were usefull minions. sounds to me that he wasn't happy with the artifacts and himself being forced to create vampires. |
Edited by - Lirdolin on 19 Apr 2011 20:15:27 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2011 : 20:34:32
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Hoondatha, that's exactly what I suspect happened. I'm just hoping for a canonical explanation somehow, so I don't get it wrong. (Particularly if I mention it in the book.)
Lirdolin, that explanation is rather compelling to me, and sounds very Manshoonish. Unless we find an actual textual reference, I'll probably do something like that. Though keep in mind that destroying an artifact isn't always as easy as you'd hope--and a "destroyed" artifact isn't always as destroyed as it seems.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2011 : 03:51:39
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 Sounds like you are up to something Evil Erik! |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2011 : 15:18:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Sounds like you are up to something Evil Erik!
Aren't I always?
Anything, sages? 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2011 : 12:02:05
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| It's a waste to destroy such an artifact, Orbakh can't even cast Mordy's Disjunction |
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Arioch
Learned Scribe
Italy
222 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2011 : 10:26:19
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In my last campaign, as a way to destroy the vampiric Manshoon, one of my PGs (Maister Evans, the mage-thief) travelled in the past (just before the clones activation), stole and hid the items to prevent Manshoon, once awakened as a vampire, to use them. He also substituted the original objects with magical copies, capable of replicating some of the lesser powers of the originals (I do not remember exactly why the player chooses to act this way [:-)] ).
When Evans returned to his own time, the vampiric infestation of Westgate was no more, as the church of Torm/Tyr (again, I do not reemember exactly which church was installed in the city at the time with this task in the agenda) was able to handle ut with less problems.
Evans then retrieved the items from their hiding place and departed for Sigil (too many enemies were on his trails). He planned to sell the artifacts to some planar merchant there... (an incredibly intelligent mage, but not sage at all!!)
I know this is absolutely non-canon but I think that in a discussion everything can help in the end  |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2011 : 15:33:36
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Very good question.
Orbakh/Orlak II appears in my campaign and I did a double take at that line too. I cannot tell you how and why these items were destroyed, but I can say with reasonable certainty that if it did not happen in a computer game, it most likely happened off-screen.
I found no 2e or 3e source that had anything more than the LoD reference. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2013 : 15:27:21
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Not exactly, but I won't deny the relevance. I go to Candlekeep for lore all the time.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2013 : 15:52:53
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Also, neither 'death' nor 'destruction' means anything in D&D - both can easily be reversed.
Not something I like about the setting(s), but something that is true.
I guess what I am saying is, just because an artifact is destroyed, doesn't mean it can't come back anyway - artifacts are notoriously hard to destroy for good.
I cite both the Crystal Shard and the Crown of Horns as examples of 'restored' artifacts. Thus, if you want The Flying Fangs in your game or novel, you can have them. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 01 Nov 2013 15:53:32 |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1152 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2013 : 16:31:20
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| I'm fairly sure there's no canon mention of either the argraal or the biting blade after Lords of Darkness was published. Mysteries of Westgate is about a cursed domino mask and doesn't mention either of the others. Interestingly though, Manshoon's 4e incarnation, although not noted as possessing either artifact, is served by a group of vampire lords, who help him run the Zhentarim. There are a variety of arguments that could be made about why or how this is the case but the compulsions of the flying fangs is one of them. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2013 : 17:02:59
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Manshoon and his vampiric servants are addressed in my Westgate article in October's Dragon. I highly suggest checking it out.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1152 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2013 : 17:59:26
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| I don't have a subscription these days or I would have already read it. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2013 : 23:01:56
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| The Westgate backdrop was great! I only wish wizards would have included one of those new beautiful maps, much like the Suzail and Daggerdale backdrops. Then again I'm a map-aholic. hehehe |
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Night Masks lore: Regalia of the Night King
