| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Razz |
Posted - 25 Oct 2008 : 17:20:38
Hello sages, I was wondering if you can direct me to the sources where information on the nation of Turmish is given. I've always been interested in this nation and felt that it was going somewhere in 3E (and hoped for a Vilhon Reach regional book one day...alas) but information on it has ceased.
Thanks if you can provide me information on it. I know the FRCG 3E and Races of Faerun offers some info. Champions of Valor has, also. Anything else would be appreciated. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Wendolyn |
Posted - 09 Mar 2021 : 11:57:41
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Sorry for the resurrection of the scroll.
I was re-reading Jewel of Turmish this week and it struck me that the Turmish described by Akabar Bal Akash in The Finder's Stone is really not what we get in the Jewel of Turmish novel. I asked Ed on Twitter and he says that it is because Turmish is a big country and has various sub-cultures.
My own suspicion is that Jewel of Turmish was written about the Emeral Enclave first (something Akabar never mentioned once despite it being a prominent feature of Turmish culture IMHO) and without any reference to the trading culture where men have many wives (something with more of a Middle-Eastern, Northern African flair?).
There is the possibility that Akabar bel Akash and his family are actually of Calishite origin (which would explain the "many wives" thing) and that he is part of an ethnic minority in that realm. Something that is very common IRL.
-- George Krashos
After doing my own research on Turmish, I am also inclined to agree that Akabar bel Akash and his family is probably not originally from Turmish. First there is the name, which sounds more Calishite than Turmishan. Second, polygamy is not really a Turmishan custom (save for religious groups that worship Chaunteau, and these include two wives and two husbands). Also there are the dots on the forehead that Akabar has. While this custom has been repeated in a few sourcebooks, it is very inconsistently applied. It is 1) never mentioned in the Jewel of Turmish or the Reaver, 2) it is never depicted on any art of any Turmishans and 3) the custom does not even originate in Turmish, but rather in the Academia Vilhonius in Chondath. So the dots on the head practice is Chondathan, not Turmishan, which suggests even further that Akabar's family is not native to Turmish. Possibly Akabar lives on the northern coast of the Vilhon Reach which, technically part of the Turmish mainland, is on the other side of the Aphrunn mountains and is likely more heavily influenced by the cultures of the Lake of Steam, Chondath, and Calimshan. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 14 Sep 2020 : 02:14:39
Senior Scribe AJA,
I figured I would put it out there and check about that very issue.
I appreciate you mentioning that before I did so: thank you!
Best regards,
|
| AJA |
Posted - 14 Sep 2020 : 00:59:56
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Master Rupert,
I did in fact find 170 or so of the Polyhedron magazines in pdf. Would you like me to share them?
Polyhedron is a published work just like DRAGON, cpthero2 
quote:
Originally posted by AJA
cpthero2, posting snippets or excerpts of published works is commonly allowed at the 'Keep, but posting links to pirated material (under which category full issues of DRAGON magazine fall) is very much not.
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Senior Scribe AJA,
I appreciate you mentioning that to me: thank you.
I went and refreshed on the Code of Conduct. I overlooked item 13 (or didn't remember it). I'll edit that post.
Thanks!
|
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 13 Sep 2020 : 23:50:44
Great Reader Dallison,
You are correct about your overall assertion that it was not a unified population. The Turami for example originally came from the Alamber Sea region when they were refugee's from the fall of Imaskar. They ultimately ended up founding what is now Turmish in -37 DR, a couple hundred years after the elven High Mages of Nikerymath brought about the tsunami that destroyed the Twelve Cities of the Sword in what is now the Vilhon Reach. What is now Turmish was the norther province of Jhaamdath, called the Granite Grates. It was heavily fortified before the tsunami, and largely survived with the Turami people fleeing to the mountains, and coming back afterwards.
That is just one of many ethnicities of humans that ended up coming to that area, a part of then Jhaamdath. Even before Jhaamdath (which came about in roughly -5800 DR) was Coramshan, a predecessor country before Calimshan. There have been people migrating all around that very large expanse of the Realms between then Coramshan and Jhaamdath for millennia. Pretty cool history I think. :)
Best regards,
|
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 13 Sep 2020 : 23:15:37
Master Rupert,
I did in fact find 170 or so of the Polyhedron magazines in pdf. Would you like me to share them?
Best regards,
|
| Icelander |
Posted - 25 Jul 2020 : 15:20:38
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Sorry for the resurrection of the scroll.
I was re-reading Jewel of Turmish this week and it struck me that the Turmish described by Akabar Bal Akash in The Finder's Stone is really not what we get in the Jewel of Turmish novel. I asked Ed on Twitter and he says that it is because Turmish is a big country and has various sub-cultures.
My own suspicion is that Jewel of Turmish was written about the Emeral Enclave first (something Akabar never mentioned once despite it being a prominent feature of Turmish culture IMHO) and without any reference to the trading culture where men have many wives (something with more of a Middle-Eastern, Northern African flair?).
There is the possibility that Akabar bel Akash and his family are actually of Calishite origin (which would explain the "many wives" thing) and that he is part of an ethnic minority in that realm. Something that is very common IRL.
-- George Krashos
That's possible. Another possibility is that Untheri names and customs might have remained in some places around the Vilhon Reach, considering that th original Turami were displaced by them (and that significant minorities in Mulhorand, Unther and Chessenta are still of Turami descent) and that Unther ruled provinces and colonies that stretched at least to Reth, if not further. |
| neutrondecay |
Posted - 11 Jun 2020 : 15:59:41
I have recently been trying to resolve this myself, and my answers are as follows:
1) There has been a long history of Calishite migration to Turmish, especially before Calimsham was reunified under the Djenispool dynasty. Most Turmishmen of Calishite heritage are well-integrated, see themselves as Turmish first and foremost, and may not even remember when their ancestors arrived from Calimshan.
2) Polygamy is a widespread cultural norm throughout the area around the Shining Sea, and less so going north - but the Vilhon Reach area more so than the coast. Tethyr has long sought to differentiate itself from Calimshan, and this is generally, though not universally, a way in which this is done.
nd |
| Seravin |
Posted - 10 Jun 2020 : 23:44:03
Obviously today's world has hugely multi-cultural countries and societies; but the Realms outside of perhaps Waterdeep seem a lot more mono-cultural (at least among the individual races) in most of the countries. It just strikes me as quite odd that the Akabar Bel Akash version of Turmish, and he is quite a proud Turmite, never mentioning Calimsham once if that is the case of his origin, is never brought up once in the Jewel of Turmish book. I read one throw away line about a merchant with a square beard at the docks. I suppose Akabar's version with earings to mark who is learned or can cast spells and has multiple wives is a sub-culture in a secluded portion of Turmish outside of Alaghon--then both versions fit; but it really does seem more like a continuity error than a deliberate thing.
Jewel of Turmish was published in 2002, long after Jeff Grubb had parted ways. It reads more like Mel Odom wanted a book about the Emerald Enclave (in the Cities series of all things) and any old Turmish references from the Finder's Stone were ignored.
|
| TBeholder |
Posted - 10 Jun 2020 : 22:19:05
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
It was always just odd to me how different Turmish is from what Akabar described it as in Finder's Stone trilogy (exotic trading obsessed culture) compared to Jewel of Turmish (which is very generic wilderness and Alaghon a generic medieval port city).
Different interests, different perspectives?
I mean, one of them is a mage-merchant who mostly thinks of caravan stops and bazaars,
the other is concerned with wilderness and matters of grander scale - like random murder of lumberjacks, or being as elf-friendly as possible, or "oops, we are ears deep in dead guys and surprisingly the only strong church around consists of druids who cannot turn". 
quote:
I wondered which is more Ed's vision for the land, and it appears both are. Which strikes me as odd. Given Jeff Grubb co-wrote the OGB, I'm going to go with Akabar's version in my head canon.
Vilhon Reach sourcebook kind of fits both. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 10 Jun 2020 : 12:26:11
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Sorry for the resurrection of the scroll.
I was re-reading Jewel of Turmish this week and it struck me that the Turmish described by Akabar Bal Akash in The Finder's Stone is really not what we get in the Jewel of Turmish novel. I asked Ed on Twitter and he says that it is because Turmish is a big country and has various sub-cultures.
My own suspicion is that Jewel of Turmish was written about the Emeral Enclave first (something Akabar never mentioned once despite it being a prominent feature of Turmish culture IMHO) and without any reference to the trading culture where men have many wives (something with more of a Middle-Eastern, Northern African flair?).
There is the possibility that Akabar bel Akash and his family are actually of Calishite origin (which would explain the "many wives" thing) and that he is part of an ethnic minority in that realm. Something that is very common IRL.
-- George Krashos |
| Seravin |
Posted - 09 Jun 2020 : 00:33:44
I read up on the 2nd edition Vilhon Reach sourcebook; great stuff. It doesn't really differentiate between north and south Turmish, but is much more in keeping with the Akabar Bel Akash version:
The people of Turmish are tall, mahogany-skinned, and generally well-educated,
especially in business and agriculture. Custom dictates that the male merchants of
Turmish have square, neatly trimmed beards. This custom has given rise to the phrase
as square as a Turmishan#146;s beard, used to indicate a fair deal throughout the Reach |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 08 Jun 2020 : 21:40:51
From research into jhaamdath and later turmish, I don't think it is one unified population. The northern and southern parts are very different although I don't recall the details right now. |
| Seravin |
Posted - 08 Jun 2020 : 20:16:26
It was always just odd to me how different Turmish is from what Akabar described it as in Finder's Stone trilogy (exotic trading obsessed culture) compared to Jewel of Turmish (which is very generic wilderness and Alaghon a generic medieval port city).
I wondered which is more Ed's vision for the land, and it appears both are. Which strikes me as odd. Given Jeff Grubb co-wrote the OGB, I'm going to go with Akabar's version in my head canon.
|
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 08 Jun 2020 : 18:25:19
The people of Turmish were originally the dominant race from what is now Turmish all across to the east in what is now Chessenta and further east as well.
I have always seen them as originally from further south, and the Durpari as another offshoot.
So, to me, they are more akin to a dark skinned Indian/Persian culture. |
| Seravin |
Posted - 08 Jun 2020 : 13:13:26
Sorry for the resurrection of the scroll.
I was re-reading Jewel of Turmish this week and it struck me that the Turmish described by Akabar Bal Akash in The Finder's Stone is really not what we get in the Jewel of Turmish novel. I asked Ed on Twitter and he says that it is because Turmish is a big country and has various sub-cultures.
My own suspicion is that Jewel of Turmish was written about the Emeral Enclave first (something Akabar never mentioned once despite it being a prominent feature of Turmish culture IMHO) and without any reference to the trading culture where men have many wives (something with more of a Middle-Eastern, Northern African flair?).
|
| George Krashos |
Posted - 23 Jun 2015 : 00:26:10
The best basic primer is Races of Faerun. It provides a broad overview of who lives where and some historical background.
You can then drill down from that source.
-- George Krashos |
| Caladan Brood |
Posted - 22 Jun 2015 : 18:41:02
Thank you for the excellent input. There are so many places to explore in the Realms. I've "been" in the North for a while but now I've set my sights on the south (of the Sea of Fallen Stars). There's always something to learn. With all the sources spread across editions, magazines, game etc it is in fact overwhelming. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 22 Jun 2015 : 16:42:10
Turmish is mostly mountains - it has very little forest (within its borders) and from what I gather the interior is more of a 'scrub plains' type of environment, so perhaps something akin to Australia (with the majority of folks living along the coast), with only a few inland settlements along trade routes or in the few fertile regions.
Perhaps even like the American midwest - farming is possible but its not exactly ideal.
So no desert, but they have their own problems - they are insular and yet have a trade-based economy. I figure because other then the traders themselves, Turmish doesn't have a whole lot to offer that isn't available cheaper elsewhere. You would think they have mineral wealth, but the surface of the mountains is swarming with large, organized orc clans and the underdark beneath them has at least two dark dwarven settlements. This leaves them with the coast and the inhospitable interior to build their economy upon.
So trade up the Vilhon Reach from the waterways (the new canal and also the old Tethyr Road) is their primary source of income, and they probably trade for most of their consumables (the lands directly to the south are rich and fertile). *I think* the winds in that region tend to blow South, AWAY from Turmish (so little moisture) and toward the Old Empires/Chondath. So yeah, not a desert, but still fairly arid compared to other nations around the Inner Sea.
EDIT: Sembia, for its part (in my RW comparison) is a lot like Spain during the period when there were several Moorish kingdoms there (see my favorite movie of all time, El Cid). So you get a wee bit of that 'Middle Eastern' vibe there as well, but only in styles and perhaps architecture 'borrowed' from Turmish and other southern nations. Whereas Sembia (and Cormyr and perhaps even Impiltur) is known for its patrols and trading on the Sea of Fallen Stars, I think Turmish may dominate most of the southern routes, at least up to the Alamber sea, and therefor isn't as 'in your face' (well known) as the others amongst the Heartlands nations and peoples. Thus, Turmish is actually on par (and perhaps 'friendly rivals) with Sembia in regards to commerce, but its subtler and therefor less notorious.
Just MY OWN TAKE, BTW. We don't have a lot of canon on either of them, but from doing the maps I get a 'feel' for what a place is like. Certain types of terrain tend toward certain types of cultures. |
| Rymac |
Posted - 20 Jun 2015 : 17:18:18
quote:
Originally posted by Caladan Brood
But Morocco is mostly desert (don't magic missile me if I'm wrong) while Turmish is lush and fertile right?
Along the Atlantic and Mediterranean coast inland to the mountains, no. On the other side of the Atlas mountains, yes. |
| Caladan Brood |
Posted - 20 Jun 2015 : 11:43:45
But Morocco is mostly desert (don't magic missile me if I'm wrong) while Turmish is lush and fertile right? |
| Rymac |
Posted - 20 Jun 2015 : 05:05:32
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Morocco might be closer, both ethnically and culturally. There was a Turmish Mage pictured on some 3e (magic) supplement, but I forget which.*
The dynamic between RW Morocco and Spain is very similar to Turmish and Sembia.
*EDIT: Complete Arcane
I get that. Basically, something akin to a berber ethnicity. However, I remember, at least from the OGB, that the Turmish have a rich mahogany skin tone. That with the architecture described made me think of the Indian people. I always fixated on the tall Indian henchman (wielding a circular saw blade thingy) in the Octopus-- James Bond movie. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 20 Jun 2015 : 04:17:31
Morocco might be closer, both ethnically and culturally. There was a Turmish Mage pictured on some 3e (magic) supplement, but I forget which.*
The dynamic between RW Morocco and Spain is very similar to Turmish and Sembia.
*EDIT: Complete Arcane |
| Rymac |
Posted - 19 Jun 2015 : 22:33:41
quote:
Originally posted by Caladan Brood
*necro*
I've read The Vilhon Reach but I'm still not sure how to envision Turmish in terms of architecture, clothing, culture - is there any real-world comparison? Am I to think "Turkish"?
Although I hesitate to apply real-world analogues to things in the Realms, I've equated the Turmish to be have a middle-eastern to near-Asian quality not unlike the peoples of India. That's how I've pictured the architecture and art in the Turmish culture. |
| Caladan Brood |
Posted - 19 Jun 2015 : 21:48:51
*necro*
I've read The Vilhon Reach but I'm still not sure how to envision Turmish in terms of architecture, clothing, culture - is there any real-world comparison? Am I to think "Turkish"? |
| Razz |
Posted - 30 Oct 2008 : 01:31:05
Thanks everyone.
Yeah I actually did find a set of PDFs a long time back of Polyhedrons. Not all of them, but a decent chunk. I can't remember where I got them anymore, unfortunately.  |
| The Sage |
Posted - 29 Oct 2008 : 22:43:45
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I do not know of any electronic versions of Polyhedron -- legal or illegal. I do really wish, though, that they were available as pdfs -- the few Polyhedrons I own have some good material in them, and it's a shame that such good stuff is not more widely available.
You'll find plenty of the printed editions at paizo.com and nobleknight.com.
**The Sage looks fondly at his own near-complete collection of POLHEDRON Magazines** |
| ShadezofDis |
Posted - 29 Oct 2008 : 20:41:07
I actually managed to find those Polyhedrons and they're pretty decent. Mostly articles of locations with possible treasures, not terribly detailed (ie. not a lot of detail about the towns the locations are rumored to be in) but it's still some good stuff.
I've actually been running a game in Turmish for a good year and a half now but my notes are pretty much a mess but if you have some specific questions I can give you the answers that I made up. Clearly not official but if there are things you don't want to make up I probably have some notes about just about anything you might want to know. Just might take a few days to find the particular notes.  |
| Brian R. James |
Posted - 29 Oct 2008 : 19:11:07
Erik Boyd got his start writing for Polyhedron. There is some excelent Realmslore hidden within those pages. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 29 Oct 2008 : 18:59:57
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Weren't there some on the Dragon Archive put out a couple of years ago on CD-ROM?
The Dragon Magazine Archive CD-ROM contains issues 1-250 of Dragon, and 7 issues (I assume that's all of them) of The Strategic Review.
I do not know of any electronic versions of Polyhedron -- legal or illegal. I do really wish, though, that they were available as pdfs -- the few Polyhedrons I own have some good material in them, and it's a shame that such good stuff is not more widely available. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 29 Oct 2008 : 18:44:26
Weren't there some on the Dragon Archive put out a couple of years ago on CD-ROM? |
