| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 24 Sep 2008 : 17:09:03
Kind of an odd question here, but what if any deities of the Realms can be seen as goddesses of motherhood and family?
Just wondering because of a background detail for one character: his grandmother was a priestess of Chauntea from Mistledale, born about 1300 DR (this is pre-Spellplague Realms), who went questing for knowledge of healing and protecting children from illness about the time of the Great Plague of the Inner Sea. She traveled to visit various other clergies of 'mother goddesses' to collect whatever knowledge they had that could help.
Her knowledge did help end the Plague, at least in my version of the Realms, and she promised to return some of the items/relics she got from the other clergies. Unfortunately she doesn't get a chance to do so before she dies -- at which point her grandson has to take care of it.
So who would she likely have dealt with, and where are their main temples found? Shiallia's in the High Forest and Hathor is in that valley in Mulhorand, but who else? I'm pretty sure that both Berronar and Luthic would count, but I'm unsure as to any of the others.
Thanks for any help. |
| 23 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 28 Sep 2008 : 01:19:11
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
Odd, as I thought that Ghaunadar was the real name of the EEG from back in that Fire Giants adventure where we first met it (and the drow). Heck, when I first read Drow of the Underdark, my thought was, "So that's who Eclavdra was worshipping..."
Ghaunadaur [as the Elder Elemental God] was first referenced by Gary Gygax in G3 Hall of the Fire Giant King. Ed first referenced him as Ghaunadaur in FOR2 The Drow of the Underdark.
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| Christopher_Rowe |
Posted - 27 Sep 2008 : 19:29:26
We're drifting pretty far from motherhood when we talk about Ghaunadar (at least the kind of motherhood I believe the OP was asking about  ), but, by the late 15th Century DR, Ghanuadaur is a greater god and master of a domain in the Astral Sea called the Dismal Caverns.
He reacted to Lolth's "arrangement" to have his previous drow worshippers forget him by becoming even more powerful, and now he's the patron of oozes, slimes, and abominations--he is particularly said to be revered by the masters of the Abolethic Sovereignty.
And to take us even further off topic, I think it's interesting to note that only three of the dominions of the Astral Sea are "single occupancy" in terms of deific powers: the Dismal Caverns of Ghanuadaur, the Supreme Throne of Cyric, and the Demonweb Pits of, well, I bet you know that one.  |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 27 Sep 2008 : 19:01:16
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Some examples...
From Demihuman Deities:- "Although Ghaunadaur is a distinct entity unrelated to the tanar'ri lord Juiblex, the Faceless Lord, or the otherwise unnamed Elder Elemental God neither of the latter two powers is active in the Realms, and Ghaunadaur has assumed both of their aspects within the crystal sphere of Realmspace."
Read the claim about the Elder Elemental God in light of the fact that much of Ghaunadaur's writeup is taken directly from descriptions of the EEG, which is itself distinct from Juiblex.
Odd, as I thought that Ghaunadar was the real name of the EEG from back in that Fire Giants adventure where we first met it (and the drow). Heck, when I first read Drow of the Underdark, my thought was, "So that's who Eclavdra was worshipping..." |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 27 Sep 2008 : 18:59:25
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
The quintessential mother goddess is Luthic.
If Luthic is a Mother Goddess, then she's one mean mother. 
But thanks for posting that, as I agreed on her status as a mother deity (and in terms of my specific argument, one who's clergy would have an interest in any knowledge that kept sickness away from the children they were nurturing). |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 27 Sep 2008 : 14:06:15
The quintessential mother goddess is Luthic.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 27 Sep 2008 : 00:57:06
quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
Our beloved gray box said that the Earthmother "may or may not be an aspect of Chauntea" (Cyclopedia of the Realms, p. 17).
Chauntea's entry in Faiths & Avatars built on that, by suggesting that Earthmother was a more primitive aspect, a portion of Chauntea's essence, that was dedicated to directly overseeing the Moonshaes.
But with Brian's work in the aforementioned "Moonshae" article, as it stands now, Earthmother and Chauntea are largely separate entities once again. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 27 Sep 2008 : 00:53:24
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
OT, but haven't there been recorded examples of already-known deities allowing themselves to be worshipped in different -- sometimes very different -- identities in local areas for whatever reason? There's Set as Sseth amongthe Sarrukh, and I remember Talona being worshipped as a naga deity by another name, Ssthasine or something.
Yes.
Some examples...
From Demihuman Deities:- "Although Ghaunadaur is a distinct entity unrelated to the tanar'ri lord Juiblex, the Faceless Lord, or the otherwise unnamed Elder Elemental God neither of the latter two powers is active in the Realms, and Ghaunadaur has assumed both of their aspects within the crystal sphere of Realmspace."
Read the claim about the Elder Elemental God in light of the fact that much of Ghaunadaur's writeup is taken directly from descriptions of the EEG, which is itself distinct from Juiblex.
Juiblex is a Demon Lord in the D&D core rules. In the Realms, he had some worshipers in 2e's Thay IIRC. When Demihuman Deities, and the other god books, were being worked on there was some desire to tidy up some of the gods, thus Juiblex became an aspect of Ghaunadaur in the Realms. Similar things happened to the 2e god of liches in Monster Mythology becoming an aspect of Velsharoon and Sseth garnering many different aspects.
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| Fillow |
Posted - 26 Sep 2008 : 20:55:35
reminder : Discussing the fact that Earthmother is totally, partly or not Chauntea may be out-of-topic and has already been started : here |
| Christopher_Rowe |
Posted - 26 Sep 2008 : 20:06:37
Our beloved gray box said that the Earthmother "may or may not be an aspect of Chauntea" (Cyclopedia of the Realms, p. 17). |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 26 Sep 2008 : 17:13:53
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Earthmother was a completely separate deity from that of Chauntea, that is, until TSR cast a "mighty retcon" upon the six 'Moonshae' novels.
You have to take this into consideration, otherwise parts of the plot from the novels doesn't make as much sense without it -- mostly because Earthmother dies and Chauntea then assumes her position until Earthmother returns and forces Chauntea out from the druids that focused instead on Chauntea worship.
Wow, really? I'm honestly surprised.  I could swear that we were told that Earthmother was another name for Chauntea from the start.
OT, but haven't there been recorded examples of already-known deities allowing themselves to be worshipped in different -- sometimes very different -- identities in local areas for whatever reason? There's Set as Sseth amongthe Sarrukh, and I remember Talona being worshipped as a naga deity by another name, Ssthasine or something. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 26 Sep 2008 : 15:29:06
quote:
Originally posted by Na-Gang
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'll note, also, that Brian James was never actually happy with that retcon, which is why he didn't acknowledge it in his "Moonshae" article. In fact, he hinted pretty strongly that Earthmother may indeed be a fey goddess.
ooooooo! I wasn't aware of this. Was Brian's article published here at candlekeep, wizards.com, or in a previous (paper) edition of Dragon?
'Twas published in #362 of DRAGON, on the Wizards site. See here:- http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20080110 |
| Na-Gang |
Posted - 26 Sep 2008 : 09:09:05
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'll note, also, that Brian James was never actually happy with that retcon, which is why he didn't acknowledge it in his "Moonshae" article. In fact, he hinted pretty strongly that Earthmother may indeed be a fey goddess.
ooooooo! I wasn't aware of this. Was Brian's article published here at candlekeep, wizards.com, or in a previous (paper) edition of Dragon? |
| Arion Elenim |
Posted - 26 Sep 2008 : 06:51:50
Wow, and here I was thinking Angelina Jolie was the goddess of motherhood. *shuffles and hides a stack of tabloids from his desk*
 |
| Fillow |
Posted - 26 Sep 2008 : 05:11:34
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Earthmother was a completely separate deity from that of Chauntea, that is, until TSR cast a "mighty retcon" upon the six 'Moonshae' novels.
You have to take this into consideration, otherwise parts of the plot from the novels doesn't make as much sense without it -- mostly because Earthmother dies and Chauntea then assumes her position until Earthmother returns and forces Chauntea out from the druids that focused instead on Chauntea worship.
I totally agree.
We already discussed this in another thread about Moonwells : here |
| The Sage |
Posted - 26 Sep 2008 : 01:01:46
I'll note, also, that Brian James was never actually happy with that retcon, which is why he didn't acknowledge it in his "Moonshae" article. In fact, he hinted pretty strongly that Earthmother may indeed be a fey goddess.
By not acknowledging the retcon, Brian seems to have re-established the singular Earthmother as a divine entity unto herself with regard to the Moonshaes.
I've speculated that perhaps this fey Earthmother is merely "a partial aspect of the Land" [the Moonshaes] with respect to Chauntea's overall placement as THE land overall.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 26 Sep 2008 : 01:00:04
Earthmother was a completely separate deity from that of Chauntea, that is, until TSR cast a "mighty retcon" upon the six 'Moonshae' novels.
You have to take this into consideration, otherwise parts of the plot from the novels doesn't make as much sense without it -- mostly because Earthmother dies and Chauntea then assumes her position until Earthmother returns and forces Chauntea out from the druids that focused instead on Chauntea worship.
|
| Ardashir |
Posted - 26 Sep 2008 : 00:32:47
quote:
Originally posted by Fillow
The first name which came to my mind was Earthmother... but it only works if you live in the Moonshaes of course.
Thanks, but already I listed Chauntea. Earthmother is just the local 'Moonshavian' version of her, or so I recall. |
| Fillow |
Posted - 25 Sep 2008 : 19:50:17
The first name which came to my mind was Earthmother... but it only works if you live in the Moonshaes of course. |
| Ranak |
Posted - 25 Sep 2008 : 19:22:12
Untheric Diety Nana-sin.
quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
Kind of an odd question here, but what if any deities of the Realms can be seen as goddesses of motherhood and family?
Just wondering because of a background detail for one character: his grandmother was a priestess of Chauntea from Mistledale, born about 1300 DR (this is pre-Spellplague Realms), who went questing for knowledge of healing and protecting children from illness about the time of the Great Plague of the Inner Sea. She traveled to visit various other clergies of 'mother goddesses' to collect whatever knowledge they had that could help.
Her knowledge did help end the Plague, at least in my version of the Realms, and she promised to return some of the items/relics she got from the other clergies. Unfortunately she doesn't get a chance to do so before she dies -- at which point her grandson has to take care of it.
So who would she likely have dealt with, and where are their main temples found? Shiallia's in the High Forest and Hathor is in that valley in Mulhorand, but who else? I'm pretty sure that both Berronar and Luthic would count, but I'm unsure as to any of the others.
Thanks for any help.
|
| Shottglazz |
Posted - 25 Sep 2008 : 18:27:24
I'd think that any deity with the "Family" domain might qualify... |
| Ardashir |
Posted - 25 Sep 2008 : 17:35:35
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
Maybe it sounds strange, but you have to consider Lathander - birth is part of his portfolio.
For the elven pantheon we have Angharradh.
A male deity of bith? You are right about that, and it's kind of different too.
Thanks for reminding me (and Lathander sems to be tight with Chauntea anyway). |
| Ayunken-vanzan |
Posted - 24 Sep 2008 : 20:01:54
Maybe it sounds strange, but you have to consider Lathander - birth is part of his portfolio.
For the elven pantheon we have Angharradh. |
| Na-Gang |
Posted - 24 Sep 2008 : 17:55:44
Definitely Yondalla. |
