| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Amon The Pole |
Posted - 04 Dec 2012 : 20:28:42
Hi all
Is it any connection between dragonlance gods and faerun?
Is some of them orginaly move from FR
Are two settings has some gods in common?
I heard that Bane recently become god in other world but I do not remember it was dragonlance or greyhawk
greetings |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 28 Jan 2013 : 01:10:37
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
The most prevalent theory in DL lore, however, is that Astinus is simply a mortal aspect of the God of the Book.
Er, how does this differ from being an avatar?
I imagine that while avatars are all part of a greater entity, they are each independent (and perhaps quirky or imperfect!) "copies" of the deity. To my mind Astinus is just a bookish and nerdy avatar of Gilean who embodies whatever compartmentalized aspect of the god is obsessed with recording history.
I don't really think there is much difference. But I think the "mortal aspect" is key here -- in that, one version [mortal aspect] can be more easily "killed" than the other [full-blown avatar]. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 28 Jan 2013 : 01:09:06
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
That last was always my view on him, too.
Which partly explains why, when the rest of the other gods disappeared during the Summer of Chaos, Astinus vanished as well. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 28 Jan 2013 : 01:02:01
quote:
The most prevalent theory in DL lore, however, is that Astinus is simply a mortal aspect of the God of the Book.
Er, how does this differ from being an avatar?
I imagine that while avatars are all part of a greater entity, they are each independent (and perhaps quirky or imperfect!) "copies" of the deity. To my mind Astinus is just a bookish and nerdy avatar of Gilean who embodies whatever compartmentalized aspect of the god is interested in recording history.
The common assumption is that avatars are formed from "nothing" or perhaps created out of planar stuff from a deity's realm. I think avatars can also be created by "occupying" faithful vessels. Astinus could be the Krynn equivalent of a "Chosen" or "Exarch" or "Proxy". |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 28 Jan 2013 : 00:51:43
That last was always my view on him, too. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 27 Jan 2013 : 02:51:21
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
In the end (age of mortals, Astinus disappeared). Some said it was because he was a god, but that's just some people saying :) - like with Fizban...
It's not just some people saying it. There's reasonable enough suggestive evidence in the DL canon for numerous theories about Astinus being connected to Gilean. Some suggest that he's the God in mortal form. Others suggest some avatar-puppet. While numerous accounts point to Astinus being fostered by Gilean. The most prevalent theory in DL lore, however, is that Astinus is simply a mortal aspect of the God of the Book. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 27 Jan 2013 : 02:35:40
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Was I the only one who thought Alaundo Of Candlekeep and Astinus of Palanthas were quite similar? (Sorry if I spelled em wrong)
There are some basic similarities... but Astinus is a great deal more "prevalently" intimate with the history of his world than Alaundo ever was with that of Toril. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 26 Jan 2013 : 23:57:12
In the end (age of mortals, Astinus disappeared). Some said it was because he was a god, but that's just some people saying :) - like with Fizban...
I thought Alaundo lived a long time too for some reason, like a thousand years, but online says he only lived to like 100. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 26 Jan 2013 : 23:42:38
quote:
The Masked Mage
Was I the only one who thought Alaundo Of Candlekeep and Astinus of Palanthas were quite similar? (Sorry if I spelled em wrong)
Well, one is immortal. Perhaps a god or demigod or avatar of some sort.
The other is dead. Or condemned to serve eternity as a webmaster, which is pretty much the same thing. |
| The Masked Mage |
Posted - 26 Jan 2013 : 23:12:11
Was I the only one who thought Alaundo Of Candlekeep and Astinus of Palanthas were quite similar? (Sorry if I spelled em wrong) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 09 Jan 2013 : 01:06:16
quote:
Originally posted by Entromancer
Its a bit from the left field, but the Knight of the Black Rose novels from the Ravenloft line aren't Krynnish canon, according to Tracy Hickman. So I'd say Krynn is its own world, and the Spelljammer stuff is Elseworlds to the Dragonlance line. By extension, that would make Tiamat and Takhisis separate entities. I certainly find Tiamat's priesthood/minions more impressive than Takhisis's, but that's more a commentary on the types of fantasy that characterize Toril and Krynn.
Except that Wizards have declared that Soth in RAVENLOFT is canon -- for both worlds.
When Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman returned to TSR, there were reports of them saying that, as far as they were concerned, Soth never left Krynn for RAVENLOFT. To make their point, they even made Soth an "extra" in the novel Dragons of Summer Flame, released in 1995. This created a lot of [useless] confusion as to where Soth really is.
The official word from Wizards of the Coast is that Soth definitely did enter Ravenloft after the events of the novel Test of the Twins. And he definitely returned to Krynn in the autumn of 752 BC, during the events of the novel Spectre of the Black Rose, written by James Lowder. The in-game reasons behind Soth's escape, however, are nebulous and open to reader interpretation. Many interpreted it as a consequence of the fact that Soth was no longer feeling imprisoned and the Dark Powers decided to let go of their dull toy.
Also, although Soth definitely left Ravenloft in 752 BC, it has not been definitively stated when he reappeared on Krynn. Time flows strangely in RAVENLOFT when compared to other worlds and Soth could easily have reappeared in Dargaard Keep mere moments after he left it. Since then, Soth briefly appeared in other DRAGONLANCE novels before the authors of that setting eventually killed him off. In 3e products, you can find references to this character when the name "The Black Rose" is mentioned.
From James Lowder's own words on the Worlds of D&D forums:-
quote:
It was always my intention to have Soth's stay in Ravenloft a temporary one, and there was no pressure from WotC for me to plot the end of Spectre a certain way. I was on board with the idea of Soth returning to Krynn from the start.
When Knight of the Black Rose was planned, Margaret and Tracy were on bad terms with TSR, not working on anything with the company. As RL fiction line editor, I offered them both the chance to have input on the project, and Tracy the chance to write the book, but they declined. I understand why.
But I made it clear to them at the time Knight was proposed that I would do all I could to make certain Soth was not changed in such a way that he would be undermined when, or if, they came back to TSR to work on the DL line. When I could not find a writer who was capable of writing Knight without monkeying with Soth, the head of the department (Mary Kirchoff again) stepped in and asked me to take the assignment. It was an assignment I accepted somewhat reluctantly, I must admit. But it worked out for the best, I think.
In terms of continuity, I don't think it matters when Soth returns to Krynn in the DL timeline. Time works differently in the Mists, so he could be gone five minutes from Krynn, yet spend decades in the Dark Domains.
|
| The Sage |
Posted - 09 Jan 2013 : 01:01:07
quote:
Originally posted by creyzi4zb12
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by creyzi4zb12
Is it possible that the planets and stars in Dragonlance Krynnverse are smaller than the ones in Forgotten Realms?
There was this one instance in Dragonlance where Raistlin grew too powerful to become a starbuster.
Most stars in arcane space are not actually stars as well know them. They are instead very large critters, or portals to the plane of Radiance, or something else.
Wait, what?
Is this really true?
What kind of creature would that be? Some kind of huge Fire Elemental?
I mean, it must be really huge if you can actually see it so big from such a distance.
Fire elementals are one possibility. I've seen others that suggest ancient primordial beings of fire that predate the arch-elementals and elemental lords of the Planes of Fire and Radiance.
There's also the theory that the stars/portals connect to a particular Crystal Sphere's own star... |
| Entromancer |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 17:56:18
Its a bit from the left field, but the Knight of the Black Rose novels from the Ravenloft line aren't Krynnish canon, according to Tracy Hickman. So I'd say Krynn is its own world, and the Spelljammer stuff is Elseworlds to the Dragonlance line. By extension, that would make Tiamat and Takhisis separate entities. I certainly find Tiamat's priesthood/minions more impressive than Takhisis's, but that's more a commentary on the types of fantasy that characterize Toril and Krynn. |
| creyzi4zb12 |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 15:56:24
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by creyzi4zb12
Is it possible that the planets and stars in Dragonlance Krynnverse are smaller than the ones in Forgotten Realms?
There was this one instance in Dragonlance where Raistlin grew too powerful to become a starbuster.
Most stars in arcane space are not actually stars as well know them. They are instead very large critters, or portals to the plane of Radiance, or something else.
Wait, what?
Is this really true?
What kind of creature would that be? Some kind of huge Fire Elemental?
I mean, it must be really huge if you can actually see it so big from such a distance. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 15:39:51
I'm torn on this whole issue of stars...
I both like and dislike Spelljammer...I like stars being as they are in our universe: a star or system/galaxy in the sky.
To me, engaging the spelljamming helm simply transitions the craft into a parallel plane.
It is the only way I could mesh my desire to both have the Universe as somewhat "normal" and still allow spelljamming alongside technology.
EDIT: forgot to mention some things!
I reconciled the issue of tech in the realms not working by there actually being a powerful artifact that existed within the star of the Forgotten Realms which detected and neutralized certain tech at the direction of Ao. I never went beyond that though in thinking on it.
Magic to me is simply a type of Technology that uses existing physics of the universe in a different way. Magic is still technology in that sense...but a superior tech to that which we currently have on our own Earth.
As for Takhisis/Tiamat and Paladine/Bahamut...well, I still consider them as the same entity...that even on Krynn, Takhisis/Tiamat is only the manifestation of a greater being akin to that which is described in the Sumerian creation mythos. In the Forgotten Realms, Tiamat is both the same as and yet different from Takhisis because of Ao's dictates alone. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 15:35:10
So now I have to wonder how many Gnomish Paddlewheelers from Krynn or Realmspace are smooshed against those enormous gems.
"Lets take the radiance shortcut!" 
Like moths to a flame. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 06:21:35
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by creyzi4zb12
Is it possible that the planets and stars in Dragonlance Krynnverse are smaller than the ones in Forgotten Realms?
There was this one instance in Dragonlance where Raistlin grew too powerful to become a starbuster.
Most stars in arcane space are not actually stars as well know them. They are instead very large critters, or portals to the plane of Radiance, or something else.
Pretty much. The stars in both Krynnspace and Realmspace are portals to the Plane of Radiance [or, rather, portals to a radiant region of the Elemental Chaos if we're talking the 4e cosmology]. The stars in Greyspace, on the other hand, are embedded jewels in the Crystal Sphere. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 04:46:00
quote:
Originally posted by creyzi4zb12
Is it possible that the planets and stars in Dragonlance Krynnverse are smaller than the ones in Forgotten Realms?
There was this one instance in Dragonlance where Raistlin grew too powerful to become a starbuster.
Most stars in arcane space are not actually stars as well know them. They are instead very large critters, or portals to the plane of Radiance, or something else. |
| creyzi4zb12 |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 01:41:19
Is it possible that the planets and stars in Dragonlance Krynnverse are smaller than the ones in Forgotten Realms?
There was this one instance in Dragonlance where Raistlin grew too powerful to become a starbuster. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 15 Dec 2012 : 04:34:27
Or that deity could have been an avatar stranded on another world, who took or was given a different name and eventually came to believe in the alternate identity..... It could go both ways. Pick the one you like and use it, I say. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 14 Dec 2012 : 22:04:26
quote:
Originally posted by coach
yes, it doesn't really matter what the "official" stance is. Takhisis is too similar to Tiamat to not to be created specifically based upon the Tiamat mythos.
or are you guys believing that Takhisis and Tiamat are different ... are you saying that there are two separate evil female dragon deities with five heads that are Red, Blue, Green, Black, and White and each have an aspect of a dark haired beautiful female human and that the similarities are mere coincidence?
i mean i know that 3e says every world is separate but that doesnt make sense
There doesn't have to be a connection for there to be that similarity, nor a coincidence. It could be that one deity came first, learned about the shape the other one took, and said, "Hey, that's pretty nifty! I'll do the same!" |
| coach |
Posted - 14 Dec 2012 : 21:18:48
yes, it doesn't really matter what the "official" stance is. Takhisis is too similar to Tiamat to not to be created specifically based upon the Tiamat mythos.
or are you guys believing that Takhisis and Tiamat are different ... are you saying that there are two separate evil female dragon deities with five heads that are Red, Blue, Green, Black, and White and each have an aspect of a dark haired beautiful female human and that the similarities are mere coincidence?
i mean i know that 3e says every world is separate but that doesnt make sense |
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 11 Dec 2012 : 18:11:22
Well, I'd agree with Margaret and Tracy on just about everything Krynnish - - but NOT the gods. The gods of Dragonlance were Jeff Grubb's own gods, taken from his pre-existing D&D campaign. So on the Takhisis versus Tiamat thing, I'd go with Jeff's opinion.
(Most folks forget that Dragonlance was a created-in-house collaboration, with Margaret and Tracy emerging in the drivers' seats after their novels took off in popularity.)
Yes, I'm older than dirt. 
love to all,
THO |
| Bakra |
Posted - 11 Dec 2012 : 16:37:48
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
Ias under some strange belief that if you traveled to krynn from anywhere that you couldnt travel back or something......not sure why
It isn't strange at all. I think this was suggested after Krynn went missing. I'll dig around my old HD. I kept notes from the old Dragonlance forums. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 11 Dec 2012 : 14:47:32
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
As I recall, there was a character in the Cloakmaster Cycle named Kendel Leafbower. Pretty sure he showed up in the first book, while still in Krynnspace, but that he was a native of Evermeet.
Wait. Maybe I'm misremembering... but wasn't Kendal Leafbower a character from Elaine Cunningham's Silver Shadows?
Hmmm, think you're right. The elf I was thinking of was named something Leafbower, though, I'm sure of it.
You might be thinking of Vallus Leafbower, from Into the Void. He was an operative of the IEN. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 11 Dec 2012 : 14:10:20
Leafblower?
Was he related in any way to the 'Hedgetrimmer' family? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Dec 2012 : 11:16:45
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
As I recall, there was a character in the Cloakmaster Cycle named Kendel Leafbower. Pretty sure he showed up in the first book, while still in Krynnspace, but that he was a native of Evermeet.
Wait. Maybe I'm misremembering... but wasn't Kendal Leafbower a character from Elaine Cunningham's Silver Shadows?
Hmmm, think you're right. The elf I was thinking of was named something Leafbower, though, I'm sure of it. |
| sfdragon |
Posted - 11 Dec 2012 : 05:33:53
Ias under some strange belief that if you traveled to krynn from anywhere that you couldnt travel back or something......not sure why |
| The Sage |
Posted - 11 Dec 2012 : 05:30:24
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
As I recall, there was a character in the Cloakmaster Cycle named Kendel Leafbower. Pretty sure he showed up in the first book, while still in Krynnspace, but that he was a native of Evermeet.
Wait. Maybe I'm misremembering... but wasn't Kendal Leafbower a character from Elaine Cunningham's Silver Shadows? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Dec 2012 : 04:35:42
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
As for the elves, let's not forget the Imperial Elven Navy from Spelljammer, which no doubt has visited Krynn as well as Faerun.
Thinking back, I recall the Krynnspace supplement noting the spacefarers of the Crimson Caravan company are veteran traders regularly plying goods between Krynnspace, Greyspace, and Realmspace.
And I suspect more than a few native stowaways have jumped on-board and skipped from one Crystal Sphere to another.
As I recall, there was a character in the Cloakmaster Cycle named Kendel Leafbower. Pretty sure he showed up in the first book, while still in Krynnspace, but that he was a native of Evermeet.
One of my on-again, off-again projects (Currently so much off-again it might be on Sage's To-Do list) involves an elven NPC who is of mixed moon elf/Qualinesti descent.
|
| The Sage |
Posted - 11 Dec 2012 : 02:22:59
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
As for the elves, let's not forget the Imperial Elven Navy from Spelljammer, which no doubt has visited Krynn as well as Faerun.
Thinking back, I recall the Krynnspace supplement noting the spacefarers of the Crimson Caravan company are veteran traders regularly plying goods between Krynnspace, Greyspace, and Realmspace.
And I suspect more than a few native stowaways have jumped on-board and skipped from one Crystal Sphere to another. |
