| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Sir Vengeance |
Posted - 19 Jul 2005 : 00:51:17
Greetings to all FR fans, well, I thought it would be interesting to see what the FR fans want to see in their FR novels, so I posted this topic. Well, come, share what does you wish to see in your FR novels or had been secretly envisioning. But please no offensive statements against the authors.
Come, tell what's you had been dreaming to see in your FR novel, it can be Manshoon versus The Witch King or anything. Please share your views, thanks. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 30 Jul 2005 : 16:12:38
Ioulaum, I'm sure the various war-leaders want to see organized, effective battle tactics, too. However, if you look at the example you cited, it was a deliberate example of "fog of war," and far more realistic. (Believe me, I've been in a real war zone; generals who use pretty maps and "look down from above" are generally living in an even greater fantasy world than the Realms is!)
Specifically, that force was fighting a ground war against goblins and orcs, not expecting to face the Devil Dragon there and then. If you want to see a novel that deals with long, detailed battle scenes from a tactical level, be aware that most WotC editors think these will sell far less well (smaller audience appeal) than doing narrow-focus scenes on individual heroes and villains. Traditional sales figures bear this out.
love,
THO |
| Uniqueuponhim |
Posted - 30 Jul 2005 : 14:51:00
More (and better) character development. I just finished the Starlight & Shadows series and thought it was awesome just because Elaine Cunningham focused so much on the actual characters, without sacrificing any of the plot. This is the thing I don't like about most of Salvatore's FR books: The plots are great, but the characters are all so one-dimensional (the exception to this, of course, being Homeland.) I'd really love to see more books focusing on character development. I think a series about Gromph Baenre from his birth up until he becomes archmage would be awesome.
I'd also like to see less "good vs evil" type books, and more ones that don't have such clear cut "good" and "evil" sides. Those types of books tend to be a little too predictable, and you almost always know how they are going to end. This is why I like the War of the Spider Queen series (so far) and I'd like to see more books set in Calimport, focusing on the thief guilds there - things like that. |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 29 Jul 2005 : 12:50:51
Or Horselords, the Tuigan army was pretty darn well organised too. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 29 Jul 2005 : 11:24:07
quote:
Originally posted by Ioulaum
I want to see ORGANIZE armies, not mobs.
I want to see pincer movements, flanking maneuvers.
I want to see more effective use of magic in war
-illusionists hide the army
-diviners trying to locate opposing army
Have you read Crusade? The Alliance army was organized and made effective use of the War Wizards. |
| khorne |
Posted - 29 Jul 2005 : 09:50:08
quote:
Originally posted by Ioulaum
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ioulaum
I want to see armies fight. It blows my mind that with all the villans out there. No one has done a actual invasion with a real organise army lead by a competant general.
I know it won't happen since FR is dedicated to a small band of adventures but it would be nice to see a novel about real armies with real stragties.
The invasion of the Tuigan Horde, and Azoun IV's Crusade to stop them, don't qualify?
Or the fey'ri trying to take Evereska?
I want to see ORGANIZE armies, not mobs.
I want to see pincer movements, flanking maneuvers.
I want to see more effective use of magic in war
-illusionists hide the army
-diviners trying to locate opposing army
Here is a example that irks me quite a bit.
In Death of A Dragon, the reinforcement led by the Cleric of Tymora charge down a hill without any cover across a field knowing full well that a really big Red Dragon is lurking about. Her forces were not scatter to avoid excatly what happen to it.
That is what i call a prime example of what I don't want to see. What I wanted to see was someone who is leading a army would be smart enough to scatter her army to avoid being roast by the dragon, having her wizards and clerics keep a lookout for the dragon and casting anti-fire spells on her army if possible. Not doing a full charge into a death trap.
A valid point. |
| Ioulaum |
Posted - 29 Jul 2005 : 01:15:37
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ioulaum
I want to see armies fight. It blows my mind that with all the villans out there. No one has done a actual invasion with a real organise army lead by a competant general.
I know it won't happen since FR is dedicated to a small band of adventures but it would be nice to see a novel about real armies with real stragties.
The invasion of the Tuigan Horde, and Azoun IV's Crusade to stop them, don't qualify?
Or the fey'ri trying to take Evereska?
I want to see ORGANIZE armies, not mobs.
I want to see pincer movements, flanking maneuvers.
I want to see more effective use of magic in war
-illusionists hide the army
-diviners trying to locate opposing army
Here is a example that irks me quite a bit.
In Death of A Dragon, the reinforcement led by the Cleric of Tymora charge down a hill without any cover across a field knowing full well that a really big Red Dragon is lurking about. Her forces were not scatter to avoid excatly what happen to it.
That is what i call a prime example of what I don't want to see. What I wanted to see was someone who is leading a army would be smart enough to scatter her army to avoid being roast by the dragon, having her wizards and clerics keep a lookout for the dragon and casting anti-fire spells on her army if possible. Not doing a full charge into a death trap. |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 28 Jul 2005 : 22:27:02
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I know a lot of authors and a lot of fellow Realms fans have been pretty sure that they aren't listened to by WOTC and their book department, and this may be true. Obviously they don't want forum feedback on their books, since they did away with the novels forum and have basically banned novel only discussions.
I was under the impression that was more because of slamming and flaming authors, rather than because they didn't want the input. Not sure -- I've never been to the WotC boards, and I'm not really interested, since they don't have a novels section. 
quote:
But I wonder, who would you contact at WOTC to send a nice e-mail detailing which authors you really would like to see more of, and what characters. While they may ignore message boards, tons of well written, enthusiastic e-mails asking for more Elaine (and more of Lamruil and his new elven kingdom . . . just a personal preference) or any other author and well loved characters, might at least let them know where some of their sales are.
Ah, now here's the comment I wanted to address!
Such emails -- no matter how reasoned and cogent -- I think, may well come off as mere fanmail (particularly if one were to send tons, which will just sound rabid), and WotC doesn't know whether what you're saying is true for a wide audience (which would be helpful to the pocketbooks) or just yourself (not quite as helpful).
The messages that should really be sent, actually, are letters and emails urging and begging WotC to expand their publishing department: give their current editors at least a slight raise, hire an additional editor or two, and release more books say, oh, half again as many, or even twice as many each year. Then all the authors you know and love will have space and additional freedom to explore.
'Course, WotC needs the money to do that, and money comes from selling books, and the MOST money comes from selling books that'll sell exceptionally well, which of course they have to guess. . . Sigh.
I think getting RAS on the top 10 list and having more and more bestsellers is helping out, though. . .
Good luck!
Cheers |
| Neo2151 |
Posted - 28 Jul 2005 : 08:12:30
Hm, honestly I'd say I'd like to see more stories focused on the Knights, but as it seems, Ed's already taking care of that one, so no need to mention it really
Other than that, I'd honestly love to see novels set inside one of the various orginizations that exist. There's SO much lore that isn't being used it makes me sick. Show me the story of a member of the Nightmasks or the Shadowlords. Give me a story about Larloch's plans from his POV rather than having the evil guy be the antiganist all the time. Someone mentioned stories of the three Manshoon clones. Personally I think that'd be a great idea. More Manshoon period in my opinion is good as he's always downplayed as a weakling compared to his rivals when he actually makes appearances (powerful spellfire weilder, strongest chosen of mystra, etc.). As much as I love a good RSE every now and then, it's the stories about the little guys I remember so much more. With an RSE, it's so action packed that you can't not enjoy it, but it doesn't give you as much focus on the little guys like it aught to. Scions of Arrabar is quickly becoming some of my favorite reads for just that reason. |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 26 Jul 2005 : 23:30:49
Wooly, he meant REALLY organized invasions, you know, not like the Shades or even the great marching of Obould against Mithral Hall. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 26 Jul 2005 : 22:56:38
quote:
Originally posted by Ioulaum
I want to see armies fight. It blows my mind that with all the villans out there. No one has done a actual invasion with a real organise army lead by a competant general.
I know it won't happen since FR is dedicated to a small band of adventures but it would be nice to see a novel about real armies with real stragties.
The invasion of the Tuigan Horde, and Azoun IV's Crusade to stop them, don't qualify?
Or the fey'ri trying to take Evereska?
|
| Ioulaum |
Posted - 26 Jul 2005 : 19:59:23
I want to see armies fight. It blows my mind that with all the villans out there. No one has done a actual invasion with a real organise army lead by a competant general.
I know it won't happen since FR is dedicated to a small band of adventures but it would be nice to see a novel about real armies with real stragties. |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 26 Jul 2005 : 15:28:33
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
What we need is for some hardcore FR fans to take over Hasbro.
Huh?, Why? |
| khorne |
Posted - 26 Jul 2005 : 13:42:01
What we need is for some hardcore FR fans to take over Hasbro. |
| Accursed |
Posted - 25 Jul 2005 : 17:33:22
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
No more Realms Shaking Events. I'm tired of watching FR get ripped apart or destroyed in each novel or trilogy. A small change is fine but this continent spanning destruction is getting out of hand. Damn Time of Troubles started it and it just keeps getting worse and worse.
I certainly agree with this.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I want to see a series of books, each dedicated to a different Manshoon clone -- hopefully including some clones beyond the "official three".
Now, this idea has some potential! 
quote:
Originally posted by VEDSICA
I also wouldn't mind seeing the timeline advanced a dash so that the infant Azoun could take the throne.I kind of like Cormyr...Though that's most likely not going to happen.
This is also something I would like to see, but I agree it isn't likely.... 
|
| The Sage |
Posted - 23 Jul 2005 : 06:59:21
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
I agree. I much prefer the lower impact stories over RSE's. Sembia is one perfect example. Again, the Erevis Cale trilogy is a stunning series so far but is very localised.
Another....The Yellow Silk - fantastic!, and only set in the dirty backstreets of a settlement never mentioned before.
For these stories, for the locals, it IS a RSE... THEIR world has been disrupted and shattered, and I feel more of an impact by concentrating on that aspect than I do with tales that tell of global effects for some reason. I guess it appears more down to earth in a way.
So it appears that there are two definitions to the term RSE:
1) It can be an event that turns the Realms upside down.
2) It also can be an event that turn upside down the character's life.
While the latter viewpoint is a valid one, most of are referring to the 1st choice when we speak of RSEs.
Indeed. By its very definition, a "Realms Shaking (Shattering) Events" usually encompass a fairly large area of the Realms and quite a considerable number of people, places, and races.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 23 Jul 2005 : 05:53:24
quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
I agree. I much prefer the lower impact stories over RSE's. Sembia is one perfect example. Again, the Erevis Cale trilogy is a stunning series so far but is very localised.
Another....The Yellow Silk - fantastic!, and only set in the dirty backstreets of a settlement never mentioned before.
For these stories, for the locals, it IS a RSE... THEIR world has been disrupted and shattered, and I feel more of an impact by concentrating on that aspect than I do with tales that tell of global effects for some reason. I guess it appears more down to earth in a way.
So it appears that there are two definitions to the term RSE:
1) It can be an event that turns the Realms upside down.
2) It also can be an event that turn upside down the character's life.
While the latter viewpoint is a valid one, most of are referring to the 1st choice when we speak of RSEs. |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 23 Jul 2005 : 05:23:32
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
I agree. I much prefer the lower impact stories over RSE's. Sembia is one perfect example. Again, the Erevis Cale trilogy is a stunning series so far but is very localised.
Another....The Yellow Silk - fantastic!, and only set in the dirty backstreets of a settlement never mentioned before.
For these stories, for the locals, it IS a RSE... THEIR world has been disrupted and shattered, and I feel more of an impact by concentrating on that aspect than I do with tales that tell of global effects for some reason. I guess it appears more down to earth in a way.
So it appears that there are two definitions to the term RSE:
1) It can be an event that turns the Realms upside down.
2) It also can be an event that turn upside down the character's life. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 23 Jul 2005 : 02:30:28
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
Another....The Yellow Silk - fantastic!, and only set in the dirty backstreets of a settlement never mentioned before.
Echoes this.
The Yellow Silk was a great addition to 'The Rogues' series. And it was a pleasure finally reading an FR novel that connected (although only moderately) with Kara-Tur.
|
| Lord Rad |
Posted - 22 Jul 2005 : 17:09:49
I agree. I much prefer the lower impact stories over RSE's. Sembia is one perfect example. Again, the Erevis Cale trilogy is a stunning series so far but is very localised.
Another....The Yellow Silk - fantastic!, and only set in the dirty backstreets of a settlement never mentioned before.
For these stories, for the locals, it IS a RSE... THEIR world has been disrupted and shattered, and I feel more of an impact by concentrating on that aspect than I do with tales that tell of global effects for some reason. I guess it appears more down to earth in a way. |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 22 Jul 2005 : 16:33:36
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
I'd like to think that we can do stories that feel big, important, and generally epic without blowing up half of Faerūn or depicting preposterous situations where mortal heroes slaughter godlike entities against whom they ought to have no chance whatsoever. That's what I'm trying to do in Year of Rogue Dragons, although, of course, it's not for me to say whether I'm succeeding. That's for readers to judge.
Succeeding quite well Richard, I liked the Rite fairly well (but not as much as Shattered Mask).
quote:
I do understand the point of view of readers who feel there are just too many RSE's. Although obviously, at this point, with two of the darn things under my belt, I'd be considered part of the problem.
I imagine that from WotC's point of view, the bottom line is that RSE's sell better than the average FR novel, and as long as that's the case, they'll keep asking us writers to bang them out.
Yup, I may prefer the smaller stories of the Harpers- or Sembia-series to the big earth-shattering themes (they tend to work better on celluloid than in ink, in my opinion), but I'm definately not blaming the authors for not getting as much of it as I want, and I can't say that I can become too upset with WoTC for wanting to earn money of their products either, still I would like it if the Realms-shattering events could become Realm-shattering instead.
P.S. Thanks for the comment made by Melder about women worshiping a goddess who likes to take the form of a unicorn, a small but clever sentece that had me smiling for an hour or so |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 22 Jul 2005 : 13:01:52
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I am against larger RSEs for exactly the reason that Kajehase espoused: too many lessens the impact. I used to read superhero comic books, and that was one of the things that soured me on them. Every week, there was a new villain and a new threat to All of Existence. So they battle, the white hats win, they go home... And then, days later, it happens again. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Another issue is scope. Bigger than the ToT? The gods themselves getting kicked out of the heavens, their power dimished to the point that mortals could kill them, magic and nature going awry... And this isn't big enough for you?
Oh, and all of the deities in the world were cast down during the ToT. It affected all pantheons, not just the Faerūnian one. Racial pantheons and regional pantheons were all cast down.
Someone else suggested Lord Ao being cast down. To what end? Lord Ao is more powerful than the deities who created the world. Why should he be cast down?
And the Elder Eternal Evils are powerful enough to challenge the gods while they are still in the heavens. Cast them down, and the gods are toast if they have to fight Kezef, Dendar, and the Ityak-Ortheel.
Further, going for bigger and bigger events takes the focus away from the people who live in the Realms. What's Drizzt going to do to the Ityak-Ortheel? Nothing, he'll be an appetizer. Erevis Cale? Dendar would roll over and crush him without noticing. Danilo Thann? He might provide a moment's amusement to Kezef before being blotted out of existence...
Amusing reply, I hope the Ityak-Ortheel will get a serious terrible bout of indigestion after eating Drizzt. Erevis Cale unlikely to be steam rolled by Dendar, afterall, even as an Elder Eternal Evil, it has minor weaknesses to be exploited into big weaknesses by small and rapid moving shades. |
| Never |
Posted - 21 Jul 2005 : 23:55:21
Sir Vengeance
"Greetings to all FR fans, well, I thought it would be interesting to see what the FR fans want to see in their FR novels, so I posted this topic. Well, come, share what does you wish to see in your FR novels or had been secretly envisioning. But please no offensive statements against the authors.
Come, tell what's you had been dreaming to see in your FR novel, it can be Manshoon versus The Witch King or anything. Please share your views, thanks."
Sex is good. But gore has its place as well.
Seriously, I tend to write short stories about what I'd 'like to see.' It gets it out of me and gets me my fix. I'm starting one about a half-elf living in a small, human village who increasingly isolates herself from others in order to avoid rejection. As the only priestess, her withdrawal from the community precipitates both a poor harvest and several deaths from starvation and illness during the coming winter. She is abandoned first socially and then physically when a group of orc raiders appear. What follows is as much about her showing her worth as it is her efforts to survive.
I guess that's a good example of what I'd like to expand on that. I'd like to see 'little stories,' stories that focus more on a character's personal desires and goals then realm-spanning tales in which a group of adventurers save the world from an invasion of evil moppets. I don't want dragon slayers; I'd much rather read about someone surviving on a combination of luck, cunning, and skill than their massive attack bonus, plethora of magical items, and enough eldritch firepower to wipe away Tokyo.
I'd like to see more mature themes, both a 'not suitable for children' mature and a 'requiring an adult sensibility' mature. I remember reading TSRs Code of Ethics and being repulsed. I have the feeling that WotC has loosened the reins since then (I haven't seen theirs) but it seems they still feel that the Forgotten Realms should only include fantasy action-adventures with simple moral demarcations in which there is always a happy ending (good guys win/bad guys die). I appreciate that there are solid, financial reasons for this but notice the books are becoming more flexible and hope to see more.
One last bit. I'm not certain if this is will make sense but with some books I am very aware of there being a game behind it. Every fantasy world has rules but I don't enjoy books were there's an obvious ruleset. The characters don't grow as much as level and the structure is more gamelike than storylike. Does anyone else get this feeling?
[/unlikely wish list]
|
| Chosen of Bane |
Posted - 21 Jul 2005 : 19:43:59
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
That's what I'm trying to do in Year of Rogue Dragons
If my vote counts for anything Mr. Byers you are doing a fine job. I thoroughly enjoy the Rogue Dragons books. I was actually using the term "pseudo-RSE" in a positive manner. If I remember correctly the only thing that has really been destroyed is Ylraphon, which has been rebuilt countless times anyway.
Events like the Time of Troubles are the real problem in my opinion. If the Year of Rogue Dragons included the Draconic destruction of Waterdeep, Calimport, and all of Cormyr than I would probably have a problem with them. |
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 21 Jul 2005 : 19:29:51
I'd like to think that we can do stories that feel big, important, and generally epic without blowing up half of Faerūn or depicting preposterous situations where mortal heroes slaughter godlike entities against whom they ought to have no chance whatsoever. That's what I'm trying to do in Year of Rogue Dragons, although, of course, it's not for me to say whether I'm succeeding. That's for readers to judge.
I do understand the point of view of readers who feel there are just too many RSE's. Although obviously, at this point, with two of the darn things under my belt, I'd be considered part of the problem.
I imagine that from WotC's point of view, the bottom line is that RSE's sell better than the average FR novel, and as long as that's the case, they'll keep asking us writers to bang them out. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 21 Jul 2005 : 17:49:48
I whole heartedly agree with Wooly, with one exception:
Kezef would have dibs on Cale. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 21 Jul 2005 : 17:45:46
I am against larger RSEs for exactly the reason that Kajehase espoused: too many lessens the impact. I used to read superhero comic books, and that was one of the things that soured me on them. Every week, there was a new villain and a new threat to All of Existence. So they battle, the white hats win, they go home... And then, days later, it happens again. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Another issue is scope. Bigger than the ToT? The gods themselves getting kicked out of the heavens, their power dimished to the point that mortals could kill them, magic and nature going awry... And this isn't big enough for you?
Oh, and all of the deities in the world were cast down during the ToT. It affected all pantheons, not just the Faerūnian one. Racial pantheons and regional pantheons were all cast down.
Someone else suggested Lord Ao being cast down. To what end? Lord Ao is more powerful than the deities who created the world. Why should he be cast down?
And the Elder Eternal Evils are powerful enough to challenge the gods while they are still in the heavens. Cast them down, and the gods are toast if they have to fight Kezef, Dendar, and the Ityak-Ortheel.
Further, going for bigger and bigger events takes the focus away from the people who live in the Realms. What's Drizzt going to do to the Ityak-Ortheel? Nothing, he'll be an appetizer. Erevis Cale? Dendar would roll over and crush him without noticing. Danilo Thann? He might provide a moment's amusement to Kezef before being blotted out of existence... |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 21 Jul 2005 : 17:21:40
Oh, that was good. Damn frog elves anyway . . . quote:
"That's it, I'm moving to Ankh-Morpork. At least you're not supposed to be surprised by this sort of thing happening there."
|
| Kajehase |
Posted - 21 Jul 2005 : 16:38:37
Shadovar, I think the point Chosen of Bane was trying to make was that someone new to the Realms probably is less likely to cringe at the thought of yet another RSE of the year.
Then again, I've merely been reading these books and game-accessories for less than three years, and as can be surmised from my choice of words, am not too fond of the big Realms-shattering stories. What I want when I read an FR-book is:
A) A good, fast-paced adventure story clearly set in the Forgotten Realms.
B) And even more importantly, but something I want from all fiction-novels I read, well developed characters.
Furthermore, while I certainly don't mind the ocasional BIG event, when there is one every year the impact tend to become somewhat lessened.
"Help help, the world is coming to an end!" the common-looking commoner screamed as he ran through the generic-styled tavern.
"What, again?" said the innkeeper to one of the mercenaries leaning against the bar.
"They say that the frog-elves who lived among the sea elves in the olden days have returned from the Plane of Ale, and that they're pissed!" the commoner screamed, turning slightly blue in the face.
"Frog-elves?" A look of disgust crossed across the face of the mercenary who straightened his loincloth and straightened himself. "That's it, I'm moving to Ankh-Morpork. At least you're not supposed to be surprised by this sort of thing happening there." |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 21 Jul 2005 : 13:50:24
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Bane
quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
Sigh, what a pity that supporters for RSE's are so few.
Shadovar, may I ask.... Are you [fairly] new to the realms? As in started with 3rd edition?
An amusing reply , thanks, Chosen of Bane, for providing hours of amusement for me by asking me that question.
But since you ask me question, still I will answer that question of yours as I see no right to deny you an answer. Perhaps I admit I am not that knowledgeable in FR as everyone here despite working hard on researching FR lore and stuff during my now fewer and fewer free hours. But somehow, you see, certain critical FR materials I need are "extinct" so knowledge I seek on certain FR stuff are lost, worse still, they are hard to find and expensive to purchase as well. So you can say I am quite new to FR itself. |
| TymoraChosen |
Posted - 21 Jul 2005 : 13:03:41
As an FR fan, I am not afraid nor upset by sweeping changes to the Realms, instead I support such changes. Anyway, every beginning has its end which cannot be delayed nor denied. Therefore, I am hoping that more powerful and even more realm shaking RSE's would be written as I am a fan of RSEs anyway. I hope the upcoming RSEs will involve more ancient enemies of Toril and of the gods as well, which will make things more thrilling, more appetizing to my taste. |
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