| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Arion Elenim |
Posted - 13 Jul 2004 : 16:06:03
SPOILERS!!!!!!!
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For years I happily hated Wulfgar. I felt that he was just a massive drag on the party, prone to more dangerous outbursts and more reckless behavior than Drizzt ever had - which is saying a lot.
THEN...Salvatore "killed him off" and I was happy. Wulfgar's return was a huge downpoint for me....
Then something happened I never saw coming. Somehow, Salvatore managed to completely redeem the character. The change in Wulfgar since his return to his friends, wife and daughter in tow, has been one of the most enjoyable turns in the entire series. Since then, of course I've moved onto the rest of the series, but I still remember that little moment of dawning realization....I LIKED WULFGAR.
Did this happen to anyone else? Even though Salvatore has stated that he regretted not leaving Wulfgar for dead (WOTC forums...I think...maybe on the RAS website), I can't believe how acceptable the character's return was for me..... |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Sorenna_Melruth |
Posted - 03 Apr 2005 : 20:54:27
My big problem with Wulfgar had to be the fact that when he was alive he was suppose to be wedding Catti but he never showed any interest in her through the pages of the book, where we could clearly see the relationship between Catti and Drizzt we could not with Wulfgar and Catti. I disliked him mainly because he was so I am might and poweful, though this faded as the books went on, which I am greatful for.
After Wulfgar's death however, I found myself glad that he had gone, there seemed to be a weight lifted off the whole books, then he came back. I was with Drizzt and Brunnor if Wulfgar ever hit Catti again that he should indeed be killed and let me tell you friends that an axe to cut you down to size is a mean concept!
His sudden fixiation with Catti brie over it was like he attatched himself to Deli decided to get married and adopt a kid to hell with the rest of his friends and his companions whom not a couple of books ago he'd go into hell for. I know that demon torturing is bad, but Salvatore did more then break Wulfgar's spirit, he broke the character, in my opinion. I was dis-satisfied with this and I still dislike his wife.
I read all the books faithfully and I do love Ra Salvatore's work he's been my favorite writer until recently with Rich Baker he's topped my favorites list.
I don't mind angst but the constant seperation of the characters, and the includants of new ones Like Innovindel has made me go -sigh- another girl for compitition. There is something about her that I just don't like, and after waiting for ages for him and Catti to hook up he finds her after grieving over the fact he feared them dead, and just leaves in the morning...please thats just ...I don't have words for it because it somehow seems wrong to me.
These are just my general ranting. ^_^ |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 23 Mar 2005 : 11:30:01
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Weiser_Cain
Bringing the characters back to life cheapens their death and makes it just about meaningless.
Excellent point. A heroic death doesn't have the same impact if readers expect the inevitable return.
That's why I think RAS would be making a mistake to kill off Wulfgar again... |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 23 Mar 2005 : 06:19:45
quote:
Originally posted by Weiser_Cain
Bringing the characters back to life cheapens their death and makes it just about meaningless.
Excellent point. A heroic death doesn't have the same impact if readers expect the inevitable return. |
| Weiser_Cain |
Posted - 23 Mar 2005 : 05:56:44
Bringing the characters back to life cheapens their death and makes it just about meaningless. I never liked the barbarian. I always thought the drow would get the girl and I'm glad that happened...eventually. |
| MR. T |
Posted - 21 Mar 2005 : 17:47:40
I like Wulfgar. His character isn't too boring or stereotypical, at least no more so than any other companion. He's well placed in the novels and serves his role well. I must admit the supposed death plot twist was interesting as was his change in character. I liked him as a ruthless thug. Alas, the companions of the hall aren't whole without him and I think reading the novels wouldn't be the same without him either. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 13 Mar 2005 : 05:43:33
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
"Remember back on the first season of Happy Days, the Fonz was a well-written character," Salvatore said. "He was the coolest of the cool. Then, as the series progressed, here's a guy from Milwaukee, right? Suddenly he's going out to the West Coast and winning surfing contests, he's jumping his bike farther than anyone's ever done before. He became invincible. Under his leather jacket there appeared a big S -- Superman. That's not going to happen to Drizzt."
A very interesting quote given when it was made and the current time frame for the character. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Mar 2005 : 18:01:36
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Ironically, in the interview in Dragon magazine, RAS specifically said he didn't want Drizzt to turn out like the Fonz! 
 He did? What issue? Priceless.
Page 80 of issue 188, the same interview where he discusses how Drizzt was created.
quote:
Many readers admire Drizzt as well, but the author worries that the drow's reputation may get a little out of control. He doesn't want the character to lose his vulnerability and become "Fonzie-ized."
"Remember back on the first season of Happy Days, the Fonz was a well-written character," Salvatore said. "He was the coolest of the cool. Then, as the series progressed, here's a guy from Milwaukee, right? Suddenly he's going out to the West Coast and winning surfing contests, he's jumping his bike farther than anyone's ever done before. He became invincible. Under his leather jacket there appeared a big S -- Superman. That's not going to happen to Drizzt."
|
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 12 Mar 2005 : 07:44:48
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
RAS could simply end the series, and we readers could use our imaginations to decide what happened next.
Sounds like the old adage, always leave them wanting more. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 12 Mar 2005 : 07:43:08
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Well, as long as he doen't end up acting oposite Adam Sandler or dueling with Mork . . . Good Lord I know way too much about Henry Winkler's career . . .
Drizzt versus Mork? I'd pay to see that movie more than most of the tripe currently found at the box office. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 12 Mar 2005 : 07:42:04
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Ironically, in the interview in Dragon magazine, RAS specifically said he didn't want Drizzt to turn out like the Fonz!
He did? What issue? Priceless. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 12 Mar 2005 : 01:29:04
From interview I have heard I don't think its a matter of "you owe us another 12 books with Drizzt in them," so much as he goes to the book department and tells them he wants to do a book and they say . . . "How does that relate to Drizzt?"
In fact, I somehow suspect that he might have given them this trilogy to get to do the Jarlaxle and Artemis books . . . but I could be wrong. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 12 Mar 2005 : 00:56:32
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Yep! I rather think the series jumped the shark a long time ago. I read and enjoy the novels, but let's face it. The Drizzt series is essentially one long soap opera.
Interesting comparison considering soap operas constantly love to have characters come back from apparent deaths. I believe a show some ladies in my life liked featured someone called Stefano DiMera returning from death, not once, not twice, but three or four times.
LOL! Interesting comparision, indeed. I have to wonder if RAS feels that he has to have characters "die" and return in order to keep the series exciting?
I'm not one of those people, btw, who believes that killing of Drizzt or some other character would or could, in itself, improve the series or make it more "interesting". However, would it be such a bad thing if RAS just let the series go? Maybe he can't for contractual reasons (who knows?), but still, Drizzt doesn't need to die a tragic death in defense of all he believes in. We don't need to watch him get married, grow old, have children, and read about the adventures of his children. RAS could simply end the series, and we readers could use our imaginations to decide what happened next. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 12 Mar 2005 : 00:36:49
Well, as long as he doen't end up acting oposite Adam Sandler or dueling with Mork . . . Good Lord I know way too much about Henry Winkler's career . . . |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Mar 2005 : 00:00:08
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
In regard to the "jumping the shark" comment . . . picturing Drizzt wearing a leather jacket and snapping his fingers to start a juke box . . . "aaaaaaaaaaaaa"
Ironically, in the interview in Dragon magazine, RAS specifically said he didn't want Drizzt to turn out like the Fonz! |
| Mareka |
Posted - 11 Mar 2005 : 22:38:38
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
All that having been said, I am really looking forward to the Jarlaxle and Entrerei books that he will be doing, and in his interview he even talked about doing a book about Zaknafein and Jarlaxle in their younger days, which I would definately buy.
I found Zaknafein to be a more interesting character than Drizzt in the 'Dark Elf' books and I'd love to read more about him too. I just don't think the story would be any different than Homeland. The protagonist would just have a different name. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 11 Mar 2005 : 15:39:17
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
In regard to the "jumping the shark" comment . . . picturing Drizzt wearing a leather jacket and snapping his fingers to start a juke box . . . "aaaaaaaaaaaaa"
What I get for making the comment. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 11 Mar 2005 : 11:19:37
In regard to the "jumping the shark" comment . . . picturing Drizzt wearing a leather jacket and snapping his fingers to start a juke box . . . "aaaaaaaaaaaaa" |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 11 Mar 2005 : 07:34:00
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Yep! I rather think the series jumped the shark a long time ago. I read and enjoy the novels, but let's face it. The Drizzt series is essentially one long soap opera.
So... does that mean that Drizzt will step out of his shower in the Do'urden house in Menzobarrenzan and discover everything has been a dream? |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 11 Mar 2005 : 02:53:59
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Yep! I rather think the series jumped the shark a long time ago. I read and enjoy the novels, but let's face it. The Drizzt series is essentially one long soap opera.
Interesting comparison considering soap operas constantly love to have characters come back from apparent deaths. I believe a show some ladies in my life liked featured someone called Stefano DiMera returning from death, not once, not twice, but three or four times. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 11 Mar 2005 : 01:48:59
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I think, relating to the topic, Wulfgar just didn't do a whole lot of character development in the books, and actually backslid a bit. As I said, after Spine of the World, which I loved, I really think I could picture Wulfgar, Delly, and Colson living out their lives in Waterdeep with Wulfgar working as a blacksmith.
Yes! Honestly, I think RAS missed (perhaps deliberately?) a wonderful opportunity to have Wulfgar grow and change. He took on both a wife and a child, and then in the course of the series, went right back to the character he was in the earlier books. The end of The Two Swords suggests that he is even going travel alongside Catti-brie! I hope I'm wrong, but I'm starting to sense that he is going to start feeling for Cattie-brie again, while she loves both Wulfgar and Drizzt (and isn't sure if she loves one or both only as a friend) and there is going to be a love triangle and all this angst...
And meanwhile, Drizzt won't be able to decide whether or not he loves Cattie-brie or Innovindil, or whether he loves one or both "only as a friend"...
quote:
Believe the phrase is "jumping the shark."
Yep! I rather think the series jumped the shark a long time ago. I read and enjoy the novels, but let's face it. The Drizzt series is essentially one long soap opera. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 10 Mar 2005 : 14:00:45
I just don't want anyone to think I am just bashing RAS. I really do like a lot of his stuff. I actually liked the begining of the Hunter's Blades trilogy, "The Thousand Orcs", but I really felt that it slid downhill over the next two books.
I think, relating to the topic, Wulfgar just didn't do a whole lot of character development in the books, and actually backslid a bit. As I said, after Spine of the World, which I loved, I really think I could picture Wulfgar, Delly, and Colson living out their lives in Waterdeep with Wulfgar working as a blacksmith.
I do think RAS has a double edged sword going with Drizzt and crew. Sometimes I think that its not just the WOTC directives that handcuff him, but also that he doesn't want to loose the fan base that he has installed already by taking too many chances. The interview that I just listed too from before he finished the Two Swords seemed to indicate this as well.
All that having been said, I am really looking forward to the Jarlaxle and Entrerei books that he will be doing, and in his interview he even talked about doing a book about Zaknafein and Jarlaxle in their younger days, which I would definately buy.
I worry that if he comes back to this "Lets find Gauntlygrim as a fellowship" we start down the "Streams of Silver 2" path. I almost think that in the future it would almost be worth it to only see the original Icewind Dale characters as cameos, much like his cleric quintet characters have been doing lately.
And also, pointing out that I really do enjoy RAS writing and its just specifically the recent Drizzt books that have gotten to me, I was really excited to hear that RAS is still wanting to explore the Danica versus Entrerai subplot that he started in Servant of the Shard.
In the end Wulfgar seems kinda small in the middle of all of this . . . |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 10 Mar 2005 : 11:24:20
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That could be a lot of what the problem is... I'm sure RAS would like to move on to other characters by now.
Has he ever expressed this desire?
Not to my knowledge... However, it seems to me that his use of Cleric Quintet characters in Drizzt books is expressive of a desire to write about someone other than Drizzt and friends. |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 10 Mar 2005 : 06:29:42
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That could be a lot of what the problem is... I'm sure RAS would like to move on to other characters by now.
Has he ever expressed this desire? |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 10 Mar 2005 : 06:28:39
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I don't know how many reading this were fans of comic books, but it reminds me of writers that were great at one time but eventually they just can't keep writing the same character. Chris Claremont was great on X-Men for years, but towards the end, and when he tried to come back to the series, it was just so convoluted and stale becuase he had "done it all".
Believe the phrase is "jumping the shark." |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 10 Mar 2005 : 05:29:16
That could be a lot of what the problem is... I'm sure RAS would like to move on to other characters by now.
Drizzt and company were great, in the beginning... But the more I read about them, the less I care. It just starts to run together... |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 10 Mar 2005 : 04:02:11
Honestly though, this is what I worry about. The Icewind Dale books and the Dark Elf Trilogy were great books, and the longer this series winds on, the less people remember that there was a time when these were the cash cow but actually good books that drew fans in.
I'm not saying that I don't like the latter books at all, but they certainly aren't up to the original books. In fact, Spine of the World was such a releif because it was different, as was Servant of the Shard. It has nothing to do with RAS ability except that sometimes you have to leave characters behind for a while.
I am reminded of what Douglas Niles said about his second Moonshaes trilogy, that he set it so many years after the first one so that you could feel like the ending really had a lasting effect, so that you felt like the heroes won a lasting victory, not a breif respite. Let Bruenor rule for a few years in relative peace, let Drizzt and Catti-brie wander (maybe put out to sea again, as that was a fairly enjoyable plot line), and perhaps have a child, let Wulfgar get away from violence for a while, and then see how they react YEARS later to danger.
I don't know how many reading this were fans of comic books, but it reminds me of writers that were great at one time but eventually they just can't keep writing the same character. Chris Claremont was great on X-Men for years, but towards the end, and when he tried to come back to the series, it was just so convoluted and stale becuase he had "done it all". |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 09 Mar 2005 : 22:21:40
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
*resists cracking a one-liner about the Drizzt books herself...*
Oh no, you being reticent.  No, I won't have it. Please share with the rest of the asylum.
Very well...
I was going to say, the Drizzt books are great for those who are in the mood for some Whine and Cheese.
get it? |
| SiriusBlack |
Posted - 09 Mar 2005 : 04:59:10
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
*resists cracking a one-liner about the Drizzt books herself...*
Oh no, you being reticent. No, I won't have it. Please share with the rest of the asylum. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 08 Mar 2005 : 22:44:31
*resists cracking a one-liner about the Drizzt books herself...* |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 08 Mar 2005 : 11:24:24
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The Grim Reaper is afraid of those whirling scimitars... 
Why Gracie do you feed me such perfect one liners that I must resist commenting on...
It's my specialty.  |
