| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Schreckstoff |
Posted - 20 Oct 2014 : 20:45:14
Disclaimer: *Spoilers* if that wasn't obvious, continue at your own risk.
Here's my random thoughts.
They did, it happened and it was so very sad with Lorcan, so very sweet with Dahl and then so sad again at the end. Poor Farideh just can't catch a break.
Also why is it Farideh that did far more to save Suzail but it is Havilar who gets eternalized in paint, fortune favours the foolish?
Dahl finally back on his track to Oghma, though I still don't understand just how he's different in displaying text on his soul instead of his alignment and traits.
I had no idea Mehen is gay, my gaydar is simply nonfunctioning and I apparently completely missed Arjhani being male, /facepalm I know.
Really grew to like Dumuzin.
Raedra is just another amazing female character who grew a lot just in this book, I hope it's not the last we've seen of her and that she won't waste away on the throne.
Brin, I'm just not a fan of his. I still don't see his relationship to Havilar as more than a summer love and he treated her just horribly. They did break up for now but he got away rather scot free. He's free of his family, free of Constancia but always has the option to come back and Havi still has obvious feelings for him.
Havilar is just as fortunate, again she and Brin did break up but whenever Farideh gets desperate or messes up she has to suffer gruesome consequences while Havilar gets a slap on her fingers at best. She got a frickin resurrection at the price of a meager Imp.
Then there's Azuth, Ilstan is a poor and misguided fellow and Azuth might be crazy, trying to break free of or in cahoots with Asmodeus. What's makes me uncertain of this is The Gift Farideh received where 2 voices intertwined, we also don't know if it was a temporary or if Farideh is twice chosen now, thrice if we consider the possible divine intervention by Selune again.
Lorcan and Sairché being descendants of the Toril 13 came at quite the surprise but while I came to like Sairché more, Lorcan seems much less redeemable again. It looked like he could overcome some of his heritage in previous books but it seems all of that regressed under the pressure he was at.
That's all I can come up with from the top of my head. Kudos to Evans for writing just another amazing book, calmer this time but all the more character growth. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| ErinMEvans |
Posted - 19 Jan 2015 : 19:46:07
quote:
Originally posted by Entromancer
Erin, I'd like to pick your brain on the writing process for the Brimstone Angels characters. How do you approach writing from the perspectives of the tieflings and dragonborn in such a way that someone couldn't shrug any of these off as being interchangeable with humans?
There are four “directions” I think non-human characters ought to be considered from, assuming you want them to be relatable (e.g. if they have a point-of-view within a narrative, they ought to be relatable). To roughly sketch them out with categories I literally just made up:
Internal-Internal: This is who they are on the inside, their hopes and fears and goals and such. Their personality. This is the most “human” part, because again, we’re assuming relatability. Besides, when you’re talking about tieflings and dragonborn and even cambions, you’re talking about races that are part human. You can’t lose sight of that. Specifics here ought to broadly match up to the kinds of specifics you’d give a human character: What does she do to relieve stress? How does he react when a pretty/handsome counterpart flirts? Are they a morning person? Do they like snakes? What would make them barf? Etc.
But the next critical step to consider in terms of a non-human character is how socio-cultural pressures affect their personality.* The pitfall here is the PHB Prototype Trap: making your character The Tiefling or The Dragonborn or The Elf, even, instead of considering them as an individual within their culture/others’ culture. Characters shouldn’t exist solely to show off the PHB summary, you know? They need to have their own story, not just the story of their race.
The Brimstone Angels excerpt placed in the tiefling entry for the 5E PHB summarizes this: Tieflings don’t have a homogenous culture, but it’s fair to say many societies marginalize them in a predictable way and expect bad things from them. So what do you do? Do you fight that perception? Do you embrace it? Do you ignore it and push it all down? Do you happen to live in circumstances where you’re “normal” and you don’t need to think about what it’s like to be a tiefling somewhere else? The pressures on a tiefling in Calimshan aren’t going to be the pressures in Narfell or Impiltur or Aglarond or Neverwinter or Cormyr. Farideh’s grown up in a village full of tieflings who fled their home societies and so she’s been bombarded with a mix of internalized racism and kind of passive defiance. That shapes her.
Dragonborn in Djerad Thymar/Tymanther have most of my focus right now, and they actually have a greater risk of falling into the PHB Prototype Trap, because they do come from a really homogenous culture. The culture of DT is hugely structured. You have a place in a clan, which has a place in the whole of society, and signaling where you fit is a big deal. They wear the clan piercings, they have a strict division between adolescence and adulthood based on whether you’ve served in the Lance Defenders or earned your status weapon. There’s a kind of comfort for someone from this world in seeing these indicators, in knowing before you ever speak who someone is. That’s not a pressure that’s familiar in those terms to North American readers, but we might be familiar with the kind of conforming pressures that mean our outward appearance/dress fits us into a mold.
Someone like Mehen who’s clanless, who has no place in society, really agitates people. WHO ARE YOU EVEN? And that in turn agitates Mehen, because he grew up here. He used to have those same reactions. Being who he is, he kind of shrugs it off and gets more and more angry. On the other hand, someone like Kallan--who grew up in the homesteads raising sheep and became a sellsword--hasn’t really felt much pressure for lacking clan piercings. His society has been his family and maybe some far-flung neighbors who all know him personally as So-and-So's boy. Followed by a life where very few people even know to look for piercings. It annoys him to have people act like he’s this unmoored ghost, because this is a new-fangled pressure, but to him, that's just city-folk nuttery.
And then if you take them out of Tymanther, both of them get treated like novelties. Mehen uses that to intimidate people into leaving him alone, mostly. In Ashes of the Tyrant right now, he’s made Brin a sort of figurehead leader of the party, because he’s come to realize humans pay their own kind more fairly.
TL;DR: Think about ways that the character’s personality is shaped by the way the people they regularly interact with treat them.
External-Internal: This is the next step from the above. The people that your non-human characters interact with are going to notice that they’re not human. They will have a variety of opinions on this fact. Showcasing a variety of reactions and interactions helps shape the world the non-human characters live in. Whether that’s not-reacting (“What’ll it be?”), acting SUPER OKAY WITH IT (“I think it’s so cool you have a tail! My babysitter was a tiefling!”), getting skittish (“...Yeah, I’m going to need that coin up front. You know. Just in case.”), being a full-on bigot (“We don’t like your kind around here.”) or anything in between, people are complicated. And showing those interactions and your character’s reaction to those interactions is important. This, IMO, is the best way to display that PHB Prototype: reader's will pick it up in the differences between the expectations and the realities of your character.
Internal-External: This is simpler. It boils down to remembering that physically, these characters have attributes that aren’t human. Farideh and Havilar’s tails. Mehen’s facial structure/teeth. Lorcan’s wings. These are all tools for signaling emotional reactions. Dragonborn in particular are hard to describe in ways that indicate emotional reactions. They don’t have human faces and so they can’t, say, wrinkle their noses or stick out their tongues the way we do or smile or frown in as subtle a way (assuming that your viewpoint character is a human; a dragonborn would likely pick up a lot of nuance a human would miss entirely).
And in a broader sense, just reminding readers that those parts exist (and are absolutely normal to those characters!) makes a difference. See: Farideh's tail when she wakes up with Dahl.
Example: All my dragonborn tap their tongues against the roofs of their mouths when they’re nervous. Because I’ve seen people say that they’re functionally reptiles or functionally monotremes, this is me taking that to the logical step of giving them an enhanced Jacobsen’s organ, which lets them smell better. So, the biz gets tense, you introduce some air to that organ out of reflex, you taste that this dude you’re talking to is nervous, you react accordingly. Nothing more beneficial, really, than reading someone’s body language, but more tailored to a character who experiences the world in a very different body.
External-External: This is the inverse of the above. How do your non-human characters interact with the world beyond? Do they fit? How do they adapt to make themselves fit? What do they do to survive? What kind of jobs might be open to them and what would they never be able or willing to do?
A really obvious, basic example is furniture. Tieflings are going to be really good at sitting down carefully since their tails could easily get in the way. In Fire in the Blood Farideh gets strapped down to a chair and she can’t get comfortable because her tail doesn’t fit. They need room to either let it trail over the back, or to wrap alongside their leg. But they live like this so it’s something they consider—other places aren’t going to think about that. Similarly, dragonborn are sized like very big humans. Imagine going through doorways and using furniture as a 6’8”, 350 lb person. Not everything is going to fit you. So is this the kind of character who brings their own campstool with them? Is this the kind of character who wordlessly breaks off the arm rests of a chair so they can sit comfortably? Do they complain about it or suffer in silence? Do they just stand? Do they sit on the floor?
The takeaway here (but for all of this really) is to put yourself in the shoes of your character as much as possible, and think about them as an individual first and foremost.
Hope that helps!
Best,
Erin
*This is all important for human characters, too, by the way.
EDIT: Because typing fast gives me typos.
|
| ErinMEvans |
Posted - 19 Jan 2015 : 18:33:30
quote:
Originally posted by Entromancer
Erin, I'd like to pick your brain on the writing process for the Brimstone Angels characters. How do you approach writing from the perspectives of the tieflings and dragonborn in such a way that someone couldn't shrug any of these off as being interchangeable with humans?
Oh my god: You've basically unleashed the post-Kraken. Gimme a bit. I have many thoughts. |
| Entromancer |
Posted - 19 Jan 2015 : 01:22:48
Erin, I'd like to pick your brain on the writing process for the Brimstone Angels characters. How do you approach writing from the perspectives of the tieflings and dragonborn in such a way that someone couldn't shrug any of these off as being interchangeable with humans? |
| ErinMEvans |
Posted - 10 Jan 2015 : 07:00:19
quote:
Originally posted by Swordsage
Okay, I'm looking for nuance and came across the scene on p.162 of the hardcover where King Foril is visiting the unconscious Baerovus. When he is talking to Raedra after Erzoured has left he says to her, "Emvar will be a lucky fellow".
That's a strange thing to say given Emvar is his dead older brother. Is this an indication that Foril is "losing it" or was that an error/typo and it should have been a reference to Aubrin?
The Swordsage
Foril accidentally calls Brin "Emvar" several times (e.g. in the Griffon Room when they first find out Irvel's missing). Brin bears a strong resemblance to his grandfather, and Foril doted on his older brother. That connection is very present in his mind, which is why Brin's afraid that the legitimization will end up being pushed forward. But on top of that, yeah, Foril's old and he's tired and his mind's not quite what it used to be, so he slips.
EDIT for clarity. |
| Swordsage |
Posted - 10 Jan 2015 : 03:13:54
Okay, I'm looking for nuance and came across the scene on p.162 of the hardcover where King Foril is visiting the unconscious Baerovus. When he is talking to Raedra after Erzoured has left he says to her, "Emvar will be a lucky fellow".
That's a strange thing to say given Emvar is his dead older brother. Is this an indication that Foril is "losing it" or was that an error/typo and it should have been a reference to Aubrin?
The Swordsage |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 07 Jan 2015 : 23:02:22
I'm glad it's 2015. I just read somewhere it was 2016 |
| ErinMEvans |
Posted - 07 Jan 2015 : 22:30:44
Sorry. I'm a little swamped. In order:
Schreckstoff and The Hooded One: Thank you much for those kind words.
Swordsage: Sorry. >_< I didn't mean to flood you. As someone (Caolin?) referenced upthread for themselves, I don't have a whole lot of people to talk about this stuff with, but I immerse myself in it up to the nose every freaking day. So when it comes to answering questions or correcting misconceptions that might be getting in the way of the story/lore, I don't really have a "low" setting. I just vomit all the research crammed in my head, at as many angles as might possibly be needed. (I think it makes the RPG guys a little skittish. :p) I'm glad you're enjoying a different trip through Cormyr
CorellonsDevout & Caolin: To my knowledge, Ashes of the Tyrant is coming out in Fall of 2015. If it's being held until 2016, I wish someone would tell me because I'd love the extra writing time! |
| Caolin |
Posted - 07 Jan 2015 : 17:52:27
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Erin, I read somewhere that your next book comes out in 2016. Is that true? I don't want to wait that long lol.
I second that. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 03 Jan 2015 : 16:12:25
Erin, I read somewhere that your next book comes out in 2016. Is that true? I don't want to wait that long lol. |
| Swordsage |
Posted - 03 Jan 2015 : 04:52:51
Hi Ms Evans
I'm not sure my comment merited that kind of response. I'm sure you have much better things to do. It was just a comment though, not a criticism of your whole novel or character line.
I realise in hindsight that I'm used to Ed Greenwood writing about Cormyr. You're not him and don't write like him (and that's as it should be) but I realise now that what I was expecting was a small, two paragraph cut away with the Mage Royal turning to the king or to a Highknight or a group of senior War Wizards and saying something along the line of "she appears to be safe, watch her anyway and also watch Raedra who's not as smart as she thinks she is". That's the Cormyr I'm used to reading about, but it appears that all that happened off stage. Might be a reflection on me as a reader. Looking at it, it appears it is. Have to look for more nuance.
Enjoying the book despite myself and my predilections.
The Swordsage |
| The Hooded One |
Posted - 02 Jan 2015 : 23:04:21
Oh, Erin, nicely said.
I burst out laughing before the end of Ganrahast's to-do list.
It shouldn't need saying, but you get the Realms, lady! I know Ed happily re-reads your books and they're by his bedside so he can easily do so, and I love them too.
Please just keep on writing, and I'll keep on reading. 
love,
THO |
| ErinMEvans |
Posted - 02 Jan 2015 : 21:29:34
quote:
Originally posted by Swordsage
I'm a couple of chapters into the latest novel as I'm a Cormyr fan and the teaser chapters made me put down my hard-earned.
What I'm struggling with however is that it seems like being a tiefling is 'no big deal' and that having one access the royal family, even at the demand of a princess, appears to be accompanied with little concern or precautions for safety. I can't imagine the king or the current Mage Royal would be unaware of what is happening and yet if they are, allow it to occur with no thought of securing the princess from potential harm. She's bound to the Overlord of the Hells but she gets access to the royal family as if she's the local seamstress.
I struggled to suspend my disbelief in the circumstances.
The Swordsage
Hi Swordsage,
I have an answer for you, but it's really involved. The short version is that I think you should go back and read those chapters again, because that's not really what's happening.
1. Farideh has been in Suzail for several months, living in the home of the princess’s fiancé who is also an Obarskyr in all but the most technical senses at this point. 100% the war wizards have been checking up on her and Havilar, hence the restrictions she has with Lorcan (can't come in the house, can't come without a disguise, etc.). Are they pushing their luck? Yes, but you’re still talking about the likelihood of a war wizard spying them in the moment that Lorcan activates the portal. Pretty slim, as there are a lot more important things to do than spying.
2. Before Farideh even so much as looks at Raedra, she’s put through a thorough series of tests by three war wizards. They know exactly what she’s capable of and you know what? It’s not really that much. For all Farideh's managed, I think one of her spells was Level 6 in 4E, and while I don’t recall off the top of my head what you had to have to be a war wizard, I strongly suspect it was a paragon path, so Level 11 (noted only for the level discrepancy; I don't know what they'd be in other editions, but it would be similar). Coupled with the fact she doesn’t ping a detect evil spell, and she drops down Ganrahast et al’s list of concerns. Especially when you consider that she’s brought to Raedra after she found a traitor that they missed.
3. “It’s absurd that she didn’t trigger the detect evil spell!” you might be saying (or someone might be saying). But remember:
- Farideh’s not evil. There’s nothing in the rules that says being a warlock makes you automatically evil, and she’s not used her connections to work evil acts. You don’t have to like it, but that agrees with current continuity.
- Farideh and Havilar both have heavy protection spells on them that obscure various detection magics.
- Asmodeus doesn’t seem keen on people finding out that she’s his Chosen. It’s almost as if there were something else going on here. Hint. Hint.
4. All that aside, when she does come into Raedra’s presence, the princess is incredibly protected. Two war wizards and guards against a warlock who’s done nothing to show herself as a threat? Plus the highknights she’s mentioned are frequently watching her just out of sight? Plus the fact that there’s probably more war wizards watching her that she doesn’t know about? Say Farideh is evil and she decides to eldritch blast Raedra: she would be hit by multiple prepared spells long before it hit the shield that is almost certainly protecting the princess*
5. As for why Ganrahast himself isn’t there in that moment, remember he has an enormous to-do list here: - don’t lose war
- keep King Foril safe
- figure out how to wake Prince Baerovus
- find Prince Irvel
- find out what Sulue’s plans were
- keep Raedra and Ospra safe
- keep an eye on Erzoured
- also keep Erzoured safe because he's still an Obarskyr, awful or not
- keep an eye on nobles
[*]run war wizards, etc., etc.
When you get down to trying to keep Raedra from taking guests—and good luck, buddy, she’s not a child—I think even Ganrahast is going to accept that it’s not a threat. While he still feels guilty over not being able to save Foril’s wife, Princess Jemra, in the assassination attempt on Azoun V, there's a point where he's going to have run through everything he can do, and try something else.
6. Additionally, keep in mind that Princess Raedra is a grown woman with a mind of her own. There's a point where ordering her to do things causes more harm than good.
7. Lastly, if you are of the opinion that tieflings should always inspire intense mistrust and panic, then I probably can’t convince you to give my book(s) a chance. But what you see here is the canonical situation in the current Realms: if you’re reasonably worldly, you know tieflings aren’t devils and that’s not a reason to flip out. At this juncture in Suzail, it’s considered kind of a racy fashion among the young and trying-to-look-young to have a tiefling sidepiece. As such, there are a higher proportion of them in the city than in years past and more people are going to be less wigged out (although they're certainly something to stare at and the older nobles are probably largely aghast at what their children and grandchildren are getting up to in the clubs). Given the fact that Farideh's checked out, the biggest threat to Raedra really is what people will say. And so she's disguised.
I’ll close with the note that this book was extensively vetted and fact-checked, not just by WotC’s internal people, but also by the inestimable Brian Cortijo/Garen Thal and Ed himself. I made sure I wrote a book that made both of them happy—that was intrinsic to making this book “a success” in my eyes.
So if you--general you, readers--think you have found a continuity error, I do want to hear it, but I probably have an answer. I thought about this a lot, researched a lot, and I found people who knew their stuff to make sure I was right. I hope this helps you, Swordsage, give the book another chance, but I understand there are elements that aren’t everyone’s cup of tea.
*In the event someone brings up the fact that she gets hit in the fencing scene, let me point out: that’s different. Raedra would have to be hit in order to fence, but I’m sure those magical protections are still in play. Pelia is there for a reason.
Best,
Erin
|
| Swordsage |
Posted - 28 Dec 2014 : 04:59:58
I'm a couple of chapters into the latest novel as I'm a Cormyr fan and the teaser chapters made me put down my hard-earned.
What I'm struggling with however is that it seems like being a tiefling is 'no big deal' and that having one access the royal family, even at the demand of a princess, appears to be accompanied with little concern or precautions for safety. I can't imagine the king or the current Mage Royal would be unaware of what is happening and yet if they are, allow it to occur with no thought of securing the princess from potential harm. She's bound to the Overlord of the Hells but she gets access to the royal family as if she's the local seamstress.
I struggled to suspend my disbelief in the circumstances.
The Swordsage |
| Schreckstoff |
Posted - 28 Dec 2014 : 03:11:57
quote:
Originally posted by ErinMEvans
Fair warning all: I'm going to keep writing about these characters for the last two books. There will still be Asmodean tieflings and warlocks and young women and people who think about their internal emotional states and their relationships with other people. There will also be dragonborn and fiends. You have been warned.
Wouldn't want it any other way. Farideh's saga has been one of the most refreshing reads in Forgotten Realms for a long time.
I've been outspoken on my dislike of Brin before and I'm still not even lukewarm when it comes to him but I'm deeply engrossed in all the other characters and I really hope this book wasn't the last we've heard and seen of Raedra. |
| ErinMEvans |
Posted - 27 Dec 2014 : 02:30:01
quote:
Originally posted by Austin the Archmage
Tell me, what is Azuth's status? I though that he was destroyed by Asmodeus to fuel his ascension to godhood, so the fact that he's still around is news to me.
The situation with Azuth and Asmodeus during the Sundering is the high-level focus of this series. As such, I'm not going to reveal too much.
You can see from this thread that someone who seems to be the Chosen of Azuth has appeared. Other weirdness has accumulated as well which people have speculated on. More information is contained in The Adversary and Fire in the Blood so I'd say read those, or comb their threads. |
| Austin the Archmage |
Posted - 27 Dec 2014 : 01:52:32
Tell me, what is Azuth's status? I though that he was destroyed by Asmodeus to fuel his ascension to godhood, so the fact that he's still around is news to me. |
| Caolin |
Posted - 26 Dec 2014 : 21:39:11
quote:
Originally posted by ErinMEvans
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
Personally I think you could provide some fresh and interesting angles on some old characters....within limits of course.
To be perfectly frank, I don't want those limits. I'm deeply uncomfortable with the idea of picking up a character as well-developed as those. There's no winning. You take them in too new a direction and everyone hates it because they've already fallen in love with those characters as they were. You take them in not-a-new-enough direction and they're dictating what your story can and can't be just by living in it. You're writing a novelization of sorts, and that is just not where my interests lie.
quote:
BTW, thanks for engaging. I hope you don't take anything we say here too personally. For me it's a way of engaging in discussion with people since no one in my personal life shares an interest in these novels. I also really enjoy your work and I've enjoyed every novel you written in the Realms. I think you do the Harpers really well and would love to see you do a more Harper focused story in the future. Maybe a reborn Harpers series!!! I know....a man can dream though can't he? 
I don't take it personally that someone doesn't like my book(s). I also don't really think it's my business, when you get down to it, hence my leaving that part aside. I write 1) what I want to write and 2) what WotC agrees to let me write, (2a. what makes Ed say "I LIKE it!" when I get a chance to tell him and 2b. What keeps selling books). You're right, I'm not going to make everyone happy with every book. I'm sorry it didn't float your boat. I'd say I hope the next one will, but I won't be insulted if you don't like it either. (I might be confused why you picked it up, but hey, it's your time and your money!)
Fair warning all: I'm going to keep writing about these characters for the last two books. There will still be Asmodean tieflings and warlocks and young women and people who think about their internal emotional states and their relationships with other people. There will also be dragonborn and fiends. You have been warned.
I love the Realms and I respect your passion for the Realms. That's all I need to want to read your novels. So bring on the tieflings and the warlocks. I'm dying to know how things turn out for Azuth! I'm also hoping you work Tam and Selune in there somewhere. Selune never gets any action.  |
| ErinMEvans |
Posted - 26 Dec 2014 : 21:06:11
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
Personally I think you could provide some fresh and interesting angles on some old characters....within limits of course.
To be perfectly frank, I don't want those limits. I'm deeply uncomfortable with the idea of picking up a character as well-developed as those. There's no winning. You take them in too new a direction and everyone hates it because they've already fallen in love with those characters as they were. You take them in not-a-new-enough direction and they're dictating what your story can and can't be just by living in it. You're writing a novelization of sorts, and that is just not where my interests lie.
quote:
BTW, thanks for engaging. I hope you don't take anything we say here too personally. For me it's a way of engaging in discussion with people since no one in my personal life shares an interest in these novels. I also really enjoy your work and I've enjoyed every novel you written in the Realms. I think you do the Harpers really well and would love to see you do a more Harper focused story in the future. Maybe a reborn Harpers series!!! I know....a man can dream though can't he?
I don't take it personally that someone doesn't like my book(s). I also don't really think it's my business, when you get down to it, hence my leaving that part aside. I write 1) what I want to write and 2) what WotC agrees to let me write, (2a. what makes Ed say "I LIKE it!" when I get a chance to tell him and 2b. What keeps selling books). You're right, I'm not going to make everyone happy with every book. I'm sorry it didn't float your boat. I'd say I hope the next one will, but I won't be insulted if you don't like it either. (I might be confused why you picked it up, but hey, it's your time and your money!)
Fair warning all: I'm going to keep writing about these characters for the last two books. There will still be Asmodean tieflings and warlocks and young women and people who think about their internal emotional states and their relationships with other people. There will also be dragonborn and fiends. You have been warned. |
| Caolin |
Posted - 26 Dec 2014 : 07:42:42
quote:
Originally posted by ErinMEvans
Yeah, I'm going to pop in here.
* Elminster and Storm are not in Cormyr at this time. I checked. I originally wanted to broach the idea of an Elminster cameo at the end, instead of the Alusair one, but El's got better stuff to do--like fixing the Weave.
* Vangey is still a spider-thing at this point, IIRC. Also there's this line: "Battles just as fierce raged in the tunnels and the sewers, the war wizards proving their value to the realm over and over—not to mention the stranger things that lurked below. Raedra found herself more than once, when confronted with reports of neatly dispatched Shadovar that no force below could claim, thinking of the scowling ghost in the Royal Court and what she might still do for her kingdom." I made that intentionally vague enough to potentially cover Vangerdahast.
* Mirt is arranging Harpers who aren't running under the same network as Dahl and Vescaras. At this point, the two groups are operating separately, possibly eyeing each other (I think the Harpers operating out of Everlund and Waterdeep are eyeing the Dalelands/Cormyrean Harpers anyway). There's no reason they should interact. They literally don't know each other beyond the possblity of reading a name in a report
But ultimately? Those aren't my characters. I don't want to write about them. I don't think my readers really want me to write about them. I doubt Ed really wants me to write with them. . But look: there's nothing to say, for example, Mirt's not doing things in the background, separate from this. It's a big city and a big war. Or Vangey--maybe Vangey's off thwarting something else. Another bit of treachery. Ask Ed for that story. It's not mine to tell.
(I can go on about why I think it would have been a mistake, but there's the purely objective bits.)
This book is literally one of the three longest novels ever published in the Forgotten Realms.
Yes! I drew you out. It's a Festivus miracle.
So to the first point. Thanks for spelling this out for me. I failed to notice two things. The time frame of events and I forgot that Alusair made a cameo. I'm not trying to be a fact checking police. I was merely commenting on the thoughts in my head as I read the book. As for you writing other peoples characters. I see no reason why you couldn't take another character out for a short stroll. Personally I think you could provide some fresh and interesting angles on some old characters....within limits of course.
As to the book length, I find it hard to judge this because I read so slowly. And maybe I've been conditioned looong novels by the Song of Ice and Fire books. Those are beasts comparatively.
BTW, thanks for engaging. I hope you don't take anything we say here too personally. For me it's a way of engaging in discussion with people since no one in my personal life shares an interest in these novels. I also really enjoy your work and I've enjoyed every novel you written in the Realms. I think you do the Harpers really well and would love to see you do a more Harper focused story in the future. Maybe a reborn Harpers series!!! I know....a man can dream though can't he? |
| ErinMEvans |
Posted - 26 Dec 2014 : 05:50:29
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
-I was surprised that there was no mention of Elminster, Mirt, Vangy, or Storm in these novels. They are pretty important players and it's surprising that they wouldn't have played a part in this story even on the periphery.
To be fair, there is precedent for this in previous novels. The Simbul doesn't even get a mention in the Thay novels despite being the ruler of the nation Thay hates the most.
Yeah, I'm going to pop in here.
* Elminster and Storm are not in Cormyr at this time. I checked. I originally wanted to broach the idea of an Elminster cameo at the end, instead of the Alusair one, but El's got better stuff to do--like fixing the Weave.
* Vangey is still a spider-thing at this point, IIRC. Also there's this line: "Battles just as fierce raged in the tunnels and the sewers, the war wizards proving their value to the realm over and over—not to mention the stranger things that lurked below. Raedra found herself more than once, when confronted with reports of neatly dispatched Shadovar that no force below could claim, thinking of the scowling ghost in the Royal Court and what she might still do for her kingdom." I made that intentionally vague enough to potentially cover Vangerdahast.
* Mirt is arranging Harpers who aren't running under the same network as Dahl and Vescaras. At this point, the two groups are operating separately, possibly eyeing each other (I think the Harpers operating out of Everlund and Waterdeep are eyeing the Dalelands/Cormyrean Harpers anyway). There's no reason they should interact. They literally don't know each other beyond the possblity of reading a name in a report
But ultimately? Those aren't my characters. I don't want to write about them. I don't think my readers really want me to write about them. I doubt Ed really wants me to write with them. . But look: there's nothing to say, for example, Mirt's not doing things in the background, separate from this. It's a big city and a big war. Or Vangey--maybe Vangey's off thwarting something else. Another bit of treachery. Ask Ed for that story. It's not mine to tell.
(I can go on about why I think it would have been a mistake, but there's the purely objective bits.)
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
We need either more novels released or for longer story's in the 3-4 books released each year. It seems that they are still on a strict word count.
This book is literally one of the three longest novels ever published in the Forgotten Realms. |
| Caolin |
Posted - 25 Dec 2014 : 17:32:10
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
-I was surprised that there was no mention of Elminster, Mirt, Vangy, or Storm in these novels. They are pretty important players and it's surprising that they wouldn't have played a part in this story even on the periphery.
To be fair, there is precedent for this in previous novels. The Simbul doesn't even get a mention in the Thay novels despite being the ruler of the nation Thay hates the most.
Yeah, but in the Elminster novels they were in the thick of the happenings in Cormyr. I mean, at the very least we should have run into Mirt seeing that he's been setting up new Harper networks. |
| Caolin |
Posted - 25 Dec 2014 : 17:30:45
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
@Caolin: I actually liked the way Erin wove the relationships into the story. I still think Dahl and Fari got together a little fast, but I thought she did a good job of balancing relationships with the action and bigger events going on in the story. Fari and Havi are Chosen, and have a lot of responsibilities, but they are also young women.
Don't get me wrong, Erin is a great story teller and writer. But it's very hard to pen a story that will capture all of your readers. For me, I found myself skimming through most of these parts of the book and I didn't feel like I missed anything major.
Honestly though I'm VERY tired of warlocks and tieflings. They've become the new Drow/Ranger of DnD. Every week at the Encounters game table several people show up with a warlock/tiefling character. I'm constantly in a party with at least 2-3 warlocks. Can't one of these tieflings be a cleric or at least a druid?!.....OK, I went off on a bit of a tangent there. |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 25 Dec 2014 : 05:22:03
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
-I was surprised that there was no mention of Elminster, Mirt, Vangy, or Storm in these novels. They are pretty important players and it's surprising that they wouldn't have played a part in this story even on the periphery.
To be fair, there is precedent for this in previous novels. The Simbul doesn't even get a mention in the Thay novels despite being the ruler of the nation Thay hates the most. |
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 25 Dec 2014 : 05:06:18
quote:
Originally posted by BenN
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
As an aside....does anyone else think that Erin is kinda hot?
Erm.....isn't that a bit of an odd/crass thing to write, seeing as she's no doubt reading this scroll? (and has already posted in it).
I missed this at first, but yeah...you can't say you won't be buying the author's work, and then say the author is hot.
@Caolin: I actually liked the way Erin wove the relationships into the story. I still think Dahl and Fari got together a little fast, but I thought she did a good job of balancing relationships with the action and bigger events going on in the story. Fari and Havi are Chosen, and have a lot of responsibilities, but they are also young women. |
| BenN |
Posted - 25 Dec 2014 : 05:00:24
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
As an aside....does anyone else think that Erin is kinda hot?
Erm.....isn't that a bit of an odd/crass thing to write, seeing as she's no doubt reading this scroll? (and has already posted in it). |
| Fellfire |
Posted - 25 Dec 2014 : 04:10:58
I admit to not having read the entirety of this scroll, but Cale was a smewhat unwilling Chosen of Mask. Even went so far as to stab him. |
| Austin the Archmage |
Posted - 25 Dec 2014 : 03:51:19
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
I'm not fond at all of this idea that someone can be a Chosen without some kind of agreement by the mortal. Not just because I liked War Wizard Ilstan, but because it removes free will from the equation.
Wouldn't an unwilling Chosen be a pretty lousy Chosen? God be all like "Hey, go do this thing" and the Chosen's all like "Geez, get off my back, man." |
| Caolin |
Posted - 24 Dec 2014 : 08:27:03
Just finished last night. The relationship drama in this book made it difficult for me to follow. I found myself skimming a lot of pages to get past this stuff. The middle of the story is the strongest and I really enjoyed the scene with Tiamat. The ending left me completely unsatisfied story-wise, but I felt it was well written.
My take aways:
-I really don't care about Cormyr.
-There are too many relationship arcs going on. I know the Brin/Havi relationship was key to the progression of events as written, but Ms. Evans could have gotten there without that drama. The Faridah/Lorcan/ relashipship is much more interesting since it involves much deeper layers and possibilities. It's much more relateable. No one is relating to spoiled nobles who only marry for status and power.
-I was surprised that there was no mention of Elminster, Mirt, Vangy, or Storm in these novels. They are pretty important players and it's surprising that they wouldn't have played a part in this story even on the periphery.
-We need either more novels released or for longer story's in the 3-4 books released each year. It seems that they are still on a strict word count. |
| Schreckstoff |
Posted - 05 Nov 2014 : 09:08:58
quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
And we know how Germany did it and such an explanation is what I would like to see for the recent war in Cormyr.
Cormyr had a strong and capable army. Why was the army of the purple dragon easily held in check in Sembia? Why did a shade army, neither as strong or terrible as feared, managed to take Marsember (which as the home port of the cormyrean navy should be especially hard to take)?
What were the huge errors that Cormyr made that suddenly turned the war so badly against them? Why was Arabel able to hold and not Marsember? Where did Shade/Sembia suddenly get the troops they could not get in the prior wars (when they were already desperately needed)?
As far as informing about the greater state of things goes, this novels follows the rest of the Sundering novels in teasing and hinting but never telling.
It's telling a great and compelling story on a personal level of the protagonists, but not much about the how&why of Cormyr's current state
Wasn't it a case of fighting on too many fronts, while reading the book it seemed to me as if cormyr's main force was simply engaged in static warfare on one front while the cities made due with minimum garrisons.
Netheril also seems to be a power where indivuduals can act by themselves and amass forces for their personal use. So if a new player entered the battle and went behind the established lines it can be devastating. |
| Arcanus |
Posted - 03 Nov 2014 : 21:28:51
I won't be buying it. So few of the realms authors capture me now. I'm glad the rest of you like it though.
As an aside....does anyone else think that Erin is kinda hot? |
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