| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| PaulSKemp |
Posted - 26 Sep 2011 : 13:45:57
All,
Susan Morris interviewed me on the subject of anti-heroes for Amazon Omnivoracious blog. You might find it of interest.
Link is here: http://www.omnivoracious.com/2011/09/tall-dark-and-heroic-paul-s-kemp-on-how-to-write-antiheroes.html
Paul |
| 29 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Artemas Entreri |
Posted - 13 Oct 2011 : 21:15:00
quote:
Originally posted by PaulSKemp
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
Great stuff Paul. Also, I will be finishing Shadowrealm today...awesome book/series!
Thank you kindly, Entreri. :-)
You are welcome. It is going to be a long wait until your next novel release  |
| PaulSKemp |
Posted - 13 Oct 2011 : 20:48:05
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
Great stuff Paul. Also, I will be finishing Shadowrealm today...awesome book/series!
Thank you kindly, Entreri. :-) |
| Artemas Entreri |
Posted - 13 Oct 2011 : 18:43:26
Great stuff Paul. Also, I will be finishing Shadowrealm today...awesome book/series! |
| Seabus Mythforger |
Posted - 30 Sep 2011 : 21:44:40
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I'm a fan of anti-heroes, sort of. The only thing that sometimes makes me dislike and shun them is their tendency to brood a lot. Brooding is okay, as it is part of what makes one human. But when I see it splashed [uselessly] from one chapter to another, then...
I agree whole-heartedly! Brooding from time to time is part of what makes us human but sometimes it can be a bit much. Looking into the psychological profile of any particular character is what helps us as readers relate to the characters. But when the brooding becomes to much, my brain immediately associates it with books like Twilight and shows like The Vampire Diaries. It's part of why I love Drizzt so much. Yes, he definitely broods (even a bit more than I prefer) but it's not necessarily needless/useless brooding. It helps you understand why he's in a particular place morally. It's part of why I stopped reading Punisher comics. They became too much about what was going on in Frank Castle's head. Then they became too much about just the violence and there hasn't been a decent mix of the two since. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 30 Sep 2011 : 21:24:52
Psychological insight into the conflicts which motivate the central characters is useless? |
| Dennis |
Posted - 30 Sep 2011 : 11:36:52
I'm a fan of anti-heroes, sort of. The only thing that sometimes makes me dislike and shun them is their tendency to brood a lot. Brooding is okay, as it is part of what makes one human. But when I see it splashed [uselessly] from one chapter to another, then... |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 30 Sep 2011 : 06:59:04
Is the opposite an anti-villain? A fellow like Darth Vader perhaps? (And no, I don't mean sissy Anakin, I do mean Vader.)
Or is an anti-villain simply an anti-hero whose morality is a darker tone of grey? Within the context of D&D alignments, could there also be anti-neutral characters? |
| Seabus Mythforger |
Posted - 30 Sep 2011 : 06:32:57
I don't know that Jarlaxle can truly be counted as a villain, anti or otherwise. Neither is he a hero. Jarlaxle so far has played the most gray character I've ever read about. He is very much alike to Lestat from Anne Rice's Vampire Chronicles. They both kind of want to be "good" but they're just really good at being "bad" and they rather like it. They push the limit as far as they can go in one direction and then find a new direction and do the exact same thing. Boundaries are simply obstacles to them. The sooner they can get past them the quicker they are to get bored. To paraphrase a quote from Heath Ledger's take on The Joker, "They're like dogs chasing a car. They wouldn't really know what to do if they caught it."
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| Kilvan |
Posted - 30 Sep 2011 : 02:38:13
I must disagree with both comparaisons with Szass Tam and Karsus, but I won't go into details because I dont want this thread to become about Magneto or any other character. My point is, as Richard and Paul said, some villains, Magneto included, are villains, but not the typical evil-world-conquerer-innocent-killer villain. Psychopaths can make great villains, the Joker, Alex from Clockwork Orange or Voldemort comes to mind. These villains are to evilness what paladins are to goodness.
Anti-heroes, are not-so-shining as paladin, they tend to take obscure paths to achieve goals that end up being good. My idea is that this same reasoning could be applied to some villains, those who are not evil to the core, but who have evil designs. I wondered if it was fair to call these anti-villains.
Some examples: Jarlaxle, Obould Many-Arrows, Big Boss from Metal Gear, Leslat from Interview with a Vampire, Magus from Chrono Trigger, Dexter Morgan (not sure if he is an anti-hero or anti-villain), The phantom of the Opera. I could probably go on. Note that I try not to mix villains who suffered tragedies and turned evil (like most villains from Batman), and villains who are simply not so evil (kinda).
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| Dennis |
Posted - 30 Sep 2011 : 02:26:20
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Karsus is like Magneto. He is not a homosapien, but a homosuperior.
Karsus’s goal didn’t go beyond saving his dying empire. Magneto’s goal, on the other hand, was beyond saving his kind. He wanted to change the whole world--- he wanted to have all non-mutants slaughtered. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 30 Sep 2011 : 02:07:21
Karsus is like Magneto. He is not a homosapien, but a homosuperior. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 30 Sep 2011 : 01:43:26
In some ways Magneto is like Szass Tam. They both want to "change the world" to what's ideal to them. And the means they use are similar.
I agree with Paul that sympathetic villains are the best kind. Most people, I suppose, are sick and tired of the cackling idiot kind of villains. |
| PaulSKemp |
Posted - 29 Sep 2011 : 21:07:56
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
I think Magneto is a villain. But he's been in how many hundreds of stories written by how many different authors? I suspect that whether you think of him as a villain, an antihero, or something else depends on which of those many stories you read, and out of the ones you did read, which you enjoyed the most.
I agree with Richard. I'm not authority on the X-men, but I see Magneto as a villain, just an understandable, even sympathetic one (and aren't those the best kind?). |
| Richard Lee Byers |
Posted - 29 Sep 2011 : 19:57:29
I think Magneto is a villain. But he's been in how many hundreds of stories written by how many different authors? I suspect that whether you think of him as a villain, an antihero, or something else depends on which of those many stories you read, and out of the ones you did read, which you enjoyed the most. |
| PaulSKemp |
Posted - 29 Sep 2011 : 15:33:08
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Paul,
Do you think anti-heroes are meant to have a tragic end?
I don't, no, but I think the best ones have a redemptive end (and that's often a tragic one).
Paul |
| Dennis |
Posted - 28 Sep 2011 : 22:07:21
Paul,
Do you think anti-heroes are meant to have a tragic end? |
| Dennis |
Posted - 28 Sep 2011 : 22:06:08
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
I don't think Karsus qualifies as a villain. He wasn't even evil, just very unwise (and a tad egocentric).
He's become a villain more by circumstance than actual desire to do evil. |
| Kilvan |
Posted - 28 Sep 2011 : 21:47:25
I don't think Karsus qualifies as a villain. He wasn't even evil, just very unwise (and a tad egocentric). |
| Dennis |
Posted - 28 Sep 2011 : 21:40:22
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
Can the concept of anti-hero be applied to villains, like anti-villains? I mean, take Magneto from Marvel, he's a villain all right, but he is in a kinda gray area. He DOES make some sense in his reasoning, and maybe I'd do the same in his shoes. I'm sure I can find more examples, but he is the first that pops to mind.
Karsus. Though I must say he's difficult to classify. He didn't deliberately plan to have thousands of "innocent" people die in his desperate attempt at saving his beloved empire. |
| Kilvan |
Posted - 28 Sep 2011 : 21:10:33
Can the concept of anti-hero be applied to villains, like anti-villains? I mean, take Magneto from Marvel, he's a villain all right, but he is in a kinda gray area. He DOES make some sense in his reasoning, and maybe I'd do the same in his shoes. I'm sure I can find more examples, but he is the first that pops to mind. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 27 Sep 2011 : 21:43:57
quote:
Originally posted by PaulSKemp
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Hey Paul, were you a Stone Cold Steve Austin fan at some point?
Alisttair,
I was not, no.
But...but he is an anti-hero.....he's bald like Erevis Cale...but...but....ah heck  |
| Thelonius |
Posted - 27 Sep 2011 : 17:22:35
A really interesting interview and a nice and accurated description of the anti-hero. Too sad I haven't read the Erevis Cale, as they haven't been released in here  When I think of anti-hero I can't avoid thinking on Hajime Saito from Ruroni Kenshin, curiously enough he didn't search redemption A cool interview that gives some more insight in the anti-hero phenomena. |
| PaulSKemp |
Posted - 27 Sep 2011 : 14:41:03
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Hey Paul, were you a Stone Cold Steve Austin fan at some point?
Alisttair,
I was not, no. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 27 Sep 2011 : 01:48:23
Hey Paul, were you a Stone Cold Steve Austin fan at some point? |
| skychrome |
Posted - 27 Sep 2011 : 01:47:30
Great! More of those types of interviews please!  |
| PaulSKemp |
Posted - 26 Sep 2011 : 23:54:02
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
That's a great interview. Major props!
Cheers
Thanks, Erik. Appreciated.
Paul |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 26 Sep 2011 : 21:08:46
That's a great interview. Major props!
Cheers |
| Seabus Mythforger |
Posted - 26 Sep 2011 : 21:06:57
That's probably a main reason so many of the last few years of The Punisher comics have been horrible. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 26 Sep 2011 : 13:55:50
Excellent, Paul! And good to hear from you again.
I have to quote these:
"The anti-hero is a one-man morality play. Whereas the villain and hero rarely face moral crisis (or when they do, it’s an ultimate moment in their progression as characters), the antihero is the moral crisis."
"... [It’s] more important than ever to take a deep dive into the psychology, to demonstrate the inner conflict. That’s because the contrary impulses inherent in the anti-hero need to make sense to the reader."
So true. I guess that's the reason it's quite a challenge to create anti-heroes. |
