| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Artemas Entreri |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 15:22:52
Hello everyone. I just started reading book 3 of the Haunted Lands trilogy. I love this series so far, but just wanted to get your opinions on how book 3 begins 100 years after book 2. I am only 40 pages in so please don't give anything away about the rest of Unholy. Thanks! |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 14 Oct 2011 : 08:41:01
Nope. Didn’t read BED for reasons you [and I suppose many scribes as well] already know. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 14 Oct 2011 : 05:45:44
I thought you'd already read all the available Sage of Shadowdale novels, Dennis? Although I do recall you excoriated Elminster Must Die with apoplectic vitriol, a little too much Manshoon seasoning for your palette. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 14 Oct 2011 : 04:52:14
And I think she still is. [Speaking of, I'm seriously considering buying Bury Elminster Deep to know how she recovered her powers and what else she's done during and after her nigh-incurable madness.] |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 14 Oct 2011 : 01:26:49
Actually, I didn't enjoy Red Magic at all. Maligor's grand ambitions seemed too simplistic and small-minded; he was even defeated by a handful of icky little Harpers, 'nuff said. Szass Tam was hardly mentioned as being anything more than just another treacherous background-villain Zulkir who's best avoided, albeit one with a lot more gold than any of the others.
In 2E the Simbul had a great many spells, including pretty much all of the metamagic incantrix "school", which could combine, layer, trigger, delay, or alter the casting of other spells. Unleashing stacks of spells or contingencies (along with various other spells to enhance them) with a single word or gesture could be done rather easily. Plus of course she was also powered up in various materials as one of the Seven Sisters, a Chosen of Mystra, Rashemi Witch Queen, and given plenty of unique magics as well. She was something like a 2E version of Larloch, in terms of breaking game mechanics. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 13 Oct 2011 : 20:32:18
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
I know the Symbul had some spell (2nd edition stuff) that allowed 4 spells at once to go off (lower level spells like fireball) with no casting time or verabl/material/somantic components and for max damage. It's why she always won spell duels with the Red Wizards etc. Ah well...the game mechanics and the novels rarely coincide (which is a good thing except when it comes to chain contingency spells on Anzar).
She's called the Witch-Queen for a reason. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 13 Oct 2011 : 20:30:04
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Still, an archmage is expected to have contingencies that do not necessitate the use of spell components, so when he's divested of his robes he still has a fair chance to survive. Like ensorcelled tattoos.
Personally i have never really liked the idea of spell components. Part of what (in my mind) makes wizards awesome is their ability to instantly unleash magical power....not mix together some ingredients, do the Macarena with your hands, and recite the alphabet backwards before the magic is released.
That's my initial reaction when I first immersed into FR fiction. Eventually, though, I got used to the system. |
| Artemas Entreri |
Posted - 13 Oct 2011 : 20:28:10
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
I know the Symbul had some spell (2nd edition stuff) that allowed 4 spells at once to go off (lower level spells like fireball) with no casting time or verabl/material/somantic components and for max damage. It's why she always won spell duels with the Red Wizards etc. Ah well...the game mechanics and the novels rarely coincide (which is a good thing except when it comes to chain contingency spells on Anzar).
Delayed Blast Fireball was always a good one too  |
| Seravin |
Posted - 13 Oct 2011 : 20:21:15
I know the Symbul had some spell (2nd edition stuff) that allowed 4 spells at once to go off (lower level spells like fireball) with no casting time or verabl/material/somantic components and for max damage. It's why she always won spell duels with the Red Wizards etc. Ah well...the game mechanics and the novels rarely coincide (which is a good thing except when it comes to chain contingency spells on Anzar). |
| Artemas Entreri |
Posted - 13 Oct 2011 : 20:13:59
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Still, an archmage is expected to have contingencies that do not necessitate the use of spell components, so when he's divested of his robes he still has a fair chance to survive. Like ensorcelled tattoos.
Personally i have never really liked the idea of spell components. Part of what (in my mind) makes wizards awesome is their ability to instantly unleash magical power....not mix together some ingredients, do the Macarena with your hands, and recite the alphabet backwards before the magic is released. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 13 Oct 2011 : 19:58:08
Still, an archmage is expected to have contingencies that do not necessitate the use of spell components, so when he's divested of his robes he still has a fair chance to survive. Like ensorcelled tattoos. |
| Artemas Entreri |
Posted - 13 Oct 2011 : 19:45:54
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
As I stated before, to show the Zulkir of Evocation having no contingencies on him (which is evocation magic) on himself is ridiculous and horrible writing/contrivance. Ruined the whole series for me.
While I didn't like how his death was shown, I appreciate the author's attempt at justifying Aznar's incapacity to sufficiently protect himself. Torn robes and the loss of components for his most destructive spells.
Perhaps we should take a lesson from Aznar's fate: thinking with our loins can get us into trouble  |
| Dennis |
Posted - 13 Oct 2011 : 19:31:25
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
As I stated before, to show the Zulkir of Evocation having no contingencies on him (which is evocation magic) on himself is ridiculous and horrible writing/contrivance. Ruined the whole series for me.
While I didn't like how his death was shown, I appreciate the author's attempt at justifying Aznar's incapacity to sufficiently protect himself. Torn robes and the loss of components for his most destructive spells. |
| Artemas Entreri |
Posted - 13 Oct 2011 : 19:14:32
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Indeed. Being the Zulkir of Evocation, if it came down to it, he could have easily leveled his own tower by unleashing his most potent spells.
Did Aznar Thrul get any page time in other Realms books?
Sadly, no. But if you are interested in the other zulkirs and Thay itself, I would recommend Red Magic by Jean Rabe and The Simbul's Gift by Lynn Abbey. The former features Szass Tam and the then Zulkir of Transmutation, Maligor, who sought to rule Thay alone. The Simbul's Gift, obviously, features Alassra, but Lauzoril and Mythrellan also had a fair amount of screen time, as they had somehow, as Fate's jest, a certain connection to the Simbul's past.
Yeah Red Magic was great but i didn't enjoy the Simbul's Gift as much. Different writing style i guess. |
| Seravin |
Posted - 13 Oct 2011 : 18:53:29
Actually, the Simbul's Gift has the most of Aznar Thrul of all the books. He is pretty bad ass in it too, and is shown to be very devious, plotting, cautious and smart. He lets spies/traitors think they have the best of him and then crushes them when they finally reveal themselves.
As I stated before, to show the Zulkir of Evocation having no contingencies on him (which is evocation magic) on himself is ridiculous and horrible writing/contrivance. Ruined the whole series for me. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 13 Oct 2011 : 17:05:47
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Indeed. Being the Zulkir of Evocation, if it came down to it, he could have easily leveled his own tower by unleashing his most potent spells.
Did Aznar Thrul get any page time in other Realms books?
Sadly, no. But if you are interested in the other zulkirs and Thay itself, I would recommend Red Magic by Jean Rabe and The Simbul's Gift by Lynn Abbey. The former features Szass Tam and the then Zulkir of Transmutation, Maligor, who sought to rule Thay alone. The Simbul's Gift, obviously, features Alassra, but Lauzoril and Mythrellan also had a fair amount of screen time, as they had somehow, as Fate's jest, a certain connection to the Simbul's past. |
| Artemas Entreri |
Posted - 13 Oct 2011 : 14:25:32
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Indeed. Being the Zulkir of Evocation, if it came down to it, he could have easily leveled his own tower by unleashing his most potent spells.
Did Aznar Thrul get any page time in other Realms books? |
| Dennis |
Posted - 13 Oct 2011 : 03:13:03
Indeed. Being the Zulkir of Evocation, if it came down to it, he could have easily leveled his own tower by unleashing his most potent spells. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 13 Oct 2011 : 01:33:58
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I would have to disagree. He killed Zola, the new Zulkir of Necromancy, just because he could not stand having someone so incompetent as part of the Zulkirate. He even said if she could not protect herself from a low-level demon, then she didn’t deserve to be their peers. [And of course, my favorite, Lallara, couldn’t agree more.]
I really enjoyed this scene and thought it was a fine portrayal of the Thayan Zulkir society. I 100% agree with Nevron: if you can't defend yourself against a simple demon, then you have no right being a Zulkir. Good stuff
Yeah, I did love this, and after the reminder... yeah, I do recall being irked with Aznar Thrul being killed by some demon vampire and thinking exactly what you said "what, this guy has no contingencies?" It would have been so much more believable if for instance they'd shown him get his contingencies blown in another encounter of some sort. |
| Artemas Entreri |
Posted - 12 Oct 2011 : 14:35:36
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
lol, we're all in evil agreement that Zola's murder was perfectly reasonable.
I knew my alignment long before I joined Candlekeep.
I always want the bad guys to win, the good guys are just too boring and predictable for me. 90% of my D&D characters were evil |
| Dennis |
Posted - 12 Oct 2011 : 14:30:16
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I would have to disagree. He killed Zola, the new Zulkir of Necromancy, just because he could not stand having someone so incompetent as part of the Zulkirate. He even said if she could not protect herself from a low-level demon, then she didn’t deserve to be their peers. [And of course, my favorite, Lallara, couldn’t agree more.]
I really enjoyed this scene and thought it was a fine portrayal of the Thayan Zulkir society. I 100% agree with Nevron: if you can't defend yourself against a simple demon, then you have no right being a Zulkir. Good stuff
Lallara weren't without sweet words for Zola. Here's something from Undead:
quote:
"The dregs of your order elected you," Lallara snapped, "after the lich led all the competent necromancers into the north. So I suggest you pay careful heed to whatever your seniors on the council advise, and graciously accept any decision this body may happen to reach. Otherwise, if we do invite Szass Tam back, and he resents you spending the last ten years in his chair, you can contend with his displeasure without any support from the rest of us."
|
| Dennis |
Posted - 12 Oct 2011 : 14:26:59
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
lol, we're all in evil agreement that Zola's murder was perfectly reasonable.
I knew my alignment long before I joined Candlekeep. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 12 Oct 2011 : 14:06:36
lol, we're all in evil agreement that Zola's murder was perfectly reasonable. |
| Artemas Entreri |
Posted - 12 Oct 2011 : 14:03:44
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I would have to disagree. He killed Zola, the new Zulkir of Necromancy, just because he could not stand having someone so incompetent as part of the Zulkirate. He even said if she could not protect herself from a low-level demon, then she didn’t deserve to be their peers. [And of course, my favorite, Lallara, couldn’t agree more.]
I really enjoyed this scene and thought it was a fine portrayal of the Thayan Zulkir society. I 100% agree with Nevron: if you can't defend yourself against a simple demon, then you have no right being a Zulkir. Good stuff |
| Dennis |
Posted - 12 Oct 2011 : 12:55:59
Samas hardly care about anything except filling his big belly. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 12 Oct 2011 : 12:37:49
My favourite is (or was) Mythrellan, although I admit I've always thought Nevron was a really cool manly name and of course Szass is the most decidedly interesting as a character.
Murder is definitely evil, granted. Yet I don't think Zulkirs assassinating their own peers (especially those they perceive as incompetent inferiors) is as darkly damning as some of the other things they do. No doubt Zola would've been killed by some other Zulkir(s) in short order anyhow, she seemed to just be a sacrificial game piece, perhaps even a space-filling decoy appointed indirectly by Szass.
Incidentally, I agree that the manner of her death indicated her unworthiness for the station. Nevron was just the quickest gun in the room, even if Samas might've gotten the kill instead had his mouth not been full. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 12 Oct 2011 : 12:26:11
I would have to disagree. He killed Zola, the new Zulkir of Necromancy, just because he could not stand having someone so incompetent as part of the Zulkirate. He even said if she could not protect herself from a low-level demon, then she didn’t deserve to be their peers. [And of course, my favorite, Lallara, couldn’t agree more.] |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 12 Oct 2011 : 12:05:45
While Nevron was a Zulkir, and I daresay sometimes perhaps even the most competent and ballsy bastard within the exiled Zulkirs group, and was of course a busy fellow constantly surrounded by bound fiends and conjured minions ... he just wasn't really all that evil. I don't really understand how RLB could describe such excellent evil in other characters, notably Szass Tam, and yet portray the other Zulkirs as something like a bunch of impotent gossipy squabbling angst-filled teenagers.
Nevron in the novels wasn't particularly evil. Rather tame and predictable, actually, I hate to admit that I found corpulently gluttonous Samas Kul far more ambitious, treacherous, and refreshingly EVIL than dull old Nevron. Says a lot when you think the tattoos are more interesting than the person wearing them.
So, insofar as evil goes ... Nevron wouldn't last more than a tenday as a mane on a plane. Something bigger and badder would eat him or kick him around for sport because of his uniquely annoying combination of squishy passivity and obnoxious impudence. Quite unlikely Nevron would survive, let alone be able to promote himself enough to escape from his own Hells ... and it's not like he'd have anything worth offering to fiends who could on a whim decide to snack on his mane-flesh eternal soul and all the secrets it contains. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 12 Oct 2011 : 08:44:55
Yaphyll sent half of her self into the future when she divined the SP.
Nevron might have managed to make himself inconspicuous in Hell during his existence as a mane and eventually regained his real form and translated back to Faerun. |
| MrHedgehog |
Posted - 12 Oct 2011 : 08:33:46
Which Zulkirs might have survived?
Mythrell'aa might never have actually died, as a master illusionist she could have hid her tracks.
Lallara could have somehow returned to her fortress(es) in Amn.
Lauzoril simply fell off a cliff, and could have contingencies in place to allow him to survive... |
| Dennis |
Posted - 10 Sep 2011 : 05:26:23
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Spoilers:Yes, Szass Tam grew in power from the time they had that convocation. But so did his fellow zulkirs. The zulkirs were all prepared to kick his ass and did work in concert, yet he still managed to kill them all [and he didn't even need the element of surprise to do so]... I liked that battle because it was truly epic and described in artful and tasteful manner [a signature of Richard], yet I didn't like the result that much. I just take it as consolation that Richard said some of the zulkirs might have survived.
Edit: Placed spoiler alert and changed font color. Sorry, entreri3478, I hope you didn't read it.]
Just finished the book. Spoiler: Loved the end battle and awesome display of power on Tam's part. I especially enjoyed when he turned Nevron into a Mane. Also, the way this series has ended leaves it open for a nice follow up trilogy 
Indeed. Unfortunately, Richard said the Brotherhood of the Griffon would not return to Thay so soon... If someone else gets to write a follow-up, probably using heroes other than the BotG, I hope he'd give it justice. [Though of course, I'd still want Richard to write it.] |
