| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| DourdenAdam |
Posted - 09 Jan 2011 : 09:40:40
Alright, I just finished this book not too long ago. Now, Dahlia seems to be "good" but, am I the only one who found it painfully obvious that R.A Salvatore is trying to set up some sort of romantic intrest between Drizzt and her?
As well, what do you think of Artemis reappearing under a new name and seemingly a lot weaker than he was before spellplague hit? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Chosen of Asmodeus |
Posted - 14 Feb 2011 : 22:23:53
Not to mention I wasn't overly taken with the fact that the first openly bisexual character in RAS's books was a rape-victim, a serial killer, and a rapist herself. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that homosexuals and bisexuals should be potrayed in a universally positive light; they're people just like anyone else and are capable of the same range of moral fiber, but it still left something of a sour taste in my mouth, reeking of unfortunate implications. |
| BlackAce |
Posted - 12 Feb 2011 : 18:45:35
To be fair to Chosen he does have a point in that it's not so much what Dahlia does as how it's decribed. I haven't read the seen thoroughly or recently enough to feel in a position to comment. But Dahlia's not the first character to do this. In fact, Durham Red, (those of you who are CBT regulars will be familiar with my avatar,) was notorious for launching assaults half-naked. It wasn't done to tittilate (no doubt it had that side-effect for the audience) but because her opponents would need time to recognise a half-naked woman as a threat and react. It very rarely brough her more than half a second but that was usually enough to get the drop on her targets. |
| Chosen of Asmodeus |
Posted - 06 Feb 2011 : 20:37:39
*puts his hands up in surrender* Alright. I know better than to engage an enemy with such overwhelming numbers. I surrender. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 06 Feb 2011 : 13:10:13
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've not read the book in question, so I've no commentary to add on it. But I'll add something to BEAST's post: A woman using her sex appeal could use it for other reasons than trying to lull people into a relationship, feigned or real. Sex appeal can be a huge distraction -- perhaps not in combat, but in many other ways. The sex appeal card could be played to distract from something the woman is doing, be it political, economic, or something else. If you're busy ogling a girl's cleavage, you're less likely to notice her politically outmanuevering you, or shorting you in an economic deal, or even stealing from you. Sex appeal could also be used to distract from other things about the woman -- perhaps covering up perceived character flaws, and/or causing her intelligence to be underestimated until it's too late.
Case in point:
- Lady Dahlia is said to have used her sex appeal to inspire other members of the Thayan aristocracy with lust, awe, or jealousy (Gauntlgrym, P1:C1:p25).
- And Lady Sylora declares that Dahlia had coaxed all of her victims into vulnerable positions before killing them (Gaunt., P1:C1:p31).
It appears that Dahlia had ulterior motives with all of her named lovers/victims:
- Lady Cahdamine - Dahlia might've assumed her mentor's rank and status in the Thayan court by offing her.
- Dor'crae - Dahlia rolled around in the hay with her vampire boy toy, but only after demanding that he provide her intel on the lingering magic of the ruined Luskan Hosttower. The promising mission that arose from this intel earned Szass Tam's intervention against Sylora's desire for immediate vengeance against Dahlia.
- Themerelis - Sylora sent this human barbarian to spy on Dahlia and her pending mission to Luskan, and Sylora figured that the way he was able to get so much of said info was because Dahlia had seduced him, just to enrage Sylora! For all we know, Dahlia might've used Themerelis as a double-spy, turning him against Sylora.
- Borlann the Crow - Dahlia thought she looked better in his cloak of transformation than he did, anyway!
|
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 06 Feb 2011 : 07:52:47
Yeah, I'll go with Wooly and BEAST on that. As a woman myself (I know- shocking, isn't it? :P ) I have personally used sex-appeal on at least one occasion that led to a serious distraction for a guy. (In this case, a particular guy I was very into was so distracted by low-cut cleavage at eye-level as I sat on the arm of his seat while watching him in a chess game that he, um, sort of lost the game. Unintentional on my part, but it certainly DOES work, lol!) And I've done it in stories, too. One tale I've done had a young fellow (my drow bard, actually) so distracted by a "Gypsy" dancer's amorous advances after he had been "admiring" her performance (and cleavage and other "assets"- she had nothing on under her skirt and kicked up obscenely high during her dance) that he failed to notice that her hand on his leg was heading for his money-pouch until it was nearly too late. So yes, it certainly CAN happen. Just like there are women in RL that use their sex-appeal to get what they want from men all the time. Granted, I'm not entirely sure how this would affect a guy during a fight, but think of the scene in Mask of Zorro where he and Elena are fencing, and he keeps getting distracted by her and vice-versa all through the fight. Never mind that there is already some sexual attraction going on by that point- they simply can't help having a reaction to each other.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 05 Feb 2011 : 04:34:14
I've not read the book in question, so I've no commentary to add on it. But I'll add something to BEAST's post: A woman using her sex appeal could use it for other reasons than trying to lull people into a relationship, feigned or real. Sex appeal can be a huge distraction -- perhaps not in combat, but in many other ways. The sex appeal card could be played to distract from something the woman is doing, be it political, economic, or something else. If you're busy ogling a girl's cleavage, you're less likely to notice her politically outmanuevering you, or shorting you in an economic deal, or even stealing from you. Sex appeal could also be used to distract from other things about the woman -- perhaps covering up perceived character flaws, and/or causing her intelligence to be underestimated until it's too late. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 04 Feb 2011 : 23:13:36
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
Ok. Admittedly I didn't give the [...] scene as detailed a read as I should have because at this point reading Salvatore's [...] scenes is better than warm milk or counting sheep to me[...].
Don't take this personally, but sometimes I get the impression that this is how lots of people read most of Salvatore's books. And so, they similarly miss the point. 
quote:
I still refuse to believe that any woman is so hot as to allow any serious advantage in a life or death fight against anyone who knows what they're doing.
Granted.
Perhaps Dahlia also carries an item of sexual distraction, in addition to her provocative dress? We know she carries the enchanted staff, and the brooch which protects her against undead. Maybe she carries another item of special benefit to her in this way, which she doesn't make as conspicuous as the earrings? Hells, maybe the earrings do double duty, in this capacity?
(EDIT: After initially posting this, I remembered that Dahlia does indeed possess something of this sort. Her magical, shapeshifting, woad-plant head tattoos are said to be able to mesmerize helplessly a man or woman with lust.)
quote:
[...] I can't understand how someone can be so fixated on it as to ignore a flail/staff/spear/whatever Dahlia's ridiculous weapon happens to be at any given moment hurtling towards their skull.
But were we ever told that that actually happened?
Certainly Barrabus didn't ignore a weapon hurtling at him in order to notice her cleavage. He hurtled a weapon at her, and only then did he notice her cleavage!
Perhaps Dahlia shows off her stuff in order to put folks back on their heels, and so, it's not that they ignore the weapon enroute to its destination, but rather, they fail to ever notice?
More likely, her sex appeal is used to lull people into longterm erotic/romantic-erotic relationships, and in a forseeable vulnerable state under such conditions, the weapon only comes into play against her lovers by surprise, and they are caught in a state of shock. Think of a black widow who wears a lacy little number to get her lover in bed, but when he's asleep, she busts out the BFG, or a big friggin' knife, or whatever.
Some people are willing to play with a black widow, even though they know there's a gun or a knife somewhere in the vicinity. |
| Chosen of Asmodeus |
Posted - 04 Feb 2011 : 17:05:56
Ok. Admittedly I didn't give the fight scene as detailed a read as I should have because at this point reading Salvatore's fight scenes is better than warm milk or counting sheep to me, so the pause and circling offer a space for that to come into effect.
I still refuse to believe that any woman is so hot as to allow any serious advantage in a life or death fight against anyone who knows what they're doing. The only reason eyes should linger on exposed chest or thigh would be to target them; because that's all showing skin does. It creates a nice target to sink a blade into.
I don't know. Maybe I'm just so desensitized by our modern society and all the bare flesh it has to offer that I can't understand how someone can be so fixated on it as to ignore a flail/staff/spear/whatever Dahlia's ridiculous weapon happens to be at any given moment hurtling towards their skull. That is a much more interesting sight to focus on, in my opinion. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 23:14:02
Methinks thou protest to excess, Oh Master Chosen of Asmode...us. 
If you go back an re-read the passage, Barrabus watches Dahlia fight some minor Netherese warrior and quickly surmises that he does not wish to fight the elf straight up, because of her strange weapon. He then gets cocky and determines that he will not have to, for he believes that he will be able to take her by surprise, instead. Barrabus goes chasing after her through the Neverwinter Wood, and assumes that he can kill her in one move. But he turns out to be wrong, and she is waiting for him. Scrambling to recover, he throws his poisoned dagger at her, and they separate, to begin circling each other.
It's at this point, during a brief break in the action, that Barrabus takes a moment to scan the seductive elf up and down, and he notices just how hot she really is. He is drawn to her appearance, and he has to focus in order to rise above the distraction.
After some scant witty repartee, we are then told that Barrabus has blocked out all of her distractions, and they resume fighting.
Some thoughts on the scene follow:
- Apparently, Barrabus's cockiness prevents him from noticing Dahlia's sexy appearance initially. He observes her fighting ability and bizarre weapon from a distance, but he is oblivious to her beauty and provocative looks. It is only when they get up close and personal that he finally sees what she wants men to see.
- It's easy to interpret the leering moment as taking longer than just a moment, but I don't think that we were meant to. It's a just a quick break in the action, while the combatants are both regathering their wits.
- As a fighter, Barrabus is probably trying to notice everything about the elf which she might use as a weapon. Her sex appeal is one such thing, and it's just as likely to catch the eye as a flash of shiny bling that might be a blade hilt.
|
| Chosen of Asmodeus |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 12:59:51
Oh, that's not nice. I prefer to think of myself as an extraplanar peacebringer bringing order to the multiverse.
Even if I have to choke the hell out of it. |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 02:59:46
Noted, you infernal tyrant, you. 
Cheers |
| Chosen of Asmodeus |
Posted - 01 Feb 2011 : 20:25:36
I do recognize distraction as being a vital part of combat. And if Dahlia was presented that way and less "Damn she's hot; I should focus on killing these cultists, but I can't help but look over there", I wouldn't have a problem with it, at least not as much.
Part of my problem is that I know RAS is a better writer than that. He's used distraction tactics in combat scenes effectively and realisticly in the past. The scene where Obould kills Drizzt's elf friend by blinking out the flames on his sword, for instance. It just seems juvinile for him to be relying on this. Dahlia really reads like the kind of character I'd expect a 15 year old boy playing world of warcraft on an rp server to be playing, only with a better vocabulary. My two cents, anyway. |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 01 Feb 2011 : 16:31:06
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
Also, what about personal taste? You bring up your wife, who I'm sure is a perfectly attractive woman. I'm also sure I could find a dozen people who would disagree. No offense made, just making the point that people have different tastes and standards of beauty.
Oh, that was me following the married-man code and avoiding the implication that I check out strange women with swords.
As I said above, how attractive the person is to you in specific is not the key--the key is it being an unexpected appeal to your sexual impulses. Which I know can and does work, though not in every instance.
If a fantasy swordswoman is going around seducing every opponent she ever faces which how hawt she looks in her outfit (and there isn't rule-breaking magic involved), then that's kinda ridiculous.
Cheers |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 01 Feb 2011 : 16:27:35
Oh, I'm not arguing that you should accept it without a grain of salt or that you should like it (your own taste is, obviously, your own). Nor do I approve of the "hot swordswoman" phenomenon generally: I personally think relying on your physical attractiveness as a shield (CHA bonus!) is completely and utterly insane. (Which, generally speaking, is a reason for it to work: the unexpected is often successful.)
The core of my argument is that distracting an opponent is a key part of fighting, and using your body to do so is a perfectly acceptable strategy. It may work, it may not--it should not consistently work the same way on everyone you fight. Regardless, if you're going to tart it up, that very well might distract an opponent when the fight begins (who is as likely to laugh at your ridiculous attire as find you attractive)--and winning those first couple passes might be all you need.
I don't think of it in terms of attraction, really--I think only of the distraction of the unexpected. Going from your own point, when you're in a life and death fight, the LAST THING you expect your opponent to do is flash a little skin. It really can and does break up your flow, whether you're attracted to that person or not. (Also, there's no reason not to check out an attractive person fighting--except for defending yourself from said person or others.)
And yes, fencing is a sport, wherein the goal is not to kill your opponent by any means necessary but rather score hits that simulate killing hits (that's how fencing works), but that doesn't invalidate my point. Distracting one's opponent is as valid a strategy either way--the stakes are just higher when it means life or death. So it makes it less likely that you will try something insane like flashing your assets and hoping your opponent is stunned into making a mistake.
As to whether it's acceptable in a fantasy novel, well, for me that depends on how it's handled. If it's something the fighter is actively doing (equivalent to feinting against a particular opponent), that's one thing--if it's just an uncanny charm that isn't explained as a magical effect, that's another.
The sexism thing is TOTALLY reasonable. No argument on that point.
I do think that generally speaking, in terms of attraction, men are much more visually inclined than women. I would venture that women are much more likely to be distracted based on their feelings for an opponent (this would be the Buffy v. Angel argument). This isn't me being sexist--this is my observation about the way we seem to be wired.
Cheers |
| Chosen of Asmodeus |
Posted - 01 Feb 2011 : 03:22:23
Breaking this up due to character limit.
Also, what about personal taste? You bring up your wife, who I'm sure is a perfectly attractive woman. I'm also sure I could find a dozen people who would disagree. No offense made, just making the point that people have different tastes and standards of beauty. Would a homosexual man be immune to Dahlia's distraction methods? Would a heterosexual woman? What about the asexual? What about people who prefer heavy women? Or (much) older women? Maybe I'm applying realworld thinking to a fantasy setting, and in many cases that is a mistake; but I believe that the universal truth of attraction, that truth being "to each their own", should apply in fantasy.
Another problem I have with it is that it is a double dose of sexism. The woman becomes an object for the course of the fight, the man becomes a deer caught in the headlights, and I am unaware of any situation in which a woman has had the same reaction to a man in a fight. If I'm wrong, please correct me. |
| Chosen of Asmodeus |
Posted - 01 Feb 2011 : 03:00:53
Ever hear people argue about superman and say they can accept that a man can fly, lift buildings, and shoot lazers out of his eyes, but not that he can fool everyone around him to his identity based off of a pair of glasses and some hair gel? I can accept all the trappings of a fantasy setting, but this is superman's glasses to me.
Not to take away from any of the discipline that goes into fencing(i've been friends with a few fencers, myself), but that is a sport, not a fight to the death. And I'm not saying a person cannot be distracted in a fight. The eye is naturally drawn to movement.
And admittedly, I don't know about this from personal experience as I've never gotten into a knock down drag out fight with a super hot woman. But I have to believe that if I were in a fight with a woman with lightning flails, I wouldn't have my eyes glued to her chest, regardless of how low the cut of her shirt is. |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 01 Feb 2011 : 01:49:56
Ed's weighed in on the whole "how do elves mature in the Realms" discussion. As I recall, he was a proponent of the approach wherein elves reach sexual maturity at the same time human children do, but in elven society they don't reach emotional maturity until adulthood (c. 100 years). It seems reasonable that elves raised outside of a conventional elven homeland/setting might mature emotionally at much faster (or I guess slower, hypothetically) rates.
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
The suggestion that men are such slaves to their sexuality as to stare into a woman's cleavage like dear in the headlights during a life and death struggle is nothing short of offensive
Wh-what? I'm sorry, I was staring at that elf's cleavage. You know, the one with the sword. 
I don't know if you should take such offense to this, and neither do I know if it's really all that unreasonable.
Firstly, you're applying a RL standard to a fantasy story, which in itself should give us pause. Fantasy is allowed to be over-the-top and exaggerated--that's part of the allegory. The fighting moves people pull off in some of these novels are often impossible to emulate in real life, and yet no one complains. It's part of the point of fantasy.
Secondly, let's make sure we're clear here about the RL standard we're applying. Human beings ARE slaves to their impulses (sexuality being one of the top mistresses, as it were). That doesn't mean being stunned at the sight of--OMG! Breasts!--but yeah, you can be thrown off by the physical appeal of your opponent.
As a swordsman myself, I can attest that distracting your opponent (whether by feinting or, in theory, by flashing) is certainly a valid strategy, and I see no reason that a beautiful woman wouldn't be able to use her physical assets to that purpose. If I was fencing a woman and all of a sudden her "natural weapons" came out, you can bet I'd be distracted--startled at the very least.
Heck, sometimes when I fence, I'm distracted by female fencers who are completely covered up and not showing even a little bit of skin. My wife is EXTREMELY sexy when she fences, and she isn't doing it on purpose. It's just the way hormones work.
Then again, it isn't the sort of thing that a fencer (or any sort of fighter) should try repeatedly on the same opponent, if only because you shouldn't keep trying the same thing over and over. Duels are about adaptation and keeping your foe guessing.
As for this specific example:
Should Dahlia's style have worked on Drizzt? Well sure--I mean, the guy's so repressed that you could work him over with a good ankle flashing.
Should it have worked on Entreri? That's more debatable. Guy's solid as a rock.
Also remember that we're dealing with a fantasy setting in which certain races (and elves are a likely suspect) do indeed have otherworldly appeal and charm. I think that leaves plenty of space for reasonable doubt.
Cheers |
| Chosen of Asmodeus |
Posted - 31 Jan 2011 : 16:26:41
Something else regarding Dahlia. She possesses a trait that I've seen in roleplay before, and that I absolutely loathe. She uses her physical beauty to distract opponents in combat, getting them to lower their guard. She is so sexy, that even Artemis can't help but check her out during their fight.
I find this notion personally insulting. The suggestion that men are such slaves to their sexuality as to stare into a woman's cleavage like dear in the headlights during a life and death struggle is nothing short of offensive. Don't get me wrong; a beautiful woman can wrap a man around her finger without problem. And if she were say, an assassin using her *ahem* charms to distract her target so they didn't see the knife slipping towards their ribs, that would be fine. But in a straight up, heated fight, the fact that she has a low cut top, slits in her skirt to show some thigh, and knee high boots, is not going to work. Especially not on a trained and disciplined fighter. |
| Chosen of Asmodeus |
Posted - 31 Jan 2011 : 16:14:45
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Actually, it would make him more like 13. Yes, there IS some official material about that- in Daughter of the Drow, Liriel at 40 was described as looking about 15. So a 12 year old elf would be- what? 6? does not seem likely, and I also remember reading in one of the sources (Might have been Complete Elves) that they do not reach age of conception until around 100. That's a LOOONG time to hit puberty!! The biology is there, if you know where to look.
I'm about to disgust everyone in this thread and forum, but in the real world there is a record of a four year old girl concieving and giving birth to a healthy son. Best not to think too much about that. But, point being, while incredibly rare, it is possible. |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 29 Jan 2011 : 05:53:03
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
[quote]Originally posted by Ecaporaso
She is introduced as a very good fighter in 1451 DR The year of knowledge unearthed(I do not recall them telling us exactly how much time had passed since she was attacked by Alegni), and only meets Barrabus/Entreri in 1462 DR the Year of Elves weeping 11 years later.
In Part 1 (1451-'52 DR), the text tells us that the attack took place a decade before. Since she was 12 when attacked, that makes her 22 in Gaunt., P1.
She spent the last 6 years in Thay. That leaves us with 4 years unaccounted for immediately after the attack, and before she went to Thay.
Yes, in Part 1 she was only 22 and already a pretty good fighter(Much like Drizzt could already outfight half the academy at age 20 according to Zak). However, 11 more years passed before she fought Barrabus/Entreri, making her 33. A nice round number considering Drizzt had been fighting 400 year old Zak evenly by age 30 after his time in the Academy.
Strangely, one players handbook source I read states that Elves mature at roughly the same rate as humans, but are not emotionally considered past adolescence until the age of 110.
This unfortunately runs contradictory to the chapters on Half Elves so I am not sure if I can take it seriously.
It also states that Unlike humans, elves do not age dramatically as their lifespan comes to a close with the most obvious changes being a change in hair color, alternatively graying or darkening. Most elves remain healthy and full of life up until their death.
That end part kind of explains to me how Malice at age 500 still seemed like a young promising Matron Mother, or how Zak at age 400 seemed to be showing no signs of slowing down. |
| Lady Fellshot |
Posted - 29 Jan 2011 : 04:34:09
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Actually, it would make him more like 13. Yes, there IS some official material about that- in Daughter of the Drow, Liriel at 40 was described as looking about 15. So a 12 year old elf would be- what? 6? does not seem likely, and I also remember reading in one of the sources (Might have been Complete Elves) that they do not reach age of conception until around 100. That's a LOOONG time to hit puberty!! The biology is there, if you know where to look.
IIRC, the age of responsibility for elves is one century. It would make sense for elves to have a longer childhood than humans, but it would also make evolutionary sense for that childhood to not be super long.
In addition, it also would make a lot of sense if a female elf's menses were on a longer cycle through their fertile years (say over three months rather than one) and that it would be harder for a female elf to get pregnant in the first place. If a species has a longer lifespan and takes care of their young, that species usually produces less young than one that has a shorter lifespan. You'd run out of resources too quickly otherwise.
Then again, I think that all of Dahlia's childhood should have been left out until it was actually important to the story, but narrative logic would have been grossly out of place in that book. |
| BEAST |
Posted - 28 Jan 2011 : 23:47:49
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
[quote]Originally posted by Ecaporaso
She is introduced as a very good fighter in 1451 DR The year of knowledge unearthed(I do not recall them telling us exactly how much time had passed since she was attacked by Alegni), and only meets Barrabus/Entreri in 1462 DR the Year of Elves weeping 11 years later.
In Part 1 (1451-'52 DR), the text tells us that the attack took place a decade before. Since she was 12 when attacked, that makes her 22 in Gaunt., P1.
She spent the last 6 years in Thay. That leaves us with 4 years unaccounted for immediately after the attack, and before she went to Thay. |
| The Red Walker |
Posted - 28 Jan 2011 : 18:24:41
quote:
Originally posted by Ecaporaso
I just finished Gauntlgrym, and I'm ashamed to admit that I did not consider that Barrabus might be Artemis - instead, as I read, my observations went something like this:
"Barrabus was in Calimport? C'mon, Salvatore, couldn't you give us a different assassin-producing city?"
and,
"A wall of ash? I guess that's a more common sword enchantment than I originally thought."
Of course, given the observations others made in this thread, it seems much more likely that Barrabus IS Artemis instead of just a very similar character.
Some qualms, though:
I vaguely recall that the blade in question was described as a 2-handed greatsword. Was not Charons Claw a 1-handed long sword?
Also, wasn't Charons Claw paired with a magic-absorbing gauntlet? I recall that this gauntlet was destroyed during a battle with a lich, but I thought Jarlaxle restored it.
Finally, how is it that Dahlia, a comparatively(sp?) young elf, is capable of going toe-to-toe with Artemis/Drizzt level swordplay?
If it was a two handed great sword, it would have required 2 gauntlets to wield it. |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 28 Jan 2011 : 18:20:44
Actually, it would make him more like 13. Yes, there IS some official material about that- in Daughter of the Drow, Liriel at 40 was described as looking about 15. So a 12 year old elf would be- what? 6? does not seem likely, and I also remember reading in one of the sources (Might have been Complete Elves) that they do not reach age of conception until around 100. That's a LOOONG time to hit puberty!! The biology is there, if you know where to look. |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 28 Jan 2011 : 12:15:07
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
A better question would be how was she able to have a child at 12? She's an ELF, fer Mystra's sake!!!
Do we really want to get into the physics of a fictional race and their biology to argue a plot point?
I do not recall any of the sourcebooks telling us at what age Elves can conceive.
I'll agree with the last line. However, I also agree with Alystra's point. Elves live dramatically longer than humans, and not all human girls are going to be able to conceive at age 12. It's very reasonable to assume elves reach sexual maturity at a much later age.
If you look at it that way I suppose.
But I tend to look at fictional races much differently and try not to question their biology to much unless there is sourcebook material telling us.
By age 30, Drizzt was already one of the greatest fighters in Menzoberranzan, and a very mature and realized individual. Assuming a natural lifespan of a Dark elf is around 400-500 years, that would make him between 6-8 in Human years :) I have yet to see any Fedor Emelianenko caliber 6-8 year olds in real life :P |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 28 Jan 2011 : 11:43:51
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
A better question would be how was she able to have a child at 12? She's an ELF, fer Mystra's sake!!!
Do we really want to get into the physics of a fictional race and their biology to argue a plot point?
I do not recall any of the sourcebooks telling us at what age Elves can conceive.
I'll agree with the last line. However, I also agree with Alystra's point. Elves live dramatically longer than humans, and not all human girls are going to be able to conceive at age 12. It's very reasonable to assume elves reach sexual maturity at a much later age. |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 28 Jan 2011 : 09:35:06
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
A better question would be how was she able to have a child at 12? She's an ELF, fer Mystra's sake!!!
Do we really want to get into the physics of a fictional race and their biology to argue a plot point?
I do not recall any of the sourcebooks telling us at what age Elves can conceive. |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 28 Jan 2011 : 09:25:05
quote:
Originally posted by Ecaporaso
I just finished Gauntlgrym, and I'm ashamed to admit that I did not consider that Barrabus might be Artemis - instead, as I read, my observations went something like this:
"Barrabus was in Calimport? C'mon, Salvatore, couldn't you give us a different assassin-producing city?"
and,
"A wall of ash? I guess that's a more common sword enchantment than I originally thought."
Of course, given the observations others made in this thread, it seems much more likely that Barrabus IS Artemis instead of just a very similar character.
Some qualms, though:
I vaguely recall that the blade in question was described as a 2-handed greatsword. Was not Charons Claw a 1-handed long sword?
I do not particularly remember it being described as a greatsword. But I could be wrong.
In any case, It is a very powerful blade. Entreri had not yet figured out all its tricks. it could very well have the ability to alter itself like other swords in the realms.
In either case, the idea of a red bladed sentient sword known as the claw that trails ash really points to Charon's claw.
quote:
Also, wasn't Charons Claw paired with a magic-absorbing gauntlet? I recall that this gauntlet was destroyed during a battle with a lich, but I thought Jarlaxle restored it.
Yes, the Gauntlet was repaired. They never reference it in the book. But it matters little. Alegni is a tiefling with a bit of shade in him as well. A half devil of considerable power and will(He would have to be to be in charge of a shadovar army). The demonic blade may well favor him.
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Finally, how is it that Dahlia, a comparatively(sp?) young elf, is capable of going toe-to-toe with Artemis/Drizzt level swordplay?
Well, a very young 30 or so year old Drizzt was able to match a 400 year old 24th level fighter in Zak, and a 13-14 year old Entreri was able to become a lieutenant in the most powerful Guild in Calimport, yet those seem to be taken with a grain of salt due to their circumstances. It is not unheard of.
She is introduced as a very good fighter in 1451 DR The year of knowledge unearthed(I do not recall them telling us exactly how much time had passed since she was attacked by Alegni), and only meets Barrabus/Entreri in 1462 DR the Year of Elves weeping 11 years later.
From every indication in the book, her unorthodox weapon is a large reason for her advantage in the fight with Entreri. He did not like the look of it even before combat because his style matched up poorly with hers and her weapon |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 27 Jan 2011 : 20:07:46
A better question would be how was she able to have a child at 12? She's an ELF, fer Mystra's sake!!! |
| Ecaporaso |
Posted - 27 Jan 2011 : 19:14:43
A third thing I forgot:
If Barrabus is Artemis, where was his signature vampiric dagger?
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