| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Lord Rad |
Posted - 03 Jun 2003 : 21:23:53
WARNING! THIS TOPIC COULD CONTAIN SPOILERS!
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Ok im currently about 1/2 way through Thornhold (book 16 of the Harpers series \ book 4 of the Songs and Swords series) and im absolutely loving it!!! 
....but what I cant understand is why does almost every review ive read is negative and even people here say how bad the novel is! why?! maybe im praising the book a bit prematurely and the second half of the book goes downhill?
Its got so much Realms flavor, I love the elements so far.... duergar, thieves, Waterdeep, Darkhold, Zhentarim, Skullport, paladins.... the descriptions and flow of the story is pretty good, lots of different threads to follow....... so c'mon, why so bad? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| scererar |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 04:15:29
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've read a great many of the Realms novels multiple times, particularly the ones I really enjoy. Just last year I went thru all of Elaine's books again...
In the early days of Realms novels, I read them all multiple times. Since more novels have come out, my opinion of some of the earlier ones has changed. I liked the first couple of Pools books when they first came out, for example, but now I will likely never read them again. In my opinion, they simply can't compare with some of the other Realms novels. Ditto for the original Avatar trilogy -- I liked it back in the day, now I have a much lower opinion of it.
Of course  it is like looking back at your first car, great memories, but very grateful for the new one, now that you have had a few years into your career and can afford better.. my interest has been around how the realms has evolved since the beginnig of published works. the avatar trilogy, the pools trilogy, the moonshea trilogy, etc. I too much prefer the newer novels, but I will never discount the contribution of the past authors and their bits of realmslore history. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 04:08:46
I've read a great many of the Realms novels multiple times, particularly the ones I really enjoy. Just last year I went thru all of Elaine's books again...
In the early days of Realms novels, I read them all multiple times. Since more novels have come out, my opinion of some of the earlier ones has changed. I liked the first couple of Pools books when they first came out, for example, but now I will likely never read them again. In my opinion, they simply can't compare with some of the other Realms novels. Ditto for the original Avatar trilogy -- I liked it back in the day, now I have a much lower opinion of it.
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| scererar |
Posted - 07 Apr 2006 : 03:17:08
quote:
Originally posted by Beezy
I plan to start reading many of my novels a second time as soon as I finish the last few FR novels I have not read. I plan to read some of the ones I read like ten years ago like the twilight giants and the pools
the pools trilogy is great, in my opinion, as far as heroes of the realms go. You just have to look at what the meaning of the books, at the time they were written, were intended for. I believe that realms novels have evolved dramatically since the good old days |
| Beezy |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 20:25:15
I plan to start reading many of my novels a second time as soon as I finish the last few FR novels I have not read. I plan to read some of the ones I read like ten years ago like the twilight giants and the pools |
| scererar |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 04:41:05
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
I don't think that WotC doesn't care about long-time readers.
I don't see it either... especially since, in addition to Elaine's upcoming new works and compilation... we are also getting Steven's novel on the Blackstaff and now Richard's new trilogy on Thay. Both set to deal with themes and places that have always had a history with the long-time readership.
Don't forget too about Ed's and Elaine's CoS novel as well... another link back to characters and places of old.
quote:
You could look at it another way, and consider the bias toward novelty something done with long-time readers in mind. After all, who wants to read the same old stuff over and over? 
A good point... though I still get a kick out of re-reading many of my old favorites.
Scererar ponders the almost 20 years of past realms novels.... I hope they think of the long time realms fans, I am one of them I have probably re-read all of my realms books, which is about everyone, at least once, most twice or more |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 02:33:00
Well while its a visitation to a place of Old.
The characters in City of Splendors are all new.
...something that I admit irked me a tad.
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| The Sage |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 01:19:41
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
I don't think that WotC doesn't care about long-time readers.
I don't see it either... especially since, in addition to Elaine's upcoming new works and compilation... we are also getting Steven's novel on the Blackstaff and now Richard's new trilogy on Thay. Both set to deal with themes and places that have always had a history with the long-time readership.
Don't forget too about Ed's and Elaine's CoS novel as well... another link back to characters and places of old.
quote:
You could look at it another way, and consider the bias toward novelty something done with long-time readers in mind. After all, who wants to read the same old stuff over and over?
A good point... though I still get a kick out of re-reading many of my old favorites.
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| Ioulaum |
Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 19:27:59
Same here.
I read a lot of stuff several times over the course of a year.
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| Kajehase |
Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 19:23:41
Considering how I'm going to have to buy a new copy of Elfsong soon because the covers are falling off...I do! |
| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 19:17:50
I don't think that WotC doesn't care about long-time readers. You could look at it another way, and consider the bias toward novelty something done with long-time readers in mind. After all, who wants to read the same old stuff over and over? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 18:58:34
quote:
Originally posted by Ioulaum
it was just a thought.
But seriously i am kind of miff how wotc is spending all thier resources to lure in new customer. While ignoring their older/current customer base. Not that i don't like the new stuff. But I love to see some novels for old characters like the Danilo, Arilyn, Browyn, the Wyrnspur familiy and etc. I just looking around for some way to reach the desicion makers at wotc to let them know that you can't take your old customers for granted. Which is what they are doing.
Well, we are getting a new short story from Elaine, the Best of Elaine anthology, and a new Songs & Swords book from her... So it's not like they've not noticed how popular she is. I will agree that the older customers seem to be less important, but they've not totally forgotten us. |
| Ioulaum |
Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 18:10:36
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Ioulaum
How about a online petition with a threat of a 3 month boycott of all wotc products.
Wouldn't work for me, I couldn't go that long without buying something from WOTC be it a novel or a sourcebook. :) Plus, that's not fair to the freelancers who write for the company.
Besides, saying you'll deny someone money if they don't spend money isn't the most effective of methods. Denying them money would leave them less able to spend the money necessary to produce a novel.
And I'm not liking the idea of damaging a franchise I like just to give it a push in a direction I do like.
Our best bet is to buy the next two Elaine novels in mass quantities (Best of Elaine and the next Songs & Swords books), and to buy more copies of any of her other books that remain in print. Doing that would tell WotC -- in the language they do listen to -- that there is enough demand to warrant them releasing a sequel to that book.
it was just a thought.
But seriously i am kind of miff how wotc is spending all thier resources to lure in new customer. While ignoring their older/current customer base. Not that i don't like the new stuff. But I love to see some novels for old characters like the Danilo, Arilyn, Browyn, the Wyrnspur familiy and etc. I just looking around for some way to reach the desicion makers at wotc to let them know that you can't take your old customers for granted. Which is what they are doing. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 06:40:01
I have no plans to kidnap Elaine to write Arilyn Moonblade books....and Browyn....
And Danillo....
I mean the COST alone would take a couple of years for the equipment...
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 06:32:09
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Now Now Elaine, you know the old saying.
You have nothing to fear from your fans....until they start looking to Misery for ideas.
:-)
That won't happen with me. Maybe it was because I was only 15 when I read the book, but I seriously didn't like it. It's one of the few books I've actually gotten rid of. |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 06:03:20
Now Now Elaine, you know the old saying.
You have nothing to fear from your fans....until they start looking to Misery for ideas.
:-)
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| Kajehase |
Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 05:41:53
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Thanks for the, um...rather bizarre show of support, guys, but petitions and boycotts are scary things. Also, time has passed, the Realms has moved on, and some of the issues that Thornhold set up for continuing treatment are, or soon will be, moot points.
I'll pick up some of the loose threads in the short story for the upcoming anthology (not for Dragon Magazine), and that will be that.
Um..yeah I mixed some things up. Sorry. I'd say it won't happen again, but...knowing me I'd be telling a lie . At least I got the important part right |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 02:52:12
I think personally Elain you did a good enough job in setting up Bronwyn and her surrogate daughter's storyline to begin with.
I do hope we find out Arilyn's a bit jealous since I'm sure Danillo will want to help out a lot.
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| ElaineCunningham |
Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 02:18:12
Thanks for the, um...rather bizarre show of support, guys, but petitions and boycotts are scary things. Also, time has passed, the Realms has moved on, and some of the issues that Thornhold set up for continuing treatment are, or soon will be, moot points.
I'll pick up some of the loose threads in the short story for the upcoming anthology (not for Dragon Magazine), and that will be that. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 02:09:01
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Plus, that's not fair to the freelancers who write for the company.
Agreed.
Considering all the effort we've read and seen Ed, Eric, Steven, Elaine and all the other writers and game designers, who frequent Candlekeep, put into FR novels and products... as well as letting us in on their design processes... I don't think I could willfully choose not to temporarily support their works.
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| Kajehase |
Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 01:57:58
quote:
Originally posted by Ioulaum
How about a online petition with a threat of a 3 month boycott of all wotc products.
Well...from what I understand, she's supposed to write a short story for Dragon Magazine that's a sequel of sorts to Thornhold, so... |
| Arivia |
Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 00:57:39
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Also a boyc0tt from just candlekeep does not have numbers to even worry wotc, "The boards that should not be names" I believe has a larger membership base (I also believe any call for a boycott there at minimun would result in post deletion, with posible loss of membership).
Boycotts/petitions are called all the time over there, mostly for game support on such topics as incarnum, incarnum having its own section of the boards, warlock support, epic support and so on. They don't go anywhere. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 00:53:06
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Ioulaum
How about a online petition with a threat of a 3 month boycott of all wotc products.
Wouldn't work for me, I couldn't go that long without buying something from WOTC be it a novel or a sourcebook. :) Plus, that's not fair to the freelancers who write for the company.
Besides, saying you'll deny someone money if they don't spend money isn't the most effective of methods. Denying them money would leave them less able to spend the money necessary to produce a novel.
And I'm not liking the idea of damaging a franchise I like just to give it a push in a direction I do like.
Our best bet is to buy the next two Elaine novels in mass quantities (Best of Elaine and the next Songs & Swords books), and to buy more copies of any of her other books that remain in print. Doing that would tell WotC -- in the language they do listen to -- that there is enough demand to warrant them releasing a sequel to that book. |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 00:40:01
Also a boyc0tt from just candlekeep does not have numbers to even worry wotc, "The boards that should not be names" I believe has a larger membership base (I also believe any call for a boycott there at minimun would result in post deletion, with posible loss of membership). |
| Kuje |
Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 00:35:38
quote:
Originally posted by Ioulaum
How about a online petition with a threat of a 3 month boycott of all wotc products.
Wouldn't work for me, I couldn't go that long without buying something from WOTC be it a novel or a sourcebook. :) Plus, that's not fair to the freelancers who write for the company. |
| Ioulaum |
Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 00:17:02
How about a online petition with a threat of a 3 month boycott of all wotc products. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 05 Apr 2006 : 00:07:19
quote:
Originally posted by Ioulaum
If we gather enough signature for a online petition do you guys think wotc will let Elaine do a sequel for Thornhold?
Nope. Online petitions generally don't get much regard, and WotC hasn't shown much willingness to find out what the fans really want. |
| Ioulaum |
Posted - 04 Apr 2006 : 23:39:39
If we gather enough signature for a online petition do you guys think wotc will let Elaine do a sequel for Thornhold? |
| Charles Phipps |
Posted - 01 Apr 2006 : 09:08:42
I liked Elaine's story about her Paladin being destined for a fall here.
I wish I still had that e-mail from the FR list. It talked about her inspiration being taken from the Paladin's handbook (one of the most....well I can't say my feelings but suffice to say I didn't care for it). In that book it said "What would a paladin do? Feed his family or tithe to his church?" (I cannot imagine ANYONE chosen to be a Paladin having this dilemna. Paladins are supposed to be WISE recall?)
Personally, I loved the book though and think that Bronwyn is as good a romantic interest for Danillo as Arilyn moonblade.
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| Paec_djinn |
Posted - 05 Jun 2005 : 14:44:22
quote:
Lord knows people'd like to see conclusions to her open endings...YEah, the self-righteous Paladins thing was kinda annoying, not half as annoying as full lack of any character in Dag, no notice why he turns to a God like Cyric, no notice of why Ashemmi decides to go behind Semmemon's back...
Somehow or rather, I seriously didn't like the Ebenezer and the osquips scene. IMO, the pages spent writing that scene could have been easily used to details things like the aforementioned by Ethriel.
Although it could perhaps been only one or two pages long, it's a lot better than Dag suddenly turning to the Cyricist ALTHOUGH those Zhents killed his family and destroyed his home.
This is not meant to offend Elaine or anything but I seriously thought that the osquip scene caused many flaws which altogether combined to bring down a book with so much potential. Of course there were some other useless scenes but none of which were as long as the osquip scene. Ebenezer's introduction could have been done a different way instead of wasting space. |
| Ethriel |
Posted - 02 Jun 2005 : 19:47:09
Lord knows people'd like to see conclusions to her open endings...YEah, the self-righteous Paladins thing was kinda annoying, not half as annoying as full lack of any character in Dag, no notice why he turns to a God like Cyric, no notice of why Ashemmi decides to go behind Semmemon's back... |
