| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Uzzy |
Posted - 30 Jan 2008 : 19:48:20
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20080130a&authentic=true
Le sigh. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Kyrene |
Posted - 24 Feb 2008 : 10:32:28
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And the editing... I don't mind the odd typo, but this one is worse than normal.
You know, I quite liked Lady of Poison and Darkvision and fully intend on still buying Stardeep, but they must rank as some of the worst edited books I have read. Perhaps Bruce is just not good at self-editing and further, unlucky in that his editors don't pick up his mistakes either.
As for my R0.02 concerning this article, it just helps to confirm my worst fears regarding a setting I have invested a whole lot of ZAR into in the last two to three years. Over and above the knee-jerk cringe I had when I saw who it was authored by. Some of the rule changes (specifically some of the dead and dying rules changes, critical hit mechanics and so on) I am very happy about. The abomination of post-apocalypse Realms though... tsk, tsk! |
| arry |
Posted - 20 Feb 2008 : 19:17:05
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
How can anyone advocate cruelty to these poor, defenseless creatures?
Because it's fun!  |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 19 Feb 2008 : 20:57:57
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Nah, not cynical...well, maybe cynical...but does that mean it is a bad thing? Nope... so far I've yet to see something that surprises me pleasantly regarding 4e FR
Same here, except for (maybe) the stated desire of the designers to ease up on RSEs. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 19 Feb 2008 : 19:09:01
My thoughts exactly -
quote:
Originally posted by Yasraena Dawndancer
Don't Burn, Boycott. Burning Books just makes you look crazy.
I am actually excited for 4th Edition....just not the new Forgotten Realms. I look at the fixes that are going into the rule system for 4th Edition and I really like them. I don't have a problem with converting FR to 4th Edition, I just have a problem with the world changes that make no sense, have no rhyme or reason and are completely unnecessary. The changes have not been thought out and have been done with the very attitude that makes gamers look like losers. (Wow, This would be so cool! *push up glasses* We can drain an entire ocean and blow up a continent and in three generations everything will be AWESOME! *pushes up glasses again*)
QFT
When I read Rich's last article, I was like "this ain't so bad", but then when I read Bruce Cordell's follow-up piece, I was in shock - all my worst fears were confirmed.
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
As for the article itself, it read more like autopsy report on a mangled corpse than a description of anything which mught even be vaguely called "Living Forgotten Realms." Rotting undead Frogotten Realms, maybe, but certainly not "Living."
I like Jamallo Kreen's description as well - I have compared 4e Realms to the Undead; a lifeless, putrid husk that barely resembles its former self, shambling on in a travesty of life.
Yes... and great big chunks of 'flesh' keep falling off, making it appear less and less like the one we new and loved. 
and when it delivers it's coarse cry for "Brains!", we can only surmise who and what it is referring to... |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 19 Feb 2008 : 19:05:43
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
Don't hate the book -- hate the author.
Thats one of the more sensible sentences I have seen in a while. Poor books, children of our friends the trees. Have they asked for this fate? No, they only lie there inside the shelves, eagerly waiting to be of service to us demanding readers. How can anyone advocate cruelty to these poor, defenseless creatures? |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 19 Feb 2008 : 18:20:39
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
This is going to sound cynical, but it's easiest for me to expect the worst in this case. I'll either have my fears confirmed, or I'll be pleasantly surprised.
Nah, not cynical...well, maybe cynical...but does that mean it is a bad thing? Nope... so far I've yet to see something that surprises me pleasantly regarding 4e FR |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 19 Feb 2008 : 17:49:42
This is going to sound cynical, but it's easiest for me to expect the worst in this case. I'll either have my fears confirmed, or I'll be pleasantly surprised. |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 19 Feb 2008 : 13:50:51
A very viable argument...maybe everything we dread now will only be much bigger in magnitude |
| Braveheart |
Posted - 19 Feb 2008 : 07:22:38
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
As for the article itself, it read more like autopsy report on a mangled corpse than a description of anything which mught even be vaguely called "Living Forgotten Realms."
You know, that is quite the apt description!
Perhaps these feature-articles are just some huge joke and they'll present something completely different in August. They're just provoking us now to get some attention for 4e.. or it's the other way round and the real nightmare starts in August..  |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 19 Feb 2008 : 02:25:17
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
As for the article itself, it read more like autopsy report on a mangled corpse than a description of anything which mught even be vaguely called "Living Forgotten Realms."
You know, that is quite the apt description! |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 18 Feb 2008 : 16:13:42
quote:
Originally posted by Yasraena Dawndancer
Don't Burn, Boycott. Burning Books just makes you look crazy.
I am actually excited for 4th Edition....just not the new Forgotten Realms. I look at the fixes that are going into the rule system for 4th Edition and I really like them. I don't have a problem with converting FR to 4th Edition, I just have a problem with the world changes that make no sense, have no rhyme or reason and are completely unnecessary. The changes have not been thought out and have been done with the very attitude that makes gamers look like losers. (Wow, This would be so cool! *push up glasses* We can drain an entire ocean and blow up a continent and in three generations everything will be AWESOME! *pushes up glasses again*)
Just now I happen to have open another window with my Amazon.com "recommendations," and a thought came to me as to how to "punish" Wizards for killing "our" Realms: those who object to the twitching abortion which will be their "Living Forgotten Realms" should examine their Amazon reccomendations any time they buy a fantasy or game book, and every time one of these monstrosities is presnted, we should check "not interested." Pretty soon their software will learn that most of those who buy D&D or Forgotten Realms books and products really are NOT interested in this cloacal leakage from Wizards, and Amazon will stop suggesting it to others who make similar purchases. I'm going to start today! I buy thousands of dollars a year in game stuff, and I want Amazon to know EXACTLY how I feel about the 4.$$$$$$ Forgotten Realms.
|
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 18 Feb 2008 : 15:09:49
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
I love how they keep adding fuel to my dislike of the "new" Realms. Everything I read makes it more and more unrecognizable as anything much resembling the "classic" Realms (everything pre-4e). I find myself hoping more and more that it will crash so that hopefully the rights will return to Ed and he can try and make something good out of it again.
Hence my vote for the emphatic "No. ... Never!" in "THE Definitive 4E Survey." I could spend many years of real time just playing out all of the stuff Bruce Cordell wrote before this System 4.$$$$$$ was even admitted to by Wizards; I have NO need for anything related to 4.$$$$$$$.
As for the article itself, it read more like autopsy report on a mangled corpse than a description of anything which mught even be vaguely called "Living Forgotten Realms." Rotting undead Frogotten Realms, maybe, but certainly not "Living."
As for 4.$$$$$$$$$ itself, I predicted that it would be coming down the pike the very first time I heard of System 3.$. My own game? Third edition, thank you very much, mostly based on AD&D material which I adapt for my own needs. I use a hex map, and creatures have facing and rear flanks. And the missile weapons still have ranges measured in tens of yeards, so archers get a chance to kill Thog before Thog run across entire battlefield in twelve seconds to Cleave, Power Cleave, Greater Improved Power Cleave, Super-Special Attack, Improved Super-Special Attack,, Greater Improved Super-Special Attack , Sunder, Improved Sunder, Greater Improved Sunder, and posibly even kill dozens of archers, whose superior range is why the English won ant Crecy and Agincourt, and why modern hunters and snipers still use bows and arrows. I knew that D&D was doomed when I wrote to Wizards several years ago and pointed out that an archer would almost certainly be killed by a melee fighter in any battle, and they very rudely told me that the idiotic ranges in the then-new PHB were not typos and that Wizards had no intent to revise them towards any approximation of Reality (which the AD&D ranges matched very closely).
As for this new X'endrick-Age of Mortals-Warhammer abomination to which Wizards is slouching towards Bethlehem to birth, I want nothing to do with it. ... Nothing. ... At. ... All. ... Which means that, much as I might have enjoyed the novels of Bruce Cordell and others in the past, I'm not going to buy anything they write about this monstrosity. There are plenty of Warhammer novels out there for me to buy used and cheap if I want to read about the effects of Chaos ... oops! ... I meant "the effects of a spellplague" ... on a land.
|
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 18 Feb 2008 : 14:23:06
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Okay, so I just got done reading it...
Spellscarred... Are Dragonmarks really that nifty a concept that we need to have them imported into the Realms?
Halruaa detonated? The Sea of Fallen Stars drained away? Oh, no, this is not good. 
And the editing... I don't mind the odd typo, but this one is worse than normal.
"but even in some of the most fantastic exploits of fighters, rouges"
"If fact, the Realms "
I know editing isn't always easy, and sometimes typos slip by... But "rouges"? That's just sloppy.
But that's the way preists of Danier spell it! If the Diety of Writing approves, it can't be wtong!
|
| Yasraena Dawndancer |
Posted - 18 Feb 2008 : 07:42:19
Don't Burn, Boycott. Burning Books just makes you look crazy.
I am actually excited for 4th Edition....just not the new Forgotten Realms. I look at the fixes that are going into the rule system for 4th Edition and I really like them. I don't have a problem with converting FR to 4th Edition, I just have a problem with the world changes that make no sense, have no rhyme or reason and are completely unnecessary. The changes have not been thought out and have been done with the very attitude that makes gamers look like losers. (Wow, This would be so cool! *push up glasses* We can drain an entire ocean and blow up a continent and in three generations everything will be AWESOME! *pushes up glasses again*) |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 18 Feb 2008 : 04:20:15
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
If I buy the FRCG, I'll be buying all the copies they have so I can then burn them in front of the book store.
Hmm problems with this in many ways.
Buying books will support 4th FR, Hasbro nor WotC cares what you do with them after you purchase them.
Starting a fire in front of a book store likely would be considered a crime or even a collection of crimes, that might get you incererated and less time to play D&D.
The concept of burning any book, even of poor quality IMO goes against the stroage of knowledge good and bad of the human race. |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 18 Feb 2008 : 00:14:19
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
If I buy the FRCG, I'll be buying all the copies they have so I can then burn them in front of the book store.
*Ahem*, maybe Big Al should give you more books to copy, so that you would forget about burning those poor, innocent books?  (I'm a librarian, so I don't like to see books destroyed for any reason -- not even the 4E Core Books). Don't hate the book -- hate the author.
|
| Alaundo |
Posted - 17 Feb 2008 : 09:43:07
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
If I buy the FRCG, I'll be buying all the copies they have so I can then burn them in front of the book store.
 Congrats, SirUrza, for my first guffaw of the day  |
| SirUrza |
Posted - 16 Feb 2008 : 23:46:23
If I buy the FRCG, I'll be buying all the copies they have so I can then burn them in front of the book store. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 16 Feb 2008 : 00:16:39
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
IMO Rich Baker is the only one (of those WoTC staff members who regularly post in their blogs or on the internet forums) who has always remained polite and "kept in touch" with the community on their own boards -- despite being verbally assaulted by many angry FR fans.
QFT
Despite the negativity - and sometimes outright rudeness - Rich has continued to field our questions to the best of his ability and keeping within his NDAs.
I personally have made more then my share of disparaging remarks, yet he still takes the time to answer my queries, which says a LOT about his character.
I will have to admit, he is much more of a Gentleman then I. 
Indeed, I'd like to chime in and agree that Rich is a real "sport", and polite in spite of impoliteness. One has to give him that much, even if they don't agree with the direction the 4E FR design team is taking.
I have to chime in with my agreement on this too. (Though at times he does seem a bit smug to me about the changes being made, but that might just be my perception.) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 15 Feb 2008 : 23:22:59
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
IMO Rich Baker is the only one (of those WoTC staff members who regularly post in their blogs or on the internet forums) who has always remained polite and "kept in touch" with the community on their own boards -- despite being verbally assaulted by many angry FR fans.
QFT
Despite the negativity - and sometimes outright rudeness - Rich has continued to field our questions to the best of his ability and keeping within his NDAs.
I personally have made more then my share of disparaging remarks, yet he still takes the time to answer my queries, which says a LOT about his character.
I will have to admit, he is much more of a Gentleman then I.
Indeed, I'd like to chime in and agree that Rich is a real "sport", and polite in spite of impoliteness. One has to give him that much, even if they don't agree with the direction the 4E FR design team is taking. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 15 Feb 2008 : 17:38:23
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
IMO Rich Baker is the only one (of those WoTC staff members who regularly post in their blogs or on the internet forums) who has always remained polite and "kept in touch" with the community on their own boards -- despite being verbally assaulted by many angry FR fans.
QFT
Despite the negativity - and sometimes outright rudeness - Rich has continued to field our questions to the best of his ability and keeping within his NDAs.
I personally have made more then my share of disparaging remarks, yet he still takes the time to answer my queries, which says a LOT about his character.
I will have to admit, he is much more of a Gentleman then I. |
| ShepherdGunn |
Posted - 13 Feb 2008 : 09:37:49
Sorry about that Wolly. I've been warned. No more talk of the "badness".
Here's the thing. I'm excited for 4E in general. Some of the things discussed are pretty interesting, and exciting. But, on the other hand, what's happening to the Realms appears to be a travesty in the making. It's hard for me to swallow. I love the Realms a lot. I've bought every book out there, but I'm concerned that what will come out in the future will make me feel like the Jedi Order books made me feel towards Star Wars. |
| Yasraena Dawndancer |
Posted - 13 Feb 2008 : 07:38:58
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Section A, rule 13 of the Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct:
quote:
13. Discussions and links regarding illegal downloads and file sharing of copyrighted material, owned by either Wizards of the Coast or a third party company, is not permitted on these forums. It would also be appreciated for members to avoid promoting this activity via Private Message/Email to others.
With regards to that rule, I've done some editing of posts in this thread, removing all such references. Consider this a warning: talk of illegally downloading copyrighted material is not allowed and will not be tolerated.
I just would like to state, that every book I own on PDF, I also own in hardcopy. I do actually support and buy these products.
Now, given that, I work a fulltime job and go to night school. Going to a library and/or bookstore to preview a book is nearly impossible for me to do. The few hours I have on the weekend before gaming group are dedicated to laundry, dishes and general housecleaning. My religion prevents me from going on Sundays.
In the end, I will in some way (either by borrowing a friends copy or flipping throw it at GenCon) preview this book before buying it. That is very much unlike my usual mode of sending Shepard to the store to pick it up or running into Hastur on the way to gaming and just grap and swipe my card at the counter, then read through it on the way to gaming.
When FRCS 3rd Ed came out, we were in the car before it ever got opened. Same with all our FR books. This time, I'm really going to have to consider the $40 I'm going to shell out and any further investments. I'm seriously thinking of just sticking to Echoes of Heaven and maybe Castlemourn (if I can find it). |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 22:12:06
Buying books second-hand is an option, I think. If I decide I *must* own the FRCG (because of, say, Ed Greenwood's content) I will buy the book second-hand. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 16:01:25
Section A, rule 13 of the Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct:
quote:
13. Discussions and links regarding illegal downloads and file sharing of copyrighted material, owned by either Wizards of the Coast or a third party company, is not permitted on these forums. It would also be appreciated for members to avoid promoting this activity via Private Message/Email to others.
With regards to that rule, I've done some editing of posts in this thread, removing all such references. Consider this a warning: talk of illegally downloading copyrighted material is not allowed and will not be tolerated. |
| ShepherdGunn |
Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 14:37:02
More than likely, we'll go to the FLGS, sit down with the store owner and sigh heavily as we shake our heads, place it back on the shelf, buy some more paints and some more minis for my 3.5 game...
I'm looking forward, though, to GenCon. It'll probably be the best place to REALLY see the reaction to the new FR. I mean, if the FR design team gets jumped while on stage, then I know I shouldn't buy the book. If they're cheered, and touted as heroes... then I know the Apocalypse is at hand, and I'll be sure to stay clear of any many-mouthed entities with deep seated desires to perform solos.
Mod edit: Comments violating rule A13 of the Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct removed. |
| Bakra |
Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 12:58:33
A person should get off their rump, go to the store, sit down at a table and read some of the book. Or stand in the aisle and thumb through the book.
Mod edit: Comments violating rule A13 of the Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct removed. |
| Bakra |
Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 12:51:04
[/quote]
of course, it could be shrink-wrapped to prevent this from happening....
[/quote]
Unless the product is age restricted, like the Book of Vile Darkness, or has an extra item in it, a computer disc with a full program not a demo, I don’t foresee the new FRCG being shrunk wrapped. They want people to pick it up, read the blurb on the back and hopefully thumb through the book. |
| Yasraena Dawndancer |
Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 08:55:33
I love a big beautiful hardcopy of any book. I get my Echoes of Heaven stuff free as a playtester on PDF, however, I bugged the company owner for a Hardcopy of the D20 Campaign Setting for my bookshelves. I will definitely be reviewing the new FRCS before allowing ShepardGunn to buy it. (For those that don't know, we're married.)
His OCD is trumped by me holding the checkbook. hehehe
Mod edit: Comments violating rule A13 of the Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct removed. |
| Mkhaiwati |
Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 01:47:30
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by ShepherdGunn
It's sad. I can almost guarantee that I'll buy the new FRCG book when it comes out, more for my Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, then I'll actually run it.
Please, everyone, don't give in to compulsive consumer mentalities on this subject. Go to you local Borders (since they do not frown on this type of thing), buy a coffee or soda or something, pick up the FRCG and read it before buying it. And I can't express how important this is for both people who intend to buy it and people who don't. The sales figures on the FRCG will be likely the only statement that WotC will listen to about how we really feel about this new "version" of the Realms. And none of us should go into it lightly. Those of us who think we will hate it might like (or possibly even love) the spin that Ed and Brian and others have put on the "new" Realms. Those who think they will love it might actually hate it. Do not just buy the book and wait until you get home to find out whether you like or hate the 4e Realms. Please.
of course, it could be shrink-wrapped to prevent this from happening.... |
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