| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 30 Oct 2005 : 15:41:39
Well met
This is a Book Club thread for Midnight's Mask. Please discuss the Prologue and Chapters 1 - 3 herein: |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dennis |
Posted - 24 Apr 2011 : 13:40:42
A good start to what must be a memorable conclusion to this series. I must admit, I'm only reading this to know more about Vhostym.
What surprised and confused me a little is that The Source was able to resist The Sojourner's mental probing. I understand that The Source, being a quasi-sentient artifact invented by an archwizard, is very powerful. But to able able to counter Vhostym's psionic power? My guess is that at a great distance, The Sojourner's telepathy was stretched and dimmed to some extent, allowing the said artifact to circumvent it.
Am I right, Paul? |
| Jhoebryn |
Posted - 11 May 2006 : 16:04:59
I am just about finished with Midnight's Mask, so I thought I would come up and post some comments now.
With regards to Riven's "betrayal", I also wasn't convinced by it. Riven's hatred for the slaadi was one reason. Cale also made it clear he wanted to find out who the Sojourner was. When Riven betrayed him yet left him alive, it made sense that this would be their way of finding him. It just seemed to fit. Still a most enjoyable conclusion to book 2...
Picking up right in the middle of the action to start this book was also a very good choice - I immediately found myself reinvested in the story.
Riven's desire to play both sides for the most favorable outcome to him fits his character (as we have come to expect).
A very enjoyable start to the final book in the trilogy... |
| PaulSKemp |
Posted - 30 Jan 2006 : 20:45:10
quote:
Originally posted by Lameth
Azriims and Dolgans transformation to Grey Slaadi let me grap my old Monster Compedium 5 of Planescape to re-read about the natural transformation from Green to Grey. Thanks Paul.
P.S.: SAINTS.....a great story. I liked the teamwork Cale & Riven took out the carriage. Get on with your fabulous work. 
Thank you, Lameth.
Meanwhile, I hope you enjoy the rest of Midnight's Mask. |
| Lameth |
Posted - 30 Jan 2006 : 20:37:21
Azriims and Dolgans transformation to Grey Slaadi let me grap my old Monster Compedium 5 of Planescape to re-read about the natural transformation from Green to Grey. Thanks Paul.
P.S.: SAINTS.....a great story. I liked the teamwork Cale & Riven took out the carriage. Get on with your fabulous work. |
| scererar |
Posted - 07 Dec 2005 : 04:37:36
thanks Paul and KEjr for responding to my post, I hope to see you both, and others, during chapters 4 and beyond. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 06 Dec 2005 : 20:54:19
And this is why I love talking with you Paul . . . you facilitate my gather information checks, lol. |
| PaulSKemp |
Posted - 06 Dec 2005 : 20:35:32
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Well, I don't always like "grey" characters. Once in a while I like to read about a heroic character that honestly wants to do good. But even then, if they are either convinced that they are right all of the time, or don't have any flaws, they either grate against any "real" characters in the book, or else are a big warning sign that the story itself isn't going to be anything other than what it is on the surface.
I guess to sum up, I would love a book with a paladin as the hero too, as long as the paladin was human and screwed up once in a while.
All of that being said, "grey" characters have their flaws and realism built into them, which is why they seem to be more interesting right from the get go.
Well, "Shadowbred" will feature a paladin in a fairly important role. In his own way, he will be no less gray than Cale and Riven. I've been very eager to write a story with a paladin in it, so I'm quite looking forward to it.
Paul |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 06 Dec 2005 : 16:01:47
Well, I don't always like "grey" characters. Once in a while I like to read about a heroic character that honestly wants to do good. But even then, if they are either convinced that they are right all of the time, or don't have any flaws, they either grate against any "real" characters in the book, or else are a big warning sign that the story itself isn't going to be anything other than what it is on the surface.
I guess to sum up, I would love a book with a paladin as the hero too, as long as the paladin was human and screwed up once in a while.
All of that being said, "grey" characters have their flaws and realism built into them, which is why they seem to be more interesting right from the get go.
|
| PaulSKemp |
Posted - 06 Dec 2005 : 13:46:32
Scererar,
I'm pleased that the opening of MM threw you right back into the story.
I'm in agreement with you and KEJr on the "gray" characters -- generally those are the types I like to read about (see, e.g, GRRM) so they are also the type I like to write about.
Paul |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 06 Dec 2005 : 03:44:27
I have always liked characters that can accept what they are, but that gets into some deep territory.
One of the things that I think of a lot with these books is that there is indeed right and wrong, and good an evil, there are extreemes, but people, no matter how noble or deranged, can't fully always be in one camp or the other, even if they do indeed exist. They can only try to gravitate toward the one that they want to promote, or else move along with the tides, so to speak. |
| scererar |
Posted - 06 Dec 2005 : 03:05:01
Well the first 3 chapters went quick! I really liked how the book picked up from the last, instantly. The way there was a kind of a daze of events, with the triggers bringing everything back into perspective, was great. I was able to remember things and feel that I was a part of the book, like oh yeah thats what was going on in the end of the 2nd book. great job Paul. I will try not to rehash what other posters have already covered, but one point I think will be new. I liked the way these characters are not regular good versus evil or right vs. wrong. there is a lot of middle ground between good vs evil, and the "right thing to do" is not always the good thing to do. These characters, while not from a spottless, bright pasts, find themselves in events that they are trying to figure out and set right. During the battle scene when Riven double crosses the party and has a gut renching moment about the betrayal, showed that this character, this person does have human feelings. Riven, my favorite character so far, is able to accept his choices in life and drive on. His last comments to Cale before they wisk away, leads to interesting thoughts of future events, did he really betray the party, or was it a see how things will go and play both sides. anyways my 2 cents worth, and I look foward to the rest of the book. now off the chapter 4 |
| scererar |
Posted - 04 Dec 2005 : 18:50:07
thank you everyone, it makes it that much more fun and interesting to be able to discuss and debate the finer points of a book. And thank you Paul for the book and being available to answer questions. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 04 Dec 2005 : 15:46:13
I loved this book, so if you have any thoughts on it, it is still quite fresh in my mind Scererar, so please, post whatever your thoughts might be. Besides, it give me more excuses to pick Paul's brain if a good point comes up, lol. |
| PaulSKemp |
Posted - 04 Dec 2005 : 11:10:42
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
I just picked up this book tonight. I noticed that the book is slated for the november book, but I hope I can find other people out there who would be able to discuss this with me as I read it. I am going to get ghostwalker soon, in order to be up to speed, but is there anyone else in the same boat. let me know
At the very least, you can discuss it with me, Scererar. :-) |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 04 Dec 2005 : 09:54:38
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
I just picked up this book tonight. I noticed that the book is slated for the november book, but I hope I can find other people out there who would be able to discuss this with me as I read it. I am going to get ghostwalker soon, in order to be up to speed, but is there anyone else in the same boat. let me know
Well met, scererar
Indeed, the Midnight's Mask book club here at Candlekeep is still open, so please feel free to post thy comments. I'm sure Paul will be more than happy to answer any questions and other readers, past and present, join in with ye  |
| scererar |
Posted - 04 Dec 2005 : 06:26:55
I just picked up this book tonight. I noticed that the book is slated for the november book, but I hope I can find other people out there who would be able to discuss this with me as I read it. I am going to get ghostwalker soon, in order to be up to speed, but is there anyone else in the same boat. let me know |
| PaulSKemp |
Posted - 09 Nov 2005 : 00:53:11
Rad and Mal,
I think the attraction between Cale and Varra is the result of both of them having similar pasts, in that both have done things of which they're ashamed. Both wallowed in the mud of sin at points in their past, and neither has fully forgiven himself/herself. But they're both working on it, even though the world is still a hard place and absolution hard to find.
In a Freudian sense, they're each attracted to the other's neuroses.
Read on. You may come to know Varra a bit better yet. |
| Malarick |
Posted - 08 Nov 2005 : 23:52:36
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
I wonder if Cale is seeing something of Tazi in Varra? Is Varra like a Tazi substitute for him?
Hehehe....it is uncanny that you were thinking of this. I just put the book down for a moment at the end of chapter 3 and thought I must post something about Thazienne and Varra.
I would like to think that Cale is just trying to move on now. Or is Varra just the rebound girl?
That said, it was unrequited between Cale and Tazi (sort of) and here he seems to be finding someone who reciprocates affections.
Looking forward to seeing how that plays out! |
| Lord Rad |
Posted - 08 Nov 2005 : 19:22:52
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Those are the most interesting kind of women (he says as he checks over his shoulder for his beutiful bride).
Well i guess there's more about Varra later on in the book. I hope so, as she does intrigue me, strangely.
I wonder if Cale is seeing something of Tazi in Varra? Is Varra like a Tazi substitute for him? I still don't think he is over Tazi, and never will be. Paul, would you like to pair those two off again at some point and write a tale on them maybe? I know Tazi was Voronica Whitney-Robinsons character but I assume you must have interacted at some point for the story between the two. Would you be able to use her character for your own means...if you had the desire to? |
| Lord Rad |
Posted - 08 Nov 2005 : 19:18:28
quote:
Originally posted by Malarick
I can remember discussing Dawn of Night with Rad, as we had been reading the book while we were both on holiday (on separate continents) and were gagging to scream out about Riven's betrayal. I just was so angry!
I can see this is a novel I am going to find hard to put down!
That's right. The novel had such an impact and it's often cropped up in conversation during the year-long anticipation of Midnight's Mask 
Riven's character is amazing. He's one of my favorite FR characters of all time. I love the relationship between him and Cale too so was gutted when the betrayal occured in the last book. Of course, that's what makes Riven even more interesting |
| CreepyBastard |
Posted - 08 Nov 2005 : 13:37:20
quote:
Really? I think that Cale and Riven had built up a mutual respect for each other. I guess I was so gullable to believe that Riven had actually changed  This is one thing that makes these two characters so interesting. There is still that unpredictable element that continues to catch me off guard
They are definitely some of the best characters I have read. Cale and Riven both remind me of Edgar Rice Burrough's characters. Heroes that are fearless and tough. |
| Malarick |
Posted - 08 Nov 2005 : 11:35:04
quote:
Originally posted by Celebrant Moonflower
WOW WOW WOW! The whole plan about Riven's betrayal is fully revealed!! I had no idea.
I also had no idea about this. And I thought this was a fantastic way to start the book, to get your mind reeling back and remembering the end of the last novel.
I can remember discussing Dawn of Night with Rad, as we had been reading the book while we were both on holiday (on separate continents) and were gagging to scream out about Riven's betrayal. I just was so angry!
I can see this is a novel I am going to find hard to put down!
|
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 08 Nov 2005 : 01:36:48
Those are the most interesting kind of women (he says as he checks over his shoulder for his beutiful bride). |
| PaulSKemp |
Posted - 07 Nov 2005 : 21:08:42
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
Streuth! thats one wicked twist about the plan to have Riven betray them at the trigger of certain actions. Amazingly thought out. Paul, was this all planned when you first started the trilogy? Did you have the complete story of all three books planned before you started writing, or were some parts of the story built along the way? This betrayal planning is damn clever
I feel ashamed to ask this, but what was the full story of Varra? I recall a few things about her from the last book but it's a little hazy for me at the moment and it's driving me mad.
Rad,
I'm delighted that you're enjoying the book. And writing stories about these characters is like visiting old friends for me, too.
On outlining: I have a general outine of the whole trilogy, and then detailed outines of each book as I go along. The betrayal, however, was one that I had planned at the outset. I'm glad that you did not see it coming! That makes it more fun when the truth is revealed.
As for Varra: her whole story has not been told. Cale has inferred that she is educated. She has mentioned that she's been in Skullport a long time, and has obliquely admitted to a "checkered" past. Other than that, she is a mystery.
Paul |
| Lord Rad |
Posted - 07 Nov 2005 : 20:51:15
quote:
Originally posted by Celebrant Moonflower
quote:
Originally posted by CreepyBastard
[brHey there,
Every step of the way Riven was with Cale. Riven hated Azriim and the rest just as much as, if not more than, Cale. The change in attitude was far too extreme, far too drastic.
That and the fact that Riven left Cale alive... he never leaves anyone alive... that was the perfect opportunity to do it.
Another assurance was that Cale and Riven were the First and Second of Mask.
Yeah, it has been a long time since Dawn of Night. In your post you mentioned things rushing back... that is exactly the way I felt.
Really? I think that Cale and Riven had built up a mutual respect for each other. I guess I was so gullable to believe that Riven had actually changed This is one thing that makes these two characters so interesting. There is still that unpredictable element that continues to catch me off guard
Gullible? you and me both I never saw it coming. Despite Riven being a Zhent assassin and a follower of Mask... nope. Ya sure had me roped in and completely fooled, Paul Certainly one of those "scream Noooooo at the book" moments! |
| Lord Rad |
Posted - 07 Nov 2005 : 20:48:55
Well I loved Shadows Witness, Twilight Falling was fantastic. You'll never beat it, I thought. But Dawn of Night knocked me for six. And now, Midnight's Mask looks to do the same! What an excellent start to the book!
As Moonflower and Creepy said, it sure is straight back into the action and the closing scene of book 2. I will definately read all 3 books again, back to back. I hope one day WotC will do a rerelease of the trilogy in one collected hardcover 
Ahh, so a city of Shade underwater is coming into play eh? Nice I'm looking forward to reading more on this character and setting ::drool::
I agree with you there Creepy about not giving Riven enough credit! He's a fantastic character and certainly shouldn't be taken from granted. Both him and Cale have been through so much since we first met them, and have become quite complex characters.
Ya know, I also loved that familiar feeling whilst reading the book. I feel that i've gotten so attached to these characters. It's good to have them back alright!
Streuth! thats one wicked twist about the plan to have Riven betray them at the trigger of certain actions. Amazingly thought out. Paul, was this all planned when you first started the trilogy? Did you have the complete story of all three books planned before you started writing, or were some parts of the story built along the way? This betrayal planning is damn clever
I feel ashamed to ask this, but what was the full story of Varra? I recall a few things about her from the last book but it's a little hazy for me at the moment and it's driving me mad.
So far, i'm thoroughly enjoying this book and it's hard to put down. Definately one of the best FR novels i've read over the past year or so! |
| Celebrant Moonflower |
Posted - 07 Nov 2005 : 20:21:55
quote:
Originally posted by CreepyBastard
[brHey there,
Every step of the way Riven was with Cale. Riven hated Azriim and the rest just as much as, if not more than, Cale. The change in attitude was far too extreme, far too drastic.
That and the fact that Riven left Cale alive... he never leaves anyone alive... that was the perfect opportunity to do it.
Another assurance was that Cale and Riven were the First and Second of Mask.
Yeah, it has been a long time since Dawn of Night. In your post you mentioned things rushing back... that is exactly the way I felt.
Really? I think that Cale and Riven had built up a mutual respect for each other. I guess I was so gullable to believe that Riven had actually changed This is one thing that makes these two characters so interesting. There is still that unpredictable element that continues to catch me off guard |
| Celebrant Moonflower |
Posted - 07 Nov 2005 : 20:19:34
quote:
Originally posted by PaulSKemp
quote:
Originally posted by Celebrant Moonflower
Paul, when Riven said to Cale "remember what i said to you after the Cyricist in Selgaunt", it did make me wonder what that was (and I know it's revealed in the next chapter), but did you intend to use this particular piece when you wrote it back in the previous book? Do you make notes of things like this, if not? Was it part of the plan all along? Good planning anyway
Celebrant,
That reference actually comes from the short story, "All the Sinners Saints," which appeared in Dragon 297. As for planning it out *exactly* that way -- I'll say yes, and try to make my bluff roll.
Oh that's great. Thank you for in information I've noted down Dragon short stories which have been listed in another thread here at Candlekeep and I actually wanted to go through and read your Cale stories before this book. I think though that knowing what you just said, it will make it more enjoyable and special this way around |
| CreepyBastard |
Posted - 07 Nov 2005 : 16:48:42
quote:
Ah, I see.
You give Riven more credit than some.
I don’t think people give Riven enough credit.
Riven does not have a god enough reason to betray Cale. Based on the events throughout the books, any real betrayal by Riven would have made no sense. There would have been no logical reason.
For one, Riven is not stupid. While he is ‘evil’, that doesn’t mean he is driven to do ‘evil’ things for the sake of them being ‘evil’. What I really like about Riven is that he is real and believable.
My view of Riven:
Riven doesn’t actually care about being The First of Mask. He does, simply because it irks him that Cale was chosen as The First. Deep down inside, Riven prefers his station as The Second.
I don’t think he craves leadership in the sense of being in a position where he is actually a leader. If this was true, he would have made his move for more power early in his career. Riven is naturally a loner. He prefers to work alone and rely only on himself. The extent of his desire for leadership is only in the sense of being n control of himself and his own destiny. He wouldn’t want the responsibility. Besides, he also knows that Cale is more of a leader anyway.
ok... so I may be way off... thats what happens when you have too much time on your hands. |
| PaulSKemp |
Posted - 07 Nov 2005 : 15:49:45
quote:
Originally posted by CreepyBastard
[quote]
Actually, it was more of the 'it doesn't make sense that he would betray Cale' argument.
Ah, I see.
You give Riven more credit than some. |
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