| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 01 Oct 2007 : 21:04:33
With all of the concern over Wizars and how they are (allegedly) going to mangle the FR, I want to know: will the D20 system and the OGL survive? If so, bug*er Wizards -- I'll just buy my game stuff from White Wolf, Mongoose, Green Ronin, Chaosium, et al.
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| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 27 Sep 2008 : 08:24:04
As far as I know, FFG are still working out the finer points of the GSL and how it relates to their products.
In terms of what I said about the Midnight stuff, well... I've heard a couple of things about what their plans are for the rest of '08. But it's mostly all out-of-date info now, since some of the things I was told earlier on, haven't happened. And we've only got about three months left for this year, and I've not heard anything new.
So, at the moment, no, I can't elaborate more on that at the moment. Sorry Jakk. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 27 Sep 2008 : 08:00:54
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Ah, this is good news. I'm hoping this also means Midnight will continue into 4e. I hope it does because... well, I can't say why at the moment, but I'm hoping it's something I'll be able to share with you all very shortly.
So... Sage, is this something you can elaborate on at this point?
I know that Green Ronin opted out of the new GSL, and that Mongoose stuck around. Either way, I haven't heard about Fantasy Flight (the publishers of Midnight, I believe). Does anybody else know what their status is? Of course, the 4E Realms is just one step away from being a Midnight clone, and half a step in another direction away from being an Eberron clone. If they'd done the Spellplague correctly according to previously-established lore regarding Mystra and the Weave as I understand it, the Realms would be the world of Midnight, except that instead of evil everywhere, it would be a case of magic nowhere... which is more or less the same thing, imho.  [/rant]
Back on topic: What about White Wolf and AEG? Are they going to sign on to the GSL, or does anyone know yet? |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 09 Sep 2008 : 16:56:36
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
WotC never received any compensation for the OGL/GSL. The only benefit to the OGL was to the third party publishers to show they they were officially compatible. Much like when you buy software that says it's Windows/PC compatible.
Ah ok, now I understand better  Thanks! |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 09 Sep 2008 : 15:49:49
WotC never received any compensation for the OGL/GSL. The only benefit to the OGL was to the third party publishers to show they they were officially compatible. Much like when you buy software that says it's Windows/PC compatible. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 09 Sep 2008 : 15:46:16
Does this mean then that WotC is losing money?? |
| Ayunken-vanzan |
Posted - 09 Sep 2008 : 14:57:52
So the GSL is backfiring. Instead of signing, third party publishers ignore it and publish right away, and WotC has no control over the product. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 09 Sep 2008 : 14:36:41
quote:
Originally posted by StarBog
Even more so because Midnight is such a wonderful and evocative setting. I wish I could run or play more of it.
Fortunately, I've got a pretty active RAVENLOFT group, so switching the campaign to the MIDNIGHT setting hasn't been all that difficult.  |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 09 Sep 2008 : 13:37:12
Ah, yes... Sorry. Forgot that they changed it from OGL to GSL when I typed this up last night. They are publishing it as being for 4th Edition rules but without the D&D brand.
I actually first caught wind of this over on the WotC boards (Here). Apparently the legal issues are such that you can't copyright game "rules" per se, only items unique to that game. IOW, Wasbro can't copyright the d20 system, but they can copyright Illithids. So, third party publishers are actually free to publish away, with or without the brand. The brand is essentially a marketing tool to show the support between the two companies.
To get your head around the copyright, think of the game Monopoly. There's only one Monopoly, but there are a bunch of '-opoly' (Marvelopoly, Simpsonsopoly, etc) that are out there not published by Parker Bros, but using the same rules. They just can't use the same streets or things like 'Community Chest'. |
| StarBog |
Posted - 09 Sep 2008 : 11:58:39
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Ah, this is good news. I'm hoping this also means Midnight will continue into 4e. I hope it does because... well, I can't say why at the moment, but I'm hoping it's something I'll be able to share with you all very shortly.
I'll send you pre-emptive congratulations!
Even more so because Midnight is such a wonderful and evocative setting. I wish I could run or play more of it. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 09 Sep 2008 : 11:40:02
I am wondering this myself. |
| Ayunken-vanzan |
Posted - 09 Sep 2008 : 08:37:41
I am confused. Did you mean: They have published their adventure without the GSL? Meaning: They produce an adventure using neither the OGL nor the GSL, making it compatible with 4e without naming it "4.e" or "D&D"?
Edit: Punctuation corrected. |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 09 Sep 2008 : 06:09:20
As Kosh said, "And so it begins..."
Goodman Games have published Dungeon Crawl Classics #53: Sellswords of Punjar without the OGL. Kenzer & Company and other companies are planning their own releases, not waiting for the OGL stamp of approval. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 23:09:30
Ah, this is good news. I'm hoping this also means Midnight will continue into 4e. I hope it does because... well, I can't say why at the moment, but I'm hoping it's something I'll be able to share with you all very shortly.
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| Kuje |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 21:41:09
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
There's recent news over on ENworld, and a thread about it, with info from the WOTC brand manager saying that the OGL will still be around in 4e.
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=3876623#post3876623
It seems to me that there is still quite a bit of uncertainty -- as in the post which said that the thread screamed "dicuss me" and the one which predicted that Wizards would let D20 "die a quiet death." Oh well, as someone else said, the (1.0a) Open Gaming License still exists. I hope that my fears will wind up as nothing more than cloud in a coffee cup.
Fails to see how it's uncertain. Scott, the WOTC brand manager, said clearly that the OGL will exist in 4e. How is that uncertain? |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 20:54:11
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
There's recent news over on ENworld, and a thread about it, with info from the WOTC brand manager saying that the OGL will still be around in 4e.
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=3876623#post3876623
It seems to me that there is still quite a bit of uncertainty -- as in the post which said that the thread screamed "dicuss me" and the one which predicted that Wizards would let D20 "die a quiet death." Oh well, as someone else said, the (1.0a) Open Gaming License still exists. I hope that my fears will wind up as nothing more than cloud in a coffee cup.
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| Kuje |
Posted - 08 Nov 2007 : 16:39:33
There's recent news over on ENworld, and a thread about it, with info from the WOTC brand manager saying that the OGL will still be around in 4e.
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=3876623#post3876623 |
| SirUrza |
Posted - 20 Oct 2007 : 00:44:12
I have a feeling most companies will go full fledge 4E when it comes out. Wizards has pushed back to books for a reason and I bet anything that it has to do with needing more fine tuning. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 20 Oct 2007 : 00:33:01
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by dalor_darden
Anyway, I'm really hoping the d20 OGL stays the way it is. I had plans to publish a d20 setting of my own next year, but getting wind of 4e had me change my mind. I don't want to publish anything that will then need to be reconditioned to fit a new rules set. I have to admit that Ed Greenwood has been more of an inspiration for the world I'm creating than any "traditional" folks like Tolkien. I can't wait to publish it, but now I have a lot of reworking to do and I can't even start THAT until the new edition comes out.
So to say I like that a new edition is coming out is a two-edged blade for me: I like the idea, but it is putting a hurting on my wallet!
I know how you feel, I had around 20 base classes that I created and was going to design a website to publish one a month for a $1 each. Then 4e was announced. Grr...I still feel that they should have waited at least another 2 years. Anyways, here is a link to what Enworld has about what WotC has said about the OGL and SRD: <http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=4e#ogl>.
That pretty much is what I had been told...glad to see it a little more concrete...but things can always change.
If for some reason it will cost me something to print my setting in 4e, then most likely I will simply go ahead with its 3.5 version and market on the "love folks have for the "old" system and hatred for this new monster that is 4e..." or some such.
Which would be funny since I'm looking forward to playing 4e, just don't want it to hurt my finances! LOL
Still a waiting game for me either way...I won't be one of the few who can work on 4e materials yet. |
| Aravine |
Posted - 19 Oct 2007 : 17:05:10
I concede. (Therefore I have changed my post). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 21:31:48
quote:
Originally posted by aravine
Indeed. something can be from the same pattern of thought without being exactly the same. let me Rephrase my initial reply. the first faceimily to D&D ever recorded to my knowledge was played by boy scouts in 1928. in any case the point really isn't about what boy scouts did. the statement was used as reinforcement that the d20 system will not die, even if they tottally screw this up.
It would still be good to have a reference cited...
And D&D and D20 are not the same thing. D&D was around long before they shifted to D20. I'm not trying to be contrarian, I'm just saying that one is not the other -- so the survivability of one does not indicate that the other will remain. |
| Aravine |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 21:03:45
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by aravine
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by aravine
the first D&D recorded was in 1928(to my knowledge) played by a bunch of boy scouts.
That's a neat trick, since D&D wasn't published until 1974.
it wasn't called Dungeons &dragons, but it had a stat boook, character sheets, the works. you didn't seriously beleive they came up with this stuff on their own, did you?
I never said they did. It's a known fact that they started by modifying the rules for Chain Mail. But it's also known that this was in the early 70's.
Lots of RPGs have stat books and character sheets. That doesn't make them D&D. And you specifically stated that D&D was being played in 1928. If a game doesn't exist, it can't be played. Being rude about it won't change that.
And, as stated by others, you really need to provide some proof before making claims like that. Nothing I've seen indicates the existence of any RPGs in 1928.
Indeed. something can be from the same pattern of thought without being exactly the same. let me Rephrase my initial reply. the first faceimily to D&D ever recorded to my knowledge was played by boy scouts in 1928. in any case the point really isn't about what boy scouts did. the statement was used as reinforcement that D&D will not die, even if they tottally screw this up. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 19:28:01
quote:
Originally posted by dalor_darden
Anyway, I'm really hoping the d20 OGL stays the way it is. I had plans to publish a d20 setting of my own next year, but getting wind of 4e had me change my mind. I don't want to publish anything that will then need to be reconditioned to fit a new rules set. I have to admit that Ed Greenwood has been more of an inspiration for the world I'm creating than any "traditional" folks like Tolkien. I can't wait to publish it, but now I have a lot of reworking to do and I can't even start THAT until the new edition comes out.
So to say I like that a new edition is coming out is a two-edged blade for me: I like the idea, but it is putting a hurting on my wallet!
I know how you feel, I had around 20 base classes that I created and was going to design a website to publish one a month for a $1 each. Then 4e was announced. Grr...I still feel that they should have waited at least another 2 years. Anyways, here is a link to what Enworld has about what WotC has said about the OGL and SRD: <http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=4e#ogl>. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 19:17:28
quote:
Originally posted by aravine
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by aravine
the first D&D recorded was in 1928(to my knowledge) played by a bunch of boy scouts.
That's a neat trick, since D&D wasn't published until 1974.
it wasn't called Dungeons &dragons, but it had a stat boook, character sheets, the works. you didn't seriously beleive they came up with this stuff on their own, did you?
I never said they did. It's a known fact that they started by modifying the rules for Chain Mail. But it's also known that this was in the early 70's.
Lots of RPGs have stat books and character sheets. That doesn't make them D&D. And you specifically stated that D&D was being played in 1928. If a game doesn't exist, it can't be played. Being rude about it won't change that.
And, as stated by others, you really need to provide some proof before making claims like that. Nothing I've seen indicates the existence of any RPGs in 1928.
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| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 18:03:53
Wow...I'm not sure what to say.
At first I was going to say perhaps the 1928 was a typo and he meant 1978 (still a mistake)...but now...
Anyway, I'm really hoping the d20 OGL stays the way it is. I had plans to publish a d20 setting of my own next year, but getting wind of 4e had me change my mind. I don't want to publish anything that will then need to be reconditioned to fit a new rules set. I have to admit that Ed Greenwood has been more of an inspiration for the world I'm creating than any "traditional" folks like Tolkien. I can't wait to publish it, but now I have a lot of reworking to do and I can't even start THAT until the new edition comes out.
So to say I like that a new edition is coming out is a two-edged blade for me: I like the idea, but it is putting a hurting on my wallet! |
| Jorkens |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 18:02:12
I think I will have to have some confirmation of that one before I believe it Aravine. I have heard that said before, but I have never seen anything put forward to back it up. Until then it will be Gygax' creation. |
| Aravine |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 17:46:52
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by aravine
the first D&D recorded was in 1928(to my knowledge) played by a bunch of boy scouts.
That's a neat trick, since D&D wasn't published until 1974.
it wasn't called Dungeons &dragons, but it had a stat boook, character sheets, the works. you didn't seriously beleive they came up with this stuff on their own, did you? |
| Aravine |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 17:44:02
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
quote:
Originally posted by aravine
d20 is never going anywhere. the first D&D recorded was in 1928(to my knowledge) played by a bunch of boy scouts.
If this is serious, could you provide a citation of some kind?
The roots of RPGs -- improvised theatre/ritual/storytelling and kriegspiel -- go back into prehistory.
I don't have the link anymore but these boy scouts, they even drew their own map |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 05 Oct 2007 : 05:45:39
For what its worth, Erik Mona has said on Paizo's boards that if 4th edition doesn't live up to Paizo's expectations, they have no problem with developing their own "3.75" edition to support their Pathfinder line. This will only be something they would consider if 4th edition really disappoints them. |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 05 Oct 2007 : 00:33:15
My thanks to those of you who have provided well-informed replies.
|
| Kajehase |
Posted - 04 Oct 2007 : 18:36:43
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
With all of the concern over Wizars and how they are (allegedly) going to mangle the FR, I want to know: will the D20 system and the OGL survive? If so, bug*er Wizards -- I'll just buy my game stuff from White Wolf, Mongoose, Green Ronin, Chaosium, et al.
If I understood the Green Ronin podcast with Erik Mona that was linked to at www.paizo.com, then yes on both counts. And there will also be a continuation of sorts of them into 4th edition (with a new D20 logo since the current one is apparently "tainted"). |
