| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 11 Aug 2005 : 23:54:13
Anyone interested in picking this tome up? I read the concept and wasn't too thrilled. Seems like it is just another facet in a growing plethora of skills and PrCs.
The concept of soul-powered stuff is kind of strange, too. I'm not too sure how it might be incorporated into the Realms without making Kelemvor too angry.
Oh well, any thoughts out there?
C-Fb |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Alystra Illianniis |
Posted - 20 Mar 2011 : 06:18:50
I have this book on pdf, and I have to say, I hated it. At first glance, it sounded interesting. Then one of my players decided to use it. I LET him. BIIIG MISTAKE! His Nerocarnum-user derailed my campaign right of the bat at 1ts level, after less than twenty minutes of play! WAAY overpowered abilities, especially in the hands of an expert "breaker" player. I looked over the book again, and decided it was never getting used in my games again. Nothing in it fit into my campaigns. The totemist might have been interesting, but the entire system just did not work for me. And the races were boring, as others have mentioned. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 14:06:27
Ah yes thanks Hawkins I forgot about those. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 05 Mar 2011 : 16:29:50
I am only mentioning this because the thread ended before these were written, but Eytan Bernstein wrote the following articles to help include the Magic of Incarnum in the Realms:
Class Chronicles: Incarnum
Class Chronicles: Incarnates, Soulborn, Totemists |
| Diffan |
Posted - 05 Mar 2011 : 11:14:25
Yea, I don't ever recall getting this book or even reading it's contents. Is this the one with Truenamers or was that Tome of Magic? They should re-do the Tome of Magic and make up some classes like the Shadowcaster (which was the best class of that book IMO). I'd say they should re-do the Tome of Battle instead but I need just look at the 4E PHB to get that  . |
| Dark Wizard |
Posted - 05 Mar 2011 : 05:54:36
I would guess not. It seemed Incarnum was one of the least liked of the supplemental magic systems. This was apparent even when the book was first published. You saw continued discussions on the Tome of Battle/Book of Nine Swords or Tome of Magic (even then mostly for the flavorful Binder component) but rarely anything on Incarnum. From what I gathered, the general sentiment seemed to be that Incarnum (with few exceptions) was boring.
For the most part Incarnum consisted of abilities that merely added +X modifiers to existing abilities. Three of the four new races were just humans with glowing eyes or minimal modifications. Incarnum received virtually no follow up rules or expansions in print or online. I could be remembering this incorrectly, but I recall there also seemed to be balance problems with the Soulborn being severely underpowered compared to the other two (which weren't consistently on par with many Core Rules classes to begin with).
The Soulborn and Incarnate were flavored as off-brand paladins, this limits their adaptability. It didn't help that the abilities took the form of magic items. It makes some sense for the Totemist to "wear" the abilities of various magical beasts. This gets a bit silly when the other two classes do it, especially when there is no dearth of good magic items those characters could wear on the corresponding item slot. It seemed strange that WotC co-opted the chakra concept but did not maintain much integrity with the original idea. Instead they heavily altered idea of chakras then made them blatant and visible as worn items. Makes me wonder why they bothered to use the word chakra at all.
The one exception to Incarnum being bland were the Totemist and the Dusklings who had totemist as their favored class. This was the only class that seemed truly mystical all the way through as they get to assume the unique abilities of specific magic beasts with their soulmelds. The preview for MoI even featured both the class and race. So even in the preview they knew two of the most interesting concepts in the books were the totemist and duskling. Unfortunately for them, that’s about all the book had to offer.
It seems to me that Incarnum was a book that packaged classes and races around a rules system carelessly. The designers thought the material might be interesting without really giving much attention to their integration, at least fluff-wise, into existing games. While book presents Incarnum as a single system, it seems to be a smattering of ideas thrown together.
The chakras belong in one system, perhaps as an addition or extension of the psionics rules or to supplement the monk.
The alignment warriors (soulborn and incarnate) belong in their own system. As noted in this thread previously, they seemed to be going for Jedi with the serial numbers filed off. I could see the need for a system devoted solely for mystic warriors of different archetypes, "warrior-mages/gishes," wuxia swordsmen, D&D Jedi clones. Of course, the Book of Nine Swords came along soon after and that filled the niche well enough.
The Totemist should be a system in itself. WotC could even split the classes between the various creature types, magical beasts, undead, celestials and fiends, dragons, werecreatures/lycanthropes, etc. It's all the fun of polymorph without the issues. This is reminiscent of the blue mage of Final Fantasy. If WotC is to revive Incarnum in 4E, my bet is on a new updated Totemist.
P.S. Nice thread necromancy, arcanist. |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 02 Mar 2011 : 17:01:39
Anyone know if they plan on updating Incarnum to 4E?? (I guess it would depend on how sales did for it in 3.5) |
| Alisttair |
Posted - 02 Mar 2011 : 16:59:45
Anyone know if they plan on updating Incarnum to 4E?? (I guess it would depend on how sales did for it in 3.5) |
| Archwizard |
Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 01:08:20
I tried to figure out the system and I think I have, but it's just annoying to look at. I thought I might have beem able to mine some of the material for inclusion into the Realms, particularly Kara-Tur and other eastern areas (given the borrowed term of chakra and the like), but no dice. Maybe I will have better luck with Tome of Battle, which sounds like it might be a good system to replicate some of the borderline supernatural (sometimes blatantly magical) swordsmanship seen in martial arts films and media, etc. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 24 Jun 2006 : 04:16:35
I usually have a ton of ideas on how to incorporate new rules and sourcebooks into the Forgotten Realms, but this system was very daunting for me. Even though I know there is a lot of "non-standard" magic in the Realms, Incarnum was just too alien to my way of thinking and to previous forms of magic, and the slew of new terminology was not only jarring, but I think it really serves to constanly remind you this has little to do with established D&D systems.
Personally, if you are looking for alternate forms of magic that seem to mesh fairly well with the Realms and how they have been portrayed thus for, the Tome of Magic book was an excellent one. Binders are a pretty straightforward class, Shadow magic works a lot like standard spellcasting, and Truenaming works like standard skill checks, and each section has some PrC, spells, and feats the bridge the gap between the "standard" forms and magic and the new ones. |
| Sebastrd |
Posted - 24 Jun 2006 : 03:31:04
I picked up this book because it seemed interesting on the surface. On the whole I was dissappointed. Incarnum adds a new aspect to combat for Incarnum-based characters because it allows for customization of abilities from round to round, but overall the system just seemed weak compared to standard magic (not to mention psionics). I was especially disinterested in the sections that layed out how particular classes should be played, and the near-constant alignment restrictions. All in all, I expect I'll only ever use the system when I want to throw something unexpected at my players. Personally, I don't find any of the new races, classes, or PrCs very intriguing. |
| Jindael |
Posted - 03 May 2006 : 18:51:10
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
A small bit of bad humour on your Wednesday afternoon...
I never knew Nebin was into that kind of music.
Everyone likes to throw the horns every now and again. :p
On a topic related note: I've a few pages of material on converting Incarnum into a more "Realms-Friendly" type system. Like most of my work, however, it is likely doomed to sit half baked on my hard drive. |
| Arivia |
Posted - 03 May 2006 : 18:37:25
A small bit of bad humour on your Wednesday afternoon...
I never knew Nebin was into that kind of music. |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 20 Sep 2005 : 15:24:47
Yes, and another of the races - the small fey that use the arcanum just seem like almost a rehash of those good goblin desert people in the Sandstorm book (Buhkah, I think). That's why I think these books should focus on more how the standard races (for Core, Faerun, Eberron, etc) would be able to work the Incarnum in. Rather, they created a bunch of near-humans and spent the majority of time focusing on PrCs designed mostly for them.
C-Fb |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 19 Sep 2005 : 01:59:01
Part of the problem is that a lot of the races that really catch our imagination come from classic folklore . . . elves, dwarves, gnomes, goblins, ogres . . . but the more you start trying to come up with PC races for each individual book, you do start to fall into the "sci-fi" aspect of things, where if you can't think of anything else you come up with "they look like humans, but . . ." and when there but is different enough (ahem), they just don't really catch your eye.
We are entering the Star Trek era of PC races, where the races are different because of where the funky crinkle is on their face (i.e. ear, forhead, nose, etc). The cultures were well written and interesting, but physically, they really weren't very evocative. |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 18 Sep 2005 : 22:16:31
No, I meant they need to focus more on the different subraces of Elves, Dwarves, Humans, etc. I don't want new races, I'd rather they stick with what the have and make it better than trying to proliferate new races throughout the core books.
C-Fb |
| warlockco |
Posted - 18 Sep 2005 : 21:18:57
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
I totally agree, KEJR - and I must say - don't pick up this book if you were looking for races. 3 out of the 4 are just retreads of "Humans with different appearances". One has scales on their backs, and shoulders, but is human. Another is human except their have the Fremen eyes from Dune. It's kind of sad with all the creative talent at WotC they just continually put out blah when it comes to races. Heck, I'd rather them expand on some of the races they had than come out with... well, you know. 
C-Fb
They are, its called variant humans  |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 18 Sep 2005 : 18:46:46
I totally agree, KEJR - and I must say - don't pick up this book if you were looking for races. 3 out of the 4 are just retreads of "Humans with different appearances". One has scales on their backs, and shoulders, but is human. Another is human except their have the Fremen eyes from Dune. It's kind of sad with all the creative talent at WotC they just continually put out blah when it comes to races. Heck, I'd rather them expand on some of the races they had than come out with... well, you know.
C-Fb |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 18 Sep 2005 : 14:48:43
I am getting tired of new races in the "core" books. Unless its just a brilliant idea, I don't know what the point is. Given that it is relatively easy to use monsters as PCs in 3.5, all they have to do is make sure that the MM when they come out have enough non LA races that people have some choice, but at least then they aren't taking up space in rulebooks that could be used for other information. None of races either in the Terrain series or the Races series have really done much for me, and I really don't want to try to come up with a place for them in the Realms. |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 18 Sep 2005 : 09:44:16
Yeah, I hear ya... You know, I was thinking of getting a group together that is like minded for once. Especially since I am so tired of rules lawyers. |
| warlockco |
Posted - 18 Sep 2005 : 05:35:57
Sounds like something that I will have to wait til Media Play gets so I can go sit down somewhere and give it a good going over.
But overall out of my group, I think I would be the most likely to get this one, especially since, I just reconnected with my group after an absence of a few months and found that about half the group has decided to leave for the benefit of one player (one that while he is a decent player is too much of a munchkin), out of those leaving one one will really be missed (he has alot of buttons that are fun to push  ). |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 18 Sep 2005 : 04:09:02
Ok, so I picked this book up....
I've gone through the first couple of chapters... and it's kind of a weird system, but could come in handy.
The new races are not very well done... kind of reminds me of the new races from the "Races of..." series.
The new classes are on par with the others. Mostly, I think this book will allow some more "pariah" players some options. By pariah players, I mean those gamers who will always pick something so out there and unusual that it never works with the other party members.
As I read more, I will get more indepth...
C-Fb |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 20:25:21
Yeah, even though it may not be just like the force, that picture is great. That is the basic picture of Force Lightning!
Ok, seriously, I am going to pick this book up tomorrow and see if it does have anything to offer in way of my campaign. I just hope it's not trying to rework magic in a fairly dumb way - such as the Warlock (my opinion).
I hope it has new avenues to explore and new arcs that can be used in my current FR campaigns.
C-Fb |
| Alaundo |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 19:16:13
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
Ps. What exactly is meant by paganism? Is it just what the christian church calls basically all other religions?
Well met
Not at all, khorne. Ye can find many resources on the web regarding the pagan beliefs which should further enlighten ye. I don't wish us to get into a debate about real-world religion herein, and certainly don't believe that WotC meant any disrespect to any similarities contained within Magic of Incarnum.
Now, let us move on to discussing this tome and it's uses within a campaign  |
| khorne |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 18:41:06
quote:
Originally posted by Tifus Artwin
Hmmm, I just looked over this book, and after reading the Introduction, I do not think I will even pick the book up let alone buy it.
Just to rant a bit, Who the HELL does WotC think they are to use paganistic beleifs, what gives them the right to change what is, and is not correct about an existing beleif system? They was doing good, sticking to more or less dead faiths for aspects of the game that have made it more believable, but now in an "attempt" to make something new, they have just walked all over a part of 3 religions that I know of personanly.
Now we are going to be at it again it looks like, adding in existing, and still USED Paginistic/Druidic/Hinduism(sp?)material is just asking for trouble.
(refering to the use of Chakras)
Anyway, Im done ranting just had to get that out, sorry all.
~Tifus
I`m sorry, but I don`t understand why you are upset. This book is a work of fiction, so what`s the problem? I honestly don`t get it.
Ps. What exactly is meant by paganism? Is it just what the christian church calls basically all other religions? |
| khorne |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 18:38:16
When I read about the book, I never thought that this was a Force ripoff. I liked the concept of incarnum. |
| Garen Thal |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 17:31:18
I dunno. When I first read about Incarnum, and noticed that a lot of the example feats use blue as the color of soulstuff, the first thing I thought of was the scene from Tantras, where Torm looks down at one of his wounds and witnesses the blue soulstuff escaping. Maybe a bit heavy-duty for what Magic of Incarnum is presenting, but it doesn't seem all that hard to me to fit this into the Realms.
Could just be me, though. |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 15:24:12
ROTFL....
I should have come back to this thread before... that is a awesome picture, and nothing like Force Lightning what so ever.
Honestly, though, I never picked up on this new book being like the Force for D&D, I thought it was some metaphysical thing where you can harvest souls and stick them in items, or use them to cast powerful magics.
However, if it is like the force, well... then I will just create characters using my d20 SWRPG book and bring them in rather than buying this book.
C-Fb |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 01:25:30
Honestly, I always try to be openminded about new products. I really don't have a problem with integrating new magic systems and the like into the game, but some things seem like they SHOULD have been noticed before history wise . . . but hey, I still haven't got a chance to read through it at Border's or anything, so I can't say anything for sure.
Then again, my innitial fear that Incarnum is essentially the Force for D&D isn't helped much by this particular picture:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/moi_gallery/91024.jpg |
| Mathias Covencraft |
Posted - 09 Sep 2005 : 22:39:53
I just hope characters don't have to get incarnum specific feats in orders to use incarnum type feats..."Cobalt Strike" is a feat i have in mind for another mounted-paladin of mine that is Epic level. *grins to himself* |
| Sanishiver |
Posted - 09 Sep 2005 : 03:09:25
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Such major things being tacked on and saying that they were "always there" either stretches things too much, or just sits there apart from the rest of the campaign setting.
I don't think it's fair to say this is what Magic of Incarnum -- or any splatbook for that matter -- is saying.
These books present optional rules that can be used to augment an existing campaign (Published or Homebrew) or to help start one up.
Additionally, Ed has hinted time and again at the variety of different kinds of magic in the Realms (casting styles, forms of Magic, etc) … so I don’t think it stretches plausibility to figure there are other, as yet undiscovered or little-heard of forms of Magic in Faerun.
And since the Incarnum rules are optional to begin with, DMs don’t have to include it if they don’t want to.
J. Grenemyer |
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