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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Aug 2005 : 23:54:13
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Anyone interested in picking this tome up? I read the concept and wasn't too thrilled. Seems like it is just another facet in a growing plethora of skills and PrCs.
The concept of soul-powered stuff is kind of strange, too. I'm not too sure how it might be incorporated into the Realms without making Kelemvor too angry.
Oh well, any thoughts out there?
C-Fb
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Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2005 : 01:01:42
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| To me, it's just another alternate magic system. Falls under the same heading as Psionics (i.e. won't be used in my campaigns). But I'll probably still pick it up, being anal as I am. Besides, it may have some interesting ideas in it. |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
Edited by - Melfius on 12 Aug 2005 01:02:12 |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1288 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2005 : 01:06:32
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Is it put out by WOTC or is it an independent publisher?
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
Edited by - The Sage on 12 Aug 2005 02:06:16 |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2005 : 01:32:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Is it put out by WOTC or is it an independent publisher?
It's WOTC's next incarnation of new fluff and crunch... I just don't see how it would work well with the Realms.
But then again, it is for those people who just want a bunch of books (oops, that's me). But even I, who bought all the Race, Complete, and Class books, won't get this one.
C-Fb
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Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
Edited by - The Sage on 12 Aug 2005 02:06:45 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36868 Posts |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2005 : 05:33:24
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C'mon guys. This one --at least on its face-- seems like it's taylor made for the Rashemi.
Granted the Rashemi focus on spirit and place magic, but I think we'll see plenty that could easily be folded into Rashemen by a DM. |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2005 : 02:50:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
C'mon guys. This one --at least on its face-- seems like it's taylor made for the Rashemi.
Granted the Rashemi focus on spirit and place magic, but I think we'll see plenty that could easily be folded into Rashemen by a DM.
Hmm, I have no interest in this tome, and while you may have a point there (I'm too tired to try and work out anything rationally), my current campaign is nowhere near Rashemen. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2005 : 06:38:26
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The way I see it, no place is 'to far away' in the Realms when there are countless gates waiting to be found and used.
Still though the best course to me would be to wait and see. After all most of us already have a library's worth of books on hand to draw from anyway.
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09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
Edited by - Sanishiver on 25 Aug 2005 02:59:18 |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2005 : 03:11:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
The way I see it, no place is 'to far away' in the Realms when there are countless gates waiting to be found and used.
Still though the best course to me would be to wait and see. After all most of us already have a library's worth of books on hand to draw from anyway.
Just because there are portals "littering the countryside" doesn't mean that someone from Rashemen can be in a Silver Marches campaign though. Especially without a good backstory. |
News of the Weird
D20 System Reference Document
D20 Modern System Reference Document
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2005 : 03:19:39
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Actually, that's exactly what portals help to do.
The nice thing about the Realms is that its abundant history and flavor make even the most elementary back story possible.
Instant Rashemi Backstory: Rashemi berzerker is part of Hathran war party attacking Red Wizes who're trying to thief away secrets of place magic. Battle erupts and awakens heretofore unkown magic portal at sacred site. War Wiz spell blasts berzerker into (one-way) portal and out into the Silver Marches.
Other PC's take kindly to very lost berzerker, esp. after he proves super efficient at helping them slaughter orcs.
Party formed, play progresses.
See? Easy.
I wonder if Incarnum can be used to draw on the knowledge of the dead? I could see an evil NPC or two working to unearth Elven Tombs in Myth Drannor in order to get at the remains of long dead High Mages so's he can take the knowledge of their magic from them. |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1288 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2005 : 04:49:57
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It used to be that i would pick up EVERY D&D book possible.
THe races of X are ones I ALREADY see no need for, and now with this new book, I see one there will be absolutley NO NEED FOR.
If you need MORE PrC go ahead. But this sounds LAME.
Portal Backstory?
I would never allow anything so simple from my players.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2005 : 05:12:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
It used to be that i would pick up EVERY D&D book possible.
THe races of X are ones I ALREADY see no need for, and now with this new book, I see one there will be absolutley NO NEED FOR.
If you need MORE PrC go ahead. But this sounds LAME.
Portal Backstory?
I would never allow anything so simple from my players.
Yep. Unless maybe, just maybe they were of mid to high level, then I might buy it. But more likely not. |
News of the Weird
D20 System Reference Document
D20 Modern System Reference Document
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2005 : 07:24:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Portal Backstory?
I would never allow anything so simple from my players.
Aye, some DM's wouldn't.
But not all DMs and not all players have the time or desire like us hardcore Realms fans to come up with a more fact filled back story.
Which is one of many reasons why portals (or Gates, for you old timers out there) exist in the Realms.
***
I wonder if Incarnum can be thought of as some sort of spirit echo in the Weave, esp. for magic using creatures. That'd explain away a lot of the ghostly spirits of mages flitting to and fro.
I'll have to take an extended peak at my FLGS when this book comes out. (Though I won't be buying a races book anytime soon). |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1288 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2005 : 03:02:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Portal Backstory?
I would never allow anything so simple from my players.
Aye, some DM's wouldn't.
But not all DMs and not all players have the time or desire like us hardcore Realms fans to come up with a more fact filled back story.
Which is one of many reasons why portals (or Gates, for you old timers out there) exist in the Realms.
***
I wonder if Incarnum can be thought of as some sort of spirit echo in the Weave, esp. for magic using creatures. That'd explain away a lot of the ghostly spirits of mages flitting to and fro.
I'll have to take an extended peak at my FLGS when this book comes out. (Though I won't be buying a races book anytime soon).
That is all good logic, and maybe it would work that way. But honestly I see no reason for ANOTHER magic system. It just leads to redundancy.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2005 : 03:49:22
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But does it?
Note I'm not trying to play devil's advocate here.
What I'm saying is that even in 3.5 we still don't have anywhere near the variety and kinds of game rules that would be required to properly portray the countless ways of magic and kinds of magical effects and beings that exist in Faerûn.
Fortunately I've discovered over these past 5-6 years that non-Realms D20 products and non-Realms WotC products often include new game rules that are perfect for simulating some unique Faerûnian-type magic (Monte Cook's Books of Eldritch Might come to mind).
That’s why I can feel reasonably positive about Magic of Incarnum.
I guess it depends on how we as DM's and players view the adequacy of the Core magic rules in simulating Faerûn's diverse magic.
As always there's plenty of room for differing opinions, of course, because each person’s views and game needs/preferences are different. |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2005 : 04:00:37
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On the one hand, I don't mind different types of magic, and yes, Faerun seems to have an abundance of different arcane traditions, so thats all good. I like the Book of Eldritch Might, and I am still trying to look into working the magic from "When the Sky Falls" into the campaign as well. In fact, I am quite interested in seeing if the Tome of Magic: Pact, Shadow, and Truename book will jive properly with Faerun, becuase it sound intriuging to me.
But, and maybe its the marketing departments fault, this whole Incarnum things sounds too much like some kind of psionics/magic gooey touchy feeling completely brand new rules for some new kind of magic type of thing. That doesn't mean I am going to dismiss it totally. When I have a day off that I don't have dedicated to something else, I'll likely spend some time in Barnes and Noble in a nice comfy chair for a few hours reading through it and seeing if it trips any creative bells within my mind. If not . . . its off the list. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2005 : 03:22:27
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Hmm . . . this is really starting to seem like a new paradigm, not just a new magic system. Such major things being tacked on and saying that they were "always there" either streaches things too much, or just sits there apart from the rest of the campaign setting. Psionics has been in the game since the begining, it just got more developed. I wouldn't introduce all of the races from the Expanded Psionics Handbook, but the powers and classes arent't too extreem. But the fact that there is the soul energy and melds and such all this time and no one knew about it, or everyone knew about it be WE the player's didn't, it just damaged the suspension of disbeleif.
Or to put it more succinctly . . . who knew the Force was with Dungeons and Dragons? Why did we rename the jedi anyway? (Sorry, the description of Incarnum sounds very much like the Force to me)
Then again, maybe I am jumping to conclusions. Whenever so many new terms and names for things are introduced in the preview, it really makes it hard to see the new work as easily adaptable to an existing campaign. |
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Tifus Artwin
Acolyte
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2005 : 09:10:02
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Hmmm, I just looked over this book, and after reading the Introduction, I do not think I will even pick the book up let alone buy it.
Just to rant a bit, Who the HELL does WotC think they are to use paganistic beleifs, what gives them the right to change what is, and is not correct about an existing beleif system? They was doing good, sticking to more or less dead faiths for aspects of the game that have made it more believable, but now in an "attempt" to make something new, they have just walked all over a part of 3 religions that I know of personanly.
Now we are going to be at it again it looks like, adding in existing, and still USED Paginistic/Druidic/Hinduism(sp?)material is just asking for trouble.
(refering to the use of Chakras)
Anyway, Im done ranting just had to get that out, sorry all.
~Tifus |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2005 : 17:18:13
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Well......
I'm pagan as well and I don't mind them using old beliefs. There are pagan elements in d&d, there are christian elements, etc. It happens. :)
But this is really off topic and it's also a touchy subject. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2005 : 02:43:11
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Yeah - it is a touchy subject.
The majority of D&D is based on a lot of old paganistic beliefs. Heck, magic itself is a bit paganistic as the Bible tells us that no one should practice another belief let alone magic. But hey, WotC is just giving people who don't like the current system an alternative.
And if you have a beef with that, the majority of the Devils listed in the Fiend Folio are derivatives of Paganistic demons. But hey, it's not supposed to be about real believes, just fun...
Let it ride!
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2005 : 03:09:25
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Such major things being tacked on and saying that they were "always there" either stretches things too much, or just sits there apart from the rest of the campaign setting.
I don't think it's fair to say this is what Magic of Incarnum -- or any splatbook for that matter -- is saying.
These books present optional rules that can be used to augment an existing campaign (Published or Homebrew) or to help start one up.
Additionally, Ed has hinted time and again at the variety of different kinds of magic in the Realms (casting styles, forms of Magic, etc) … so I don’t think it stretches plausibility to figure there are other, as yet undiscovered or little-heard of forms of Magic in Faerun.
And since the Incarnum rules are optional to begin with, DMs don’t have to include it if they don’t want to.
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Mathias Covencraft
Acolyte
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2005 : 22:39:53
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| I just hope characters don't have to get incarnum specific feats in orders to use incarnum type feats..."Cobalt Strike" is a feat i have in mind for another mounted-paladin of mine that is Epic level. *grins to himself* |
Paladin of Kelemvor 6/Hunter of the dead 3/Sword of Righteousness 3
Kelemvor comes for us all. Except it. Fear not the night, it is I who stalk "Those Who Do Not Sleep". -Mathias Covencraft |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2005 : 01:25:30
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Honestly, I always try to be openminded about new products. I really don't have a problem with integrating new magic systems and the like into the game, but some things seem like they SHOULD have been noticed before history wise . . . but hey, I still haven't got a chance to read through it at Border's or anything, so I can't say anything for sure.
Then again, my innitial fear that Incarnum is essentially the Force for D&D isn't helped much by this particular picture:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/moi_gallery/91024.jpg |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 15:24:12
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ROTFL....
I should have come back to this thread before... that is a awesome picture, and nothing like Force Lightning what so ever.
Honestly, though, I never picked up on this new book being like the Force for D&D, I thought it was some metaphysical thing where you can harvest souls and stick them in items, or use them to cast powerful magics.
However, if it is like the force, well... then I will just create characters using my d20 SWRPG book and bring them in rather than buying this book.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 17:31:18
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I dunno. When I first read about Incarnum, and noticed that a lot of the example feats use blue as the color of soulstuff, the first thing I thought of was the scene from Tantras, where Torm looks down at one of his wounds and witnesses the blue soulstuff escaping. Maybe a bit heavy-duty for what Magic of Incarnum is presenting, but it doesn't seem all that hard to me to fit this into the Realms.
Could just be me, though. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 18:38:16
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| When I read about the book, I never thought that this was a Force ripoff. I liked the concept of incarnum. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 18:41:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Tifus Artwin
Hmmm, I just looked over this book, and after reading the Introduction, I do not think I will even pick the book up let alone buy it.
Just to rant a bit, Who the HELL does WotC think they are to use paganistic beleifs, what gives them the right to change what is, and is not correct about an existing beleif system? They was doing good, sticking to more or less dead faiths for aspects of the game that have made it more believable, but now in an "attempt" to make something new, they have just walked all over a part of 3 religions that I know of personanly.
Now we are going to be at it again it looks like, adding in existing, and still USED Paginistic/Druidic/Hinduism(sp?)material is just asking for trouble.
(refering to the use of Chakras)
Anyway, Im done ranting just had to get that out, sorry all.
~Tifus
I`m sorry, but I don`t understand why you are upset. This book is a work of fiction, so what`s the problem? I honestly don`t get it.
Ps. What exactly is meant by paganism? Is it just what the christian church calls basically all other religions? |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5696 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 19:16:13
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
Ps. What exactly is meant by paganism? Is it just what the christian church calls basically all other religions?
Well met
Not at all, khorne. Ye can find many resources on the web regarding the pagan beliefs which should further enlighten ye. I don't wish us to get into a debate about real-world religion herein, and certainly don't believe that WotC meant any disrespect to any similarities contained within Magic of Incarnum.
Now, let us move on to discussing this tome and it's uses within a campaign  |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2005 : 20:25:21
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Yeah, even though it may not be just like the force, that picture is great. That is the basic picture of Force Lightning!
Ok, seriously, I am going to pick this book up tomorrow and see if it does have anything to offer in way of my campaign. I just hope it's not trying to rework magic in a fairly dumb way - such as the Warlock (my opinion).
I hope it has new avenues to explore and new arcs that can be used in my current FR campaigns.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2005 : 04:09:02
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Ok, so I picked this book up....
I've gone through the first couple of chapters... and it's kind of a weird system, but could come in handy.
The new races are not very well done... kind of reminds me of the new races from the "Races of..." series.
The new classes are on par with the others. Mostly, I think this book will allow some more "pariah" players some options. By pariah players, I mean those gamers who will always pick something so out there and unusual that it never works with the other party members.
As I read more, I will get more indepth...
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Magic of Incarnum
