| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 16 Aug 2009 : 09:30:46
Wizards will be releasing Dark Sun for 2010. I am kinda excited about it. It looks like the setting will be re-set to the Original Box set. With the 4E Goodness added to it
The Announcement
Product Spotlight
What are your thoughts about this fellow scribes?
And please no bashing.
This maybe my 4E Setting of Choice. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Silverblade The Enchanter |
Posted - 17 Aug 2010 : 22:45:08
The Sage
if Spelljammer had come out after Priates of the Caribbean, folk would have "grokked" it AND the humour, too ;)
Giant Space Hamster special attack: Cheeck Pouching, swallow whole and stuffs you in it's cheek pouch...haha how embrassing for an uber adventuter to be "pouched"!! :D
Yeah wish some folks would lighten up and realize you gotta have a laugh at yerself a bit, be it personal or a game or whatever :)
Well I'd say the Realms at initial release had a real rough, frontier feel to all of it outside the cities that appealled to me, also the original boxed set had the most gorgeous art and layout. that set the tone. it was "mysterious", problem is when you fill in too many gaps, the mystery goes and thus, the magic.
the 3rd Ed FRCS book was like wise awesome in quality of product, just by then too "filled in" for me to like DMing, playing is another matter, oddly enough, lol.
the second and third 2nd ed boxed sets sucked, especially the last one, IMHO, ugh found that very shoddy in quality (print layout etc I mean was badly set up, lot of the interior art etc was just diabolical, sigh)
|
| The Sage |
Posted - 17 Aug 2010 : 08:20:31
quote:
Originally posted by Silverblade The Enchanter
On a more serious note, I loved the humour in Spelljammer, it's needed, you have FLEETS of neogi, beholders and Illithids out there in Wildspace.
It's space pirates. You can't not have humour. 
quote:
You have to have ups and downs. I find gnomes hilarious and uplifting, and use them just as I do really dark & nasty stuff with illithids.
Combining the two concepts works just as well.
quote:
Dark Sun and Spelljammer were my fave settigns of all :)
sorry, loved the original boxed set of the Realms but...it got too over done for my tastes, sigh, great setting for books and computer games, just not for me as a DM, I like more space to work and "Wildness", ya know?
There's still plenty of "wildness" left in the Realms. 'Twas true in the days of 1e and 2e as well. For everything that was published under the Realms brand in the earlier edition-days, we know from Ed that there was still plenty left to be told -- whole countries and/or continents, even planes and planets, left undiscovered and unexplored.
quote:
oh yeah, on the "cutesy fun factor" many didn't like in Spelljammer, well, Spelljammer had THE nastiest monster ever in D&D history, IMHO:
Witchlight Marauders, 'nuff said ;)
The mark of any truly well-crafted campaign setting is it's ability to not take itself too seriously all the time. SPELLJAMMER succeeded in that regard.
|
| Silverblade The Enchanter |
Posted - 17 Aug 2010 : 07:40:50
I loves me them Giant Space Hamsters, oh yeah! Come back, Boo, all is forgiven! *squeak!* :p
On a more serious note, I loved the humour in Spelljammer, it's needed, you have FLEETS of neogi, beholders and Illithids out there in Wildspace.
Nothing quite says FUBAR quite like encountering "2d4 beholders", does it? hehe.
You have to have ups and downs. I find gnomes hilarious and uplifting, and use them just as I do really dark & nasty stuff with illithids.
Dark Sun and Spelljammer were my fave settigns of all :)
sorry, loved the original boxed set of the Realms but...it got too over done for my tastes, sigh, great setting for books and computer games, just not for me as a DM, I like more space to work and "Wildness", ya know?
However, ALL those settings had awesome imagery and imagination, for all that folk complained TSR put out too much, I disagree, it released a huge load of fertile ideas and wonders, which have stayed with many even now. you have to try and do a lot, to make the gems that folk prize
Hence why my D&D art is mostly about Spelljammer followed by Dark Sun then the Realms. Artwork for them was OUTSTANDING!
Brom, Clyde Caldwell, Jeff Easley, Keith parksin, etc...man-o-man!
oh yeah, on the "cutesy fun factor" many didn't like in Spelljammer, well, Spelljammer had THE nastiest monster ever in D&D history, IMHO:
Witchlight Marauders, 'nuff said ;)
3rd and especially 4th ed works much better with the quirkiness of deisgning characters for Dark Sun and other settings, you always had problems in 2nd ed, with racial limits etc, and the very ugly dual-classing
now it's much better, for example,
templars in Dark Sun are often bureacrats, sages, oversee important community items like fountains and city walls etc, and lead military units
2nd ed made them a form of cleric. which was...lacking
now in 4th ed they can be Warlords (perfect for military leaders especially Hammanu's units)
you can make a NPC templar with almost no combat ability, a "minion" but with good social skills and one or two spells ot avoid harm (Bureaucrat) his threat is his bodyguards, it's dealing with him as a "person" not as a "D&D monster" is what's tricky.
and the 4th ed rules show Warlock templars, now that makes good sense! a pact with the sorceror king, muhaha! ;) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 05 Apr 2010 : 10:46:51
Yep. Been looking forward to this. As such, I've been re-reading the old books as a kind of "re-primer" for DARK SUN fiction. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 05 Apr 2010 : 09:44:45
I see that a new Dark Sun Novel is forth coming.
City under the Sand |
| Quale |
Posted - 27 Aug 2009 : 15:38:10
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
[quote]Originally posted by Quale
 Hey! Birthright was the best thing TSR produced setting-wise for late 2E... I realise that's not saying much, but it was different and the world was perfect for political/military-style gaming, which gave D&D its best edge ever against traditional wargames since it was a wargame (the original Chainmail)... the less said about the early 3E-era Chainmail revival, the better... [xx(
For D&D I don't think it's good, for wargames I don't know. I like the idea of spilled divine essences, only that. |
| Quale |
Posted - 27 Aug 2009 : 15:34:39
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Someone asked in Rich's thread and he said that they don't have any plans for Spelljammer/Planescape in the next few years.
I only recently became familiar with Spelljammer. It is full of unique and interesting ideas. Don't consider the hamsters silly at all. I'd like to use the setting primarily for sailing through the planes, not through space, so it would add a lot of depth to the Planescape campaign material.
To be on topic, imo Dark Sun belongs with settings like Birthright, Council of Wyrms and Maztica. I don't see what's so great about it, space hamsters are more believable than some of the weird stuff in Athas, particularly don't like the extinction wars.
Well, I've always considered the Giant Space Hamsters to be one of the sillier aspects of the setting... I mean, giant hamsters? I can't take something like that seriously -- which was part of why I chose this username!
Adapting Spelljammer to have more planar aspects works readily for me, though. I've thought of it myself... And I've also considered an alternate look at spelljamming helms; with a minor tweak, it would work well for propelling ships thru the Astral, in particular -- and there's already a Dragon article that detailed Astral ships ("Voidjammers", Dragon 159, the same one that was chock full of Spelljammer goodness).
Dark Sun was an interesting setting to me, but a little too heavy on the whole environmental issue -- I'm quite sensitive to being preached to, and the whole desolate landscape and preserver/defiler thing was about as close as you can get to preaching without being overt about it.
I liked Ravenloft, too, but I wasn't a huge fan. In that one, it was the inescapable aspect that bothered me. I realize that that's a huge part of horror, but in an RPG, I want more of a victory than having a character survive and retain his sanity.
I didn't really know too much about the other settings, but I was always interested in Mystara. I'd love to see that one get some love.
I like a bit of silliness in space, I rarely played in Realmspace, but when we did I even used the Hitchiker's Guide stuff for some inspiration, e.g. there was a ''paranoid android'' modron (arcanaloths
from Pluton were behind it).
In the Dark Sun some things just seem weird for the sake of being weird. And I never liked to use bugs, scorpions, lizards and dinosaur-people much. I rather play a ''survivalist'' type of game in Raurin, the Plains of the Purple Dust, parts of Eastern Shaar that I made less grassy and Zakhara which I turned into an undead continent with mummified Jergal's huskreen.
Ravenloft, the only things I borrowed from there are the shadow fey, and dhampyrs, for people that were like the Fremen but conserved blood instead. It's more exciting when you play a horror type of game in a setting where everyone doesn't expect that there will be horror.
Mystara, I think it's less cohesive than the Realms with all the cultures thrown in together. The parts I use is the Five Shires for Luiren and parts of Glantri for Tethyr, cause of the demihumans there. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 27 Aug 2009 : 01:01:01
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Well, I've always considered the Giant Space Hamsters to be one of the sillier aspects of the setting... I mean, giant hamsters? I can't take something like that seriously -- which was part of why I chose this username!
I've always wanted to use the giant space hamsters in my SJ campaigns. But I've just never found the right type of introduction for them. Considering their "silly status," they're not a particularly easy critter to write for.
quote:
Adapting Spelljammer to have more planar aspects works readily for me, though. I've thought of it myself... And I've also considered an alternate look at spelljamming helms; with a minor tweak, it would work well for propelling ships thru the Astral, in particular -- and there's already a Dragon article that detailed Astral ships ("Voidjammers", Dragon 159, the same one that was chock full of Spelljammer goodness).
I've pretty much attempted all that already. I've greatly expanded on the amount of crystal spheres and the planar structure for the campaign setting. Even borrowing ideas from the multiverses of both Marvel and DC, as well as other fantasy/sci-fi worlds.
Tweaking the spelljammer helms often leads to unexpected but fascinating results. And I'll note that the spelljammer.org site offers some intriguing possibilities also.
It's been fun.
quote:
Dark Sun was an interesting setting to me, but a little too heavy on the whole environmental issue -- I'm quite sensitive to being preached to, and the whole desolate landscape and preserver/defiler thing was about as close as you can get to preaching without being overt about it.
I've always been intrigued by the world. I purchased all of the supplements as they were released, and read all the novels. But I've never had the opportunity to run campaigns in DARK SUN.
quote:
I liked Ravenloft, too, but I wasn't a huge fan. In that one, it was the inescapable aspect that bothered me. I realize that that's a huge part of horror, but in an RPG, I want more of a victory than having a character survive and retain his sanity.
RAVENLOFT, along with DRAGONLANCE, was my original TSR RPG love. Then, with the publication of the Realms, and eventually PLANESCAPE, I suddenly had other favourites too.
It's been a wild ride!
quote:
I didn't really know too much about the other settings, but I was always interested in Mystara. I'd love to see that one get some love.
MYSTARA's fun, but I found BIRTHRIGHT to be more appealing in the short-term. MYSTARA has plenty of setting depth, though, but it takes a long time to work through some of the stuff.
|
| Jakk |
Posted - 26 Aug 2009 : 19:51:14
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
<snip>Spelljammer is my first love when it comes to D&D settings, but I don't think it will ever be updated. <chop> Additionally, the way the cosmologies all just juggled around means that now it may or may not be possible to travel thru space from one campaign setting to another, despite the fact that it was previously possible.
a) Really? Never would have guessed! 
b) Sadly, I agree with you regarding its fate as a setting.
c) I plan on my own planar juggling, one that does not involve the ending of the Blood War or the elimination of a common medium for all worlds. More info as it becomes available...  |
| Jakk |
Posted - 26 Aug 2009 : 19:46:28
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
<snip>To be on topic, imo Dark Sun belongs with settings like Birthright, Council of Wyrms and Maztica. I don't see what's so great about it, space hamsters are more believable than some of the weird stuff in Athas, particularly don't like the extinction wars.
Hey! Birthright was the best thing TSR produced setting-wise for late 2E... I realise that's not saying much, but it was different and the world was perfect for political/military-style gaming, which gave D&D its best edge ever against traditional wargames since it was a wargame (the original Chainmail)... the less said about the early 3E-era Chainmail revival, the better... 
I agree with your assessment of CoW and Maztica... but I still think that nuking the landmass was not the way to get rid of the latter.  |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 26 Aug 2009 : 19:33:10
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Someone asked in Rich's thread and he said that they don't have any plans for Spelljammer/Planescape in the next few years.
I only recently became familiar with Spelljammer. It is full of unique and interesting ideas. Don't consider the hamsters silly at all. I'd like to use the setting primarily for sailing through the planes, not through space, so it would add a lot of depth to the Planescape campaign material.
To be on topic, imo Dark Sun belongs with settings like Birthright, Council of Wyrms and Maztica. I don't see what's so great about it, space hamsters are more believable than some of the weird stuff in Athas, particularly don't like the extinction wars.
Well, I've always considered the Giant Space Hamsters to be one of the sillier aspects of the setting... I mean, giant hamsters? I can't take something like that seriously -- which was part of why I chose this username!
Adapting Spelljammer to have more planar aspects works readily for me, though. I've thought of it myself... And I've also considered an alternate look at spelljamming helms; with a minor tweak, it would work well for propelling ships thru the Astral, in particular -- and there's already a Dragon article that detailed Astral ships ("Voidjammers", Dragon 159, the same one that was chock full of Spelljammer goodness).
Dark Sun was an interesting setting to me, but a little too heavy on the whole environmental issue -- I'm quite sensitive to being preached to, and the whole desolate landscape and preserver/defiler thing was about as close as you can get to preaching without being overt about it.
I liked Ravenloft, too, but I wasn't a huge fan. In that one, it was the inescapable aspect that bothered me. I realize that that's a huge part of horror, but in an RPG, I want more of a victory than having a character survive and retain his sanity.
I didn't really know too much about the other settings, but I was always interested in Mystara. I'd love to see that one get some love. |
| Quale |
Posted - 26 Aug 2009 : 15:35:45
Someone asked in Rich's thread and he said that they don't have any plans for Spelljammer/Planescape in the next few years.
I only recently became familiar with Spelljammer. It is full of unique and interesting ideas. Don't consider the hamsters silly at all. I'd like to use the setting primarily for sailing through the planes, not through space, so it would add a lot of depth to the Planescape campaign material.
To be on topic, imo Dark Sun belongs with settings like Birthright, Council of Wyrms and Maztica. I don't see what's so great about it, space hamsters are more believable than some of the weird stuff in Athas, particularly don't like the extinction wars. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 15:22:49
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Not surprising. Non-tolkienesque, darker fantasy is really popular these days.
Wotc had much better settings available, first of all Al-Qadim or a combination of Planescape and Spelljammer. They did a good job with ECG, it will probably turn out without catastrophic failures. I'd rather play in the Dying Earth, or FR with some of its elements.
Spelljammer is my first love when it comes to D&D settings, but I don't think it will ever be updated. The idea of space travel in D&D was too much for a lot of people, and the mechanics of how it was done threw a lot more people. It didn't help that they got a little silly with some stuff (like Giant Space Hamsters) or lifted stuff directed from Japanese movies (like the bionoid or the gamarroid). They did a partial rules update of the setting for a 3E module, but the update didn't extend past the boundaries of the adventure, and in my opinion, what little there was of it really reshaped things and took some of the magic from the setting. Additionally, the way the cosmologies all just juggled around means that now it may or may not be possible to travel thru space from one campaign setting to another, despite the fact that it was previously possible. |
| Chosen of Moradin |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 13:24:31
Nah! Dark Sun is popular from the very beggining of the Setting. 
And you´re right, Quale. WotC have a real ammunition of good Campaign Settings to launch upon us! Dark Sun, Al Qadim, Birthright, and all the others....
Moradin´s beard! I´m already dreaming of 2011 Campaign Setting. ^^ |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 13:12:19
Athas.org is up again. |
| Quale |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 10:09:13
Not surprising. Non-tolkienesque, darker fantasy is really popular these days.
Wotc had much better settings available, first of all Al-Qadim or a combination of Planescape and Spelljammer. They did a good job with ECG, it will probably turn out without catastrophic failures. I'd rather play in the Dying Earth, or FR with some of its elements. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 18 Aug 2009 : 18:19:53
Well, the next time you play just keep talking about Athas with the player that is excited. Excitement is contagious, so... |
| Mr_Miscellany |
Posted - 18 Aug 2009 : 13:39:31
Last night I asked the players in our Monday Realms game about the re-release.
One didn't know what DS was, two were middle-road on it and one was totally excited and couldn't wait. I think I'll sit back and hope that last guy buys it, so I can try playing in 4E for a change instead of DMing it. |
| Tyr |
Posted - 17 Aug 2009 : 22:55:55
lol, wait until you hear they're planning an anti-cataclysm for Athas, so its now a verdant paradise, full of fluffy bunnies, gnomes and paladins! |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 17 Aug 2009 : 08:55:49
Its always been grittier and darker than D&D. That has been my understanding of it. From what I have seen people post on the WoTc Forums, I think I am right. I will know in the near future when I start ordering old Dark Sun Products. |
| Tyr |
Posted - 17 Aug 2009 : 07:59:09
Based on the interview talk about Dark Sun, have they always been trying to pass 4e off as the darker and edgier version of D&D or is this a new thing? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 17 Aug 2009 : 07:46:13
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
It looks as if Athas.org is down.
Aye. If you search through the Internet's Way Back machine though, you'll likely find most of their old 3e DS downloads.
Hrm... it appears to be back up now; I guess the domain name license was renewed. At least, it's working for me, and I've cleared my cache and temporary files and refreshed the page to triple-check. Can anyone else confirm?
I got the domain name expired message. Of course, if they just re-upped it today, it might take a little time to propagate the new site info to all the appropriate servers.
That'd be my guess too.
Anyways, 'tis working for me as well.
|
| Brimstone |
Posted - 17 Aug 2009 : 07:11:19
Speculation: It might also be why Wizards released the Fan Site Policy when they did.
I know I am looking forward to this release. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 17 Aug 2009 : 07:03:03
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
It looks as if Athas.org is down.
Aye. If you search through the Internet's Way Back machine though, you'll likely find most of their old 3e DS downloads.
Hrm... it appears to be back up now; I guess the domain name license was renewed. At least, it's working for me, and I've cleared my cache and temporary files and refreshed the page to triple-check. Can anyone else confirm?
I got the domain name expired message. Of course, if they just re-upped it today, it might take a little time to propagate the new site info to all the appropriate servers. |
| Jakk |
Posted - 17 Aug 2009 : 06:06:23
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
It looks as if Athas.org is down.
Aye. If you search through the Internet's Way Back machine though, you'll likely find most of their old 3e DS downloads.
Hrm... it appears to be back up now; I guess the domain name license was renewed. At least, it's working for me, and I've cleared my cache and temporary files and refreshed the page to triple-check. Can anyone else confirm? |
| coach |
Posted - 17 Aug 2009 : 02:49:13
oops sorry just read the two other posts noting that athas.org is down |
| Dark Wizard |
Posted - 17 Aug 2009 : 02:41:56
Given WotC's direction, Dark Sun seemed the most likely setting after Eberron. It maximizes differences from the previous annual setting. I am intrigued by their approach to start from the beginning and leaving the revision version of the setting as an option. |
| coach |
Posted - 17 Aug 2009 : 02:41:49
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'm definitely interested.
And I'm also curious to see what, if anything, the designers responsible for this 4e update might have included from the athas.org "as-close-to-official" 3e update for the setting.
the url you posted interested me so i tried to go see it but got this message:
"athas.org expired on 08/10/2009 and is pending renewal or deletion" |
| The Sage |
Posted - 17 Aug 2009 : 01:30:21
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
It looks as if Athas.org is down.
Aye. If you search through the Internet's Way Back machine though, you'll likely find most of their old 3e DS downloads.
|
| Brimstone |
Posted - 17 Aug 2009 : 01:05:53
It looks as if Athas.org is down.
I think Wizards just has a way of hyping their own products. This is going to rock, that will be awesome. It is what it is.
I never really got into Dark Sun to begin with so if they do reset the setting, it no big deal to me.
Now I understand that it might be a problem to someone who has played in the setting from the beginning.
I am looking forward to this release. 
#800 |
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