| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| SirUrza |
Posted - 18 Mar 2008 : 23:46:12
Oh my. The redone Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, and Wizard all look interesting, sadly I fear I won't get to use these since my friends aren't interested in a third options, it's 3.5 or 4.. now 3.somethingElse. |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Markustay |
Posted - 08 Jul 2008 : 04:27:54
Well, it takes the place of all the maneuverabilty stuff that former editions dealt with - with a skill, we have a decent scale to rate everything against, and now players must surrender a few points if they want become like the 'Blue Angels'.
People can still cast a spell or drink a potion or whatever, but then they are using the skill untrained, and they are just as likely to slam into a wall as they are to make a nose-dive and last-minute arial loop or barrel-roll.
The idea isn't to just fix the common problems everyone knows about (like Polymorph), but rather fix ALL the problems so they don't arise in our games in the first place.
And some races, like Tieflings, Dragonborn, and even Elves (Avarials) can fly (or at least have a chance to at later levels using Feats), and it makes sense to give this ability its own skill - otherwise you'd have people who just got on a broom for the first time flying as well as an Aarakocra who was born with his wings.
Hmmmm... that broom reference just made me realize that adding that skill in makes it much easier to do a 'Harry Potter' setting.
I wonder... nahhhhh... she certainly doesn't need the money... |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 04 Jul 2008 : 08:34:17
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by dwarvenranger
Do you mean the Fly skill?
Thats the one.
At first I, like so many others, were like "why?"
But people like you and I haven't run into the problem that that particular fix was trying to address, and now that I am aware of how people were abusing a rule (or lack thereof), I can get behind it.
It seems a lot of groups get their entire party 'airborn' ASAP, which gives them an incredible advantage, and makes the DM's job a nightmare. With the new rule, people don't automatically become "the Red Baron" by casting a spell, drinking a potion, or hopping onto a broom or carpet. Without any sortof skill attached to it, players were walking all over their DMs, and doing complex arial maneuvers and strafing-attacks.
Even the Terrasque goes down easy when the whole party is high in the sky!
So, now if you want to fly (well), you need to surrender some skill points, and you have a stat to make rolls agaist for all the craziness people used to get away with for free.
True, in most games (like yours and mine) it never came up, but Pathfinder is all about finding the broken spots in 3e and fixing them, and this was obviously one of those that most of us missed.
Oh... and the folks that are screaming the loudest about it over on the Paizo boards all happen to be the players that were taking advantage of the situation before. 
I most definitely would have folded 'Fly' into 'Acrobatics' or 'Spellcraft'. But James said that they "have some plans for the skill", so I'm guessing it is meant for flying monsters, most likely. Still, it feels silly -- why not give them an (EX) ability that lets them use an untrained Acrobatics with heavy bonuses? |
| dwarvenranger |
Posted - 02 Jul 2008 : 02:16:19
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Oh... and the folks that are screaming the loudest about it over on the Paizo boards all happen to be the players that were taking advantage of the situation before.
Well, like a certain rashemi beserker was fond of saying, "The squeaky wheel gets the kick"! |
| Markustay |
Posted - 01 Jul 2008 : 22:04:09
quote:
Originally posted by dwarvenranger
Do you mean the Fly skill?
Thats the one.
At first I, like so many others, were like "why?"
But people like you and I haven't run into the problem that that particular fix was trying to address, and now that I am aware of how people were abusing a rule (or lack thereof), I can get behind it.
It seems a lot of groups get their entire party 'airborn' ASAP, which gives them an incredible advantage, and makes the DM's job a nightmare. With the new rule, people don't automatically become "the Red Baron" by casting a spell, drinking a potion, or hopping onto a broom or carpet. Without any sortof skill attached to it, players were walking all over their DMs, and doing complex arial maneuvers and strafing-attacks.
Even the Terrasque goes down easy when the whole party is high in the sky!
So, now if you want to fly (well), you need to surrender some skill points, and you have a stat to make rolls agaist for all the craziness people used to get away with for free.
True, in most games (like yours and mine) it never came up, but Pathfinder is all about finding the broken spots in 3e and fixing them, and this was obviously one of those that most of us missed.
Oh... and the folks that are screaming the loudest about it over on the Paizo boards all happen to be the players that were taking advantage of the situation before. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 01 Jul 2008 : 16:33:32
quote:
Originally posted by Green Giant
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
Has anyone downloaded my Pathfinder Character Sheet (you can find a link to it in my sig)? I was just wondering because I am always looking for constructive criticism on ways to improve my character sheets.
Other than the misspelling of Combat Maneuver Bonus initials, I think you've covered everything.
Thanks for catching that, only one mis-spelling on an early attempt at a character sheet for a new(ish) rules set is not bad for me.  I will have to change that and get 1.2 up soon. Any other critiques/suggestions? I like to do multiple changes all at once. |
| dwarvenranger |
Posted - 01 Jul 2008 : 15:15:27
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
They combined several skills, and even created a new one (thats a first... and VERY controversial).
Do you mean the Fly skill? If so I rather think it's unnecesary, but then again flight rarely comes up in any games I play in or run, YMMV.
One thing that really sticks out to me at least is how they made all the classes interesting for 20 levels. I always prefered PrC's as I usually got bored with a class after lv 10 or so (sometimes sooner depending on the class). With the changes they've made I can actually envision playing a class to lv 20. |
| MerrikCale |
Posted - 01 Jul 2008 : 03:31:02
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The 'Bloodlines' thing for Sorcerors is phenomenal - now Sorceror's are a whole seperate class, not just a "poor man's wizard".
yeah, That really jumped out at me too. I love it. I hope that WoTc does something like this in 4e. It does make the Sorcerer something different |
| Green Giant |
Posted - 01 Jul 2008 : 02:57:00
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
Has anyone downloaded my Pathfinder Character Sheet (you can find a link to it in my sig)? I was just wondering because I am always looking for constructive criticism on ways to improve my character sheets.
Other than the misspelling of Combat Maneuver Bonus initials, I think you've covered everything. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 01 Jul 2008 : 01:36:15
This is indeed the place for such things - only in this sub-forum are non-FR topics (concerning D&D/D20 of course) to be discussed. We don't have a seperate sub-forum for 3rd party D20, so everything ends up here in the 'Core' section.
So go ahead, and review away.
In a nutshell, my review would be - Pathfinder attempts to fix many of the shortcomings of the 3e system, without building an entire new system from scratch. Its still 3e at its core, but its been "fine-tuned", and will continue to recieve this sort of attention to detail over the next year (before the final comes out).
Is is it successful at what it's trying to do? That remains to be seen... so far, I would say 95% of the changes are things that really needed to be addressed (like balancing Druids against every other class), and at that I would say they've been immensly successful. The 'Bloodlines' thing for Sorcerors is phenomenal - now Sorceror's are a whole seperate class, not just a "poor man's wizard". They've also added in some intersting options to character builds, allowing people more choices during character development (similar to what was done to the Ranger between 3.0 and 3.5, and also like those 'replacement levels' that appeared in several articles).
They also tried to do a little streamlining - one of the things 4e does well (perhaps a bit TOO well). They combined several skills, and even created a new one (thats a first... and VERY controversial).
Anyhow, I think its a hell of a start, but its far from done. I think with all the major playtesting they are doing over the next 11 months (by fans, not 'company men'), and the constant stream of suggestions pouring in from the fanbase, it's just going to get better, and may indeed take the crown when all is said and done.
The hardest part is going to be balancing 'ease of play' (which is 4e's bread and butter), with backward-compatibility. 3e was not meant to be 'fast and easy' - its a bit of a monolithic monstrosity, and Paizo has their work cut out for them ironing out all the rough patches. Fortunetly, a lot of that is stuff that Monte Cook's been tinkering with for awhile now with his own line, and now that he is onboard with Pathfinder, I think the 'dream-team' they've assembled will be able to pull it off.
And they are wrapping it around a wonderful NEW world - thats just icing on the cake. Although the final rules will be OGL, its nice that there is world attached that doesn't need to be wrecked for the sake of a new edition... the way Greyhawk and the Realms were.  |
| Gwydion669 |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 23:47:33
Query:
I'm still kind'a new around here and would like to get to know the place before steppin' on toes, spewin' on decorum, rapin' the horses and ridin' off on the women.
Would this thread be an appropriate place to do a quick 'n dirty review of Pathfinder? Or am I as virtually lost as I am lost in reality? |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 16:23:16
Has anyone downloaded my Pathfinder Character Sheet (you can find a link to it in my sig)? I was just wondering because I am always looking for constructive criticism on ways to improve my character sheets. |
| dwarvenranger |
Posted - 29 Jun 2008 : 22:56:58
Well, now I've played 4th ed. And even though I had low expectations, it still failed to meet them. So I am happier than ever that Paizo decided to run with the ball. And I must say I'm getting very excited by the talent they're bringing in. I mean their stuff was great before (Hallow's Last Hope and the Crown of the Kobold King were great mods IMO), it's just only looking up from here. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 29 Jun 2008 : 05:18:17
Yep - many folks already guessed it, but now it's official.
You really can't compare WotC's current lineup with some of the names Paizo's got now.
Someday in the future, this will be known as the 'Battle for D&D' - those who want to turn it into a mass-market toy, and those who fought to keep it true to it's roots.
Makes me wonder how many of the guys currently at WotC secretly wish they were on the other side, fighting the 'good fight'. Of course, being a dreamer doesn't pay the bills, and for a lot of folks being a 'rebel' just isn't worth your job security.
Still, no matter how this turns out, competition is always good news for us - the fans. It means everyone will be trying harder to impress us over the next year or so. |
| MerrikCale |
Posted - 29 Jun 2008 : 03:25:02
quote:
Originally posted by silverwizard
I just read an announcement on paizo.com saying that Sean K. Reynolds has joined Paizo Publishing!
http://paizo.com/paizo/news/v5748eaic9l9j
You beat me to it. Good score for the Paizo peeps |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 27 Jun 2008 : 18:46:04
Sweetness!!!
But he has been guessed as the new guy over at the forums...great nonethless to have it confirmed |
| silverwizard |
Posted - 27 Jun 2008 : 18:26:29
I just read an announcement on paizo.com saying that Sean K. Reynolds has joined Paizo Publishing!
http://paizo.com/paizo/news/v5748eaic9l9j |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 25 Jun 2008 : 22:34:32
Well, they didn't stop... so what I said cannot be true... the making sense part |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 25 Jun 2008 : 22:33:39
Yep, it does... and if I tell the truth them soccer oaf will stop shouting now! |
| Uzzy |
Posted - 25 Jun 2008 : 22:13:20
So, Goodman and Adamants get a special license, that doesn't let them use the D&D Logo or name, yet massive supporters of WoTC like Necromancer don't have a special license?
That makes sense.. |
| Hawkins |
Posted - 25 Jun 2008 : 20:56:56
quote:
Originally posted on the U.S. Copyright Office website
The idea for a game is not protected by copyright. The same is true of the name or title given to the game and of the method or methods for playing it.
Copyright protects only the particular manner of an author’s expression in literary, artistic, or musical form. Copyright protection does not extend to any idea, system, method, device, or trademark material involved in the development, merchandising, or playing of a game. Once a game has been made public, nothing in the copyright law prevents others from developing another game based on similar principles.
Some material prepared in connection with a game may be subject to copyright if it contains a sufficient amount of literary or pictorial expression. For example, the text matter describing the rules of the game, or the pictorial matter appearing on the gameboard or container, may be registrable.
|
| Brimstone |
Posted - 25 Jun 2008 : 20:34:04
-Nevermind, I am an idiot.
BRIMSTONE  |
| Markustay |
Posted - 25 Jun 2008 : 20:15:55
Thanks Delta (Brim - you are Delta, right?)
There is a much bigger legal team then Hasbro's - the Internet! Dozens of professional lawyers have been pouring over the license on several sites (for free - they're fans), and they really don't see why someone couldn't design products for use with 4e WITHOUT signing the license. In fact, they'd be in a much BETTER position, legally.
Once you sign that ridiculous GSL, WotC owns you body and soul, and thanks to a 'survivor clause', they can still continue to control you LONG after they cancel the license!
If you don't sign it, the worse they can do is tell you to stop, and bring you to court if you don't. Who is that going to cost more in the long run? When TSR brought Gygax to court for creating his own game system (Dangerous Journeys), they won... and they had to buy Gary's system from him for FAR MORE then it was worth, or that it would ever make. Some victory.
So let WotC bring dozens of tiny companies to court to protect an IP they may not even own any more (people are working on trying to prove the D&D IP has long stood unprotected, and by default is now public domain). In the long run, it will cost them more then those companies are worth, and the people who are behind those companies can easily start up the next day and do it all over again - thats the beauty of incorporating - it doesn't hold the shareholders lible for the actions of the company.
Every year these 'small timers' can pop-up and do whatever they like - they are like roaches - you never really get rid of them. You can step on them all you like, and in few weeks you have them back.
So, how long will it take for Hasbro's legal dept. to get fed up with constantly trying to protect WotC's IP, when the parent company already is cracking down and demanding more revenue from them?
I'm already looking forward to Fansite license - that should be a hoot.
Stop defending them Brian - I want to see this so-called 'license agreement' Goodman has with WotC - the guys at Paizo have already stated that there wasn't enough time to negotiate a seperate license afer the GSL came out. So either they're lying (the company with a near-perfect record of pleasing the fans) or WotC is... a company that has done nothing but fabricate half-truths for the past year.
Necromancer games, who is a partner of Paizo, is also releasing a 4e Adventure (the name escapes me ATM), and they have NO intention of signing anything with Wizards. You can't Copyright a ruleset - only the TEXT describing the rules. Use different words, and you're good to go. |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 25 Jun 2008 : 16:51:07
So...do http://www.adamantentertainment.com/ also have a seperate agreement with Hasbro/Wotzee? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 25 Jun 2008 : 14:08:27
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Markus, you crack me up sometimes buddy. Goodman Games isn't using the GSL because they went direct to WotC to negotiate a direct license agreement. They are not selling unlicensed 4e product behind Wizards back. No one wants Hasbro's lawyers breathing down their necks.
Can you state a source on that? I checked and rechecked Goodman Games site and didn't find any mention of such an agreement.
Even without the mention, I'm inclined to believe it. As Brian points out, Hasbro's got a much bigger legal team than most of the rest of the RPG world, and taking them on is just plain stupid. |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 25 Jun 2008 : 13:22:58
quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
Markus, you crack me up sometimes buddy. Goodman Games isn't using the GSL because they went direct to WotC to negotiate a direct license agreement. They are not selling unlicensed 4e product behind Wizards back. No one wants Hasbro's lawyers breathing down their necks.
Can you state a source on that? I checked and rechecked Goodman Games site and didn't find any mention of such an agreement. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 25 Jun 2008 : 07:24:18
-Here you go Markus http://paizo.com/store/blog#v5748dyo5l9en Its The second one "Revenge of the Kobold King. It's still free! 
BRIMSTONE |
| Brian R. James |
Posted - 25 Jun 2008 : 00:15:49
Markus, you crack me up sometimes buddy. Goodman Games isn't using the GSL because they went direct to WotC to negotiate a direct license agreement. They are not selling unlicensed 4e product behind Wizards back. No one wants Hasbro's lawyers breathing down their necks. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 24 Jun 2008 : 21:41:16
No - was it downloadable? I missed FREE RPG Day.
Anyhow, a couple of other things - Goodman Games, one of 4e/WotC supporters has produced a line of products for the 4e game... that will be released BEFORE the GSL date of Oct 1!
It seems that another shot has been launched across WotC's bow - they are producing 4e material with NO intention of signing the silly GSL!
At least one other company has also announced non-GSL 4e products, but the name slips my mind.
So 4e is indeed getting support, but not at all in the way WotC intended (outside of their control). Now I wish I had stuck with going to Gencon - I'd love to see the reaction of the WotC team when other vendors are selling unlicensed 4e products around them.
Plus, the printed version of Paizo's rules will be available for the first time at the Con. |
| Brimstone |
Posted - 24 Jun 2008 : 04:19:47
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
FACT in Evidence:
Pathfinder RPG has now come out with a logo that will allow 3rd parties to develop for PRPG... and they're lining up.
Read about Erik Mona's announcment HERE.
-So that was the Big announcement. BTW Markus did you get the FREE PDF that Paizo is giving away today. Revenge of the Kobold King.
BRIMSTONE |
| Markustay |
Posted - 24 Jun 2008 : 03:57:12
FACT in Evidence:
Pathfinder RPG has now come out with a logo that will allow 3rd parties to develop for PRPG... and they're lining up.
Read about Erik Mona's announcment HERE. |
|
|
