| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Steel_Wind |
Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 03:12:24
Hi all,
I am trying to collect as much information and background material as I can on the City of Westgate.
Yes, I know the FRCS has some info, as does Lords of Darkness and the appendix in Cloak and Dagger from 2e is quite handy too.
But as much info as I can find in novels, modules, Dragon or Dungeon articles/adventures and other products going back to 1st and 2nd ed is required.
No lead is too small; no novel too obscure.
Any and all info and pointers are welcome.
Thanks,
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| 19 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Fillow |
Posted - 11 Sep 2008 : 20:57:10
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
That's okay, I thought there was some misunderstanding going on, but I wasn't sure where it had occurred... 
No probs !  |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 11 Sep 2008 : 20:53:40
That's okay, I thought there was some misunderstanding going on, but I wasn't sure where it had occurred... |
| Fillow |
Posted - 11 Sep 2008 : 20:51:48
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Fillow, George is one of the contributors to the Grand History of the Realms. So he made it up, but it IS canon.
Yes, I know that Ashe. I'm French, not stupid you know ! 
I read again George's WHOLE sentence ( "I added lots of dates for areas to the east of the Inner Sea") and saw he wrote a lot about the East of the sea, and Westgate is... to the West !
I totally misunderstood what he said.
Sorry for this !  |
| Ashe Ravenheart |
Posted - 11 Sep 2008 : 20:24:36
Fillow, George is one of the contributors to the Grand History of the Realms. So he made it up, but it IS canon. |
| Fillow |
Posted - 11 Sep 2008 : 20:19:57
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I kind of ... made most of them up ...
-- George Krashos
I'm not sure I understood your sentence George !
You made these events by yourself ? That's what you wrote ?
So, you mean they are not canon ? |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 11 Sep 2008 : 09:25:22
quote:
Originally posted by Fillow
Thanks a lot George.
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
... Brian did a great job at filling in the proto-history of the Realms - which is his area of interest - and I added lots of dates for areas to the east of the Inner Sea - which is one of my areas of interest - but on the whole, we still left many, many regions fairly bare for historical background.
have these data been collected into a sourcebook or did you gather them somewhere we could see ?
I kind of ... made most of them up ...
-- George Krashos
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| Fillow |
Posted - 11 Sep 2008 : 05:13:56
Thanks a lot George.
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
... Brian did a great job at filling in the proto-history of the Realms - which is his area of interest - and I added lots of dates for areas to the east of the Inner Sea - which is one of my areas of interest - but on the whole, we still left many, many regions fairly bare for historical background.
have these data been collected into a sourcebook or did you gather them somewhere we could see ? |
| Jakk |
Posted - 11 Sep 2008 : 03:28:26
Okay... after searching until I was sick of doing so, I settled on making it up... and I went with -516 (The Year of Winds Westward)... it makes sense from a prophecy point of view, being that Westgate was the westernmost port on the Sea of Fallen Stars (and still is, if you don't count the Dragonmere as part of the SoFS). If anybody finds anything published or obtains lore from Ed that contradicts this, please post the date and source here. |
| George Krashos |
Posted - 10 Sep 2008 : 23:44:10
For such a popular region and one that has had more than its fair share of input across the editions, the Dragon Coast is not particularly well-detailed historically. But then again, that could be said about a host of regions including the Dalelands, the Moonsea, The Vilhon Reach and the Heartlands.
That's why I wish that GHotR hadn't been quite so frenetic in its development. I know that personally, if I'd known 6 months sooner that it was going to happen, I would have started trying to flesh out these historical blackspots. Brian did a great job at filling in the proto-history of the Realms - which is his area of interest - and I added lots of dates for areas to the east of the Inner Sea - which is one of my areas of interest - but on the whole, we still left many, many regions fairly bare for historical background.
Who knows, as my kids get older and more independent, I'll hopefully get back to my own timeline and start adding in some more stuff. Get back to me in a decade.
Oh, and back on topic, the genesis of Westgate and its environs would surely have its roots in the Vilhon/Jhaamdath. The only problem with that is the historical treatments of Jhaamdath that have appeared so far don't IMO have that richness of lore and synergy with surrounding areas/lands to provide a satisfying launchpad for a look at the Dragon Coast's history.
Sounds like a good project for a dedicated fan. I know that Tom Costa was looking to pitch a Dragon Coast/Pirate Isles regional sourcebook to WotC a couple of years ago, but that obviously never got anywhere.
-- George Krashos
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| Jakk |
Posted - 10 Sep 2008 : 23:38:54
I have this timeline... it doesn't go back past -349 DR. Thanks anyway. 
I'm suspecting that anything on Westgate prior to this date will need to be invented... and I'm good with that, seeing as I'm inventing the entire Realms post-1373 anyway.
However, if anyone finds anything canon on the pre-dragon days of Westgate, I'm interested. |
| Calmar |
Posted - 10 Sep 2008 : 22:33:29
Here's a timeline of Westgate's history in .doc format.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/WGtimeline.doc.
edit: I've noticed that it's also in the link to the Cloak & Dagger web enhancement postedt above. |
| Fillow |
Posted - 10 Sep 2008 : 20:45:28
with no proof of veracity, Wiki says : quote:
This area of the Dragon Coast was first settled by humans from the Vilhon Reach roughy 3,000 years ago
and Sea of the fallen stars says, at page 20 that... quote:
There are hundreds of stories about Netherese wizards creating fish-men or parting the seas around the Neck to walk from the Heartlands to the
area that would become Westgate
... But when ?
I'm still on the track ! |
| Jakk |
Posted - 10 Sep 2008 : 20:26:23
Not from the wording used in the Grand History:
quote:
-349: The Year of Bold Poachers: The Netherese wizard Saldrinar of the Seven Spells destroys Kisonraathiisar, the topaz dragon ruler of Westgate, and becomes the city's first human king.
That wording implies that a city named Westgate already existed, and that the dragon was its ruler. I'd also like to know why there's an illustration of a warforged titled "Kisonraathiisar's slow demise" in the GH. Did Saldrinar turn the dragon into a warforged? Or did someone make a mistake in the layout department? Just curious.  |
| Fillow |
Posted - 10 Sep 2008 : 20:20:35
I'm not at all but I would say that Westgate was not yet Westgate before Saldrinar became the city's king. I'd add he founded the city.
It was just the dragon's lair up to this moment. Wasn't it ? |
| Jakk |
Posted - 10 Sep 2008 : 19:18:01
I found this old thread and thought I'd resurrect it. I'm trying to find the original founding date for Westgate. We know that in -349DR, Saldrinar of the Seven Spells killed Kisonraathiisar and became the city's first human king... but when did the dragon become the king of Westgate?  I've been trying to find the answer to *that* one for days now, and it's difficult, because I move too often and all of my pre-3E Realms material is in storage in another city.  |
| Steel_Wind |
Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 16:36:23
quote:
Originally posted by EvilKnight
For abbreviation definitions see http://home.indy.rr.com/evilknight/full.htm
Westgate
Au: 100,110,131
C&D: 9,13,14,17,18,21
Cor: FC
CoRB: 2,4,10,15
EvilKnight
Wow. I am in awe. Thanks muchly for this. |
| EvilKnight |
Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 05:36:13
For abbreviation definitions see http://home.indy.rr.com/evilknight/full.htm
Westgate
Au: 100,110,131
C&D: 9,13,14,17,18,21
Cor: FC
CoRB: 2,4,10,15
CoS: 8
CotD: 34,39,41
CSys: 4
DD: 20
Dr153: 99
Dr179: 28
Dr248: 60
Dr250: 82
Dr259: 63
Dr281: 18
Du66: 42
Du69: 68
Du80: 31,32,36
EE-SoFS: 27,31
F&A: 76
FOR3: 5,15,16,49,51,53,59
FOR4: 14,15
FR11: 14
FR13: 3,33,36,81
FR15: 5,46,54,55,61,64
FRA: 71,73,81,87,91,104,114,115,116,117
FRAtl: viii
FRCS: 26,115,141,142,143,144,145,189,271
FRCS/MoF: 2
FRCS3e: 26,115
FRCS3e/map: 2,4
FRE1: 4
GToR: 19,24,78,79,80,82,83,84,100,101,106,123
HL: 8,9,10,11,34,41,43,55
LoIm: 2f
MC11: 53
MCA3: 91
MS: 18
P&P: 18,20
PftF: 22,38,42,47,51,55,60,96,97
RoMD/CGtMD: 9,84,99
RoU/CGtU: 87
RoZK: 8,48
RoZKm: 1
RtR: 9,16,20,22,30,32,57
SoFS: 5,6,11
SotM: 17,18,40
SS: 5,23,28,32
VGtATM: 9,43,58,59,125
VGtC: 16,67
VGtD: 6,9,107
VGtSC: 56
VL: 8,9,13,14,28,56,57,58,59,77,92,101
W+PoR: 30
W+RoR: 35,106,107
Connections:
-286 DR
FRCS: 144
-349 DR
FRCS: 144
257 DR
FRCS: 144
429 DR
FRCS: 144
734 DR
FRCS: 144
Croamarkh
FRCS: 144
Iyachtu Xvim
FRCS: 144
Kisonraathiisar
FRCS: 144
Night Masks
FRCS: 26,143,144,271
Orlak
FRCS: 144
Pirate Kings
FRCS: 144
Saldrinar of the Seven Spells
FRCS: 142,144
Verovan
FRCS: 144
Westgate arena illus [top]
FRCS: 144
EvilKnight |
| Kuje |
Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 05:15:35
Champions of Ruin for the Night Mask Deathbringer prestige class. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 24 Sep 2006 : 03:18:53
The Alias novels as well.
Forgotten Realms Adventures and the 1e/2e FRCS.
Sea of Fallen Stars and Pirates of the Fallen Stars.
Ed's Temptation of Elminster provides som historical lore on the region on and around Westgate.
Ed also detailed a building for Kuje that exists in Westgate. See Ed's '05 replies.
Also, the novels Night Masks and Masquerades.
Heroes' and Villains' Lorebooks (the Villains' Lorebook is available for free download at WotC:- http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads)
Cloak & Dagger web enhancement, which is available here:- http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20010327d
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