| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| StromLancer |
Posted - 03 Aug 2005 : 13:12:23
Hail to all the scribes of candlekeep! Here is something I had been quietly pondering about. Faerun seems to me to be filled with a lot of Half-Xs these days which sometimes amuses me. By the way, Half-Xs refers to Half-elves, half-orcs, half-dragons (a rare breed indeed), half-dwarves(an idea that often amuses though I know it is a crazy idea) and some rumors like elflings(cross between halflings and elves, weird huh?)and half-avariels(a breed that I had been thinking about), and well here are somethings I had been pondering about for each of the Half-Xs.
Half-elves.
1) Curious, why most half-elves tend to descend from the moon elves mostly? Moon elves more 'popular' than the other elves of non-moon elven origin or is it moon elves more approchable than the other type of elves?
2) Second, The Eldreth Veluuthra is well known for being anti-human, so do they consider half-elves as "blasphermorous creatures"? Surely they would be secretly campaigning against them.
3) Third, are their lifespans that long as their elven parent?
4) Any comments about the half-elves of sun elf, wood elf and wild elf origins?
5) There are some comments in the web that female elves tend to have low fertility rates so that's why the elven race seemed to be dwindling in number, what's your view?
6) Who is the first Half-elf to walk the realms? Does Correllon frown on half-elves?
Half-orcs
1) It seemed half-orcs are not so widely accepted in the realms, but are there any half-orc sorcerers or half-orc wizards in the realms?
2) Curious, why orcs look toward non-orcs for mates than their own race, is the orc race becoming more sterile?(Not meant as an offensive statment)
3) What's your personal views on half-orcs?
Half-dragons
It is known that half-dragons are very rare in the realms,
1) Any idea how a half-dragon looks like?
2) Which is the most common draconic ancestry for half-dragons (I mean they descend from which kind of dragon like white or shadow wryms)
3) Any famous half-dragons in the realms?
4) What's your personal views on half-dragons?
5) Why do the wryms choose a small folk to be their mates when they tend to despise the small folk which they think themselves superior to them?
Half-dwarves
Well, speculate on it, everyone!
Elflings
Well, speculate on it, everyone!
Half-avariels
An interesting idea to me it seems, I had never heard of half-avariels but I just thought of it, so please post what you think on Half-avariels, preferably something on their appearance and acceptance into human and avariel societies.
I know it's a long list, well? What's your views and answers to the above list? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 10 Aug 2005 : 11:16:44
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
And let's be serious, as more races converge and humans become more populous on Faerun, the chances for more halves occur.
C-Fb
Hmm, yes true indeed. Looks like the older races of Faerun are slowly dwindling away into history. |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 08 Aug 2005 : 22:07:26
I agree with the assessment of the half-fiend and its partner in crime, the half-celestial. I believe these beings are simple, but effective templates that allow for a wide range of possibilities. And let's be serious, as more races converge and humans become more populous on Faerun, the chances for more halves occur.
C-Fb |
| Mournblade |
Posted - 08 Aug 2005 : 21:50:08
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
Well met, fellow scribes and sages!
Although I may not approve some of the ever-growing list of templates (such as half-vampires), I think some of them actually have a potential... my favorites being definitely half-golem and half-fiend 
If your campaign is not overrun by these 'half-x'-templates, they may actually be used to create memorable and even tragic NPCs and villains, maybe even whole adventures concentrating on them (a lab where an evil mage makes terrible experiments, to mention the obvious story seed, for example ;)
Actually the half fiend works real well. It is just that when I see things Like I saw on the WOTC monster boards I start to cry. It is more an exercise of min/maxing then. THen I HATE the 1/2 templates.
But I agree. THe half golem works well because well that is really not any sort of thing that gets born, and there is a DEFINITE power difference between a half-celestial and an Asimon. |
| Asgetrion |
Posted - 08 Aug 2005 : 19:12:30
Well met, fellow scribes and sages!
Although I may not approve some of the ever-growing list of templates (such as half-vampires), I think some of them actually have a potential... my favorites being definitely half-golem and half-fiend
If your campaign is not overrun by these 'half-x'-templates, they may actually be used to create memorable and even tragic NPCs and villains, maybe even whole adventures concentrating on them (a lab where an evil mage makes terrible experiments, to mention the obvious story seed, for example ;)
|
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 08 Aug 2005 : 18:18:43
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
This is where the magic plays. I don't like to think about it OTHER than magic because it then goes into the realm of science fiction. My majour is Molecular Biology, and the sheer fact that we cannot get a horse and a donkey to mix, yet can get an elf and a human to mix with viable offspring would make me SCREAM. So I ignore genes completley. Generally other than story elements I try to leave the SCIENCE out of D&D. otherwise I have too much trouble suspending disbeleif. It is easier for me to say this is how the genes work in a MAGICAL universe.
'Tis for the best. I believe Ed mentioned once that the Realms is "unaware" of DNA and heredity and whatnot at the moment. And in a fantasy world -- defined by the fact that its natural laws are not our own -- who knows?
quote:
Otherwise I would have to capture Dwarves, ORcs, Elves, Humans and sequence ALL of their DNA (That would be a HIDEOUS task) and figure out WHAT about the dwarven genes makes them Dominant.
Certain liches do that, you know. Though their processes are a bit more painful than the standard "scientific" approach. 
Cheers |
| Mournblade |
Posted - 08 Aug 2005 : 07:13:23
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Why is it that dwarven genes outmuscle the human ones while elven genes don`t?
[/quote]
Perhaps elves and humans are similar enough, genetically, that the genes just kind of intermingle. Dwarven genes, on the other hand, may "overwhelm" human genes by having more dominant characteristics (like how blue eyes are recessive, and brown eyes are dominant). 'Tis just a guess, though.
[/quote]
This is where the magic plays. I don't like to think about it OTHER than magic because it then goes into the realm of science fiction. My majour is Molecular Biology, and the sheer fact that we cannot get a horse and a donkey to mix, yet can get an elf and a human to mix with viable offspring would make me SCREAM. So I ignore genes completley. Generally other than story elements I try to leave the SCIENCE out of D&D. otherwise I have too much trouble suspending disbeleif. It is easier for me to say this is how the genes work in a MAGICAL universe. Otherwise I would have to capture Dwarves, ORcs, Elves, Humans and sequence ALL of their DNA (That would be a HIDEOUS task) and figure out WHAT about the dwarven genes makes them Dominant.
Still like many of you, I RARELY allow a half breed that is not a Tiefling, Assimon, Genasi, Half elf or Half orc. If I have another half breed there is a very good reason for it.
|
| Adarin |
Posted - 07 Aug 2005 : 02:11:58
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
My understanding on Half-Elven offspring is the following:
Elf + Human = Half-Elf
Elf + Half-Elf = Elf
Half-Elf + Human = Human
Half-Elf + Half-Elf = Half-Elf
Yup, at least for FR according to lore going all the way back to 1e. :)
There's a few places along the way where Ed & I both fudged this a little, so sometimes....rarely....
Half-elf + Human = Half-elf (if the human had some elven ancestry).
Case in point, at least three of Khelben's daughters over 800 years were half-elves, even when his wife was a half-elf, due to the vagaries of genetics and the attentions/intentions of a goddess who shares her power with him, making him a little more than just a 1/4 elf human like his grand-daughter/"sister" Cassandra Thann.
So the rules as stated above are true 99.9% of the time. When the Chosen get involved, though, all bets are off, hm?
Quite true, however the above works most of the time, especially when you use KISS for things.
Now if one was to delve into family history/genetics, then it gets more complex.
After all the Seven Sisters (with the exception of Qilue) are not quite human, but not quite half-elven either, something along the lines of quarter-elven if I recall correctly.
The Seven Sisters also might be a bit quarter goddess as well since their mother was possessed by Mystra during their birth. |
| warlockco |
Posted - 07 Aug 2005 : 00:01:43
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
My understanding on Half-Elven offspring is the following:
Elf + Human = Half-Elf
Elf + Half-Elf = Elf
Half-Elf + Human = Human
Half-Elf + Half-Elf = Half-Elf
Yup, at least for FR according to lore going all the way back to 1e. :)
There's a few places along the way where Ed & I both fudged this a little, so sometimes....rarely....
Half-elf + Human = Half-elf (if the human had some elven ancestry).
Case in point, at least three of Khelben's daughters over 800 years were half-elves, even when his wife was a half-elf, due to the vagaries of genetics and the attentions/intentions of a goddess who shares her power with him, making him a little more than just a 1/4 elf human like his grand-daughter/"sister" Cassandra Thann.
So the rules as stated above are true 99.9% of the time. When the Chosen get involved, though, all bets are off, hm?
Quite true, however the above works most of the time, especially when you use KISS for things.
Now if one was to delve into family history/genetics, then it gets more complex.
After all the Seven Sisters (with the exception of Qilue) are not quite human, but not quite half-elven either, something along the lines of quarter-elven if I recall correctly. |
| Steven Schend |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 20:14:32
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
My understanding on Half-Elven offspring is the following:
Elf + Human = Half-Elf
Elf + Half-Elf = Elf
Half-Elf + Human = Human
Half-Elf + Half-Elf = Half-Elf
Yup, at least for FR according to lore going all the way back to 1e. :)
There's a few places along the way where Ed & I both fudged this a little, so sometimes....rarely....
Half-elf + Human = Half-elf (if the human had some elven ancestry).
Case in point, at least three of Khelben's daughters over 800 years were half-elves, even when his wife was a half-elf, due to the vagaries of genetics and the attentions/intentions of a goddess who shares her power with him, making him a little more than just a 1/4 elf human like his grand-daughter/"sister" Cassandra Thann.
So the rules as stated above are true 99.9% of the time. When the Chosen get involved, though, all bets are off, hm? |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 20:12:03
The sad thing is . . . I didn't even thing of that . . . sheep . . . wolf . . . goodness I have been away too long, lol. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 20:07:26
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I rather liked Ed's explanation of half dwarves, that being that the dwarven bloodline was so strong that the resulting child is just a dwarf that is a little taller than his family. It keeps things nice and simple, and gives you a role playing hook if you want your dwarven PC to be a little different.
Why is it that dwarven genes outmuscle the human ones while elven genes don`t?
Perhaps elves and humans are similar enough, genetically, that the genes just kind of intermingle. Dwarven genes, on the other hand, may "overwhelm" human genes by having more dominant characteristics (like how blue eyes are recessive, and brown eyes are dominant). 'Tis just a guess, though. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 20:01:34
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
the lythari is the black sheep of his tribe,
Is it just me, or is this an ironic choice of words?  |
| khorne |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 19:38:22
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I rather liked Ed's explanation of half dwarves, that being that the dwarven bloodline was so strong that the resulting child is just a dwarf that is a little taller than his family. It keeps things nice and simple, and gives you a role playing hook if you want your dwarven PC to be a little different.
Why is it that dwarven genes outmuscle the human ones while elven genes don`t? |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 19:21:15
I really don't mind all of the "half" races that have sprung up (or the "part" races if you want to include tiefling, aasimar, genasi, etc>), and I don't mind having more available races for people to play, except that there is a side effect, that being that some of the less "exotic" standard races, halfling, gnomes, etc. tend to get left behind.
Of course, the caveat is that if people roleplay their characters, there isn't a problem. It get to be annoying when someone picks a race beacause this or that ability will give them this extra at first level and when they take this prestige class they will be able to do this so much better. I would rather someone wonder about how being a tiefling might effect their soul if they are trying to follow a good diety than how they can multiclass between rogue and sorcerer.
Of course, I have a difficult time being negative on the topic given that my step children, when they joined by campaign, started playing a lythari and a half-ogre. Still, it has worked out pretty well so far, given that both have come up with pretty good ties to the setting and good backgrounds (the half-ogre was an orphan found in the Stonelands and raised in Tilverton, and the lythari is the black sheep of his tribe, having left due to a facination with humans).
As far as things like half-vampires, given that I had already thought about such lore for a long time (long before playing D&D the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe taught me that vampires can't have children) I just make point by point rulings. In the case of half-vampires, I invoked the Blade clause, that being the only half vampires are those that are born from a mother than was carrying a child before she was attacked.
I rather liked Ed's explanation of half dwarves, that being that the dwarven bloodline was so strong that the resulting child is just a dwarf that is a little taller than his family. It keeps things nice and simple, and gives you a role playing hook if you want your dwarven PC to be a little different. |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 17:36:33
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
My understanding on Half-Elven offspring is the following:
Elf + Human = Half-Elf
Elf + Half-Elf = Elf
Half-Elf + Human = Human
Half-Elf + Half-Elf = Half-Elf
Yup, at least for FR according to lore going all the way back to 1e. :)
So that's the way it works, at least in the Realms, then. Very good.
My thanks, wise sirs.
Cheers |
| Kuje |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 16:03:30
Magic was also used in some cases, to make the half-mind flayers. :) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 10:12:43
quote:
Originally posted by Kaldar-maaren
Half-mind flayers? Strange, how is it possible? Mind flayers breed through gruesome methods that uses host victims for their mind flayer tadpoles to occupy and convert the host to a mind flayer, but half-mind flayers....is really beyond my comprehension.
Half-illithids are covered in the 3e Fiend Folio. Basically, the half-illithid is the result of the process of ceremorphosis (the gruesome method you mentioned earlier) working on a non-human race -- lizardmen for instance (an example of which is included with the description in the FF).
Here's an illustration:- http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=/dnd/images/ff_gallery/50164.jpg&origin=dnd_ag_20030409a
|
| Kaldar-maaren |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 10:03:01
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Zorro
Sorry, Kuje, I didn't scroll down far enough to see your justified call to order, and now that I've posted my novel... Anyway, sorry
Back to topic: I loathe all those half-this, half-that combinations (I've seen many outright frightening examples on WotC's site), but I guess some sort of "been there, done that" attitude might have something to do with it. The publisher wants to fascinate the audience, and instead of coming up with something new it goes for new combinations of known adversaries. But at least we can't blame WotC - TSR did that masterfully. Does anyone remember round about when half-mania started?
Zorro
It's okay. :)
And well, I can understand some half's whatevers but when it gets out of hand then it gets to be a bit much. I don't mind half-elves and half-orcs but I don't want to see a char that is a half-orc/half-dragon/half-vampire, unless there's a reason why that char exists. Same with the other strange combinations.
The few half-mind flayers that exist/existed had a reason why they existed.
Half-mind flayers? Strange, how is it possible? Mind flayers breed through gruesome methods that uses host victims for their mind flayer tadpoles to occupy and convert the host to a mind flayer, but half-mind flayers....is really beyond my comprehension. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 07:29:28
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
My understanding on Half-Elven offspring is the following:
Elf + Human = Half-Elf
Elf + Half-Elf = Elf
Half-Elf + Human = Human
Half-Elf + Half-Elf = Half-Elf
Yup, at least for FR according to lore going all the way back to 1e. :) |
| warlockco |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 07:00:28
My understanding on Half-Elven offspring is the following:
Elf + Human = Half-Elf
Elf + Half-Elf = Elf
Half-Elf + Human = Human
Half-Elf + Half-Elf = Half-Elf |
| Erik Scott de Bie |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 06:50:31
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
PS: To bring this back into the half-x discussion, Khelben is the most prominent of NPCs who is the human child of a half-elf. Then again, the elder six of the Seven Sisters are (IIRC) human daughters of a god-possessed half-elf woman. Can anyone think of other half-elf/human pairings and if they've any half-elf offsrping? The only one that leaps to mind is Saheen Silverbrow, one of Khelben's daughters who helped him train Sylune in magics.....
I seem to recall a half-elf noble in Calimport -- Khar yn Sadid el Namor -- who was said to possess a family of both half-elf and human children.
Silate Deepdell, from the 2e City of Splendor boxed set. She's the offspring of a half-elf male named Travis and human female named Vhonna.
I was under the impression (perhaps false, perhaps not -- I think this comes from something I read in 2e, maybe the Elves handbook?) that half-elves are only technically produced by elf / human, half-elf / half-elf, or half-elf / elf pairings.
What the source said was that ELVES only have elvish heritage (you can't be an elf if daddy was a half-breed, apparently), HALF-ELVES have half or more elvish blood (elf/half-elf would work), and HUMANS can have less than half elvish blood and still be human (half-elf/human). Even if you're 99 percent Elvish, you're still a half-elf (technically) since you're not a full-blooded elf, and even if you're 49- percent elvish, you're human.
Of course, those statistics (like 99 percent elf) are silly. It would mean, basically, that you had a human ancestor hundreds (or even thousands, knowing elves) of years ago, but you've been elf until then.
To do the math, briefly. . .
1st generation creates half-elf, 2nd generation (h-e/elf) 75% elf, 87.5% elf, 93.75% elf, 96.88% elf, 98.44% elf, 99.22% elf, 99.61% elf).
NINE generations until you round up to 100% elf. That equates to, what, 900-1500 or so years, depending? That would be a long time for the "human corruption!" to fester.
The question, really, is whether a half-elf/human pairing can produce half-elves, and it seems we have found a couple instances where it may indeed have done so.
Whew. It gets late, I get technical!
Cheers
P.S. I really would be interested in an official answer: it's pretty normal for a human/half-elf pairing to produce a human, aye?
What would an elf/half-elf pairing produce, and how many generations would one need to go through of vigorously breeding out humanity before that line would end in an elf? |
| Kuje |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 04:46:16
quote:
Originally posted by Zorro
Sorry, Kuje, I didn't scroll down far enough to see your justified call to order, and now that I've posted my novel... Anyway, sorry
Back to topic: I loathe all those half-this, half-that combinations (I've seen many outright frightening examples on WotC's site), but I guess some sort of "been there, done that" attitude might have something to do with it. The publisher wants to fascinate the audience, and instead of coming up with something new it goes for new combinations of known adversaries. But at least we can't blame WotC - TSR did that masterfully. Does anyone remember round about when half-mania started?
Zorro
It's okay. :)
And well, I can understand some half's whatevers but when it gets out of hand then it gets to be a bit much. I don't mind half-elves and half-orcs but I don't want to see a char that is a half-orc/half-dragon/half-vampire, unless there's a reason why that char exists. Same with the other strange combinations.
The few half-mind flayers that exist/existed had a reason why they existed. |
| Zorro |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 04:38:51
Sorry, Kuje, I didn't scroll down far enough to see your justified call to order, and now that I've posted my novel... Anyway, sorry
Back to topic: I loathe all those half-this, half-that combinations (I've seen many outright frightening examples on WotC's site), but I guess some sort of "been there, done that" attitude might have something to do with it. The publisher wants to fascinate the audience, and instead of coming up with something new it goes for new combinations of known adversaries. But at least we can't blame WotC - TSR did that masterfully. Does anyone remember round about when half-mania started?
Zorro |
| Kuje |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 04:37:59
I ask AGAIN! Can we get back on TOPIC! :) |
| Zorro |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 04:26:47
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Well Zorro that is the opinion of ALOT of new fantasy readers. Elric very well MIGHT reflect Flash Gordon or Buck Rodgers. I am not faulting your opinion at all, but at the time most of the SCI FI/FANTASY stories were puplished in Pulp magazines. Moorcock himself was an editor of those magazines.
Moorcock wrote at a time when publishers were not pressuring to make trilogies. Also think of what Moorcock had to draw on. Pretty much he only had his imagination, the earlier works before him, and Collaboration with Fritz Leibner, and H.P Lovecraft.
Well, I certainly hope Moorcock did not collaborate with H.P.L. - because if he managed to pull that off, I'd have to lie awake all night wondering how he did that No, seriously, I wouldn't consider myself a new fantasy reader, being on the wrong side of thirty, and I know where Moorcock comes from. (And I admire Lovecraft, by the way. Pulp doesn't have to be... well... pulpy?) But I don't consider not having had someone to clear the path an excuse. Lovecraft didn't have someone to do that for him, neither did Tolkien, and both managed to write pure gold. (Howard can be a pain to read sometimes, too, but though I don't particularly like him, I can see the class between the pages. I just don't seem to find it in Moorcock's books. What's especially unfortunate in Moorcock's case is that he was content with writing pulp, although the story cried, "Write me properly, at least half-decent, do me justice!" If I had to list all the novels that have a good story but lack in its respective execution, I'd be sitting here until New Year's Eve, but his story arc had it all, and boy, could it have been good... Let's imagine Tolkien had been so hard up and desperate he'd have had to work as the editor for a magazine like New World (surely he would have never "stooped so low") - I doubt it would have had any discernable impact on his works. Admittedly Moorcock and Tolkien came from different worlds, different planets actually, as far as education and social background are concerned, but I'm wondering if Moorcock really couldn't do any better or if he considered the pulpy style that was so well established in the early sixties a fitting art form for his take on fantasy. He gave it a good twist, I give him that, but are we supposed to admire his works or his ideas? I've come up with quite a few complex adventures and interesting ideas over the past twenty years, but I've got no fanclub
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Look at the writers today. Half the time they write books as movies. Which is OK because that is how the modern person begins to picture those scenes. But I think that someone that is used to the modern fantasy style would be turned off by the earlier roots. MANY new readers can't get through Tolkein. He has even LESS to draw on than Moorcock.
But he managed to do so much more with so much less. It's not a question of ideas, anyway, Moorcock's basic idea was very good, and his creation of a tragic anti-hero in a genre which at that point certainly didn't see something like Elric coming can't be praised enough. Like you, I think it's important to know where this genre comes from and how it has evolved into what it is today. I just think that anybody could have done what Moorcock has done. Oh, if he only had told one of his authors about his ideas... "So, Teddy... care to write that for me?"
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Kind of like what I hear from my students about Star Wars A NEW HOPE. They think the movie is horrible because the special effects 'are so bad'.
Kids these days *g* I could start ranting about how the classic trilogy minus SFX would still have made a decent (albeit simple) tale of adventure whereas I deem the new trilogy to be pure crap with or without its SFX-overkill, but we're off topic enough, I guess *fg*
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
A lot of the classes from the 1st ed comes from the work of Howard, Leibner, and Tolkein.
Without Tolkien there would've been no D&D (and I don't care how adamantly Gygax, Arneson & Co. deny his influence ) Though it would have been interesting to see a fantasy genre evolving solely based on Leiber, Howard, de Camp etc.
Zorro |
| Kuje |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 03:34:20
Hey guys,
How about we get this back on topic. :)
You don't want me to get out my staff-whip of irriated moderator. :) |
| Kuje |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 03:32:43
quote:
Originally posted by AlacLuin
Well yea, I was just responding to the questions from the first post.
1) any wizards or sorcorer half orcs in Realms cannon. In most 1st and 2ed half orc arcane casters were rare, heck they were limited to 4th level as clerics.
2) why would an orc mate with something not orc. (rape was already stated)
I'm paraphasing the original questions.
Wasn't trying to argue with you. I was just expanding on what you said. :) |
| Mournblade |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 02:47:11
quote:
Originally posted by Zorro
The first real anti-hero, agreed. The recommendation, disagreed, sorry. I found his saga extremely lacking in most departments. His brief style is one you'd expect to find in a dime novel, his stories, while certainly interesting at the core, are way out there and reminded me of Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon, and the whole dramaturgy screamed [insert any penny dreadful that comes to mind], at least to me.
Zorro
P.S.: I've been trying to post this for half an hour. Did I miss a "Server will be down from... till..." announcement?
Well Zorro that is the opinion of ALOT of new fantasy readers. Elric very well MIGHT reflect Flash Gordon or Buck Rodgers. I am not faulting your opinion at all, but at the time most of the SCI FI/FANTASY stories were puplished in Pulp magazines. Moorcock himself was an editor of those magazines.
Moorcock wrote at a time when publishers were not pressuring to make trilogies. Also think of what Moorcock had to draw on. Pretty much he only had his imagination, the earlier works before him, and Collaboration with Fritz Leibner, and H.P Lovecraft. There were very few movies to draw on or other media forms.
Look at the writers today. Half the time they write books as movies. Which is OK because that is how the modern person begins to picture those scenes. But I think that someone that is used to the modern fantasy style would be turned off by the earlier roots. MANY new readers can't get through Tolkein. He has even LESS to draw on than Moorcock.
Kind of like what I hear from my students about Star Wars A NEW HOPE. They think the movie is horrible because the special effects 'are so bad'. Not realizing that without Star Wars the special effects might not be what they are today. Moorcock is as skilled a writer as any of the modern writers. He just did not grow up with the amount of novels someone can get now.
It is good you read them! Like them or not, it is good to know what the Genre springs from. I jsut wish MORE people would give the older guys a shot. A lot of the classes from the 1st ed comes from the work of Howard, Leibner, and Tolkein. |
| AlacLuin |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 01:44:36
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by AlacLuin
Half-orcs
1) Magic of Faerun pg 64, Kyosh Wiz 8, he is a traveling merchant, selling things from his cart. Mant of his items are magical items.
2) Many orcs spend a long time away from their tribe and get lonely.
Another thing, some orcs recognize that half orcs are more intelegent, so a few may see it as strenthining their line.
There's tons of half-orcs in the old lore because they were a core class in 1e and half-orc was still use in 2e. :)
Well yea, I was just responding to the questions from the first post.
1) any wizards or sorcorer half orcs in Realms cannon. In most 1st and 2ed half orc arcane casters were rare, heck they were limited to 4th level as clerics.
2) why would an orc mate with something not orc. (rape was already stated)
I'm paraphasing the original questions. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 00:19:17
quote:
Originally posted by AlacLuin
Half-orcs
1) Magic of Faerun pg 64, Kyosh Wiz 8, he is a traveling merchant, selling things from his cart. Mant of his items are magical items.
2) Many orcs spend a long time away from their tribe and get lonely.
Another thing, some orcs recognize that half orcs are more intelegent, so a few may see it as strenthining their line.
There's tons of half-orcs in the old lore because they were a core class in 1e and half-orc was still use in 2e. :) |
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