| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Thureen Buroch |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 17:16:29
Well, I've come across this topic a lot in reading, but all I've been able to figure out about spelljamming is that its something Gnomes do to enchant ships to go into space. Its not described in 3E, which is what I play, but it sounds cool ...
Can anybody tell me what this Spelljamming is?
Oh yeah, I have read about the Giant Space Hamsters.  |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 02:16:37
quote:
Originally posted by Realmslore
New domains, when taken from other worlds, are copies of the original. The mists do not destroy the land, or leave it barren. A copy of land is transfered to ravenloft and any beings caught within when the mists arrive are transported as well.
That's not always the case. The concept of domain creation is purely at the whim of the Dark Powers.
There have been recorded instances (in the RL canon) that tell of prime worlds and outer planes with gapping holes or black voids where a previously existing locale or region used to lay. The Mists are mysterious in their ways, and though we've learned of examples where places remain much the same after a visit from the Mists... there is no standard basis to relate to. What happens... happens.
quote:
One example of this would be the creation of the domain of Sithicus. After Lord Soth was taken to the demiplane of dread, Dragaard Keep still existed in Dragonlance while its copy, known as Nedragaard Keep existed within Ravenloft.
I also believe one of the Ravenloft novels described the aftermath of Nova Vaasa being taken by the mists. Travelers discovered the inhabitants 'simply vanished' after one particularly foggy evening.
Both accurate examples.
|
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 02:13:24
quote:
Originally posted by Realmslore
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
I don't know (but would like to know) if any space-goers have yet found out what happens to a world which has a domain sucked into the Mists of Ravenloft. Is there a misty area where the prime realm used to be -- the result of a Plane Swap -- or is a barren area the result, or perhaps just a depopulation, the Demi-Plane of Dread supplying a copy of the land for a new domain within the mists.
New domains, when taken from other worlds, are copies of the original. The mists do not destroy the land, or leave it barren. A copy of land is transfered to ravenloft and any beings caught within when the mists arrive are transported as well.
One example of this would be the creation of the domain of Sithicus. After Lord Soth was taken to the demiplane of dread, Dragaard Keep still existed in Dragonlance while its copy, known as Nedragaard Keep existed within Ravenloft.
I also believe one of the Ravenloft novels described the aftermath of Nova Vaasa being taken by the mists. Travelers discovered the inhabitants 'simply vanished' after one particularly foggy evening.
That answers my question about Lord Soth's domain. Thank you! I know very little about him or his place in DL. |
| Brian R. James |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 02:10:53
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
I don't know (but would like to know) if any space-goers have yet found out what happens to a world which has a domain sucked into the Mists of Ravenloft. Is there a misty area where the prime realm used to be -- the result of a Plane Swap -- or is a barren area the result, or perhaps just a depopulation, the Demi-Plane of Dread supplying a copy of the land for a new domain within the mists.
New domains, when taken from other worlds, are copies of the original. The mists do not destroy the land, or leave it barren. A copy of land is transfered to ravenloft and any beings caught within when the mists arrive are transported as well.
One example of this would be the creation of the domain of Sithicus. After Lord Soth was taken to the demiplane of dread, Dragaard Keep still existed in Dragonlance while its copy, known as Nedragaard Keep existed within Ravenloft.
I also believe one of the Ravenloft novels described the aftermath of Nova Vaasa being taken by the mists. Travelers discovered the inhabitants 'simply vanished' after one particularly foggy evening. |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 09 Jul 2005 : 17:27:44
quote:
Originally posted by Thureen Buroch
Well, I've come across this topic a lot in reading, but all I've been able to figure out about spelljamming is that its something Gnomes do to enchant ships to go into space. Its not described in 3E, which is what I play, but it sounds cool ...
Can anybody tell me what this Spelljamming is?
Oh yeah, I have read about the Giant Space Hamsters.
Ahem! Having unleashed this Five Element cosmology query, I now divert attention back to the topic of the scroll.
Has anyone yet explained to Thureen Buroch how a helm works?
A spelljamming ship's helm is a magical device, basically a chair in which a spellcaster sits and burns off spell levels to propel the ship.
Ships have a limited amount of fresh air, which can be replaced by dipping into a planetary or asteroidal atmosphere, and water, which can be scooped up from a lake or river (much to the chagrin of some peoples "on the ground" who want to keep their possibly limited air and water supplies for themselves).
Gravity is usually "normal" only along one plane (geometrically speaking) of a ship or planet(oid), but there are a few exceptions known.
Space is so vast that not all variations have yet been discovered, but anything which can be conceived probably has a representation somewhere in space, or in another plane of existence. Alternate prime material planes still exist, I think, but the scope of space is so large that spelljammers concentrate on this one, which includes Realmspace, Greyspace, and Krynnspace -- the three main worlds of D&D and their crystal spheres. I suspect that some alterante prime material planes are best accessed from certain spaces (alternate Krynn is probably accessed most easily from "our" Krynn, for instance).
I don't know (but would like to know) if any space-goers have yet found out what happens to a world which has a domain sucked into the Mists of Ravenloft. Is there a misty area where the prime realm used to be -- the result of a Plane Swap -- or is a barren area the result, or perhaps just a depopulation, the Demi-Plane of Dread supplying a copy of the land for a new domain within the mists. It is possible that Ravenloft takes its lands from an alternate prime material plane presently unknown to us. Those who are familiar with the former homes of Lord Soth and Vecna may have the answers to this line of inquiry. What used to exist in the Raurin Desert or Anauroch or the blasted lands of Narfell may have wound up somewhere in the Mists, or possibly in another demi-plane. ¿Quien sabe? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 09 Jul 2005 : 15:43:50
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
I suppose you could even re-conceive the World Tree itself as sort of a transitive elemental plane of wood attached to specific celestial planes.
That's actually what I was originally thinking -- almost Yggdrasil-like in function.
quote:
Who knows, you could even have it be one of the few remaining links to the plane of Faerie.
That's an intriguing perspective. The fact that the Plane of Wood no longer has such a prominent place among the elemental planes could reflect the fading of Faerie/Fey power in the multiverse.
quote:
Such a plane could be filled with celestial treants. Rattatosks for sure. Celestial dryads and perhaps other fey and plant people.
The treant God Emmantiensien might hold sway there. Served by a cadre of treant paragons.
Oh, you've gotta have the rattatosks  .
quote:
It wood be an interesting way to handle this concept in the FR cosmos.
I thinking you're barking up the wrong tree with that one   .
|
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 09 Jul 2005 : 15:00:38
I was also thinking that if you wanted to place the plane of Wood in the FR cosmology proper, you could make it a demi-plane attached to the Celestial World Tree that connects the upper planes. I suppose you could even re-conceive the World Tree itself as sort of a transitive elemental plane of wood attached to specific celestial planes.
Who knows, you could even have it be one of the few remaining links to the plane of Faerie.
Such a plane could be filled with celestial treants. Rattatosks for sure. Celestial dryads and perhaps other fey and plant people.
The treant God Emmantiensien might hold sway there. Served by a cadre of treant paragons.
It wood be an interesting way to handle this concept in the FR cosmos. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 09 Jul 2005 : 04:04:56
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
Apropos of kuje's (?) comment that the elemental planes are for the four Classical elements, I would point out that Classical China recognized five elements: water, earth, fire, metal, and wood.
I believe that the 3E Manual of the Planes discussed this as a variant cosmology.
It would not surprise me if there were 5 elemental planes accessible from the pocket cosmology attached to the lands of Kara-Tur.
I rather like that idea.
Although others have said that the Lot5R cosmology would work well with Kara-Tur -- this being an elemental philosophy based around the four prime elements and the void -- I disagree that void should have a placing. The void is strictly tied to Rokugan and doesn't have a basis in Kara-Turan cosmological dynamics.
That being said, Gray's suggestion is a great start for building a new elemental philosophy for Kara-Tur's cosmology.
|
| Gray Richardson |
Posted - 09 Jul 2005 : 00:32:11
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
Apropos of kuje's (?) comment that the elemental planes are for the four Classical elements, I would point out that Classical China recognized five elements: water, earth, fire, metal, and wood.
I believe that the 3E Manual of the Planes discussed this as a variant cosmology.
It would not surprise me if there were 5 elemental planes accessible from the pocket cosmology attached to the lands of Kara-Tur. |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 09 Jul 2005 : 00:07:09
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
For example, Chislev, the planet, is named for Chislev the god. He has an avatar that retreats to the center of the planet to use it as a wizard eye. Not only is that a ridiculous concept, but it ignores how the wizard eye spell operates.
I'm sorry, but there is no way I can think this plausible.
That? Ridiculous? Yes. No question ... at ... all! I'll save my five bucks for Secrets & Societies for Scarred Lands. (Five bucks? I Wish! No, I can't. That's 9th level. I Limited Wish!) |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 09 Jul 2005 : 00:04:16
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
Apropos of kuje's (?) comment that the elemental planes are for the four Classical elements, I would point out that Classical China recognized five elements: water, earth, fire, metal, and wood.
I believe that the 3E Manual of the Planes discussed this as a variant cosmology. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 09 Jul 2005 : 00:02:20
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
I don't have the Krynnspace supplement, but, based solely on this reference, I think the idea of deities using a planet to scry is "easier to believe" (given our knowledge of magical technologies) than believing that their hearing is so good that they can hear grass growing ten miles away or their mental prowess so vast that they can hear all of the conversations on a planet but filter out everything which doesn't include their names or a mention of their portfolio.
(An aside: if you are orchestrating a conspiracy against a god but don't mention the deity's name, is the deity ignorant of the plot?)
I could believe them using a regular or maybe even a specialized version of a scrying device long before I could imagine a planet being used as a scrying device. For that matter, I could imagine specialized scrying spells being employed, instead of a planet.
I mean, c'mon. It's a planet. It's a large rock composed of several elements, and it's hundreds or thousands of miles in diameter. And yet a deity is going to use it as a crystal ball or a wizard eye?
For example, Chislev, the planet, is named for Chislev the god. He has an avatar that retreats to the center of the planet to use it as a wizard eye. Not only is that a ridiculous concept, but it ignores how the wizard eye spell operates.
I'm sorry, but there is no way I can think this plausible. |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 08 Jul 2005 : 23:57:56
Well, no matter what, after work tonight, I am going to hope in my Smalljammer, make myself appear as a frothy mug of ale and cruise the stars trying to lure star dragons and draycon and even the neogi out there out so we could all get a beer and play some pool. Cuz that's what you do when you are a smalljammer!
C-Fb |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 08 Jul 2005 : 23:49:52
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly RupertOh, I think a planet was missing, too. If I remember correctly, the Adventures in Arcane Space boxed set mentioned a planet called Shinare in Krynnspace. But the Krynnspace supplement doesn't say a word about this planet.
They made it a moon of Zivilyn, so it is mentioned as a moon in Krynnspace. :)
Well, it's still ignoring something that came before. |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 08 Jul 2005 : 20:12:22
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Speaking of elemental planes...
In D&D, there's just the four elemental planes. But, if you look at the periodic table of elements, there's what, 116 elements? So where's the corresponding planes?
I want to be able to open a portal to the elemental plane of Cesium. I want to be able to go to the elemental plane of Argon. And I want to know what the abilities and stats of a Mendelevium elemental are!
Some months ago I asked a trivia question of a friend: The name of what real-world person, place or thing has contributed the greatest number of names for chemical elements? (Answer below.)
Answer: Ytterby, Sweden -- ytterbium, terbium, erbium, and yttrium. A fifth, gadolinium, is named for Professor Johan Gadolin, who discovered it in a rock sample from Ytterby. (http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Ytterby.html) If there are planes for each chemical element, what an amazing planar node this town must be!
I mention this by way of referencing the anthology Leviathan 4: Cities, in one of whose stories there is a sub-section entitled "Ytterbium." Some of the stories in the book will appeal to many sages, I think, specifically that one, Catherine Kasper's Encyclopedia of Ubar..
Apropos of kuje's (?) comment that the elemental planes are for the four Classical elements, I would point out that Classical China recognized five elements: water, earth, fire, metal, and wood. (See http://www.friesian.com/elements.htm for details. Go "up" to see a lot of fascinating stuff, including links to histories and dynastic tables for most major Eurasian countries.) Given that Kara-Tur is modeled after China, do mages from there recognize four or five elements, and if five, do they have access to five elemental planes, or four? If five, how do they explain the elemental plane of air? Also, if five, are "their" planes of wood and metal "real" planes, or places on the Prime which may be reached via spelljamming? |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 08 Jul 2005 : 19:12:03
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Under no circumstances should one buy The Astromundi Cluster (the fourth and final boxed set, and in my opinion, the death of the setting) or SJR7 Krynnspace (it has horrible stuff in there, and the author clearly had no familiarity with Dragonlance).
I have to disagree with that. Jean Rabe has had extensive connections with DL for many years, even before the dawning of the SJ setting.
While there were problems with the sourcebook itself with regard to Krynnish lore, there were also parts that worked well with the changes that were occuring on Krynn at the time the sourcebook was written.
I don't know... The part about the gods using the planets as scrying devices was ridiculous. And the statement that Krynn's moons are always equidistant ignores a major part of Krynnish lore.
Lastly, what the hey was she on when she created Little Biggnome? 
I don't have the Krynnspace supplement, but, based solely on this reference, I think the idea of deities using a planet to scry is "easier to believe" (given our knowledge of magical technologies) than believing that their hearing is so good that they can hear grass growing ten miles away or their mental prowess so vast that they can hear all of the conversations on a planet but filter out everything which doesn't include their names or a mention of their portfolio.
(An aside: if you are orchestrating a conspiracy against a god but don't mention the deity's name, is the deity ignorant of the plot?) |
| Kuje |
Posted - 08 Jul 2005 : 18:26:03
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly RupertOh, I think a planet was missing, too. If I remember correctly, the Adventures in Arcane Space boxed set mentioned a planet called Shinare in Krynnspace. But the Krynnspace supplement doesn't say a word about this planet.
They made it a moon of Zivilyn, so it is mentioned as a moon in Krynnspace. :) |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 08 Jul 2005 : 18:07:52
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Although, the "planets as scrying devices" aspect was actually relevant to a particular series of short stories published in two anthology collections. It should be noted however that Tracy Hickman said several years later that that particular plot aspect was "an aberration".
See, that's one thing that always bugged me about that setting. The short stories often don't have a thing to do with canon. And even in canon, there are still problems...
An example of each:
The short story "Hearth Cat, Winter Wren" (I think that was the name). Raistlin casts about 4 or 5 polymorph spells. But, this is before the Chronicles, when casting 2nd and 3rd level spells would wear him out!
In the Chronicles trilogy, it mentions that the Hammer of Kharas was needed to forge the first dragonlances, some 3000 years before during the Third Dragonwar. Yet we are told in the Legends trilogy that Kharas -- who lived after the Cataclym (possibly during; his age is never stated), forged the Hammer himself at Reorx's forge. So how'd he forge a hammer himself if it was used 3000 years before?
This kind of thing -- people not talking to each other or examining existing lore -- happens a lot in Dragginglance. And the Krynnspace supplement simply mirrored that trend.
Oh, I think a planet was missing, too. If I remember correctly, the Adventures in Arcane Space boxed set mentioned a planet called Shinare in Krynnspace. But the Krynnspace supplement doesn't say a word about this planet.
That's why I bought every supplement other than Greyspace, Realmspace and Krynnspace... I didn't want Spelljammer to ever touch the other worlds... it served to stymie creativeness.
My fiance and I have developed several crystal spheres with their own pantheons and worlds and schisms. I hate having environments all spelled out for me when the campaign is supposed to be limitless. Faerun is wonderful because it is one continent, but many adventure possiblities... but SJ turning to the standing campaign worlds just irked me. Oh well, rant over.
C-Fb
C-Fb |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 08 Jul 2005 : 17:20:25
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Although, the "planets as scrying devices" aspect was actually relevant to a particular series of short stories published in two anthology collections. It should be noted however that Tracy Hickman said several years later that that particular plot aspect was "an aberration".
See, that's one thing that always bugged me about that setting. The short stories often don't have a thing to do with canon. And even in canon, there are still problems...
An example of each:
The short story "Hearth Cat, Winter Wren" (I think that was the name). Raistlin casts about 4 or 5 polymorph spells. But, this is before the Chronicles, when casting 2nd and 3rd level spells would wear him out!
In the Chronicles trilogy, it mentions that the Hammer of Kharas was needed to forge the first dragonlances, some 3000 years before during the Third Dragonwar. Yet we are told in the Legends trilogy that Kharas -- who lived after the Cataclym (possibly during; his age is never stated), forged the Hammer himself at Reorx's forge. So how'd he forge a hammer himself if it was used 3000 years before?
This kind of thing -- people not talking to each other or examining existing lore -- happens a lot in Dragginglance. And the Krynnspace supplement simply mirrored that trend.
Oh, I think a planet was missing, too. If I remember correctly, the Adventures in Arcane Space boxed set mentioned a planet called Shinare in Krynnspace. But the Krynnspace supplement doesn't say a word about this planet. |
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 08 Jul 2005 : 16:52:13
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
Is Dragonstar by Fantasy Flight anything like Spelljammer? I remember thumbing through a friends book, and it seemed kinda similar, but I didn't delve too deeply into it. I know its uses the d20 system.
Not really... Dragonstar is more sci-fi applied to a fantasy setting. It keeps to real-world rules better than Spelljammer (infinite space, no crystal spheres, being unprotected in the vacuum of space is bad, etc), but it's still got a lot of fantasy stuff: magic, elves, humans, deities, dragons.
It's basically fantasy with the best elements of sci-fi thrown in on top. You can have your elven swordsman find an use a laser gun, then hop a spaceship, activate its starcaster, and teleport halfway across the galaxy -- where you then encounter a dragon.
Spelljammer, on the other hand, did incorporate space travel, but still kept it all based on fantasy.
I ignored Spelljammer in the days of 2E because I was suspicious of its implications. Eventually a spelljamming ship was bound to come across a technologically advanced civilization, which might be malevolent. What are Realmspace's protections against heavy blast machineguns, planetcracking bombs, and lasersword- (not lightsaber!) wielding psionic knights? For that matter, now that Call of Cthulhu is in D20 format, what are its protections against Great Old Ones and Greater Independent Races which can simply fly through space?
In my own campaign world I turned the question on its head by making the technologically advanced worlds unable to resist magic users who have taken to space. (How do you stop an enemy who can Teleport to your ship's bridge and then hurl Lightning at your ship's controls or strike its computer core from the Ethereal Plane?) That works only against centrally organized societies which are vulnerable to surgical strikes, or against those who discover a magical world with hostile intent. (Conquest becomes cost ineffective when the magical society sends a herald to the tech planet with significant bits of the attack flagship and informs the would-be conquerors that there's even more grief coming their way if they don't back off.) An attacker who can send waves of space fighter ships to carpet bomb the magical world would have a definite edge, though. How do magical +1 ballista bolts match up against a ship's force screen with 700 hit points? Not well, not well ... at ... all! |
| Xysma |
Posted - 08 Jul 2005 : 14:27:55
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
Is Dragonstar by Fantasy Flight anything like Spelljammer? I remember thumbing through a friends book, and it seemed kinda similar, but I didn't delve too deeply into it. I know its uses the d20 system.
Not really... Dragonstar is more sci-fi applied to a fantasy setting. It keeps to real-world rules better than Spelljammer (infinite space, no crystal spheres, being unprotected in the vacuum of space is bad, etc), but it's still got a lot of fantasy stuff: magic, elves, humans, deities, dragons.
It's basically fantasy with the best elements of sci-fi thrown in on top. You can have your elven swordsman find an use a laser gun, then hop a spaceship, activate its starcaster, and teleport halfway across the galaxy -- where you then encounter a dragon.
Spelljammer, on the other hand, did incorporate space travel, but still kept it all based on fantasy.
I see, thanks Wooly. I just vaguely remember Spelljammer, we never got into it. It sounds fun though. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 08 Jul 2005 : 14:07:41
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Under no circumstances should one buy The Astromundi Cluster (the fourth and final boxed set, and in my opinion, the death of the setting) or SJR7 Krynnspace (it has horrible stuff in there, and the author clearly had no familiarity with Dragonlance).
I have to disagree with that. Jean Rabe has had extensive connections with DL for many years, even before the dawning of the SJ setting.
While there were problems with the sourcebook itself with regard to Krynnish lore, there were also parts that worked well with the changes that were occuring on Krynn at the time the sourcebook was written.
I don't know... The part about the gods using the planets as scrying devices was ridiculous. And the statement that Krynn's moons are always equidistant ignores a major part of Krynnish lore.
Lastly, what the hey was she on when she created Little Biggnome?
Oh well, I'll agree with those.
Although, the "planets as scrying devices" aspect was actually relevant to a particular series of short stories published in two anthology collections. It should be noted however that Tracy Hickman said several years later that that particular plot aspect was "an aberration".
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 08 Jul 2005 : 11:35:29
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Under no circumstances should one buy The Astromundi Cluster (the fourth and final boxed set, and in my opinion, the death of the setting) or SJR7 Krynnspace (it has horrible stuff in there, and the author clearly had no familiarity with Dragonlance).
I have to disagree with that. Jean Rabe has had extensive connections with DL for many years, even before the dawning of the SJ setting.
While there were problems with the sourcebook itself with regard to Krynnish lore, there were also parts that worked well with the changes that were occuring on Krynn at the time the sourcebook was written.
I don't know... The part about the gods using the planets as scrying devices was ridiculous. And the statement that Krynn's moons are always equidistant ignores a major part of Krynnish lore.
Lastly, what the hey was she on when she created Little Biggnome? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 08 Jul 2005 : 06:14:23
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Under no circumstances should one buy The Astromundi Cluster (the fourth and final boxed set, and in my opinion, the death of the setting) or SJR7 Krynnspace (it has horrible stuff in there, and the author clearly had no familiarity with Dragonlance).
I have to disagree with that. Jean Rabe has had extensive connections with DL for many years, even before the dawning of the SJ setting.
While there were problems with the sourcebook itself with regard to Krynnish lore, there were also parts that worked well with the changes that were occuring on Krynn at the time the sourcebook was written.
quote:
I have to laugh, I went back and looked it up. That was Jean Rabe that wrote that, the driving force behind the fifth age books...
Yes, that is true. However, are you suggesting that there was something wrong with the early Fifth Age novels for DL?
|
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 08 Jul 2005 : 06:02:33
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Under no circumstances should one buy The Astromundi Cluster (the fourth and final boxed set, and in my opinion, the death of the setting) or SJR7 Krynnspace (it has horrible stuff in there, and the author clearly had no familiarity with Dragonlance).
I have to laugh, I went back and looked it up. That was Jean Rabe that wrote that, the driving force behind the fifth age books, and the only Realms author to give a naga arms! |
| The Sage |
Posted - 07 Jul 2005 : 01:45:19
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Another reference to Spelljammer not being dead in 3e is in the Book of Aberrations. Both the Neogi section (heavy SJ) and the Mind Flayer section refer to not only the possibility of SJ, but to the fact that that is how the Neogi get around.
C-Fb
The neogi section is rather disappointing in reference to Spelljammer, though... They took the most reviled race in known space and made them seem to be nothing more than just another monstrous race of groundlings. Sure, they mentioned the deathspiders and sailing the skies, but only in passing. I felt that it glossed over the neogi's extraterrestrial origins; why mention such a thing in a fantasy setting and then not explore it?
That's true. I was disappointed with the way the neogi were presented in LoM myself... although I think I've already stated that.
Anyway, the completely "alien" nature of the neogi was stripped away in order to make them something that they should really be not -- and that is, a generic race.
The neogi in SJ always represented that "vile and strange alien race from beyond the stars" theme... and that was what made them special. Most of that theme doesn't even hold true for the way the neogi were presented in LoM.
quote:
Further, if they do have these ships for sailing the sky, why are they wandering around on the ground?
Indeed. The neogi forged their slave empire among the stars, and that is where they belong.
|
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 07 Jul 2005 : 00:03:31
I totally agree Wooly... My fiance (only 9 days until my wife) loves SJ and got me all involved in it. I have spent many a campaign in the Phlogiston for all its worth and I agree with you about the Neogi. They have been the bane of many of my characters' existance. And let's be serious, the Deathspiders are cool.
Oh well, SJ will always be around in our hearts!
C-Fb |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 06 Jul 2005 : 22:53:02
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Another reference to Spelljammer not being dead in 3e is in the Book of Aberrations. Both the Neogi section (heavy SJ) and the Mind Flayer section refer to not only the possibility of SJ, but to the fact that that is how the Neogi get around.
C-Fb
The neogi section is rather disappointing in reference to Spelljammer, though... They took the most reviled race in known space and made them seem to be nothing more than just another monstrous race of groundlings. Sure, they mentioned the deathspiders and sailing the skies, but only in passing. I felt that it glossed over the neogi's extraterrestrial origins; why mention such a thing in a fantasy setting and then not explore it?
Further, if they do have these ships for sailing the sky, why are they wandering around on the ground?
I was hoping for more than just an obligatory and cursory nod to the Spelljammer setting.  |
| Crennen FaerieBane |
Posted - 06 Jul 2005 : 21:52:53
Another reference to Spelljammer not being dead in 3e is in the Book of Aberrations. Both the Neogi section (heavy SJ) and the Mind Flayer section refer to not only the possibility of SJ, but to the fact that that is how the Neogi get around.
C-Fb |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 06 Jul 2005 : 03:56:28
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Wooly already covered the basic details, so I won't bother.
However I will add that, if the setting had been progressively supported by FFG from the very beginning, the underlyinf fantasy-space elements running through the background of the setting of Dragonstar could have one day seen it occupy the place that SJ once held.
'Tis true. Though I had a couple of problems with the basic set-up, I thought the setting had a lot of potential. It could have been a lot more than it became. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 06 Jul 2005 : 03:52:02
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Speaking of elemental planes...
In D&D, there's just the four elemental planes. But, if you look at the periodic table of elements, there's what, 116 elements? So where's the corresponding planes?
Well they thing is, they are based on the greek elements of earth, air, fire, and water. :) SOOOOO there wouldn't be elements for the periodic table.
Indeed. And the para-elemental planes are merely combinations of the prime four elements. The application of either the positive or negative energy planes to a particular prime element generate the quasi-planes.
Although, if you start borrowing ideas from the 'Urban Planescape Project', then Wooly's assumption about elemental planes being based on the Periodic Table of the Elements becomes a reality.
I knew that they were going with the classic concept of elements. 'Twas just a fun thought that occurred to me recently, and I'd been waiting for a chance to use it.  |
|
|
