| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Senbar Flay |
Posted - 29 Jun 2005 : 00:19:58
Greetings!
Reading the scroll about Troy Denning reminded me of Tilverton and I have to ask. Did the destruction of Tilverton actually effect anything its one town in Cormyr and seems to me wouldnt have much of an impact. Also do they know what destroyed it yet and was it a random act of destruction or is there some plot behind it all? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| lowtech |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 21:11:37
quote:
Originally posted by Sian
World War 11 ? ... don't you mean World War 2 ( II )
*g*
Yeah, I always make that mistake
|
| Sian |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 16:06:42
World War 11 ? ... don't you mean World War 2 ( II )
*g* |
| lowtech |
Posted - 19 Aug 2007 : 14:27:20
quote:
Originally posted by tauster
perhaps there´s another aspect that should be considered when trying to appraise cormyrean mentality about tilverton:
tilverton is (compared with cormyrs ancient history) a very young "acquisition"; it was occupied only a few years ago. before that, iirc (don´t have fr adventures in front of me), it was just a muddy village of sheperds, a small market town with not even a number of stone buildings worth mentioning.
then, cormyr takes over and builds a city wall, new streets, declares that new houses have to be built with stone, establishes a proper administration, city guards and so on. and after a few years, the former town of cattle-breeders develops into a real city.
i imagine cormyreans must have been very proud of that accomplishment ("look what we´ve done: in only a blink of an eye, we´ve grown this muddy place into a proper town!"). i think to most cormyreans, tilverton is an example of how capable their country is.
a few long sighted people (nobles, war wizards, merchants, purple dragon commanders...) might see it as the first step to extending true authority over the stonelands, and even as a lure to entice the near dales into joining the forest kingdom or as a bridgehead for future military advanced into that dales.
in short: tilverton could be far from being "this distant spot somewhere on our border".
I agree, Tilverton was the Cormyrean frontier, the symbol of increased greatness in the future and a gateway towards national ambitions in the Stonelands and the Dalelands. Also, tilverton was not only destroyed, but a substantial area in a highly strategic location was rendered permenantly unsuitable for human habitation (and therefore expansion). Cormyr's future ambitions are now contained by imposing geographical barriars on all sides (Sembia would constitute an imposing-and potentially threatening-political barriar). All of this has happened after a prolonged period of national trauma which was itself preceded by decades of optimism, power, and progress. Finally, the Shadovar still constitute an existential threat to a diminished Cormyr. Look at Western Europe after World War 11, and you'll get a good idea about the extent of damage done to Cormyr by the destruction and magical contamination of Tilverton. |
| JessiWolf |
Posted - 14 Jul 2007 : 05:31:23
Does anyone know if Tilverton was formally absorbed into the nation of Cormyr before or after Azoun's death, being that both events took place in 1371. |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 03:58:37
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Actually, the light from the orb burned them into like ashes outright. Read pg. 325 of The Siege. It talks about how the light stabs through the Shades' chest and then turn them into nothing but dissolving black smoke.
Perhaps.....my mistake it seems. It appears that the shades light control abilities aren't that good after all. |
| DDH_101 |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 03:52:13
Actually, the light from the orb burned them into like ashes outright. Read pg. 325 of The Siege. It talks about how the light stabs through the Shades' chest and then turn them into nothing but dissolving black smoke. |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 02:57:33
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
quote:
Originally posted by Senbar Flay
So how exactly did Tilverton get destroyed id they just sack it did some magical explosion consume it completely. As for an effect you think Tilvertons destruction could weaken cormyrs hold on the Storm Horns since it is already full of evil humanoids. Speaking of humanoids did Comryr manage to get that orc horde under control.
Tilverton got destoryed because a reaction between powerful Weave and Shadow Weave magic. Vangerdahast had created a "light orb" artifact that would destory the Shades instantly with its rays and was using it in the battle in Tilverton. However, then one of the Princes of Shade unleased powerful shadow magic on it that caused deadly shadows to expand and consume all of Tilverton.
I think the light orb did not really destroy the shades but instead robs them of their shadow abilities like prevent them from entering the shadows again and kind of "paralyzes" them. |
| DDH_101 |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 02:55:03
quote:
Originally posted by Senbar Flay
So how exactly did Tilverton get destroyed id they just sack it did some magical explosion consume it completely. As for an effect you think Tilvertons destruction could weaken cormyrs hold on the Storm Horns since it is already full of evil humanoids. Speaking of humanoids did Comryr manage to get that orc horde under control.
Tilverton got destoryed because a reaction between powerful Weave and Shadow Weave magic. Vangerdahast had created a "light orb" artifact that would destory the Shades instantly with its rays and was using it in the battle in Tilverton. However, then one of the Princes of Shade unleased powerful shadow magic on it that caused deadly shadows to expand and consume all of Tilverton. |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 02:44:10
quote:
orignally posted by Sembar Flay
As for an effect you think Tilvertons destruction could weaken cormyrs hold on the Storm Horns since it is already full of evil humanoids.
I think Cormyr miltary lost a strategic point for launching assaults against the humanoids. |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 02:42:38
I think not but the Purple Dragons at least prevented them from raiding into the deeper Cormyrean lands. |
| Senbar Flay |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 02:07:02
So how exactly did Tilverton get destroyed id they just sack it did some magical explosion consume it completely. As for an effect you think Tilvertons destruction could weaken cormyrs hold on the Storm Horns since it is already full of evil humanoids. Speaking of humanoids did Comryr manage to get that orc horde under control. |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 02 Jul 2005 : 05:55:30
Yes, but he didn't want to take over the Dales, if he had, he'd have used the Zhentarim approach. He wanted them to join, because, as has been said before in this thread - Azoun felt they'd be better off as a part of Cormyr. But, and this is the important part, he only wanted them to join voluntarily. |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 02 Jul 2005 : 01:02:54
Actually King Azoun IV thinks that the Dales would be better governed and benefit from a strong government like Cormyr present government, so because of this view by King Azoun IV, many folk are leery of the king's desire to unite the Heartlands under one rule, that is his rule. |
| Kajehase |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 19:36:56
He didn't, he wanted the Dales to join Cormyr, which mya sound similar, but is a very different thing altogether. |
| khorne |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 17:54:35
quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
quote:
Originally posted by tauster
perhaps there´s another aspect that should be considered when trying to appraise cormyrean mentality about tilverton:
tilverton is (compared with cormyrs ancient history) a very young "acquisition"; it was occupied only a few years ago. before that, iirc (don´t have fr adventures in front of me), it was just a muddy village of sheperds, a small market town with not even a number of stone buildings worth mentioning.
then, cormyr takes over and builds a city wall, new streets, declares that new houses have to be built with stone, establishes a proper administration, city guards and so on. and after a few years, the former town of cattle-breeders develops into a real city.
i imagine cormyreans must have been very proud of that accomplishment ("look what we´ve done: in only a blink of an eye, we´ve grown this muddy place into a proper town!"). i think to most cormyreans, tilverton is an example of how capable their country is.
a few long sighted people (nobles, war wizards, merchants, purple dragon commanders...) might see it as the first step to extending true authority over the stonelands, and even as a lure to entice the near dales into joining the forest kingdom or as a bridgehead for future military advanced into that dales.
in short: tilverton could be far from being "this distant spot somewhere on our border".
Isn't this King Azoun IV vision of the future of Cormyr?
So Azoun IV wanted to take over the dales? My respect for him just vanished. |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 09:30:57
quote:
Originally posted by tauster
perhaps there´s another aspect that should be considered when trying to appraise cormyrean mentality about tilverton:
tilverton is (compared with cormyrs ancient history) a very young "acquisition"; it was occupied only a few years ago. before that, iirc (don´t have fr adventures in front of me), it was just a muddy village of sheperds, a small market town with not even a number of stone buildings worth mentioning.
then, cormyr takes over and builds a city wall, new streets, declares that new houses have to be built with stone, establishes a proper administration, city guards and so on. and after a few years, the former town of cattle-breeders develops into a real city.
i imagine cormyreans must have been very proud of that accomplishment ("look what we´ve done: in only a blink of an eye, we´ve grown this muddy place into a proper town!"). i think to most cormyreans, tilverton is an example of how capable their country is.
a few long sighted people (nobles, war wizards, merchants, purple dragon commanders...) might see it as the first step to extending true authority over the stonelands, and even as a lure to entice the near dales into joining the forest kingdom or as a bridgehead for future military advanced into that dales.
in short: tilverton could be far from being "this distant spot somewhere on our border".
Isn't this King Azoun IV vision of the future of Cormyr? |
| tauster |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 09:26:24
perhaps there´s another aspect that should be considered when trying to appraise cormyrean mentality about tilverton:
tilverton is (compared with cormyrs ancient history) a very young "acquisition"; it was occupied only a few years ago. before that, iirc (don´t have fr adventures in front of me), it was just a muddy village of sheperds, a small market town with not even a number of stone buildings worth mentioning.
then, cormyr takes over and builds a city wall, new streets, declares that new houses have to be built with stone, establishes a proper administration, city guards and so on. and after a few years, the former town of cattle-breeders develops into a real city.
i imagine cormyreans must have been very proud of that accomplishment ("look what we´ve done: in only a blink of an eye, we´ve grown this muddy place into a proper town!"). i think to most cormyreans, tilverton is an example of how capable their country is.
a few long sighted people (nobles, war wizards, merchants, purple dragon commanders...) might see it as the first step to extending true authority over the stonelands, and even as a lure to entice the near dales into joining the forest kingdom or as a bridgehead for future military advanced into that dales.
in short: tilverton could be far from being "this distant spot somewhere on our border". |
| DDH_101 |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 07:26:28
quote:
Originally posted by Carion Hunter
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
I agree with Forge.
Also, even if Tilverton isn't that "important" to Cormyr and the rest of the Realms, surely an army of Purple Dragons and 10000 Heartland Alliance mercenaries fighting against the Shade Enclave should draw more than enough attention.
Pardon my asking, I know the Shadovar has at least a 3000 strong military but it seemed unlikely that they would sent all 3000 to fight at Tilverton. So how many Shadovar troops were present in Tilverton at that time of the battle?
I don't think the army that the Shadovar sent was too large, as their main goal was to capture Galaeron and just disrupt the Heartland Alliance. They were using a stealthy approach and using the shadows to their advantage. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 03:57:18
As a belated response to Wooly's coment, if Marsember had been "nuked" the crown might have considered it a mixed blessing, lol.
As far as the force that the Shadovar sent, do we know that the entire force was actual Shades, or did they use some of their slave forces? I can't remember much except for Vangey and Galeron fighting Rivalen and the "matter/anti-matter moment" with the weave light artifact. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 03:02:36
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
My point is that people tend to be less concerned with major events when the event doesn't happen anywhere near them, and/or when they aren't directly affected.
Are Cormyreans going to care that a Cormyrean town got nuked? Yes, they are. But are they going to care as much as they would if Marsember got nuked? No, not by a long shot. Tilverton is distant, and not overly important to the kingdom. Thus, their reaction to its loss will be muted.
I think that the loss of a bunch of Purple Dragons would have more of an impact than the loss of the town. Not everyone knows someone from Tilverton, but everyone knows a Purple Dragon or several.
All good points.
As an additional consideration though, I'd just like to add the factor of communication in a "fantasy" kingdom. No doubt by the time most of the people in Cormyr heard about the destruction of Tilverton, the event itself had already occured several days before. So while some people may be initially shocked by the disaster, distant, as well as time, work hand in hand to lessen the "overall" scale and impact of the devastation.
Naturally this trend would also be influenced by how far a region in Cormyr is from Tilverton. Towns and cities immediately surrounding what was once Tilverton will have heard about, or even seen it occur, the attack just after it had happened -- thus, their feelings and opinions on the matter will be strong indeed.
In comparison, Cormyrean assets in the Storm Horns probably offer nothing more than a passing prayer for the souls of those innocents caught in the attack on Tilverton. It is not they these Cormyreans don't care or empathise with the poor inhabitants of Tilverton, it is rather that the Cormyreans active in the Storm Horns have other more immediate things on their minds that must concern them. For example, Zhentish aggression from Darkhold and/or monstrous creatures filtering through the region looking to lay waste to the Forest Kingdom's assest in the Storm Horns.
|
| Carion Hunter |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 01:43:33
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
I agree with Forge.
Also, even if Tilverton isn't that "important" to Cormyr and the rest of the Realms, surely an army of Purple Dragons and 10000 Heartland Alliance mercenaries fighting against the Shade Enclave should draw more than enough attention.
Pardon my asking, I know the Shadovar has at least a 3000 strong military but it seemed unlikely that they would sent all 3000 to fight at Tilverton. So how many Shadovar troops were present in Tilverton at that time of the battle? |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 01:39:16
quote:
Originally posted by Forge
Well folks, if you recall, the fall of Tilverton was one of several factors that I mentioned that would shake up Cormyr and cause them to withdraw to recoup and regroup.
Honestly though, Tilverton is NOT that far from Cormyr, and is about the same distance from Shadowdale as from Suzail. To boot it's a strong vantage point to hold for any force hoping to assault into the Anauroch, a last bastion of resupply. It's also a good likely trade route between The Dales and Cormyr, the 2 strongest forces opposing Shade at that point. (Or at least the most prominent threats.)
So Tilverton as a strategic point is lost...well, smart move by the Shadovar to eliminate a strategic threat. So I guess any new assaults against the Shadovar must be conducted through the Dalelands. But still, Anauorch is as treacherous as the Shadovar with many hidden threats as well besides the Shadovar, this I am sure the Shadovar are aware of the threats beneath and on the sands of Anauroch. |
| Forge |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 01:27:58
Well folks, if you recall, the fall of Tilverton was one of several factors that I mentioned that would shake up Cormyr and cause them to withdraw to recoup and regroup.
Honestly though, Tilverton is NOT that far from Cormyr, and is about the same distance from Shadowdale as from Suzail. To boot it's a strong vantage point to hold for any force hoping to assault into the Anauroch, a last bastion of resupply. It's also a good likely trade route between The Dales and Cormyr, the 2 strongest forces opposing Shade at that point. (Or at least the most prominent threats.) |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 01:21:11
Unless Suzail, Capital City of Cormyr happened to be "Tilverton" which will likely demoralize the whole country and plunge the Kingdom into a power vacuum, I don't think the Cormyreans are likely to be so hard hit by the loss of Tilverton. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 00:14:25
My point is that people tend to be less concerned with major events when the event doesn't happen anywhere near them, and/or when they aren't directly affected.
Are Cormyreans going to care that a Cormyrean town got nuked? Yes, they are. But are they going to care as much as they would if Marsember got nuked? No, not by a long shot. Tilverton is distant, and not overly important to the kingdom. Thus, their reaction to its loss will be muted.
I think that the loss of a bunch of Purple Dragons would have more of an impact than the loss of the town. Not everyone knows someone from Tilverton, but everyone knows a Purple Dragon or several. |
| khorne |
Posted - 30 Jun 2005 : 18:22:38
In a country where there aren`t many big cities(like Cormyr) it sure as hell has a lot of effect. Here in Finland for example we don`t have many cities with large populations, so if for example Rovaniemi or Vasa were to be wiped off the map it would be a really hard blow. |
| DDH_101 |
Posted - 30 Jun 2005 : 17:29:56
I agree with Forge.
Also, even if Tilverton isn't that "important" to Cormyr and the rest of the Realms, surely an army of Purple Dragons and 10000 Heartland Alliance mercenaries fighting against the Shade Enclave should draw more than enough attention. |
| Forge |
Posted - 30 Jun 2005 : 14:56:02
Esteemed Scholar of the family Rodentia,
I understand that perhaps Cormyr as a whole is perhaps somewhat lackluster in it's care for Tilverton. But consider this, if someone obliterated a major city in another nation, or even a border town in your own country, don't you think there would be a hue and cry?
The whole frigging city *poof* gone. This means revised trade routes, revised logistics for the armed forces in the field. This means revised harvests and revinues as well as loss of the levies from the town for the Kingdom. This means that whatever goods produced by that area/town are going to be priced more dear as they will be in shorter supply.
|
| The Sage |
Posted - 30 Jun 2005 : 02:25:22
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't (wasn't) Tilverton considered by most Cormyreans to be something like a distant holding -- kinda like the US and Guam? As I recall, Tilverton is too recent an acquisition and too distant a holding to be part of what Cormyreans think of when they think of their kingdom.
At the time of printing of the 2e setting, Tilverton is still mentioned as being a recent Cormyrean "acquisition". It was partly the reason why the Dalelands at the time were growing suspicious of Azoun's intentions for the region.
And as I recall, Tilverton isn't even mentioned in the Old Grey Box.
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 30 Jun 2005 : 00:09:16
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
I apologize everyone.. screwy computer!
C-Fb
The rightmost icon above your post, the one with the small trash can -- you can use this to delete posts.  |
|
|
