| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| TymoraChosen |
Posted - 09 Jun 2005 : 10:59:48
Hello everyone, I have been doing some research on elven high magic and the high magic rituals as well as the elven High Magic Mythal, is there any information about the rituals of High Magic or about the High Magic Mythal?
Also, I heard that the High Moor on Faerun was created by destructive elven high magics, am I right? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Beirnadri Magranth |
Posted - 16 Jan 2006 : 06:33:03
since my last post i have become an expert on the topic ! lol |
| The Sage |
Posted - 27 Dec 2005 : 02:29:47
quote:
Originally posted by Beirnadri Magranth
quote:
Originally posted by Sandhrune
The Nether Scrolls were created by the ancient creator race, the Sarrukh. The Nether Scrolls were originally call the Golden Skins of the World Serpent and penned by a group of the Sarrukh called the Ba'etith. The scrolls were then conviniently left for the Netherese to find by the Sarrukh called Arthindol, known to the Netherese as the Terraseer, a lich ruler of Oreme.
where is this information in canon material???????
THats incredible   
Also, if you perform a search through the archives here at Candlekeep, you'll find several scrolls already set aside for discussions about the sarrukh and Nether Scrolls.
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 26 Dec 2005 : 18:59:06
'Tis indeed in Serpent Kingdoms.  |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 26 Dec 2005 : 18:56:23
I think that may have been in Serpent Kingdoms. |
| Beirnadri Magranth |
Posted - 26 Dec 2005 : 18:25:02
quote:
Originally posted by Sandhrune
The Nether Scrolls were created by the ancient creator race, the Sarrukh. The Nether Scrolls were originally call the Golden Skins of the World Serpent and penned by a group of the Sarrukh called the Ba'etith. The scrolls were then conviniently left for the Netherese to find by the Sarrukh called Arthindol, known to the Netherese as the Terraseer, a lich ruler of Oreme.
where is this information in canon material???????
THats incredible |
| The Sage |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 03:19:54
Thanks Kuje  . I remember now... I got my references all mixed up  .
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I think a large factor in mythal decay isn't as much the origin of the mythal, as it is what happens within the mythal. Myth Drannor's mythal is decaying, as has been pointed out. However, that mythal has seen the deaths of countless residents, warfare against very evil foes, incursions from the lower planes...
Mythals are designed, in part, to foster life. Events that run counter to that are liable to upset the fabric of the mythal.
That's a good point.
The intimate connection that the mythal shares with the life energy within it has the potential to cause a degradation within the very mythal itself if the energy it draws upon is disrupted.
So in essence all mythals, whether true or wizardly, decay -- or rather, have the potential to degrade. So aside from their actual origins, a major factor in the consideration of that decay, is the life energy used to raise them.
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| Kuje |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 02:54:17
quote:
Originally posted by The SageI always assumed that both were subject to decay. However true mythals degraded at a significantly slower rate compared to those created by wizards because wizardly mythals were not considered "fully functioning". After all, Myth Drannor's mythal is described as a true mythal and it has degraded dramatically in only 600 or so years.
Myth Drannor's is a wizardy mythal, so says page 142 of Cormanthyr. Evereska's is a true mythal. There is a difference.
And Cormanthyr explains the break down: Wizardy one's fail because the magic fails. High Magic one's, I.E. true mythals, fail less so because they draw from nature. They only break down if nature becomes despoiled otherwise they last forever unlike wizardy ones. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 02:48:24
I think a large factor in mythal decay isn't as much the origin of the mythal, as it is what happens within the mythal. Myth Drannor's mythal is decaying, as has been pointed out. However, that mythal has seen the deaths of countless residents, warfare against very evil foes, incursions from the lower planes...
Mythals are designed, in part, to foster life. Events that run counter to that are liable to upset the fabric of the mythal. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 02:31:04
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Fletcher
On a side note, I always wondered why the elven mythals were subject to decay and corruption, yet the human mythals were not. Any ideas?
I thought that true mythals were not subject to decay but wizardy one's were. :)
I always assumed that both were subject to decay. However true mythals degraded at a significantly slower rate compared to those created by wizards because wizardly mythals were not considered "fully functioning". After all, Myth Drannor's mythal is described as a true mythal and it has degraded dramatically in only 600 or so years.
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| Kuje |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 02:12:08
quote:
Originally posted by Fletcher
On a side note, I always wondered why the elven mythals were subject to decay and corruption, yet the human mythals were not. Any ideas?
I thought that true mythals were not subject to decay but wizardy one's were. :) |
| Vangelor |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 00:52:52
Human mythals are as well... They simply have not had as long to go bad, or been subject to the accumulated stresses of the years.
The First Flowering of the Elves was a long, long time ago. By comparison, Cormyr was founded just yesterday. The human kingdoms where such effects are employed (surely Thay is capable of arranging something of this sort through Circle Magic) are simply not old enough for their standing wards to have stood the test of time.
Or so I suppose. |
| Fletcher |
Posted - 27 Jun 2005 : 16:04:35
On a side note, I always wondered why the elven mythals were subject to decay and corruption, yet the human mythals were not. Any ideas? |
| Vangelor |
Posted - 27 Jun 2005 : 14:58:53
Well, here is a question. It seems that there are still some Elven High Mages, and yet it is said that after the Fall of Netheril, Mystra changed the rules of access to the Weave to prevent spells of that magnitude from being used in the future.
And on the other hand, the Wards of Silverymoon are to all intents and purposes a Mythal (details in The Silver Marches) although it is more often called a "near Mythal" - the distinction principally seeming to be that it was not made by Elven High Mages.
I imagine that as much of High Magic as still works - and the extent to which it works - is known only to those elves who hold the secrets. And if they were that willing to use it, Evereska's Mythal would likely be repaired (if it can be repaired) rather than flickering disconcertingly and causing constant, misty rainfall.
So I think that there are some feats that modern practicioners cannot duplicate (another Dark Disaster or Sundering is unlikely) ... Unless some unscrupulous, demented and very gifted worker of the Shadow Weave should develop these methods, because the sort of safeguards which Mystra would impose seem likely to be precisely the sort that it would amuse Shar to omit. |
| Shadovar |
Posted - 14 Jun 2005 : 11:01:04
quote:
Originally posted by Phaerimm Bane
Ahem, can I know what is High Magic in elven means? How is it that the High Mages are not that willing to teach non-elves though some non-elves have good chaacteristics and the calibre to learn such arts?
The answer to your first question is:
High Magic to the elves means Arselu’Tel’Quess or so called Great Art of the People.
The answer to your second question is:
For some security reasons, they are never that willing to teach non-elves as I think has to do with the rise of netheril's arcanists and the disaster wrought by Netheril's arcanists. |
| Phaerimm Bane |
Posted - 14 Jun 2005 : 10:53:42
Ahem, can I know what is High Magic in elven means? How is it that the High Mages are not that willing to teach non-elves though some non-elves have good chaacteristics and the calibre to learn such arts? |
| Adarin |
Posted - 14 Jun 2005 : 10:50:15
quote:
Originally posted by StromLancer
I have some questions here:
1) Are the high mages identities publicaly known to all elves or at least the elven monarchies?
2) Are the high mages always a mage, can they be of other classes yet also a high mage?
3) What purposes does the elven high mages serve?
For the answer to the third question
3) They are to use High Magic to aid elves in such ways as extending their lives creating tree-dwellings, crystalline towers, and other homes for the People, raising morale in battle and demoralizing the enemy, and summoning allies from outer planes and they are also the ones who carry out the punishment of the worst of elvenkind by transforming them into dark elves, known to elves as dhaeraow and to humans and non-elves as "drow".
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| Shadovar |
Posted - 14 Jun 2005 : 10:44:17
quote:
Originally posted by StromLancer
I have some questions here:
1) Are the high mages identities publicaly known to all elves or at least the elven monarchies?
2) Are the high mages always a mage, can they be of other classes yet also a high mage?
3) What purposes does the elven high mages serve?
To answer the first question: Well, I think all high mages keep their identities a secret, if it is made known, I think asassination of the high mages would be the order of the day. There are some rumors that only the Cor’Selu’taar, or Grand Mage has a known identity and some say the oldest elf among the High Mages.
2) Not always, I think they may be of other classes as well. |
| StromLancer |
Posted - 14 Jun 2005 : 10:40:09
I have some questions here:
1) Are the high mages identities publicaly known to all elves or at least the elven monarchies?
2) Are the high mages always a mage, can they be of other classes yet also a high mage?
3) What purposes does the elven high mages serve? |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 12 Jun 2005 : 18:33:25
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
How's that for a backpedal and rationalization?
OK, if that is how you want it or now correctly recall it *wink* |
| Steven Schend |
Posted - 12 Jun 2005 : 18:15:10
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
'Tis a retcon. Newer lore trumps older lore.
My bad. See why I rely so much on Eric and George for the lore stuff?
Forgot about the elder origins of the Nether Scrolls; where the short circuit in my brain was this--The Netherese discovered what is now always known as the Nether Scrolls in the ruins of Aryvandaar. I guess I'll retcon myself and suggest that what the Vyshanti corrupt high mages worked with for high mages were cheat sheets that were far less comprehensive than what one might've learned from High Mages of Miyeritar.
How's that for a backpedal and rationalization? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 12 Jun 2005 : 03:25:58
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I guess that would mean that the Weave and the Shadow Weave are two different programming languagues?
Actually, I've had a similar discussion before, at work surprisingly with the only co-worker I know who also campaigns in the Realms.
We jokingly postulated that C++ represents the Weave... deceptively simple and elegant, yet infinitely complex. Visual C on the other hand is the copy, originally meant to fill in the gaps of the original, but instead created an entirely new framework for programming err... spellcasting  .
No, wait... .
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| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 12 Jun 2005 : 03:06:58
I feel a Matrix moment coming on... |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 12 Jun 2005 : 02:50:49
Yeah, the more I got into computers (my fiance and her son are the real computer archmagi) the more I noticed the similarities between programs and spells. I guess that would mean that the Weave and the Shadow Weave are two different programming languagues? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 12 Jun 2005 : 02:37:50
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
(Funny how programming and spellcasting just begs to use the same parlance . . . )
I'm glad another scribe besides Edain Shadowstar and myself have finally noticed that  .
I know that every time I implement a new algorithm or sub-routine, it always feels like I'm learning an incantation and then "casting" it to alter the substance of reality (in this case, the program itself [written in code] represents the reality being altered).
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| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 11 Jun 2005 : 20:05:45
Elven High Magic seems to be one of those things that the rules have now tried to quantify quickly as epic level magic that elves can cast that is cheaper and easier for them if they take the Elven High Mage prestige class. I was thinking that I would like for it to have more texture, and this is what it got me to thinking of.
First off, once an elf is a High Mage, I think that there might be spells on his spell list that are lower level, not just epic level spells, that are now added to his list. In other words, there are special 1-9th level spells that other spellcasters, even elves, don't get to use unless they have trained as a High Mage.
Secondly, I think that if you are using the Incatations optional rule from Unearthed Arcana, High Mages might train innitiates in all sorts of special Incatations that no one has any idea exist, and ones that may only work for those of elven blood or those who have learned ancient elven songs and stories.
And tying those two in with what Steven said, yes, a High Mage could teach the new 1-9th level spells to other workers of the Art, or show others how the Incantaions worked, but they wouldn't do so, and if someone just found a spellbook with the spells or proceedures in them and didn't know the "workarounds" for those not of elven blood . . . well it wouldn't be pretty.
(Funny how programming and spellcasting just begs to use the same parlance . . . ) |
| The Sage |
Posted - 11 Jun 2005 : 02:39:02
Magic of Faerun discusses mythals in general, as well as detailing some aspects of specific mythals around the Realms.
Ruins of Myth Drannor is the best source for information on the mythal for that region. Cormanthyr: Empire of Elves and Fall of Myth Drannor also contain some lore on mythals, and both are available for free download at the WotC website.
D&D Downloads at WotC:- http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads
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| StromLancer |
Posted - 11 Jun 2005 : 02:26:45
Perhaps Its time to talk about the High Magic Mythals, lets see...is there information about the Mythals or otherwise called the Mantle of the Weave? Used in Myth Drannor and Evereska? |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 11 Jun 2005 : 01:30:19
Indeed my Wooly friend . . . if I remember correctly back then they I THINK (I don't have it with me at the moment) that FR5 implied that there were ONLY three creator races.
But I could be wrong (though I did commit much of that tome to memory, as it was my second favorite at the time, right behind FR1 Waterdeep and the North). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Jun 2005 : 01:14:05
'Tis a retcon. Newer lore trumps older lore. |
| KnightErrantJR |
Posted - 11 Jun 2005 : 01:13:55
The first reference I remember to the Nether Scrolls was in FR5 Savage Frontier, which is also the first time that the "Creator Races" were mentioned, though they were not named, just described (i.e. lizard focused creator race, amphibian creator race, avian creator race). |
